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Official OPPO BDP-103/BDP-105 Anticipation Thread - Page 68

post #2011 of 2807
11/2/12 at 3:20pm
Thanks, dmusoke, for posting your email from Oppo. Highly informative!
Edited by MellowVelo - 11/2/12 at 3:38pm
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post #2012 of 2807
11/2/12 at 3:44pm
Very nice that Oppo came out with all those extended informations/explanations... I think I will keep my preorder... but some mods will be anyway... Less is better wink.gif
Thanks dmusoke!
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post #2013 of 2807
11/2/12 at 4:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

The asynchronous DAC is a stereo only solution. If you want multi-channel then you are looking at DLNA or attached storage.

Thanks ...nice to know.

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post #2014 of 2807
11/2/12 at 4:14pm

A while back, i had some reservations(Nah! my very own expert knowledgebiggrin.gif!) on the possibility of extra heat being generated into the 2-CH board because the video board was directly underneath the stereo. They respondedas follows:

 

We have done extensive testing on the thermal properties inside of the player, and we have made some design changes to ensure that a fan was not required and passive cooling would not interfere with the operation or audio characteristics of the player.

The first thing we did was make the player taller. The player is now 2.5U without feet, a half U larger than the BDP-95. The increased height allows for more distance to exist between the components, which greatly reduces the overall ambient temperature inside of the chassis.

The second thing we did was split the audio boards and offset their height. This allows air to flow between the two boards rather than getting stuck between the audio board and the mainboard.

The final thing we did was add vents. There are vents on the top cover of the player and a row of vents on the back panel, right above the stereo audio board.

 

The end result is a player which runs cooler and more efficient than the BDP-95.

Best Regards,

Customer Service
OPPO Digital, Inc.
2629B Terminal Blvd.
Mountain View, CA 94043
Service@oppodigital.com
Tel: 650-961-1118
Fax: 650-961-1119
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post #2015 of 2807
11/2/12 at 4:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coris View Post

Very nice that Oppo came out with all those extended informations/explanations... I think I will keep my preorder... but some mods will be anyway... Less is better wink.gif
Thanks dmusoke!

Coris,

Do you modify all your components if possible?smile.gif
Edited by bakerwi - 11/2/12 at 4:44pm
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post #2016 of 2807
11/2/12 at 4:44pm
dmusoke,

Thanks for the two informative posts from Oppo.smile.gif
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post #2017 of 2807
11/2/12 at 4:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

A while back, i had some reservations(Nah! my very own expert knowledge:D !) on the possibility of extra heat being generated into the 2-CH board because the video board was directly underneath the stereo. They respondedas follows: ...

We have done extensive testing on the thermal properties inside of the player, ...and we have made some design changes to ensure that a fan was not required and passive cooling would not interfere with the operation or audio characteristics of the player.

The first thing we did was make the player taller. The player is now 2.5U without feet, a half U larger than the BDP-95. The increased height allows for more distance to exist between the components, which greatly reduces the overall ambient temperature inside of the chassis.

The second thing we did was split the audio boards and offset their height. This allows air to flow between the two boards rather than getting stuck between the audio board and the mainboard.

The final thing we did was add vents. There are vents on the top cover of the player and a row of vents on the back panel, right above the stereo audio board.

The end result is a player which runs cooler and more efficient than the BDP-95.

Customer Service OPPO Digital, Inc.

Well there's a statement that finally has positive merit in favor or the 105 with regard to a possible heat issue of the 105 player.

Meaning that heat is likely not an issue for the 105 player; but still waiting to hear from actual real owners.
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post #2018 of 2807
11/2/12 at 5:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke 
I believe (and hope) the long and detailed e-mail below from Oppo will silence all squabbling regarding the DAC configuration design choices for the new 105.
Thanks for all that info. Oppo's response was VERY enlightening and has made me decide to keep my 95...........for now. I reserve the right to change my mind when actual reviews from folks here start to post.
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post #2019 of 2807
11/2/12 at 5:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by OtherSongs View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

A while back, i had some reservations(Nah! my very own expert knowledge:D !) on the possibility of extra heat being generated into the 2-CH board because the video board was directly underneath the stereo. They respondedas follows: ...

We have done extensive testing on the thermal properties inside of the player, ...and we have made some design changes to ensure that a fan was not required and passive cooling would not interfere with the operation or audio characteristics of the player.

The first thing we did was make the player taller. The player is now 2.5U without feet, a half U larger than the BDP-95. The increased height allows for more distance to exist between the components, which greatly reduces the overall ambient temperature inside of the chassis.

The second thing we did was split the audio boards and offset their height. This allows air to flow between the two boards rather than getting stuck between the audio board and the mainboard.

The final thing we did was add vents. There are vents on the top cover of the player and a row of vents on the back panel, right above the stereo audio board.

The end result is a player which runs cooler and more efficient than the BDP-95.

Customer Service OPPO Digital, Inc.

Well there's a statement that finally has positive merit in favor or the 105 with regard to a possible heat issue of the 105 player.

Meaning that heat is likely not an issue for the 105 player; but still waiting to hear from actual real owners.

I'm not an actual real owner -- I just play one on TV. But I've deliberately set up my 105 in a semi-enclosed space to see if I could generate any heat related problems. This is a wooden console shelf space, closed by a door in the front and open in the back. There's a couple inches side wall clearance on either side and about 4 inches clearance above. The opening in the back is reduced a couple inches by a structural support across the back top of the opening.

I use a remote sensing thermometer periodically to see what's going on inside that space -- e.g., measuring the temperature increase of the inside surface above the player.

This is not a formal thermal analysis of course, but it works for me.

My results are simple. In this configuration the player's heat is being dissipated adequately and I've found no operational or quality problems which are due to heat, even after many hours of continuous use. This is with HDMI, with multi-channel Analog, and with the Headphone output.
--Bob
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post #2020 of 2807
11/2/12 at 6:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

I'm not an actual real owner -- I just play one on TV. But I've deliberately set up my 105 in a semi-enclosed space to see if I could generate any heat related problems. This is a wooden console shelf space, closed by a door in the front and open in the back. There's a couple inches side wall clearance on either side and about 4 inches clearance above. The opening in the back is reduced a couple inches by a structural support across the back top of the opening.
I use a remote sensing thermometer periodically to see what's going on inside that space -- e.g., measuring the temperature increase of the inside surface above the player.
This is not a formal thermal analysis of course, but it works for me.

Amusing. smile.gif Bob, I think well of you and neuromancer and rdgrimes and others in this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

My results are simple. In this configuration the player's heat is being dissipated adequately and I've found no operational or quality problems which are due to heat, even after many hours of continuous use. This is with HDMI, with multi-channel Analog, and with the Headphone output.

I've removed heat concerns from my list of possible concerns of 105 player.

FWIW I'd not been aware of the venting built into the 105 case; you might stress that to others with concerns with heat buildup within the 105 player due to it not having a fan.
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post #2021 of 2807
11/3/12 at 12:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

Thanks for posting that.
It's a worthwhile reminder that OPPO considers and tests all sorts of designs that don't make it into the final product, for one reason or another.
Just because a feature is absent doesn't mean it wasn't tried.
-Bill

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MellowVelo View Post

Thanks, dmusoke, for posting your email from Oppo. Highly informative!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coris View Post

Very nice that Oppo came out with all those extended informations/explanations... I think I will keep my preorder... but some mods will be anyway... Less is better wink.gif
Thanks dmusoke!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

dmusoke,
Thanks for the two informative posts from Oppo.smile.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post


Thanks for all that info. Oppo's response was VERY enlightening and has made me decide to keep my 95...........for now. I reserve the right to change my mind when actual reviews from folks here start to post.

 

Y'all are very welcomesmile.gif! My posts came out of my extreme curiosity in its internal design details and answers were very few and understandably the beta-testers weren't going to reveal anything as they were under strict NDA rules. Once one burning question finally got answered then five more urgent ones popped up and the inquiry cycle repeats! So i began peppering Oppo and was suprised and grateful that they were patient and eager to answer my many questions.

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post #2022 of 2807
11/3/12 at 12:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

Coris,
Do you modify all your components if possible?smile.gif

Well, if necessary... biggrin.gif Things can be better made sometimes... and the results can be better... But I`n not very sure about what you mean "all components"...
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post #2023 of 2807
11/3/12 at 12:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post





Y'all are very welcome:) ! My posts came out of my extreme curiosity in its internal design details and answers were very few and understandably the beta-testers weren't going to reveal anything as they were under strict NDA rules. Once one burning question finally got answered then five more urgent ones popped up and the inquiry cycle repeats! So i began peppering Oppo and was suprised and grateful that they were patient and eager to answer my many questions.

We can nominate/elect you as our spokesman in relation with Oppo...wink.gifbiggrin.gif
Good job!
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post #2024 of 2807
11/3/12 at 12:50am

... And for those who wondered by the ESATA port was removed from the 103/105, Oppo's answer was:

 

" ... eSATA was removed from the player as we found the read performance to be substandard and the lack of hot swap capabilities lowered the utility of the interface."
 

Sad for those with ESATA based drives who would like to buy these new players. They are out of luck, unless they buy external esata-to-usb converters which could have the possibility of complicating things further. I also thought the sustained data rates for ESATA were faster than USB 2.0?
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post #2025 of 2807
11/3/12 at 12:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coris View Post


We can nominate/elect you as our spokesman in relation with Oppo...wink.gifbiggrin.gif
Good job!

Uhhh ...  Nopebiggrin.gif!

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post #2026 of 2807
11/3/12 at 2:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

... And for those who wondered by the ESATA port was removed from the 103/105, Oppo's answer was:

" ... eSATA was removed from the player as we found the read performance to be substandard and the lack of hot swap capabilities lowered the utility of the interface."

 

I guess Oppo will come again with an correction for this answer... This statement here is fully wrong. The read capabilities of the eSATA port are substantial better than USB one. Faster and and lower jitter (less corrections on the way...) than USB. No interface/speed conversion SATA - USB needed. eSATA is hot swap also... This is actually the meaning of an eSATA port - hot swap!
One may find out if the new upgraded processor have actually capability for eSATA port. If yes, then removing of this input is unfortunate. If no, then is not so much to be done... I suspect the first alternative is positive...

I have to remark that it were some contradictory answers from Oppo in the last time:

AC coupling? Yes all our players are/were AC coupled... Wait a minute.. NO!
DAC channels allocation? .... and 2 channels goes to the GND... Wait a minute... NO!
eSATA hot swap capabilities? No, not hot swat capabilities... (correction to come...)
Edited by Coris - 11/3/12 at 2:11am
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post #2027 of 2807
11/3/12 at 2:36am
Can anyone with a 103 comment on how hot the player gets after an hour or 2 of playing a bluray disc? The 103 does not have any ventilation slots if I am not mistaken.
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post #2028 of 2807
11/3/12 at 3:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by scanspeak View Post

Can anyone with a 103 comment on how hot the player gets after an hour or 2 of playing a bluray disc? The 103 does not have any ventilation slots if I am not mistaken.

I have had my 103 on for hours playing all kinds of different discs and it hardly gets warm at all. The 93 did not have a fan or cooling slots as well and I never read of any heat related issues with it.

Bill
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post #2029 of 2807
11/3/12 at 4:16am
I apologise if this was already covered but I couldn't find it.

Could I connect an HD DVD player to the rear HDMI input on the 105 and use the DACs of the 105 to output the analogue sound track while continuing to pass the video through the HDMI output?
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post #2030 of 2807
11/3/12 at 5:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by scanspeak View Post

Can anyone with a 103 comment on how hot the player gets after an hour or 2 of playing a bluray disc? The 103 does not have any ventilation slots if I am not mistaken.

Been using the 103 for the whole day, and I even left it on overnight, no issues.
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post #2031 of 2807
11/3/12 at 5:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

... And for those who wondered by the ESATA port was removed from the 103/105, Oppo's answer was:

" ... eSATA was removed from the player as we found the read performance to be substandard and the lack of hot swap capabilities lowered the utility of the interface."

 

Sad for those with ESATA based drives who would like to buy these new players. They are out of luck, unless they buy external esata-to-usb converters which could have the possibility of complicating things further. I also thought the sustained data rates for ESATA were faster than USB 2.0?

I don't think Oppo was talking about speed. The controller chips for combined eSATA-USB cost more and tend to have issues. There were more than a few examples of incompatibility with external HDDs, unexpected issues, lack of port multiplying for multi-drive enclosures, etc. Oppo was able to offer more USB ports at the same price point, and eSATA's speed advantage has no value to a media player. IOW, not worth the trouble from either a performance standpoint or a customer support standpoint.
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post #2032 of 2807
11/3/12 at 5:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonStatt View Post

I apologise if this was already covered but I couldn't find it.

Could I connect an HD DVD player to the rear HDMI input on the 105 and use the DACs of the 105 to output the analogue sound track while continuing to pass the video through the HDMI output?

I haven't heard of that being tested, but it should work. Once the A/V is on the wire the player shouldn't care about the source.

The HD DVD player would have to produce audio the OPPO supports over HDMI. That means no DTS HD or Dolby TrueHD streamed. The source would have to covert those to LPCM or provide core tracks instead.

-Bill
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post #2033 of 2807
11/3/12 at 7:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

I don't think Oppo was talking about speed. The controller chips for combined eSATA-USB cost more and tend to have issues. There were more than a few examples of incompatibility with external HDDs, unexpected issues, lack of port multiplying for multi-drive enclosures, etc. Oppo was able to offer more USB ports at the same price point, and eSATA's speed advantage has no value to a media player. IOW, not worth the trouble from either a performance standpoint or a customer support standpoint.
OTOH, the SATA port -- as troublesome as it is -- was really useful. I have an eSATA/USB HDD sitting on top of the equipment
tower, with the USB port connected to the computer across the room and the eSATA conneted to the BDP-95 below it. This allows
me to load movies from the computer for watching through the BDP-95 and also occasionally watch movies on the computer,
using VLC. This is one of my concerns with upgrading to the BDP-105. (As an aside: I am not sure why the BDP-95 eSATA
port does not support hot swapping. I know nothing about the player internals and could be wrong, but suspect this feature
could have been implemented fairly easily.)

Another concern has to do with Cinavia that the BDP-105 is infected with. I do not keep DVDs and Blu-rays discs next to the
system. They are safely stored in the basement, in nice cardboard boxes. They were played just once, converted to MKV files
and stored on the HDD. This arrangement offers several advantages (for me). First, it saves me the physical space for disks
that I don't really have. Second, all movies are available from the comfort of my sofa. Third (and this is a huge one), I am not
bothered by trailers, commercials and the rest of the garbage -- these are all removed before reaching the HDD.

A final half concern is the degradation of SPDIF inputs to 96KHz. In effect, this means that the player does not have usable
(for me) SPDIF inputs. I would want those, since the eSATA port is gone.

I am a bit surprised no one else seems to be concerned with the above.

-- Ron
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post #2034 of 2807
11/3/12 at 8:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

I haven't heard of that being tested, but it should work. Once the A/V is on the wire the player shouldn't care about the source.
The HD DVD player would have to produce audio the OPPO supports over HDMI. That means no DTS HD or Dolby TrueHD streamed. The source would have to covert those to LPCM or provide core tracks instead.
-Bill

I still have about 30 or so HD DVDs which I don't want to part with, and the Toshiba player as far as I understand does indeed decode TrueHD etc to LPCM over HDMI. So it "should" be okay. It means I can eliminate my 5.1 analogue switcher and a bunch of cables at the same time smile.gif
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post #2035 of 2807
11/3/12 at 8:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ron12n View Post

OTOH, the SATA port -- as troublesome as it is -- was really useful. I have an eSATA/USB HDD sitting on top of the equipment
tower, with the USB port connected to the computer across the room and the eSATA conneted to the BDP-95 below it. This allows
me to load movies from the computer for watching through the BDP-95 and also occasionally watch movies on the computer,
using VLC. This is one of my concerns with upgrading to the BDP-105. (As an aside: I am not sure why the BDP-95 eSATA
port does not support hot swapping. I know nothing about the player internals and could be wrong, but suspect this feature
could have been implemented fairly easily.)
Another concern has to do with Cinavia that the BDP-105 is infected with. I do not keep DVDs and Blu-rays discs next to the
system. They are safely stored in the basement, in nice cardboard boxes. They were played just once, converted to MKV files
and stored on the HDD. This arrangement offers several advantages (for me). First, it saves me the physical space for disks
that I don't really have. Second, all movies are available from the comfort of my sofa. Third (and this is a huge one), I am not
bothered by trailers, commercials and the rest of the garbage -- these are all removed before reaching the HDD.
A final half concern is the degradation of SPDIF inputs to 96KHz. In effect, this means that the player does not have usable
(for me) SPDIF inputs. I would want those, since the eSATA port is gone.
I am a bit surprised no one else seems to be concerned with the above.
-- Ron

If you read through this whole thread and the one for the 103, you will see that these topics have been thoroughly discussed.
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post #2036 of 2807
11/3/12 at 9:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ron12n View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

I don't think Oppo was talking about speed. The controller chips for combined eSATA-USB cost more and tend to have issues. There were more than a few examples of incompatibility with external HDDs, unexpected issues, lack of port multiplying for multi-drive enclosures, etc. Oppo was able to offer more USB ports at the same price point, and eSATA's speed advantage has no value to a media player. IOW, not worth the trouble from either a performance standpoint or a customer support standpoint.
OTOH, the SATA port -- as troublesome as it is -- was really useful. I have an eSATA/USB HDD sitting on top of the equipment
tower, with the USB port connected to the computer across the room and the eSATA conneted to the BDP-95 below it. This allows
me to load movies from the computer for watching through the BDP-95 and also occasionally watch movies on the computer,
using VLC. This is one of my concerns with upgrading to the BDP-105. (As an aside: I am not sure why the BDP-95 eSATA
port does not support hot swapping. I know nothing about the player internals and could be wrong, but suspect this feature
could have been implemented fairly easily.)

Another concern has to do with Cinavia that the BDP-105 is infected with. I do not keep DVDs and Blu-rays discs next to the
system. They are safely stored in the basement, in nice cardboard boxes. They were played just once, converted to MKV files
and stored on the HDD. This arrangement offers several advantages (for me). First, it saves me the physical space for disks
that I don't really have. Second, all movies are available from the comfort of my sofa. Third (and this is a huge one), I am not
bothered by trailers, commercials and the rest of the garbage -- these are all removed before reaching the HDD.

A final half concern is the degradation of SPDIF inputs to 96KHz. In effect, this means that the player does not have usable
(for me) SPDIF inputs. I would want those, since the eSATA port is gone.

I am a bit surprised no one else seems to be concerned with the above.

-- Ron

The USB DAC and the two HDMI Inputs on the 105 are all capable of 192KHz LPCM 2.0.

Since there are only a handful of discs shipped at the moment bearing the Cinavia watermark, odds are the vast majority of your current collection will be unaffected by Cinavia. For the future, we'll have to see.

Somehow, I think someone clever enough to figure out your eSATA/USB combo drive setup will be able to figure out a dual USB solution -- presuming you can't just turn it around and run the eSATA side to your computer. Just another of the little challenges that come with upgrading. biggrin.gif
--Bob
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post #2037 of 2807
11/3/12 at 9:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ron12n View Post

OTOH, the SATA port -- as troublesome as it is -- was really useful. I have an eSATA/USB HDD sitting on top of the equipment
tower, with the USB port connected to the computer across the room and the eSATA conneted to the BDP-95 below it. This allows
me to load movies from the computer for watching through the BDP-95 and also occasionally watch movies on the computer,
using VLC. This is one of my concerns with upgrading to the BDP-105. (As an aside: I am not sure why the BDP-95 eSATA
port does not support hot swapping. I know nothing about the player internals and could be wrong, but suspect this feature
could have been implemented fairly easily.)

I wonder if you're failing to consider that with SMB support, its possible you don't need to connect any HDD to the Oppo at all.
Quote:
Another concern has to do with Cinavia that the BDP-105 is infected with. I do not keep DVDs and Blu-rays discs next to the
system. They are safely stored in the basement, in nice cardboard boxes. They were played just once, converted to MKV files
and stored on the HDD.

Then Cinavia is of no concern to you at all, at least not yet.
Quote:
A final half concern is the degradation of SPDIF inputs to 96KHz. In effect, this means that the player does not have usable
(for me) SPDIF inputs. I would want those, since the eSATA port is gone.
I am a bit surprised no one else seems to be concerned with the above.
-- Ron

Not sure what you would need to use the SPDIF input for, what device do you have with support for 24/192 output over SPDIF? Again consider the SMB support in the player.
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post #2038 of 2807
11/3/12 at 10:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post





Y'all are very welcome:) ! My posts came out of my extreme curiosity in its internal design details and answers were very few and understandably the beta-testers weren't going to reveal anything as they were under strict NDA rules. Once one burning question finally got answered then five more urgent ones popped up and the inquiry cycle repeats! So i began peppering Oppo and was suprised and grateful that they were patient and eager to answer my many questions.

I don't know of any other manufacturer that would taken the time to answer such questions let alone in such detail. Oppo was really under no obligation to discuss (justify) their design coniderations and the fact that some actaully challenged their design as though no thought had went into the BDP-105.eek.gif
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post #2039 of 2807
11/3/12 at 10:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coris View Post

Well, if necessary... biggrin.gif Things can be better made sometimes... and the results can be better... But I`n not very sure about what you mean "all components"...

I meant to say transports. Sorry about that!smile.gif And I agree that sometimes things can be made better but of course at a price. Modders seem to like Oppo products in this manner, but I am glad that Oppo puts out a solid product at fair price and those who want to get more out of it can do so at their own expense.biggrin.gif
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post #2040 of 2807
11/3/12 at 10:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bakerwi View Post

I don't know of any other manufacturer that would taken the time to answer such questions let alone in such detail. Oppo was really under no obligation to discuss (justify) their design coniderations and the fact that some actaully challenged their design as though no thought had went into the BDP-105.eek.gif

It's internet company.
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