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Official OPPO BDP-103/BDP-105 Anticipation Thread - Page 6

post #151 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by giedrys View Post

. . . .

Or is this Oppo's some sort of new Applesque marketing strategy . . . .

Wait. You mean you've already heard about the player that was left behind at a local bar?
--Bob
post #152 of 2827
Is this the Marvell QDEO chip that is currently in the 93/95 OPPOs?
http://www.marvell.com/digital-entertainment/88DE2710/
http://www.marvell.com/digital-entertainment/assets/88DE2710_product_brief.pdf

If so then this is probably the Marvell QDEO chip that is going into the 103/105.
http://www.marvell.com/digital-entertainment/88DE2750/
http://www.marvell.com/digital-entertainment/assets/88de2750_product_brief.pdf

The 88DE2750 Marvell QDEO chip is currently being used in Onkyo receivers and HTIBs. Pioneer is also using this chip in some of their receivers also.
List of equipment that currently uses the 4k Marvell QDEO chip is on the right.
http://www.marvell.com/digital-entertainment/qdeo/

Some other information on the Marvell QDEO chip.
http://www.marvell.com/digital-entertainment/assets/qdeo_extended_technology_brief.pdf
http://www.marvell.com/digital-entertainment/assets/qdeo_tech_brief_2p.pdf
http://www.marvell.com/digital-entertainment/qdeo/
post #153 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jed1 View Post

Is this the Marvell QDEO chip that is currently in the 93/95 OPPOs?
http://www.marvell.com/digital-entertainment/88DE2710/
http://www.marvell.com/digital-entertainment/assets/88DE2710_product_brief.pdf

If so then this is probably the Marvell QDEO chip that is going into the 103/105.
http://www.marvell.com/digital-entertainment/88DE2750/
http://www.marvell.com/digital-entertainment/assets/88de2750_product_brief.pdf

The -93 and -95 use the 2750. See the FAQ: What video processor does the BDP-93 use?

-Bill
post #154 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

The -93 and -95 use the 2750. See the FAQ: What video processor does the BDP-93 use?
-Bill

Thanks Bill. I spent over 4 hours today reading through the threads for the 93/95 OPPO, because I couldn't remember where I seen the information. I forgot to read the FAQs.mad.gif

I guess OPPO is going to use the same Marvell chip as Marvell doesn't have any new chips listed.
post #155 of 2827
I am not over-exited. That Cinavia is a bugger, and a big one. Not Oppo's fault. I rip my Bd's on disc, because, my physical one's stay in Belgium, and I use my hard-disc when in France. So what is the use to play files from an external drive, if it will not work with this protection.

Not everybody must be an Oppo lover. I love the Pq and the possibilities, but some things are done better by an ordinary streamer. For audio files for instance, the Oppo stops the stream, between songs, that makes every time an annoying "click in my accuphase player. Unacceptable for such an expensive gear. Browsing thru files is also not great, so I hope the new models will cope with all that.

In my case, I not need a bd player at all. If just the fact it can play the physical disc give me such limitations, I am not willing to pay the price. What would have been good news is that Oppo would launch a streamer, with more flexibility, gapeless, and with the wonderful pq, we are used to. I have now a 200 € streamer that does a lot of things better then the Oppo (pdif out to accuphase, so sound wonderful), if only it had his PQ
post #156 of 2827
As an 83SE owner who auditioned and passed on the 95, I'm very interested in the 105. I've no doubts Oppo hardware and core functionality will be excellent - it always is. Really like the speculation on the digital input capabilities - very exciting! Am always amazed at the value Oppo puts into their players.

Like some others, my number one must have is network control (hopefully DLNA based). As I only use the player for audio playback, requiring a monitor and paging through server files is just not what my system is about. If they improve the ease of use, I'm pre-ordering, else I'll buy network streamer and keep the 83SE for disks (which I'm not buying anymore).

Oh, bought this MHL adapter to use with my Galaxy SII

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=108&cp_id=10833&cs_id=1083314&p_id=8675&seq=1&format=2

I'm no videophile, but it works great for what it is - cheap.

Styln
post #157 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by indieke2 View Post

I am not over-exited. That Cinavia is a bugger, and a big one. Not Oppo's fault. I rip my Bd's on disc, because, my physical one's stay in Belgium, and I use my hard-disc when in France. So what is the use to play files from an external drive, if it will not work with this protection.
Not everybody must be an Oppo lover. I love the Pq and the possibilities, but some things are done better by an ordinary streamer. For audio files for instance, the Oppo stops the stream, between songs, that makes every time an annoying "click in my accuphase player. Unacceptable for such an expensive gear. Browsing thru files is also not great, so I hope the new models will cope with all that.
In my case, I not need a bd player at all. If just the fact it can play the physical disc give me such limitations, I am not willing to pay the price. What would have been good news is that Oppo would launch a streamer, with more flexibility, gapeless, and with the wonderful pq, we are used to. I have now a 200 € streamer that does a lot of things better then the Oppo (pdif out to accuphase, so sound wonderful), if only it had his PQ

Any dedicated device will usually do a better job doing what it's made for when compared to a universal player.
post #158 of 2827
Since it will function as a DAC, I wonder witll it be an upconverting DAC? My Denon 3311ci will take a 16/44 input and convert it to 24/96.
post #159 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Any dedicated device will usually do a better job doing what it's made for when compared to a universal player.

Can U explain? The point I having, is that PQ is very important on one side, but on the other, if you stock your discs on a harddrive, the unit has to have the ability to play those files, and if because there is bd disc capicity on the unit means you cannot,play the external file playing has no sense any more and you would better buy a streamer, who handles media even better.

But he problem is that if you want then that awesome PQ of the Oppo, there is nothing compared to in the streamers department. Most streamers are made for the greater public, and although pQ is fair, I could not find a benchmark player and the same pQ as Oppo delivers. So best would be oppo makes a streamer, with awesome PQ, and less extra's. But then that unit would compete too much with their BD players!
post #160 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

We might as well get this out of the way right off the bat. Both players are subject to Blu-ray licensing rules applicable to Stand-alone Player designs launched late in 2012.
That means no Analog video output (no Component video jacks) and inclusion of Cinavia anti-copy detection. Wikipedia has a write up on Cinavia for folks wanting to know the gory details. The short version is that it will be harder/impossible to play unauthorized copies of theatrical movie releases or commercial Blu-ray discs. The detection and playback prevention happens some minutes after a copy begins to play -- which sounds a bit sadistic, but there it is. OPPO has no control over how/when Cinavia works.
--Bob

What about modifying it to play all zone's & region's for both DVD & Blu-ray like the previous models?
Will we see that happening or is it a thing of the past?
post #161 of 2827
Sorry to jump in the middle of thing's here,but I would like to know if 4K is different than the blu-ray?
To my knowledge 4K is a higher resolution and can easily be recorded ob a blu-ray disc because of it's capacity ( Assuming ) and the new oppo models are blu-ray players that support 4k,so 4K is blu-ray.
Or does it require a new format ?
post #162 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by oddmania View Post

What about modifying it to play all zone's & region's for both DVD & Blu-ray like the previous models?
Will we see that happening or is it a thing of the past?

As was the case with their prior Blu-ray players, the Blu-ray licensing prevents OPPO Digital from offering a Region Free player or promoting anyone else's 3rd party modification which does just that. But of course, just as with the prior players, everyone expects 3rd party shops will work pretty quickly to design and sell the necessary modifications.

I don't imagine the technical challenge will be much bigger for them with these players than it was with the prior players, except that adding an extra board inside the 105 may be a neat trick -- i.e., finding a space to do it which also allows for easy installation.

(The Cinavia stuff has nothing to do with whether the player has been modded for Region Free or not.)
--Bob
post #163 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by oddmania View Post

Sorry to jump in the middle of thing's here,but I would like to know if 4K is different than the blu-ray?
To my knowledge 4K is a higher resolution and can easily be recorded ob a blu-ray disc because of it's capacity ( Assuming ) and the new oppo models are blu-ray players that support 4k,so 4K is blu-ray.
Or does it require a new format ?

It requires a new format.

The issue is not just sufficient capacity on the disc, but whether the necessary data rate can be read off the disc.

File formats with the necessary data compression sophistication will have to be agreed upon, and then the optical drives and decoder chips will need to be mass produced.

Now, it wouldn't surprise me if the new format, whenever it happens, is still called Blu-ray. But it is almost certain that you will need to buy a new player to play such a format. I don't see how they can make it backwards compatible (in any useful way) for older players.
--Bob
post #164 of 2827
It would also require a change in hardware, as the capacity requirements would be quadrupled. One frame of 1080p data requires ~2megapixels, one frame of 4K data requires ~8 megapixels.

To keep the single disk form factor, you'd have to use multiple layers of the disk. It would increase the complexity of the drive, etc. Like Bob mentioned, the ancillary supporting information per movie may not support both the larger data requirements and maybe a new compression format.

That awaits actual production of 4K movies on a shiny disk. I think (please correct me if wrong), that the only public easily accessible source now for 4K video is youtube. Again, I may be wrong on this, but IMO the 4K displays will predate the delivery of 4K media for a while, which is where the upscaling in this unit will be valuable.
post #165 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by glangford View Post

Since it will function as a DAC, I wonder witll it be an upconverting DAC? My Denon 3311ci will take a 16/44 input and convert it to 24/96.

I own an 83SE, and upsample RBCD's and Squeezebox through an external DAC. When the 95 was being leaked I asked OPPO if it would upsample, and they responded "Never!"

Would that never becomes "now."
post #166 of 2827
Certainly not for the 95. The 105 is a new beast. We don't even know yet what DAC chipset it will use.
post #167 of 2827
too bad they will feature cinavia protection in the new lineup, required by licensing.
guess i have to go with the oppo bdp-93 then as soon as it's price will drop.
post #168 of 2827
Folks shouldn't assume that the presence of Cinavia protection support is necessarily something you can't work around. A lot more end-use experience is needed to determine what it does and doesn't effect in a given player.
post #169 of 2827
well, sure. but i have my line. here in switzerland cinavia discs are even more expensive than cinavia free BD. and 3D is a premium price as well. i don't want to pay almost 100% more for a cinavia protected 3d blu-ray in switzerland than elsewhere. so my choice is made :-) i will never buy a cinavia protected BD and/or player.
post #170 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jed1 View Post

I guess OPPO is going to use the same Marvell chip as Marvell doesn't have any new chips listed.

From the Secrets 2012 CEDIA show report as shown in text below:
Quote:
Towards the end of a delightful meal, we happened to find two mysterious bags containing prototype units of the BDP-103 and BDP-105 Blu-ray players from Oppo Digital. Not being ones to shy away from a little audio/video geek-by-candlelight, we delighted in examining these players. We didn't have our cameras with us, but we made the best of the lighting and the cameras on our phones to bring these pictures to you.

Both the BDP-103 and BDP-105 offer an updated Qdeo processor and a front-mounted HDMI input with support for MHL which stands for Mobile High-Definition Link.
Thats all that can be said at this time.
post #171 of 2827
Quote:
Both the BDP-103 and BDP-105 offer an updated Qdeo processor

This makes me drool a little bit and feel a bit giddy.
post #172 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

From the Secrets 2012 CEDIA show report as shown in text below:
Quote:
Towards the end of a delightful meal, we happened to find two mysterious bags containing prototype units of the BDP-103 and BDP-105 Blu-ray players from Oppo Digital. Not being ones to shy away from a little audio/video geek-by-candlelight, we delighted in examining these players. We didn't have our cameras with us, but we made the best of the lighting and the cameras on our phones to bring these pictures to you.
Both the BDP-103 and BDP-105 offer an updated Qdeo processor and a front-mounted HDMI input with support for MHL which stands for Mobile High-Definition Link
.

Thats all that can be said at this time.

Your post has perfect timing as I have found another QDEO chip that currently doesn't have a full set of specifications listed. The QDEO chip number is 88DE2755. Maybe this is the updated chip they were talking about.
http://www.marvell.com/guide/results/?type=video_processors_and_hybrid_demodulator
http://www.marvell.com/guide/assets/data/marvell_video_processors_and_hybrid_demodulator_psg.pdf
post #173 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acesn8s View Post

I own an 83SE, and upsample RBCD's and Squeezebox through an external DAC. When the 95 was being leaked I asked OPPO if it would upsample, and they responded "Never!"
Would that never becomes "now."

I agree. Oh well, I have a 95 I'm very happy with so I'll sit this one out. Seems to defeat the point of having the unit behave as an external dac if it can't upconvert.
post #174 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

The issue is not just sufficient capacity on the disc, but whether the necessary data rate can be read off the disc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hernanu View Post

It would also require a change in hardware, as the capacity requirements would be quadrupled.
Simply compressing the video 4x as much as current Blu-ray means that the 4K video would take the same amount of space and data rate reading off the disc. Vudu delivers 1080p at 1/4 the data rate and storage space as Blu-ray.

tongue.gif
post #175 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jed1 View Post

Your post has perfect timing as I have found another QDEO chip that currently doesn't have a full set of specifications listed. The QDEO chip number is 88DE2755. Maybe this is the updated chip they were talking about.
http://www.marvell.com/guide/results/?type=video_processors_and_hybrid_demodulator
http://www.marvell.com/guide/assets/data/marvell_video_processors_and_hybrid_demodulator_psg.pdf

Nice call ...guess thats what we can get for now!
post #176 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobearQSI View Post

Simply compressing the video 4x as much as current Blu-ray means that the 4K video would take the same amount of space and data rate reading off the disc. Vudu delivers 1080p at 1/4 the data rate and storage space as Blu-ray.
tongue.gif
Just to discuss this a little bit to show big a monster this stuff can be. Blu-rays can have up to 48 Mbps. Typically on well mastered BD's you see 32 to 40 Mbps. I know you are joking when you compare Vudu's poor streaming equivalent to BD at 1080P. smile.gif

Tech radar wrote this couple of paragraphs against this topic.
Quote:
The problem with delivery is the sheer size of 4K's data-stream; the infrastructure simply does not exist. The Digital Cinema Initiatives (DCI) specifications, which are used by Hollywood, use a maximum of 250 Mbits/sec for a JPEG2000 compressed 4K image, though this is set to double to 500 Mbits/sec in the next five years or so.

"In DCI terms, at the highest bitrate of 250 Mbit/sec, a two-hour 4k film would be 225GB for the image only, excluding audio or sub pictures," says Oliver Pasch, Head of European Digital Cinema Sales at Sony Professional.
They could kinda make it work if a new compression scheme that doubles the compression of the recording comes out against 128 GB physical media. That would meet the x4 data increase comparing 1080P BD's to 4K physical media.
Edited by JohnAV - 9/10/12 at 2:37pm
post #177 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmigoHD View Post

well, sure. but i have my line. here in switzerland cinavia discs are even more expensive than cinavia free BD. and 3D is a premium price as well. i don't want to pay almost 100% more for a cinavia protected 3d blu-ray in switzerland than elsewhere. so my choice is made :-) i will never buy a cinavia protected BD and/or player.

I severly doubt that cinavia is causing the higher prices where you live. The prices are probably more related to the VAT tax and other import duties or fees. If we import movies to the US, from europe or asia, they can range from 100% to 400% higher in price.

Cinavia (aka a watermark) is a analog high frequency noise, a freqency higher than the human ear can detect, that is embedded in the audio track of the studio master. Anything that is made from the studio master will have the watermark embedded in it. This will be any shiney disc, digital download, OTA cable and satellite broadcasts, basically everything imaginable. There is probably a piece of hardware in the devices audio decoders that will listen for the special frequency and if it doesn't hear it then the playback will stop or the audio will be muted. There maybe software in the playback device but I can't say for sure. The watermark will have no effect on devies that don't have the specific hardware/software to hear it. I suspect that anything that did not come from the studio master will not work going forward in time and it will be difficult to defeat this as the signal is an analog waveform, not digital.

Nobody should be upset that this is happening as all this was determined by the content owners more than a decade ago. You have to honestly ask your self "what was I doing in the mid to late nineties when all this was being finalized". I do not support this myself but there is little I or anybody can do now as the war was already won by the content owners long ago. For this reason I never got involved with making my own copies of movies and music as I figured it would be a waste of time when they finally started to implement their copy protection. I don't condem you if you do this but you will find it increasingly difficult to continue doing this going forward. You are going to have to ask yourself how much of your life do you want to waste trying to defeat all this.

Again I do not support what the content owners are doing but it is way to late to do anything about it. I most likely will buy the new OPPO as I do not care about Cinavia as long as it doesn't interfere with the playback of my ligitimate copies of movies and music.
post #178 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by glangford View Post

I agree. Oh well, I have a 95 I'm very happy with so I'll sit this one out. Seems to defeat the point of having the unit behave as an external dac if it can't upconvert.

I don't see the advantage in upconverting digital audio before DAC-ing. If the info isn't there to start with? It's like a digital zoom in a cheap camera, not?

There IS a very big advantage in using the BDP-105 as a DAC though IMO: most AVR's do not allow digital inputs to be distributed to zone 2/3. Zone 2 happens to be my office and I was obliged to purchase a DAC simply to be able to play the streamed music from my iMac in my office. Many times I desired to listen to the talkshow in my office my wife was watching in the adjacent living room, but alaas, that's the Satellite box, which is HDMI. With the BDP-105, that problem is solved. Worth the 500 euro or so extra over the BDP-103, since my DacMagic costs that much.

I have the BDP-83SE NuForce, which is superb in stereo (certainly superior over the DacMagic)
post #179 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jed1 View Post



Cinavia (aka a watermark) is a analog high frequency noise, a freqency higher than the human ear can detect, that is embedded in the audio track of the studio master. Anything that is made from the studio master will have the watermark embedded in it. This will be any shiney disc, digital download, OTA cable and satellite broadcasts, basically everything imaginable. There is probably a piece of hardware in the devices audio decoders that will listen for the special frequency and if it doesn't hear it then the playback will stop or the audio will be muted. There maybe software in the playback device but I can't say for sure. The watermark will have no effect on devies that don't have the specific hardware/software to hear it. I suspect that anything that did not come from the studio master will not work going forward in time and it will be difficult to defeat this as the signal is an analog waveform, not digital.
.

This is an over-simplified analysis, and inaccurate. It's an analog signal, but a digital coding that's keyed to the specific use of the audio. the digital code is repeated over and over, eliminating the need for it to be perfectly read every time. The code itself is keyed to the delivery of the audio, meaning that audio specified for BD discs can only be played on a BD disc with AACS encryption. That assumes that its being played on a licensed BD player that is also keyed for BD audio.

A great deal more ACTUAL experience with the protection is needed to determine how it will behave on a specific player. It's possible that a given player may not observe the protection in BD audio UNLESS it's being played from BD folder structure. Food for thought, and speculation about how all this works should be reserved until people actually have hands on it.
post #180 of 2827
Be aware that with new updates, it is possible that even in the 93 and 95, cinavia could be implanted! Not update your firmware to soon!
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