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Official OPPO BDP-103/BDP-105 Anticipation Thread - Page 86

post #2551 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coris View Post

Sorry for just say so, but this about electronics burn in is only stupid...
The meaning with "burn in" is about mechanical things, systems, mechanisms. Those mechanic systems needs a kind of adaptation in between the pieces which are in movements against each other. This because (special in the past) it was/is not possible to dimension all the pieces of a machine with enough precision, so that the machine, or system should function as it should. This still be a procedure for motors and cars... and as it were pointed in a post above, for speakers, headphones and so. There are some mechanical movements in such cases and an adaptation of the materials to those movements is necessary, before the best result of that movement come out...
What it would be necessary a burn in for '"all electronics" ? It may be necessary such to that electrons be adapted to the wires, to resistors, capacitors, chips, and so on, they goes through? Will those electrons goes smoother inside the metals after such process? What will be the result that electrons goes smother through electronic components? Will be a better sound at the output? Will be a better picture on the display? DEFINITELY NOT!
This kind of burn in for "all electronics" is only a myth based on mechanical theories... Just wrong and stupid! Sorry for the fans of burn in....

I agree with you about burn in of consumer electronics. By the time consumer electronics (not mechanical systems, as you mention) reaches our hands, it should be stable.

There is a real electronics burn in that is done and is crucial during the manufacturing process of electronic components to ferret out failed or failing chips before the completed assembly goes out the door to the customer.

The failure of components during this burn in period is significant enough that stress tests are devised to flush out the bad components. My experience with this is in computer manufacturing, but the principle remains the same.

Electronic burn in is an issue, but most of the problems have probably been fleshed out by the time a new Oppo is in your hands.
post #2552 of 2827
I have put most of my movies and music in two large hard drives DVD’s in VOB Files and Music in FLAC they are connected to a WD TV Live media player the player is connected to my Pre-Pro I use HDMI for video and the Optical out for 2 channel.
I will be upgrading my Pre-Pro to one that has fully Balanced inputs.
First would the Oppo 103 up scale better then the WD TV Live if I connect the WD HDMI Out to the 103's HDMI IN and set the WD output to 480P?
Second would there be any advantage in getting the 105 over the 103 for 2 channel music by connecting the WD Optical Out to the 105's Optical In and using the stereo out to the pre-pro.
post #2553 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by vermont99 View Post

I have put most of my movies and music in two large hard drives DVD’s in VOB Files and Music in FLAC they are connected to a WD TV Live media player the player is connected to my Pre-Pro I use HDMI for video and the Optical out for 2 channel.

I will be upgrading my Pre-Pro to one that has fully Balanced inputs.
First would the Oppo 103 up scale better then the WD TV Live if I connect the WD HDMI Out to the 103's HDMI IN and set the WD output to 480P?
Second would there be any advantage in getting the 105 over the 103 for 2 channel music by connecting the WD Optical Out to the 105's Optical In and using the stereo out to the pre-pro.

Scaling of DVD content is 90% de-interlacing and 10% scaling, in terms of visible quality. The WD will not output 480i so any benefits will be very small. However the Oppo will be better at rendering the DVD content, no question. The Oppo will do most everything that the WD does, except support VIDEO_TS folders. It does however play VOB files like any other media file.

There's nothing to be gained from routing the audio files through the Oppo and then to the pre-pro.

So I'd consider bypassing the WD player completely or just running them parallel. The 103 is more than adequate for your needs.
post #2554 of 2827
Thanks I'll be getting the 103.
post #2555 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by hernanu View Post

I agree with you about burn in of consumer electronics. By the time consumer electronics (not mechanical systems, as you mention) reaches our hands, it should be stable.
There is a real electronics burn in that is done and is crucial during the manufacturing process of electronic components to ferret out failed or failing chips before the completed assembly goes out the door to the customer.
The failure of components during this burn in period is significant enough that stress tests are devised to flush out the bad components. My experience with this is in computer manufacturing, but the principle remains the same.
Electronic burn in is an issue, but most of the problems have probably been fleshed out by the time a new Oppo is in your hands.

The testing process which is happen on fabrications lines is a real "burn in"... That is a part of endurance testes, or just usually tests of an final product. Those tests are meant to reveal the issues in the fabrication process, or on the final product. Such tests are not meant to improve the quality of each finished electronic product (which it must function at the targeted parameters from the very first beginning of its life). Those burn in tests help the manufacturer to find better ways of fabrication, better components, design solutions, and so on. The burn in tests increase the possibility of occurred issues in a quite short functioning time of a device, and prevent that the user himself will reveal those issues later in that product functioning life (well, at least not in the warranty period...)... In many cases such burn in tests are statistic. I mean one of few/many others similar products are chosen to be tested so, and the conclusions are statistic related to whole batch.
Here in the forum it come out from some posts that users think the "burn in" will bring better quality after such process. This is just wrong.
A burn in process for an computer (f. ex.) it mean to find the functioning limits of the machine (processor, etc), and to reveal possible issues (in the most cases for overclocking purposes). Is definitely not meant to direct improve that computer quality/performances...
In motors, cars, or another mechanical system world, such burn in process it take very long time (is not possible to be done as a part of fabrication, and it really improve the quality of that product (in time). This is just another story...
Edited by Coris - 11/18/12 at 2:28pm
post #2556 of 2827
Quick question guys: if I plan not to use the analog audio outputs of the BDP-103 or BDP-105... is there ANY advantage to buying the BDP-103 vs the BDP-105 (cost aside)?

Including theoretical, practical, anything and everything is fair game. Power supply, transport, casing thickness, et cetera.

I have a separate Pre-Amp/Processor that I'm very happy with, and will use the DACs from that unit.

Please let me know.

I have an 'ancient' Oppo DV-981HD - and am finally stepping up to Blu-Ray... redface.gif
Edited by TheSlowDown - 11/18/12 at 5:34pm
post #2557 of 2827
Thread Starter 
Yes, you would want to use the BDP-103 in your setup. This is the best player for your buck if you are using it as a digital transport.
post #2558 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSlowDown View Post

Quick question guys: if I plan not to use the analog audio outputs of the BDP-103 or BDP-105... is there ANY advantage to buying the BDP-103 vs the BDP-105 (cost aside)?
Including theoretical, practical, anything and everything is fair game. Power supply, transport, casing thickness, et cetera.
I have a separate Pre-Amp/Processor that I'm very happy with, and will use the DACs from that unit.
Please let me know.
I have an 'ancient' Oppo DV-981HD - and am finally stepping up to Blu-Ray... redface.gif
The ONLY advantage to buying the 103 versus the 105 is that it's less expensive. I guess there is another advantage in that the 103 isn't as tall as the 105, so it can fit in a smaller space if vertical space in your equipment rack is an issue. For your use though, there's no advantage to buying the 105 as you won't be using the analog audio outputs.
post #2559 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSlowDown View Post

Quick question guys: if I plan not to use the analog audio outputs of the BDP-103 or BDP-105... is there ANY advantage to buying the BDP-103 vs the BDP-105 (cost aside)?

Including theoretical, practical, anything and everything is fair game. Power supply, transport, casing thickness, et cetera.

I have a separate Pre-Amp/Processor that I'm very happy with, and will use the DACs from that unit.

Please let me know.

I have an 'ancient' Oppo DV-981HD - and am finally stepping up to Blu-Ray... redface.gif

The BDP-105 is heavier. Don't let this happen to you:

avdeco1smallzt1.jpg

-Bill
post #2560 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

The BDP-105 is heavier. Don't let this happen to you:
avdeco1smallzt1.jpg
-Bill
Yikes!!!eek.gif
What happened besides the obvious?
post #2561 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

The BDP-105 is heavier. Don't let this happen to you:
avdeco1smallzt1.jpg
-Bill
No - that was the result of someone playing a Nintendo Wii game (haven't you seen the Southwest Airlines "wanna get away" commercials?). Obviously, the TV parts were already picked up before the photo was taken. If that had been a 105 on the top shelf, the lower shelves would have broken too. biggrin.gif
post #2562 of 2827
post #2563 of 2827
On-Topic:

Thanks guys, looks like I should get the BDP-103.

Off-Topic:

Also, thanks for opening my eyes on the glass shelves. eek.gif Never though of the safety aspects before - only looked at load ratings.

My Onkyo 'reference revival' equipment would not be happy crashing through shelves, and is very heavy!

I have some VTI glass shelves for a few years now without a problem.

Still, I'll have to rig something to catch the equipment if it falls through the glass (might be able to do this without it being visible as I have black glass shelves) - or just replace the shelves with wood.

- TSD
=====
post #2564 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

I think the Analog output from the 105 sounds better than the 93 (I never had a 95).
The basic functionality of the Analog output of the 105 is almost identical to the 95. The most important difference is in how attenuation is handled for the Subwoofer output of the multi-channel set. (This is true for the 103 as well). In the 95, +15dB of boost was needed regardless of the settings in the player. The idea was to apply that external to the player. If all speakers were set to Large (thus no bass steering due to Crossover processing), 5dB of that attenuation was not actually needed for clipping safety, and so you could safely apply +5dB volume trim to the Subwoofer output in the player, and thus only need +10dB additional boost external to the player.
In the 103/105, if all speakers are Large (or Off), then the multi-channel Analog Subwoofer output needs +10dB boost external to the player to match the other outputs. This is the standard attenuation for LFE. This is also the case during DSD-Direct-to-Analog-Conversion playback of SACD discs, since speakers are treated AS IF they were large in that case (since no processing is possible when DSD is sent to the DACs).
If any speakers are set to Small, and you are NOT sending DSD to the DACs, then the multi-channel Analog Subwoofer output needs +15dB boost external to the player to match the other outputs. This is the standard attenuation for LFE plus an additional 5dB attenuation to provide headroom for bass steered into the Subwoofer output from those Small speakers (i.e., due to the functioning of the Crossover).
Now, there are other audio improvements in the 103/105 which carry over to the Analog outputs. For example, the decoder in the 103/105 is more fully featured. Additional media file formats are handled, and certain limitations of the decoder in the 93/95 no longer exist. E.g., the rare, DTS-HD MA 192KHz 5.1 track format actually gets decoded as 192KHz (rather than 96KHz as happens in the 93/95).
And the new players have INPUTS that you can use to get digital audio decoded and played through the Analog outputs of the player.
The new players are also FASTER, which helps minimize the gap between the end of one media file and the start of the next.
And the new players have subsidiary application support such as 5.1 output from Netflix streams.
And the new players are DLNA Digital Media Renderers -- meaning you can "push" file streams to them using the UI on your favorite DLNA server.
So there are other audio-related advantages to the newer players beyond simple comparison of audio output quality.
--Bob

"And the new players have INPUTS that you can use to get digital audio decoded and played through the Analog outputs of the player."

True, but the digital inputs on the 105 will only work with stereo. You will not get surrounds out of the analog and I think that is a real shame..
post #2565 of 2827
^ Not correct. The HDMI Inputs on both players, and the optical and coax S/PDIF Inputs on the 105 all accept multi-channel digital audio.
--Bob
post #2566 of 2827
Yes, the optical input accepts multi channel audio but will only send out stereo
post #2567 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardia View Post

Yes, the optical input accepts multi channel audio but will only send out stereo

WOW! I hope you're wrong. You mean if we take the optical output from a DirecTV or cable box and connect it to the Oppo's optical input then we only get stereo? We don't get Dolby Digital multi-channel or Pro-Logic? Same with the HDMI input? That would suck! Can anyone confirm this???
post #2568 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardia View Post

Yes, the optical input accepts multi channel audio but will only send out stereo

I hope this is wrong. This is the main reason for me to go to from the 95 to the 105.

Can one of the beta testers or owners give us a definitive statement about this please.
post #2569 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by classicrecording View Post

I hope this is wrong. This is the main reason for me to go to from the 95 to the 105.
Can one of the beta testers or owners give us a definitive statement about this please.

I'll double check in a sec (that Neo6 wasn't turned on or something) but I'm pretty sure last night I was watching the Mentalist PVRed via Shaw Cable Motorola Cable box -->> HDMI -->> back HDMI input on BDP103 -->> Analog outputs direct to power amps/powered monitors and it was 5.1
post #2570 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardia View Post

Yes, the optical input accepts multi channel audio but will only send out stereo

Also not correct. Multi-channel input in the Optical/Coax Inputs of the 105 (which must necessarily be DD or DTS Bitstream) will go out as multi-channel on all the audio outputs of the 105. Of course you will get a down mix to stereo if using the Dedicated Stereo Analog outputs in their default configuration or if using the Optical/Coax S/PDIF outputs set to LPCM. (Optical/Coax only carry multi-Channel when set to Bitstream. S/PDIF does not carry multi-channel LPCM.)
--Bob
post #2571 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by HowardV View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardia View Post

Yes, the optical input accepts multi channel audio but will only send out stereo

WOW! I hope you're wrong. You mean if we take the optical output from a DirecTV or cable box and connect it to the Oppo's optical input then we only get stereo? We don't get Dolby Digital multi-channel or Pro-Logic? Same with the HDMI input? That would suck! Can anyone confirm this???

Not to worry. Multi-channel in AND out works.
--Bob
post #2572 of 2827
Thank you to those who cleared this up.
post #2573 of 2827
In the US, both MusicDirect.com and AudioAdvisor.com now show the BDP-105 as "In Stock":

http://www.musicdirect.com/p-107530-oppo-bdp-105-universal-blu-ray-player.aspx

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=OPBDP105

Crutchfield is still stating shipping date unknown. It's not clear whether they simply haven't updated their site yet today, or, perhaps, are holding off until after they can clear the Black Friday crunch. (They are taking Pre-Orders.)

Magnolia AV has not made the transition from the older, 93/95 players yet.
--Bob
post #2574 of 2827
Hi Bob
I suppose the beta testers it may send back that tested machine. Is this right (I just do not know how this works...)? If is this right, then may I ask if you will buy an 105 player when it will be available? Thanks for an answer.
post #2575 of 2827
^ Sorry. The First Rule of Beta Test Club is that, "You Do Not Talk About Beta Test Club!"

As for buying recommendations, this is a tough one. With the 93/95 the answer was simple: Get a 93 unless you are now, or think you might become, serious about a purely Analog audio path.

With the 103/105, that analysis has changed due to the headphone output and extra, digital audio inputs. E.g., computer to Asynchronous USB DAC to HDMI out to Anthem D2v.

I will see how that develops before I settle on recommendations.
--Bob
post #2576 of 2827
For those still concerned about multi-channel IN and OUT using the HDMI Inputs or the Optical/Coax Inputs I just re-checked all the combos and everything is working as it is supposed to.

I used an OPPO BDP-93 as the Source. HDMI 1 from the 93 is connected to the Rear HDMI Input of the 105. Coax Digital Audio Out from the 93 is also connected to Coax Digital Audio Input of the 105.

Meanwhile the 105 is cabled for HDMI 1 output, multi-channel Analog output, and Optical Digital audio output to my Anthem Statement D2v.

I used the DD 5.1 and DTS 5.1 test tracks from Disney's "WOW World of Wonder", SD-DVD, calibration disc as test content.

If the 93 is set to send Bitstream on HDMI and on Optical/Coax, and the 105 is set to send Bitstream out on Optical/Coax, then the 105 sees the 5.1 Bitstream input (DD or DTS) on either the HDMI Input or the Coax Input, and produces 5.1 audio output on HDMI, multi-channel Analog, and Optical Digital.

Now S/PDIF connections (Optical and Coax) can not carry multi-channel LPCM. So if you set the 105's Optical/Coax output to LPCM, then you will get 2.0 LPCM output -- a stereo down mix.

Similarly if you set the 93's Optical/Coax output to LPCM, then it will send 2.0 LPCM to the 105 -- again, a stereo down mix -- and thus the 105 will output stereo on HDMI, Analog, and Optical/Coax.

The only real potential for confusion here is if the 93 is set to send LPCM on HDMI (i.e, decode the DD 5.1 or DTS 5.1 disc content to 5.1 LPCM for HDMI output). In that case the 105, will see 5.1 LPCM input on the Rear HDMI Input, and will produce 5.1 output for HDMI and for multi-channel Analog. But the 105 does not RE-encode LPCM input to Bitstream output for output on Optical/Coax. So even if Optical/Coax on the 105 are set to Bitstream, if the input is LPCM, then the output on those will also be LPCM -- and thus stereo due to the way S/PDIF cabling works. So you get the 5.1 LPCM HDMI input down mixed to 2.0 LPCM for output on Optical/Coax.

I.e., if you want multi-channel out on Optical/Coax then they must be set to Bitstream for output and the audio source input must also be Bitstream.

If you are using HDMI or multi-channel Analog for output from the 105, then all you need to do is make sure the input (HDMI or S/PDIF) is multi-channel to begin with.

Again, this all as it is supposed to be.

*ONLY* the Asynchronous USB DAC Input on the 105 is limited to stereo input.
--Bob
post #2577 of 2827
The OPPO BDP-105 is now available for general sales Pre-Order on OPPO Digital's web site "Store" page, with an estimated ship date of November 26:

http://www.oppodigital.com/products.asp

The Rack Mount Kit for the OPPO BDP-105 is also now available for general sale.

If you received an "invitation to purchase" email from OPPO due to previously registering on OPPO's Interest List, I believe that means they already have a unit in hand to ship to you -- i.e., without having to wait another week.
--Bob
post #2578 of 2827
question on the digital inputs. If I run a CD player as a transport through the optical input or a laptop through the USB input and play two channel music, will I get a signal from my subwoofer using the 7.1 analog outputs on the BDP-105? In other words, is there internal bass management if I use the player as a DAC?
post #2579 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryGreek View Post

question on the digital inputs. If I run a CD player as a transport through the optical input or a laptop through the USB input and play two channel music, will I get a signal from my subwoofer using the 7.1 analog outputs on the BDP-105? In other words, is there internal bass management if I use the player as a DAC?

Yes, for both. (Set LF/RF to "Small", Subwoofer to "ON", and pick a Crossover frequency.)
--Bob
post #2580 of 2827
Thanks for the response. Can the 105 be used as a preamp? My plan is to run my cable box through the optical input, my laptop through the USB input (for music), blu-ray/dvd from the unit itself and call it a day.
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