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Official OPPO BDP-103/BDP-105 Anticipation Thread - Page 65

post #1921 of 2827

With the 103, the video board is clearly seen on top with the heatsink ontop of the mediatek (?) / Qdeo (?) decoder chips. But with the 105, the video board is beneath the 2CH or MCH boards, probably the 2CH board. My question is how will the heat be properly removed in this design? Seems to be me the we would have the possibility of a heat trap, sandwiched between the analog boards and the decoder board.

 

I hope i'm wrong or mistaken here and wont heave heat related issues with this player.

 

- David

post #1922 of 2827
^ You don't like Hot Jazz?
--Bob
post #1923 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

^ You don't like Hot Jazz?
--Bob

Not THAT hotsmile.gif!

 

Apparently, Oppo US has put up some HiRez pics (sortof) of the 105 sans the 2CH board. One heck of a ground plane used on these boards to keep things quiet!


Edited by dmusoke - 10/29/12 at 7:48pm
post #1924 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

With the 103, the video board is clearly seen on top with the heatsink ontop of the mediatek (?) / Qdeo (?) decoder chips. But with the 105, the video board is beneath the 2CH or MCH boards, probably the 2CH board. My question is how will the heat be properly removed in this design? Seems to be me the we would have the possibility of a heat trap, sandwiched between the analog boards and the decoder board.

I hope i'm wrong or mistaken here and wont heave heat related issues with this player.

- David

Look closer at the layout from the side and top views. there's ample space for air to flow up from the bottom through and around the analog boards and out the top. Hence the massive case size.
post #1925 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Look closer at the layout from the side and top views. there's ample space for air to flow up from the bottom through and around the analog boards and out the top. Hence the massive case size.


I don't know anything about heat dissipation, but I will say if you compare the innards of the 103 and 105, that has GOT to be worth $700.00!
post #1926 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post


Look closer at the layout from the side and top views. there's ample space for air to flow up from the bottom through and around the analog boards and out the top. Hence the massive case size.

Maybe i'm missing something here but there's not much room by the sides for adequate heat flow(maybe 1/8 inch?). Yes, i know the until is tall but most of the heat, i believe, will go up vertical into the 2CH analog board as there's no fan to spread it around evenly, hence my original concern. As i said before, i really hope i'm wrong and Oppo has done a complete thermal analysis of this unit to have complete confidence in their decision not to have a fan, which i know was a problem to many folks (not me though).

 

Still looking for the headphone amplifier circuitry but.....can't....seem.... to....find....it.(on the 2CH board).


Edited by dmusoke - 10/29/12 at 9:18pm
post #1927 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by sta363 View Post



I don't know anything about heat dissipation, but I will say if you compare the innards of the 103 and 105, that has GOT to be worth $700.00!

Amen brother ! biggrin.gif

post #1928 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post


Specifically see http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-105/images/BDP-105-Top-hr.jpg
They still don't have a side view as you say of the 2 ch audio board.

Yup ... And these boards are fresh of the line ....dated 09/07/2012. These are just the pcbs...the fully assembled boards(pcba) probably a few weeks later.

post #1929 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Oppo really seems to have heeded the calls from modders and other 3rd parties that would use their platform as a base for their alternate designs by making the player very modular. One can swap the 2CH board with a modded one. The same for the linear power supply and MCH board as well. Simply swap boards and you now have a $10,000 player!


There is not very easy to change the boards with another moded ones. On those boards there are plantet ESS9018 and the firmware chips to make the DACs runing... The firmware is for sure not possible to be copied to another boards/chips... The mods have to be done on those boards, or another ones have to have theirs own firmware for the DAC chips... and that firmware have to match the rest of the player (unknown) software... A such mod it will not be possible for an usual moder and almost nobody will want to invest in this...
Edited by Coris - 10/30/12 at 5:43am
post #1930 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Maybe i'm missing something here but there's not much room by the sides for adequate heat flow(maybe 1/8 inch?).

What you're missing is that the analog boards are "stair-stepped" in the case, there's an ample air flow around between them.
post #1931 of 2827
I'm wondering about the volume control on the headphone amplifier. I know the settings are independent of the volume control on the analog outputs, but is it otherwise the same digital volume control? Or is it a separate analog volume control?
post #1932 of 2827
Thread Starter 
The same volume control.
post #1933 of 2827
Thanks! This is great to know. I liked how the 32-bit digital volume control was implemented on the BDP-95, so I'm glad to know that the same quality will be available on the BDP-105 for headphones.
post #1934 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Don't forget the power cord. $15K player.
--Bob



I know you're being cheeky Bob but now I am wondering how many Oppo owners have switched out their power cords for an aftermarket brand? I would think someone will with the upcoming release of the 105 being touted as an audiophile player? I just need a new Blu ray player that sounds good on both music and movies! I am in stanby now, I've already boxed up my Ayre CX-7e to sell and the Panasonic BD30 will go into storage.
post #1935 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post


What you're missing is that the analog boards are "stair-stepped" in the case, there's an ample air flow around between them.

I see that and hope you are correct and i am wrong about my heat concernssmile.gif!

post #1936 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

Maybe buying the 105 makes no sense to you because of the lack of support on the digital inputs for DSD. It is already well known that there will not be support for DSD on the digital inputs so why the surprise? Buy something that will provide the DSD support you require and move on. It seems to me that no matter how much Oppo loads up their players with features there are some that want more and more.
Bill

Thanks Bill! Some are beating this thing to death when it is common knowledge. If the solution is not here then move on. I blame Oppo for being so accomodating on SOME of the user feature requests.smile.gif What other manufacturer actually listens to their customer base at this price point?
post #1937 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by edwardkim View Post

105 is priceed at 140% higher than 103. Based on this reality, I would expect OPPO do a much batter job of explaining the differences in performance.
I and many others are not complaining the $1,200 price but, we need to understand what additional performace we are getting for the 140% premium in price.
OPPO makes great products and their customer services have benn first rate but, their silence on performance of 105 has been a major disappointment ...

Reviewers (professional and amateurs) will provide this feedback.smile.gif I don't recall Oppo ever getting into specifics.
post #1938 of 2827

I asked Oppo if the analog outputs of the 103/105 are DC or AC coupled and their suprising response was:

 

All of our current and previous generation of players are capacitive coupled. Only the BDP-83SE stereo analog outputs were DC coupled.
 


Best Regards,

Customer Service
OPPO Digital, Inc.
2629B Terminal Blvd.
Mountain View, CA 94043

Service@oppodigital.com
Tel: 650-961-1118
Fax: 650-961-1119
 
This is a suprise and a disappointment (to me anyways) for i had thought my 95 was also DC coupled and now the 105 will be AC coupled. Those who removed the output capacitor on the original BDP-83 noticed an increase in the very low bass of about 2dB or so, IIRC. I realize the need to prevent DC offsets on component outputs but they are other ways to eliminate it w/o limiting the low end response.
 
Now you have the 3dB cut off due to the BD player outputs which feed into the analog inputs of the AVR/Prepro with their own 3dB cutoffs. The AVR/PrePro outputs then now also have their own 3dB cutoff as well which feed the power amp inputs with their won 3dB cutoff. All these cutoffs are cumumlative and i wouldn't be suprised to have an HT system 3dB greater than 20Hz in a typical systemredface.gif

 

EDIT:

David,

A correction to our first E-Mail: The BDP-95 for all analog outputs was DC coupled. It was not AC coupled as previously stated.

 


Best Regards,

Customer Service
OPPO Digital, Inc.
2629B Terminal Blvd.
Mountain View, CA 94043

Service@oppodigital.com
Tel: 650-961-1118
Fax: 650-961-1119

Edited by dmusoke - 10/30/12 at 2:06pm
post #1939 of 2827


A preliminary examination of the inside pictures it shows that Oppo used a high performing chip op amp for headphone stage. This chip can run up to 2-3W, so is not any problem to drive the most of the headphones. The lowest driving impedance of this op amp is 8 ohm. One can see the placement of this stage on the analogue board here by. It looks to me that the headphone op amp is DC coupled to the output (through resistors)... I`m almost sure now that all the other outputs of the BDP105 are AC coupled. It seems that is planted a large capacitor on the signal output path on each channel! This surprising me very much, and I think is very unfortunate...

It seems to me that the DAC chip itself is used in a different way than in the earlier model (95). A short clarification about the ESS9018 DAC chip: this chip have 8 independent DAC channels inside. Those channels can be connected (hardware) together (2, 4, 6, 8) When all the 8 channels are connected in parallel (for only one stereo channel), one have the max accuracy of the resulting signal. 8 DACs working together and output the same signal (one may use two ESS9018 to have a LR stereo in such case). In stereo configuration of one DAC, are used 4 + 4 channels connected together for max accuracy. Multichannel configuration use all the 8 channels independently.
In the BDP 95 model, the stereo output were obtained from 4 + 4 channels (4 channels connected together). This assured max accuracy for the stereo signal in BDP95 model. In the upcoming BDP105 it seems that Oppo used a configuration for ESS9018 which assure 2+2 channels for balanced/unbalanced output, and 2+2 channels for headphone output. I`m not very sure about the allocation is strictly in this way, but is very sure to me that the Sabre chip is hardware divided between RCA/XLR output and headphone output.

Personally I`m quite critic to this design. I should want that one could have the possibility to use 4+4 channels of the chip for both (switching) normal out and headphone out. This way could assure the max accuracy in both cases. When one use the headphone is no any reason to have half part of the DAC chip hardware dedicated to another output which is not in use, and opposite. This judgement is made as a consequence of what is to be seen in the high resolution inside picture of 105 model. Oppo are welcome to correct me if I have seen wrong in the picture, or to precise more on this aspect...

It seems that this player model have a better distribution of the analogue power supplies and regulators on the boards. Having two dedicated outputs from the toroid transformer it make the PSUs more efficient and it assure less heat dissipation inside the enclosure. This design it were already a must for the 95 model, and it looks like it is implemented now in 105 model.
Edited by Coris - 10/30/12 at 2:54pm
post #1940 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Anyone familiar with higher-end audio knows that the last 1% of performance costs 90% more. In the 105 you're paying for a custom built power supply and 2 audio boards (vs one in the 95), digital inputs and headphone amp..
The relationship between the 103 and 105 is very similar to the well-established relationship between the 93 and 95, so the only really unexplained difference in price is the $1200 vs $1000 for the 95. So, digital inputs, headphone amp and an extra audio board all for $200? If that's not a real value, what is?

This sums it up nicely.smile.gif Some would have no problem paying some modder a minimum twice this for their upgrade.biggrin.gif
post #1941 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by OtherSongs View Post

.....seem to have struck a note that has several supporters of OPPO players concerned.

I like this open forum, but people are speculating on the performance of some aspects of the player without any hands-on experience.eek.gif This would have more value if they were coming from actual owners, which there are none outside of the beta testers. So why speculate? I plan on purchasing the BDP-105 and if it doesn't live up to my expectations then I will just return it.smile.gif
post #1942 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

I asked Oppo if the analog outputs of the 103/105 are DC or AC coupled and their suprising response was:

All of our current and previous generation of players are capacitive coupled. Only the BDP-83SE stereo analog outputs were DC coupled.

 

Best Regards,


Customer Service

OPPO Digital, Inc.
2629B Terminal Blvd.

Mountain View, CA 94043

Service@oppodigital.com
Tel: 650-961-1118

Fax: 650-961-1119

 
This is a suprise and a disappointment (to me anyways) for i had thought my 95 was also DC coupled and now the 105 will be AC coupled. Those who removed the output capacitor on the original BDP-83 noticed an increase in the very low bass of about 2dB or so, IIRC. I realize the need to prevent DC offsets on component outputs but they are other ways to eliminate it w/o limiting the low end response.



I can not argue with Oppo about this subject. They should know better... But I really think it have to be a mistake here in this answer. All the outputs on BDP95 are DC coupled (through resistors). I can not see any capacitor in the output signal path...eek.gif

But I can see some capacitors on the outputs of the 105 model... This will be clarified when the first owners will open the box...
Edited by Coris - 10/30/12 at 12:46pm
post #1943 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

I see that and hope you are correct and i am wrong about my heat concerns:) !

+1

Odds are large at this point that OPPO has not provided an on/off switch (either physical or in the firmware) for the headphone amp, which only adds to the worries about heat for the new 105 player.

Unless of course the headphone amp is way underpowered, in which case it won't give off much heat.

Just have to wait until it gets into the hands of real owners.
post #1944 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

I like this open forum, but people are speculating on the performance of some aspects of the player without any hands-on experience.eek.gif This would have more value if they were coming from actual owners, which there are none outside of the beta testers. So why speculate? I plan on purchasing the BDP-105 and if it doesn't live up to my expectations then I will just return it.smile.gif

I'll hold off for a good 6+ months and let the dust settle.
post #1945 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coris View Post



I can not argue with Oppo about this subject. They should know better... But I really think it have to be a mistake here in this answer. All the outputs on BDP95 are DC coupled (through resistors). I can not see any capacitor in the output signal path...eek.gif
But I can see some capacitors on the outputs of the 105 model... This will be clarified when the first owners will open the box...

They corrected themselves. See my corrected post above.

 

BTW ...what chip is used to drive the headphones?

post #1946 of 2827
The chip is TPA 6120A2
post #1947 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coris View Post

The chip is TPA 6120A2

Thanks Corissmile.gif!


Edited by dmusoke - 10/30/12 at 3:28pm
post #1948 of 2827
So the 95 was DC coupled and the 105 is AC coupled. DC is theoretically better because it means a flatter frequency response at the lowest frequencies. Does this suggest poorer bass handling on the 105?

I am also interested/concerned by the suggestion that the stereo DAC chip (which consists of 8 configurable DACs) is configured as 2+2 for RCA and 2+2 for XLR instead of 4+4 for both as it was on the 95

Other than the power supply, I have yet to hear any suggestion of how the new design is an improvement. Unfortunately comments so far indicate the converse. But I highly doubt that Oppo would release a player that had anything "less" in output quality than a previous model. At least parity must have been a minimum goal....
post #1949 of 2827

Oppo is very conservative in their current design spec for the headphone circuit. Look at the table below for the rated 0.001% THD spec. The chip is capable of much more output power at this low THD than what Oppo has designed it for.

 

Impedance    Oppo Spec           Chip Spec (@0.001% THD)

-------------- ---------------       -------------------------------------

600 ohm       12mW                   80mW - 150mW (depending on whether Oppo uses +/-12 or +/-15V supply rails. Higher voltage produces higher output powers).

 

60 ohm          91mW                  850mW - 1300mW (depending on whether Oppo uses +/-12 or +/-15V supply rails).

 

32 ohm          137mW                1500mW - 2000mW (depending on whether Oppo uses +/-12 or +/-15V supply rails).

 

 

I hope Oppo gives the user in software for the option to set the maximum output power level of the headphone amplifier. This will prevent alot of users from complaining about the 'lack' of punch or whatever for those more exotic headphones that require higher current drives(not the iphone typessmile.gif!).

 

- David


Edited by dmusoke - 10/30/12 at 3:39pm
post #1950 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

So the 95 was DC coupled and the 105 is AC coupled. DC is theoretically better because it means a flatter frequency response at the lowest frequencies. Does this suggest poorer bass handling on the 105?
I am also interested/concerned by the suggestion that the stereo DAC chip (which consists of 8 configurable DACs) is configured as 2+2 for RCA and 2+2 for XLR instead of 4+4 for both as it was on the 95
Other than the power supply, I have yet to hear any suggestion of how the new design is an improvement. Unfortunately comments so far indicate the converse. But I highly doubt that Oppo would release a player that had anything "less" in output quality than a previous model. At least parity must have been a minimum goal....

I asked Oppo for the BDP-105 low frequency end 3dB cutoff and they said ..."the response is flat with no drop off at 20Hz with the 3dB being well below that value".


Edited by dmusoke - 10/30/12 at 3:44pm
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