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Official OPPO BDP-103/BDP-105 Anticipation Thread - Page 64

post #1891 of 2827
I can't wait to get my grubby paws on mine!
post #1892 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

I can't wait to get my grubby paws on mine!

I can't wait until somebody gets his grubby paws on his.

How long after the full stat page went up on Oppo's site for the 103 was it available to buyers?

(I'm guessing the 105 will be released by Thanksgiving (U.S.) week.)
post #1893 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Anyone familiar with higher-end audio knows that the last 1% of performance costs 90% more. In the 105 you're paying for a custom built power supply and 2 audio boards (vs one in the 95), digital inputs and headphone amp..
The relationship between the 103 and 105 is very similar to the well-established relationship between the 93 and 95, so the only really unexplained difference in price is the $1200 vs $1000 for the 95. So, digital inputs, headphone amp and an extra audio board all for $200? If that's not a real value, what is?

Is the above a new form of bait and switch?

Meaning that the 105 costs $700 more than the 103.

Given recent OPPO player experience, odds are the 105 is worth the $700 premium; but so far the discussion here has raised a few questions in my mind on it's system design.

I'm looking forward to comments by the 1st group of real owners.
post #1894 of 2827
Thread Starter 
How is that bait and switch? OPPO is not saying that they are giving you x amount of quality audio for x amount of money. They made a product which they feel is better than the BDP-103 in terms of sonics, put a price on it, and are selling it to their customers. There is an increase in the audio performance, so they are not not baiting and switching.
post #1895 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by OtherSongs View Post

Is the above a new form of bait and switch?
Meaning that the 105 costs $700 more than the 103.
Given recent OPPO player experience, odds are the 105 is worth the $700 premium; but so far the discussion here has raised a few questions in my mind on it's system design.
I'm looking forward to comments by the 1st group of real owners.
Bait and switch would be something along the lines of them charging you $1200 for a 105, but giving you a 103 instead. I can assure you that's not going to happen. People need to take a step back and realize that the 105 hasn't been released yet and that the beta testers signed agreements with Oppo that bar us from discussing details that haven't been released yet. Just a modicum of patience might be required...
post #1896 of 2827
Never seems to amazing me how many adult babies are on here, plenty of whine in their bottles rolleyes.gif


DJoel
post #1897 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

OPPO is not using the full output potential (in terms of voltage) because they do not want to fry someone's headphones because they do not have a high enough impedance. You have to remember that OPPO needs to work with all headphones, even the cheap ass iPhone headphones you may have lying around your house, and can't just support audiophile grade headphones.
That being said, as Bob has already pointed out, you should really not have any difficulties driving any headphones on the BDP-105.

I would reserve judgement about saying "any". I honestly don't believe it can drive any magnetic planar type headphones such as the Audeze LCD-2 or 3. They can be driven perfectly well by a DAC like an MDAC, or a Yamaha digital piano, but not for example by the output on most cellphones.
post #1898 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

OPPO is not using the full output potential (in terms of voltage) because they do not want to fry someone's headphones because they do not have a high enough impedance. You have to remember that OPPO needs to work with all headphones, even the cheap ass iPhone headphones you may have lying around your house, and can't just support audiophile grade headphones.
That being said, as Bob has already pointed out, you should really not have any difficulties driving any headphones on the BDP-105.

Then they missed the boat on headphone amp design. I have a 230 buck firestone audio cute beyond (Driven with a 95). It has a low and high impedance switch to allow low and high impedance headphones.

I also don't understand the phrase 'can't just support audiophile grade headphones'? Really in a 1200 buck player? Who else is going to buy it but an audiophile? I"m assuming it has a 1/4" plug which is going to prevent most 'cheap ass' headphones from being plugged in. They should have made it an audiophile headphone amp and speced it accordingly. Anything else is just a waste of design effort. If you have a headphone amp and 95, there is no reason to upgrade.
post #1899 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by glangford View Post

I"m assuming it has a 1/4" plug which is going to prevent most 'cheap ass' headphones from being plugged in.
Adapters are pretty easy to find and are included with most headphones these days.
Quote:
If you have a headphone amp and 95, there is no reason to upgrade.
The headphone output isn't the only new feature in the 105 - there are plenty of other reasons people might decide to upgrade.
post #1900 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djoel View Post

Never seems to amazing me how many adult babies are on here, plenty of whine in their bottles rolleyes.gif
DJoel

I agree Dan. Oppo adds features to the 105 that the 95 did not have and now some want those features to be state of art. The inclusion of a HP amp and digital inputs added $200 to the cost of the 105 over the 95. But for that $200 some want an audiophile grade HP amp and DSD capability on the digital inputs. Where can someone find an audiophile HP amp and a DAC that has DSD capability for $200? If the added features of the 105 are not to ones liking go with something else.

Bill
post #1901 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

I agree Dan. Oppo adds features to the 105 that the 95 did not have and now some want those features to be state of art. The inclusion of a HP amp and digital inputs added $200 to the cost of the 105 over the 95. But for that $200 some want an audiophile grade HP amp and DSD capability on the digital inputs. Where can someone find an audiophile HP amp and a DAC that has DSD capability for $200? If the added features of the 105 are not to ones liking go with something else.
Bill

I am expecting the 95 and the 105 to sound the same, so those additional features can be selling points if someone wants to upgrade. Lets be realistic. Who is most likely to buy the 105?
post #1902 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by glangford View Post

Then they missed the boat on headphone amp design. I have a 230 buck firestone audio cute beyond (Driven with a 95). It has a low and high impedance switch to allow low and high impedance headphones.
I also don't understand the phrase 'can't just support audiophile grade headphones'? Really in a 1200 buck player? Who else is going to buy it but an audiophile? I"m assuming it has a 1/4" plug which is going to prevent most 'cheap ass' headphones from being plugged in. They should have made it an audiophile headphone amp and speced it accordingly. Anything else is just a waste of design effort. If you have a headphone amp and 95, there is no reason to upgrade.


I agree with you.

If you're trying to avoid morons claiming that the 105 smoked their cheapo headphones, then give a warning or if you must, a switch to reduce the output.

I was hoping to get away from my headphone amp but it doesn't really sound like I'm going to be able to.
post #1903 of 2827
I cannot wait to hear more from folks who purchase the 105. The additional features here have me excited about this player, way more than the 95.
post #1904 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Anyone familiar with higher-end audio knows that the last 1% of performance costs 90% more. In the 105 you're paying for a custom built power supply and 2 audio boards (vs one in the 95), digital inputs and headphone amp..
The relationship between the 103 and 105 is very similar to the well-established relationship between the 93 and 95, so the only really unexplained difference in price is the $1200 vs $1000 for the 95. So, digital inputs, headphone amp and an extra audio board all for $200? If that's not a real value, what is?
Quote:
Originally Posted by OtherSongs View Post

Is the above a new form of bait and switch?
Meaning that the 105 costs $700 more than the 103.
Given recent OPPO player experience, odds are the 105 is worth the $700 premium; but so far the discussion here has raised a few questions in my mind on it's system design.
I'm looking forward to comments by the 1st group of real owners.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

Bait and switch would be something along the lines of them charging you $1200 for a 105, but giving you a 103 instead.

Agreed.

But rdgrimes was waffling (see above).

FWIW I read his post, and first thought: ... this isn't a moveable feast. smile.gif

Decided that that was too artsy fartsy and came up with the "new form of" preface.

20/20 hindsight it was lame.

OTOH the context I followed it with was intended to mollify my lame opening line.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

I can assure you that's not going to happen. People need to take a step back and realize that the 105 hasn't been released yet and that the beta testers signed agreements with Oppo that bar us from discussing details that haven't been released yet. Just a modicum of patience might be required...

It is real owners that determine value. Not to mention actual sales.

BTW the concerns voiced here on both the 24/96 limit for coax-RCA and optical/Toslink digital input to the built-in internal DAC, as well as the built-in internal headphone amp (both heat and limited power) seem to have struck a note that has several supporters of OPPO players concerned.

Again, I'm looking forward to this 105 player getting into the hands of real owners, and the ensuing discussion here.
post #1905 of 2827
yeah, don't get me started on *bait and switch* - I heard on another forum that the BDP-105 was *supposed* to be able to make cafe-quality cappuccino but now it looks like they are not including the boiler in the final spec.

Totally bummed...

Oppo - I hope you're listening!
post #1906 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by OtherSongs View Post

BTW the concerns voiced here on both the 24/96 limit for coax-RCA and optical/Toslink digital input to the built-in internal DAC, as well as the built-in internal headphone amp (both heat and limited power) seem to have struck a note that has several supporters of OPPO players concerned.

Food for thought:
Quote:
Bottom line: Be very careful about any claims that 192kHz sounds better than 96kHz. Our experience points in the opposite direction.

John Siau
V.P., Benchmark Media Systems, Inc.

http://www.soundstagehifi.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=126:96khz-vs-192khz&catid=57:reader-feedback&Itemid=24
post #1907 of 2827
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

I would reserve judgement about saying "any". I honestly don't believe it can drive any magnetic planar type headphones such as the Audeze LCD-2 or 3. They can be driven perfectly well by a DAC like an MDAC, or a Yamaha digital piano, but not for example by the output on most cellphones.

I've listened to the Audeze LCD-2 on the BDP-105 and through a NuForce headphone amplifier and can safely say that I was not disappointed with the performance of the BDP-105's headphone amplifier.
post #1908 of 2827
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

I was hoping to get away from my headphone amp but it doesn't really sound like I'm going to be able to.

Don't discount anything yet. You are looking at just the NOMINAL specifications of the player. We all know OPPO uses very conservative numbers on their websites, as they have guaranteed functionality as a standard. Their players have always performed beyond these specifications, so the headphone amplifier is in no way neutered as people make it out to be.
post #1909 of 2827
OPPO UK has added some internals photos for the European model, BDP-105EU

http://oppo-bluray.co.uk/ecommerce/blu-ray-players/oppo-bdp-105eu.aspx

--Bob
post #1910 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

I've listened to the Audeze LCD-2 on the BDP-105 and through a NuForce headphone amplifier and can safely say that I was not disappointed with the performance of the BDP-105's headphone amplifier.

Neuromancer,

I must say that I find your response ambiguous. Are you saying that the Audeze LCD-2 headphones sound as good being heard through the NuForce headphone amplifier as compared to the BDP-105 headphone amplifier? Thanks for the clarification
post #1911 of 2827
Thread Starter 
To my ears it sounded as good direct from the BDP-105 headphone amplifier as it did through the NuForce headphone amplifier. My language is a bit ambiguous because this is my personal opinion and you mileage may very.
post #1912 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

OPPO UK has added some internals photos for the European model, BDP-105EU
http://oppo-bluray.co.uk/ecommerce/blu-ray-players/oppo-bdp-105eu.aspx
--Bob

That's a heck of a lot of cirucuitry for a 2-ch board analog board, no?smile.gif Is the headphone amp circuitry part of this board as well? Why no images on the Oppo US website?

 

And why are there no US reviews of the 103 yet? How did the french beat us to this?

 

Questions, question and more questions, i know biggrin.gif!

post #1913 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

OPPO UK has added some internals photos for the European model, BDP-105EU
http://oppo-bluray.co.uk/ecommerce/blu-ray-players/oppo-bdp-105eu.aspx

--Bob
That's a heck of a lot of cirucuitry for a 2-ch board analog board, no?smile.gif  Is the headphone amp circuitry part of this board as well?

And why are there no US reviews of the 103 yet? How did the french beat us to this?

Yes the Headphone output circuitry is also part of the 2CH board.

OPPO UK seems to have been very aggressive with their early PR push. I think that's great of course, as in the past Europe has had to lag a bit.
--Bob
post #1914 of 2827
Nice we have now at last some inside pictures of BDP105. Those pictures are not possible to be saved from the website, for a better inspection.... I can hardly understand why all this secrecy... What can be the problem at for they who are interested, will can see closer what they will buy/order quite soon?
Anyway...I can see that the toroid transformer is no longer a Rotel one... And it deliver now on two outputs: one double for analogue final and headphone, and one to power the rest of the analogue regulators. This is very good, as the former Rotel transformer it was bad dimensioned, and sure enough, not so "custom made" as it were advertised for BDP95...
I think in general it is a step forward in designing of this model, but a closer look inside is very necessary before some preliminary detailed conclusions. One thing is quite clear now in my opinion: the design of the boards are more compact, and that because it will be more difficult to be modified...biggrin.gif
post #1915 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coris View Post

Nice we have now at last some inside pictures of BDP105. Those pictures are not possible to be saved from the website, for a better inspection.... I can hardly understand why all this secrecy... What can be the problem at for they who are interested, will can see closer what they will buy/order quite soon?
Anyway...I can see that the toroid transformer is no longer a Rotel one... And it deliver now on two outputs: one double for analogue final and headphone, and one to power the rest of the analogue regulators. This is very good, as the former Rotel transformer it was bad dimensioned, and sure enough, not so "custom made" as it were advertised for BDP95...
I think in general it is a step forward in designing of this model, but a closer look inside is very necessary before some preliminary detailed conclusions. One thing is quite clear now in my opinion: the design of the boards are more compact, and that because it will be more difficult to be modified...biggrin.gif
You didn't look hard enough. biggrin.gif

Go to Customer Service > Downloads there and you can download a ZIP file with the photos:

http://www.oppo-bluray.co.uk/customer-services/downloads/

Enjoy!
--Bob
post #1916 of 2827
You right! I didn`t look in the right place...smile.gif Mea culpa...
post #1917 of 2827

Oppo really seems to have heeded the calls from modders and other 3rd parties that would use their platform as a base for their alternate designs by making the player very modular. One can swap the 2CH board with a modded one. The same for the linear power supply and MCH board as well. Simply swap boards and you now have a $10,000 player!

 

Bob:

Some users were concerned about the headphone output not being able to adequately drive some exotic headphones of the planar and electrostatic type. Not knowing if this is true or not but do you know if the maximum voltage and current output of the headphone amplifier is programmable? If so, this will be a killer feature indeed!!!

post #1918 of 2827
Thread Starter 
Non-programmable, but if OPPO finds that their customers are requiring more power for their headphones, OPPO can always adjust this through firmware on their end.
post #1919 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

. . . . Simply swap boards and you now have a $10,000 player! . . . .
Don't forget the power cord. $15K player.
--Bob
post #1920 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

Non-programmable, but if OPPO finds that their customers are requiring more power for their headphones, OPPO can always adjust this through firmware on their end.

 

If its programmable through firmware, then its programmable, rightsmile.gif? Guess not by the user...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post


Don't forget the power cord. $15K player.
--Bob

  eek.gif!!!

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