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Official OPPO BDP-103/BDP-105 Anticipation Thread - Page 40

post #1171 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

One more (for now wink.gif ). I was just reading the manual and noticed the split HDMI option, meaning Video only out of HDMI 1 and Audio only out of HDMI 2. They claim to use this for the best possible PQ and AQ, as Sony and Panasonic have stated as well. The argument Ive seen is they arent truly separated and this does nothing for performance.

Im just wondering if anyone has any tech insight to what this actually achieves, if anything?

See if the FAQ has anything useful: How does Dual HDMI Output work?

-Bill
post #1172 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

One more (for now wink.gif ). I was just reading the manual and noticed the split HDMI option, meaning Video only out of HDMI 1 and Audio only out of HDMI 2. They claim to use this for the best possible PQ and AQ, as Sony and Panasonic have stated as well. The argument Ive seen is they arent truly separated and this does nothing for performance.

Im just wondering if anyone has any tech insight to what this actually achieves, if anything?

It's not a question of quality, in the sense of somehow keeping audio from corrupting video or vice versa, as that sort of imagined corruption simply doesn't happen.

Rather it allows the handshake on the two outputs to concentrate on the two different goals. The HDMI 1 handshake can concentrate on sending the best video (without regard to the limitations of whatever HDMI 2 is connected to), and meanwhile the HDMI 2 handshake can concentrate on sending the best audio (without regard to the limitations of whatever HDMI 1 is connected to).
--Bob
post #1173 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

With regards to the HDMI IN and Noise Reduction, etc..., can you tweak those as necessary and it actually only apply to the HDMI IN? Meaning, when I throw in a Blu-ray, will it have a second feature set automatically, or will I have to change between the presets for pic settings?
Just thinking with a satellite HD feed, the Marvell NR tweaks may be helpful, but of course I want them off on Blu-ray.
Also, if I set the 103 up with a logitech, and it is powered off on the HDMI input, will it stay there for the next time it's powered up? Just thinking WAF, if I run satellite feed thru it. I would want it to shutdown outputting from HDMI IN, and start back up there without the wife having to do anything.
Can't wait to get this thing early next week, but gonna be some trial and error getting both satellite and blu-ray to work the way I need, with the logitech remote thrown in.

Excellent questions smile.gif. I will be looking at doing the same with the 103 and my Harmony as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

The player will always and only power up in its "Blu-ray Player" configuration. You will need to select whichever HDMI Input you want to view AFTER the player powers up.
Settings are not remembered per input. You have to select settings manually.
For the Picture Adjustment settings (such as Noise Reduction), there's a Mode line which lets you select between 3 sets of Picture Adjustments you arrange for yourself.
In addition, there's a shortcut to get into that menu. Press and hold the Setup button long enough and Picture Adjustment comes up. Select which Output you want to adjust (HDMI 1 or HDMI 2) and the settings list will show with that Mode line preselected. So you can Left/Right Arrow to the Mode 1, 2, or 3 you want to use and then press Setup again to exit.
--Bob

Bob,

Thanks for answering this as well smile.gif. Having multiple sets of picture adjustments is just another incredible design option by Oppo.

Bill
post #1174 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Let's try to nip this in the bud folks. Cinavia debates have too much potential to side track this thread (notwithstanding its awesome, avalanche-like momentum at the moment). I'm not exactly sure where the right place is to debate Cinavia, but let's agree it isn't in here.
--Bob

You are right! I apologize for asking this in the first place.

I was just curious. I either rent or buy my movies and only download what I can't find locally, ie: non north american media, usually shows not available here. If after renting a movie that I want to keep, I purchase them. I use to backup DVD's but since OPPO (opposed to my older player's) is able to better play damaged disks I see no need for this anymore. Also, since BD's provide a better HD experience, backing up (to disk) can reduce the quality, so again why bother.

Again, sorry for going off topic. Looking forward to getting a new OPPO as soon as they're available.
post #1175 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lotus00 View Post

interesting, I wonder if you can connect that to the Oppo

Probably not direct, if the A-400 acts as a DLNA sever then the Oppo should play the content stored on it. Click here to see the AVS thread on the A-400.
post #1176 of 2827
I have the 103 coming on Monday and have a question on the HDMI split configuration ,
I’m going to have HDMI 1 out on the oppo going to HDMI 1 in on my Onkyo 5507 for watching and listening to TV and have the oppo’s HDMI 2 out going to HDMI 2 in on the 5507 for sacd dsd playback , will this work , I mean is there still audio output on HDMI 1 when there split in this way .
I hope I made it clear enough I have a disorder that makes grammar and spelling difficult for me so please excuse
post #1177 of 2827
Never mind I just saw the FAQ sorry , but not suer what they mean by best effort
post #1178 of 2827
My 103 has glitch. Other oppos (93, 95) did not. While watching my HDTV which is connected directly via an HDMI cable to the cable box, and I power on the 103, the screen breaks up into static and flashes while the my receiver makes horrible loud popping and static noises! Turning off the 103 stops it, as does changing the TV input off the cable box input. I've reported this to Oppo Service... Any thoughts what it could be??
post #1179 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifi.guy View Post

My 103 has glitch. Other oppos (93, 95) did not. While watching my HDTV which is connected directly via an HDMI cable to the cable box, and I power on the 103, the screen breaks up into static and flashes while the my receiver makes horrible loud popping and static noises! Turning off the 103 stops it, as does changing the TV input off the cable box input. I've reported this to Oppo Service... Any thoughts what it could be??

Best guess: HDMI handshake issue and/or bad HDMI cable?




Been VERY happy with my 103 so far. smile.gif I won't be able to find out myself for a while and I have a few friends wondering about this so here goes:

What improvements/changes have been made as far as browsing music and using an external hard drive over the 9 series?

Also, what's the story on the iPad app? When is it due out?
post #1180 of 2827
probably not getting 103 for a few months(holiday overtime coming) but can anyone comment on the up-conversion/up-scaler quality of using the hdmi in with a cable box @ 720p preserve 480i(use those settings on my moto box to save HD space)?
post #1181 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by flamingeye View Post

Never mind I just saw the FAQ sorry , but not suer what they mean by best effort

I think that is what he was describing 5 posts before your post
post #1182 of 2827
i can't get my sony 4k projector to accept the 4k signal from the oppo. the screen just goes dark.. any ideas?
post #1183 of 2827
Thread Starter 
Are you going direct or through a receiver or a switch?

Do you have Deep Color enabled? If yes, and you disable it, do you experience the same errors?

If you switch to 1080p, confirm an image, then switch back to 4K, do you have the same issues?
post #1184 of 2827
[Deep color not enabled, connected direct to projector hdmi1 port...auto and 1080 work fine. Dark screen and intermittant sound on 4k
post #1185 of 2827
Once a horizontal grid came up after enabling 4k and had to restart the oppo to make it go away
post #1186 of 2827
has the HUD and OSD been changed from the 93 to the 103. Any more info added? Hopefully I can pick up my 103 on monday and start to play with it. What are some of the settings people are first fiddling with when they first get it?
post #1187 of 2827
I will take the darbee doublet out of the chain to see if thats the problem
post #1188 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Usarocker View Post

has the HUD and OSD been changed from the 93 to the 103. Any more info added? Hopefully I can pick up my 103 on monday and start to play with it. What are some of the settings people are first fiddling with when they first get it?

If you do PAGE UP/DOWN on the OSD it will toggle the bottom line to show the A/V attributes actually being sent on both HDMI ports.

-Bill
post #1189 of 2827
How does the 103 or 105 handle bluray music discs, like Tom Petty "MOJO"? Does the tv need to be on to navigate menus or does it start playing on its own?
post #1190 of 2827
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by samalmoe View Post

I will take the darbee doublet out of the chain to see if thats the problem

It is very possible the Darbee doesn't support 4K input. The BDP-103, for example, will not as well.
post #1191 of 2827
it was the darbee..4k works fine without it inline..however the sony processing is noticeably better than the oppo at this point..will play with it some more to see what i can see
post #1192 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland View Post

Probably not direct, if the A-400 acts as a DLNA sever then the Oppo should play the content stored on it. Click here to see the AVS thread on the A-400.

DNLA need not be involved. Any decent media box will act as an NAS and share any connected HDDs. Similarly, the Oppo can also access any other HDDs shared on your network. In many ways the Oppo will overlap functions of a media box. Aside from ISO support, there's not much you'd need a media box for other than the media cataloging and unique interface it might offer. Since I've been using the BDP-103 for the past few months, the only time I turn on my Dune player is for Cinavia infected BDs, and the Dune's connected HDDs also are available to the Oppo.

IOW, DNLA has almost no use in the BDP-103.
post #1193 of 2827
I just got my 103 today so far so good. I'm going to do 2-way control via IP with my RTI control since i can get meta data on my remote.
post #1194 of 2827
From Bob Pariseau
Quote:
The problem is simply that the companies that are in the business of offering Internet streaming content are focussing on North America first. Although there ARE options starting to come out in the rest of the world it's pretty much nascent chaos at this point -- difficult to make deals outside of limited, regional services.

So who is offering Internet streaming services in Australia at this point besides Google (which is where Picasa and YouTube come from). Sky TV? Somebody else?

Is Roku selling boxes in your part of the world? And if so, do you know what services are available to Australians when using a Roku box?
--Bob

We have a mob called quicklflix, with mainly the HBO group of movies/tv series. We also have some version of Apple TV. But I gather that technically, Netflix and Hulu are not legally available in Australia, although some chat on some forums suggest some people are getting around this by using a VPN or something called unblock-US. But there are apparently issues, esp as to what credit card you pay with,etc

I am not sure what is available on AppleTV: will ask my son,who is using it. There was some noise of the possibility of Netflix coming to Australia but apparentyl it fell through. We have Foxtel cable TV which is so-so: has some HD channels (NatGeo, DIscovery,BBC, and some sports HD channels. Foxtel had some sort of streaming service to your pc, but I never got their player to work, neither on my old or new (and fairly up to spec) pc. Lean pickings. Price we pay for a small population, I suspect.
post #1195 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

One more (for now wink.gif ). I was just reading the manual and noticed the split HDMI option, meaning Video only out of HDMI 1 and Audio only out of HDMI 2. They claim to use this for the best possible PQ and AQ, as Sony and Panasonic have stated as well. The argument Ive seen is they arent truly separated and this does nothing for performance.

Im just wondering if anyone has any tech insight to what this actually achieves, if anything?

It's not a question of quality, in the sense of somehow keeping audio from corrupting video or vice versa, as that sort of imagined corruption simply doesn't happen.

Rather it allows the handshake on the two outputs to concentrate on the two different goals. The HDMI 1 handshake can concentrate on sending the best video (without regard to the limitations of whatever HDMI 2 is connected to), and meanwhile the HDMI 2 handshake can concentrate on sending the best audio (without regard to the limitations of whatever HDMI 1 is connected to).
--Bob
This is a bit more than what I've read in the 93 owner's thread. Will the 93/95 players react the same way, or is this a new refinement for the 103/105 players?
post #1196 of 2827
My 103 will arrive on Tuesday to replace my 83. Maybe I'll do an unboxing video and go through the menus if it hasn't been done before then.
post #1197 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by samalmoe View Post

it was the darbee..4k works fine without it inline..however the sony processing is noticeably better than the oppo at this point..will play with it some more to see what i can see
I've spent some time with a friend's 4k Sony projector, and I would be surprised if the OPPO did the upscaling to 4k better than the Sony. I would expect the OPPO to be close or even the same, but not better. It will be interesting for you guys with the Sony 4k projectors to find out. smile.gif
post #1198 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

One more (for now wink.gif ). I was just reading the manual and noticed the split HDMI option, meaning Video only out of HDMI 1 and Audio only out of HDMI 2. They claim to use this for the best possible PQ and AQ, as Sony and Panasonic have stated as well. The argument Ive seen is they arent truly separated and this does nothing for performance.

Im just wondering if anyone has any tech insight to what this actually achieves, if anything?

It's not a question of quality, in the sense of somehow keeping audio from corrupting video or vice versa, as that sort of imagined corruption simply doesn't happen.

Rather it allows the handshake on the two outputs to concentrate on the two different goals. The HDMI 1 handshake can concentrate on sending the best video (without regard to the limitations of whatever HDMI 2 is connected to), and meanwhile the HDMI 2 handshake can concentrate on sending the best audio (without regard to the limitations of whatever HDMI 1 is connected to).
--Bob
This is a bit more than what I've read in the 93 owner's thread. Will the 93/95 players react the same way, or is this a new refinement for the 103/105 players?

The implementation has been Refined N' Enhanced™ for the 103/105. biggrin.gif

(Just so nobody with a 93/95 feels miffed, this was only possible because the HDMI hardware configuration is different in the 103/105.)

For the 103/105, the FAQ lays it out quite clearly (THANKS BILL!). But I'll restate it here anyway.

If you only have one ( -- EITHER one -- ) of HDMI 1 and HDMI 2 active, then the setting of Split A/V vs. Dual DIsplay is simply ignored.

If you have BOTH active, the Split A/V setting will focus on doing the handshake in such a way to get best video on HDMI 1 and best audio on HDMI 2, regardless of the limitations of the device on the opposite connection. Split A/V is the Factory Default setting.

If you have BOTH active, the Dual Display setting will focus on getting the best compromise solution for audio/video on *BOTH* HDMI 1 and HDMI 2 -- within the limits of what HDMI copy protection allows and the specific capabilities of whatever's on the other end of those HDMI 1 and HDMI 2 cables. The possible outcomes are too complicated to enumerate in any useful fashion. Did I ever mention that the HDMI specifications are the size of the Manhattan telephone directory? In fine print?

The thing to keep in mind is that if you have chosen Dual Display (or Split A/V), and at some point want to insure you are getting the best possible results for both audio and video on *JUST ONE* of HDMI 1 or HDMI 2, the thing to do is to make sure the other connection is not active! So for example, shut down HDMI 2 if you want to insure that Dual Display (or Split A/V) gets ignored, and thus the player can focus entirely on getting the best possible audio AND video on HDMI 1.

How you do this will depend on your other hardware. For example, for some displays it is sufficient to just turn off the display on HDMI 2 to make that connection inactive. For a receiver on HDMI 2, typically you just need to switch it to a different HDMI input (or turn it off). Again, with only one connection (HDMI 1 in this example) now active, Dual Display (or Split A/V) will be ignored and the handshake will focus entirely on getting the best possible results on the remaining, active HDMI output.

Now be aware that quite a few, modern HDMI devices keep their HDMI inputs "live" even when the device is supposedly OFF. There are complicated reasons for this but the simplest one is that the device may implement HDMI CEC remote control. I.e., it has to be prepared for the case the thing at the other end of the cable sends it a command over that HDMI cable to turn itself back ON!

A typical trick for such a device is to switch it to some other input BEFORE powering it OFF! So for example, if you want to make the HDMI 2 connection to a display inactive so that the 103/105 can focus on doing the best possible handshake to whatever's on HDMI 1, try changing that display to a DIFFERENT input before turning it OFF.



There are a couple caveats to keep in mind here:

1) ONLY HDMI 2 is capable of HDMI DSD output for SACD playback with SACD Output DSD set. This is a hardware limitation of the 103/105.

2) ONLY HDMI 1 can take advantage of the QDEO video processing. This is not just a matter of video quality. Some nifty features of the player only work if the QDEO processing is in the video signal path. So for example there are more Zoom modes available on HDMI 1, and the ability to do Zoom at all when playing a Blu-ray disc authored using BD-Java also only exists on HDMI 1.

So even though you can force the "best possible" HDMI handshake on EITHER HDMI 1 or HDMI 2, there are still reasons why you might prefer HDMI 1 for video and HDMI 2 for audio.
--Bob
Edited by Bob Pariseau - 9/30/12 at 1:42am
post #1199 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by samalmoe View Post

it was the darbee..4k works fine without it inline..however the sony processing is noticeably better than the oppo at this point..will play with it some more to see what i can see

Now that you've gotten the 4K signal working, you need to go back and revisit your calibration settings. For example, try going back to Deep Color 36 bit. Also check your Color Space output format.

But most importantly, check the INPUT settings on your display. It may be mistakenly applying processing to a 4K input that was intended to be applied to a 1080p input.

By the way, as I understand it you have a Sony 4K display. I've seen the sample screen shot blow ups from that and it looks like the Sony is applying some pretty nasty sharpness processing as part of upscaling 1080p. This is classic stuff (Sony really loves doing stuff like this) which can lead to the false impression of improved detail. So as you go through the calibration process here, first make sure the Sony is not mistakenly processing 4K input from the player. Check which player Color Space and Deep Color combo works best for the OPPO output into that display. And also check whether Sony's so-called image "enhancement" processing for 1080p input (upscaled to 4K in the display) is *REALLY* doing good stuff here or just providing false improvement that doesn't really work right over a wide range of content.
--Bob
post #1200 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by hifi.guy View Post

My 103 has glitch. Other oppos (93, 95) did not. While watching my HDTV which is connected directly via an HDMI cable to the cable box, and I power on the 103, the screen breaks up into static and flashes while the my receiver makes horrible loud popping and static noises! Turning off the 103 stops it, as does changing the TV input off the cable box input. I've reported this to Oppo Service... Any thoughts what it could be??

There are two possibilities that come to mind:

1) You are not cabled up the way you think you are cabled up. For example double check that you are cabled to an HDMI *OUTPUT* of the OPPO and not its Rear HDMI Input.

2) You have a REALLY NASTY "Ground Loop". I'm going to put my money on that one. Your symptoms are extreme -- nastier than a typical ground loop scenario -- but everything else fits.

A Ground Loop is interference current that is present on the cable shields of the cables connecting your equipment. It hops from device to device along those cable shields looking for a path back to ground. If it finds it, then current flows and a variety of unpleasant effects can happen. Note that the devices in that signal path don't even need to be turned on. It is their physical connection -- the cabling -- to the rest of your system which lets them be a link in the signal path allowing that current to flow.

These days, the single most common source of ground loop garbage is stuff that comes into your house on an improperly grounded cable shield for a Cable TV or Satellite TV feed wire. The wiring OUTSIDE your house picks up all sorts of cruft on its cable shield -- 60Hz power line interference for example. All of that is supposed to be drained to ground by a ground connection installed where that wire enters your house, but often that isn't connected properly and so that cruft is present on the cable shields in your theater looking for a path back to ground.

The 103 has a 3-prong power cord (the 93 has 2-prong), and that 3rd prong can provide a path for ground loop current to flow.

There are two, easy checks to see if this is what is going on.

First, temporarily disconnect the Cable TV feed wire coming out of the wall. If that makes the problem go away then you have definitely found the culprit. Correct the grounding of that cable TV feed where it enters your house.

Second, use a 3-prong to 2-prong cheater plug on the power plug for the 103. If THAT makes the problem go away then you also know that you are dealing with a "ground loop", even if the source of the garbage current is NOT coming in on your Cable TV feed wire. (If there is still a remnant of the noise, try reversing the 2-prong plug in the socket.) Now, a cheater plug like this is NOT A SOLUTION! It is a diagnostic, and temporary workaround. You STILL NEED TO FIND THE SOURCE of the garbage. Otherwise the problem is likely to return the next time you add equipment or adjust how things are interconnected.

If you discover that you really do have a ground loop causing this, and if the Cable TV feed wire is not the culprit, then the SECOND most common reason for such problems is that you are using power outlets on multiple circuits and those outlets are not all at the same "ground potential".

If you've had circuits added to feed your home theater there is one very simple and very common way for this to go wrong. The power coming into your circuit breaker box is 3-phase power, which, simply put, means there are two ways to attach a given circuit breaker to that incoming power. But those two ways often mean the circuits are not at the same ground potential. In typical circuit breaker boxes, if you have one breaker installed directly under another then they will be connected to the opposite rails of incoming power -- meaning any power outlets driven by those two circuit breakers will likely be at different ground potential. As you can imagine, unless you've told your electrician that you are using these new power circuits for equipment that is sensitive to whether ground potential is matched for every outlet, it is likely he'll have installed the new breakers without consideration for this.

To check this, temporarily turn off ALL BUT ONE of the circuit breakers feeding your home theater, and temporarily plug everything into the one remaining circuit (which may be driving more than one power outlet). You may need to power on equipment a piece at a time to keep from popping that circuit breaker. But if THIS makes the problem go away, then the simple fix is to get the electrician back in and ask him to reposition those breakers in the box so they all share the same rail.

A third, and FAR LESS LIKELY cause of ground loop garbage is that some piece of equipment in your theater has an electrical fault, and is presenting current on its chassis shield. This is actually a dangerous situation (shock hazard).



Of course it is also possible that your 103 has a hardware fault, but I've not heard of any failures that would generate the symptoms you are reporting.

Similarly, you might have a faulty HDMI cable connecting from the 103, but again I've not heard of a cable failure causing symptoms like this.
--Bob
Edited by Bob Pariseau - 9/30/12 at 2:20am
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