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Official OPPO BDP-103/BDP-105 Anticipation Thread - Page 87

post #2581 of 2827
^ Many folks are trying this. Obviously it has some limits, such as no Analog inputs. And it always powers up set for shiny disc playback rather than for use of an input.
--Bob
post #2582 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

For those still concerned about multi-channel IN and OUT using the HDMI Inputs or the Optical/Coax Inputs I just re-checked all the combos and everything is working as it is supposed to.
I used an OPPO BDP-93 as the Source. HDMI 1 from the 93 is connected to the Rear HDMI Input of the 105. Coax Digital Audio Out from the 93 is also connected to Coax Digital Audio Input of the 105.
Meanwhile the 105 is cabled for HDMI 1 output, multi-channel Analog output, and Optical Digital audio output to my Anthem Statement D2v.
I used the DD 5.1 and DTS 5.1 test tracks from Disney's "WOW World of Wonder", SD-DVD, calibration disc as test content.
If the 93 is set to send Bitstream on HDMI and on Optical/Coax, and the 105 is set to send Bitstream out on Optical/Coax, then the 105 sees the 5.1 Bitstream input (DD or DTS) on either the HDMI Input or the Coax Input, and produces 5.1 audio output on HDMI, multi-channel Analog, and Optical Digital.
Now S/PDIF connections (Optical and Coax) can not carry multi-channel LPCM. So if you set the 105's Optical/Coax output to LPCM, then you will get 2.0 LPCM output -- a stereo down mix.
Similarly if you set the 93's Optical/Coax output to LPCM, then it will send 2.0 LPCM to the 105 -- again, a stereo down mix -- and thus the 105 will output stereo on HDMI, Analog, and Optical/Coax.
The only real potential for confusion here is if the 93 is set to send LPCM on HDMI (i.e, decode the DD 5.1 or DTS 5.1 disc content to 5.1 LPCM for HDMI output). In that case the 105, will see 5.1 LPCM input on the Rear HDMI Input, and will produce 5.1 output for HDMI and for multi-channel Analog. But the 105 does not RE-encode LPCM input to Bitstream output for output on Optical/Coax. So even if Optical/Coax on the 105 are set to Bitstream, if the input is LPCM, then the output on those will also be LPCM -- and thus stereo due to the way S/PDIF cabling works. So you get the 5.1 LPCM HDMI input down mixed to 2.0 LPCM for output on Optical/Coax.
I.e., if you want multi-channel out on Optical/Coax then they must be set to Bitstream for output and the audio source input must also be Bitstream.
If you are using HDMI or multi-channel Analog for output from the 105, then all you need to do is make sure the input (HDMI or S/PDIF) is multi-channel to begin with.
Again, this all as it is supposed to be.
*ONLY* the Asynchronous USB DAC Input on the 105 is limited to stereo input.
--Bob

 

Thanks for confirming and clearing up the confusion over this issue. So  what happens if :

 

1.  The Oppo receives a lossless MCH digital signal on its HDMI input, what will the HDMI output be if the input was Bitstream or LPCM?

 

2.  If i have a lossless MCH signal on the USB DAC input, the output will only be stereo? No MCH output from a USB DAC MCH input? 

 

3.  When you get a chance, can you compare the AQ between HDMI and Analog signal inputs using your D2v? I'm curious to know if you can hear any differences between the two types of inputs.

 

- David

post #2583 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Thanks for confirming and clearing up the confusion over this issue. So  what happens if :

1.  The Oppo receives a lossless MCH digital signal on its HDMI input, what will the HDMI output be if the input was Bitstream or LPCM?

2.  If i have a lossless MCH signal on the USB DAC input, the output will only be stereo? No MCH output from a USB DAC MCH input? 

3.  When you get a chance, can you compare the AQ between HDMI and Analog signal inputs using your D2v? I'm curious to know if you can hear any differences between the two types of inputs.

- David

1) If the HDMI Input is LPCM, then the HDMI output is LPCM. If the HDMI Input is Bitstream, then the HDMI output is Bitstream or LPCM according to the HDMI Audio setting in the OPPO. Please note that the HDMI Inputs do not accept TrueHD or DTS-HD MA Bitstreams. So if you want high bit rate audio, the thing to do is send multi-channel LPCM to the HDMI Inputs (up to 192KHz 24-bit for up to 5.1 LPCM input, and up to 96KHz 24-bit for 7.1 LPCM input).

2) As stated, input on the Asynchronous USB DAC is 2.0 LPCM. Only. You could, I suppose, apply the DTS Neo:6 processing to Asynchronous USB DAC Input. But DAMN! Why would you want to?

3) In my testing, I find the multi-channel Analog and HDMI LPCM input identical through my D2v for up to 5.1 content. For 7.1 content, the D2v does not accept 7.1 Analog input, whereas it DOES accept 7.1 LPCM, so there will be differences due to the down-mix. As previously stated, I have the D2v do all of the speaker configuration, bass management, and room correction heavy lifting for either type of input.
--Bob
Edited by Bob Pariseau - 11/20/12 at 11:45pm
post #2584 of 2827
When will we see a U.S release modified player's?
post #2585 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by oddmania View Post

When will we see a U.S release modified player's?

If you mean "Region Free" modifications, the first sellers have already listed them here and there, but we don't have any reports yet here on how well the modifications are working.

Just in case you don't know, OPPO can not sell Region Free players, so the necessary hardware modifications to make them Blu-ray Region Free come from other companies.

The folks who made the most popular such modifications for the 93/95 look like they are just about ready to ship their mods, if that hasn't happened already.

Just keep an eye out in the owner's threads for the 103 and 105. When folks actually start taking delivery of modified players, or install-it-yourself mod kits, there will be plenty of posts about them.
--Bob
post #2586 of 2827
I'm surprised that people complain about fan noise of the BDP-95. Fan noise never bothered me a bit. However, what is a bit frustrating with the 95 is the infernal relay click. Of course it does not click while watching a movie, but when starting a movie all that clicking really is getting on my nerves...

Has this been improved in the 105, or is the relay clicking just as frequent and loud as in the 95?
post #2587 of 2827
I have both 103 and 105 now (105 just arrived yesterday).

I'm looking to use them both as AV pre-amps.

Here's my dilema - i use a squeezebox and MOG for music.

I can use a squeezebox and output via toslink/spdif to the 105 - excellent(still ike the squeeze interface and so far have not found a way for Oppos to do playlists, streaming stations like KCRW natively).

But with the 103 I can't do this.

So I either need:

a toslink/SPDIF to HDMI converter. I've looked into these - they are available for $35 but they all seem to offer a component+toslink/spdif to HDMI conversion - they NEED that video layer apparently.

Another option is to get a newer TV with MOG or Plex (and then create a MOG channel in Plex) builtin and send that digital audio back to the Oppo 103 via HDMI - will this work?

Third option - return the 103 and get a 105 for the living room and feed digital via toslink from the squeezebox to the 105. $$$

4th option - a Roku stick.

Any other options I'm missing? Or does anyone know of an HDMI converter that can work without a video signal?

I loaded up the Beta firmware last night and they have new services added. So of course I sent off my vote to Oppo HQ for MOG and Plex to be added to the supported services.

Fingers crossed.
post #2588 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoomin View Post

I have both 103 and 105 now (105 just arrived yesterday).
I'm looking to use them both as AV pre-amps.
Here's my dilema - i use a squeezebox and MOG for music.
I can use a squeezebox and output via toslink/spdif to the 105 - excellent(still ike the squeeze interface and so far have not found a way for Oppos to do playlists, streaming stations like KCRW natively).
But with the 103 I can't do this.
So I either need:
a toslink/SPDIF to HDMI converter. I've looked into these - they are available for $35 but they all seem to offer a component+toslink/spdif to HDMI conversion - they NEED that video layer apparently. ...

Odds are that the unit has a small internal 2 metal prong for coax RCA out, but they chose to only put on the external Toslink connector.

FWIW PC mobo makers sell converters like this as rear brackets for less than $35. So one option is to find and buy one of those.

But first just open up the unit and make sure that it actually has a small internal 2 metal prong for coax RCA out.

If you have any soldering skills you can make your own cable.

If you do it yourself, take *one* of the two wires from any stereo analog RCA interconnect and cut off one end. I personally prefer a "video" RG-6 for connecting a roof top antenna (great double shield (braid and foil) and solid center copper), but due to the solid center it's less flexible.

Take an old computer that you're about to junk and pull the front panel wires out as these have the small 2 prong female connector (which connect to the mobo) that you need, along with the attached small twisted pair wire.

Or find a nearby small computer shop and they'll likely make one for less than $35.
post #2589 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by OtherSongs View Post

Odds are that the unit has a small internal 2 metal prong for coax RCA out, but they chose to only put on the external Toslink connector.
FWIW PC mobo makers sell converters like this as rear brackets for less than $35. So one option is to find and buy one of those.
But first just open up the unit and make sure that it actually has a small internal 2 metal prong for coax RCA out.
If you have any soldering skills you can make your own cable.
If you do it yourself, take *one* of the two wires from any stereo analog RCA interconnect and cut off one end. I personally prefer a "video" RG-6 for connecting a roof top antenna (great double shield (braid and foil) and solid center copper), but due to the solid center it's less flexible.
Take an old computer that you're about to junk and pull the front panel wires out as these have the small 2 prong female connector (which connect to the mobo) that you need, along with the attached small twisted pair wire.
Or find a nearby small computer shop and they'll likely make one for less than $35.

I think you're talking about altering the converter unit I mentioned?

The one I was looking at is this one

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10114&cs_id=1011406&p_id=5971&seq=1&format=2

But the problem is not that its toslink or digital coax - it's that it apparently needs a video signal via the component inputs as well as audio to create the hdmi stream.

My squeezebox of course is just an AUDIO device.
post #2590 of 2827
Thread Starter 
You can always feed it a dummy video signal from another device, like a cable box, so the system thinks that there is a video signal so it can generate the HDMI signal.
post #2591 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

You can always feed it a dummy video signal from another device, like a cable box, so the system thinks that there is a video signal so it can generate the HDMI signal.

Good point - I might try that.
post #2592 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoomin View Post

I think you're talking about altering the converter unit I mentioned?
The one I was looking at is this one
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10114&cs_id=1011406&p_id=5971&seq=1&format=2
But the problem is not that its toslink or digital coax - it's that it apparently needs a video signal via the component inputs as well as audio to create the hdmi stream.
My squeezebox of course is just an AUDIO device.

May be my mistake; if so sorry.

FWIW Toslink and coax RCA (both for digital audio) are two sides of the same coin. And converting from one to the other is simple and cheap.

As far as I know, most people don't know that.
post #2593 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by OtherSongs View Post

May be my mistake; if so sorry.
FWIW Toslink and coax RCA (both for digital audio) are two sides of the same coin. And converting from one to the other is simple and cheap.
As far as I know, most people don't know that.

thanks - that is good to keep in mind.

I think all Squeezeboxes have both toslink and coax digital outputs - mine do anyway.
post #2594 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by onesolo View Post

As usual, Oppo like to screw european consumers with their products...
I would love to know why here in Europe, this player is being charge around €650/700 (I already saw some stores with this price) and the in US the MSRP is $500 !!!!
When doing conversions it costs about €385 !!! More than €300 of difference!!!
And don't give me that old excuse of price without taxes... if you take the taxes from the EU price, it would be around €550, not even close to the $500 in US
Are we so that different who lives in USA to deserve this?!?

At least we can have the Cambridge 751BD for 50% of the price of the Oppo BDP-105 here in Denmark :-)
post #2595 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Webmonkey View Post

At least we can have the Cambridge 751BD for 50% of the price of the Oppo BDP-105 here in Denmark :-)

Here the Cambridge 751BD is the same price as the BD-105. It is hard to imagine that they will be selling many since the Oppo has so many advantages.
post #2596 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Webmonkey View Post

At least we can have the Cambridge 751BD for 50% of the price of the Oppo BDP-105 here in Denmark :-)

The Cambridge 751BD is based on the Oppo 93EU. So it's not the equivalent of the BDP-105 or the 103, but a generation behind. It has a great reputation, as a player based on an Oppo should, but if you look at its value, it is rightly priced, since the 93 is now selling used for between 400 to 700 US.

The BDP-103 is selling for 499 new.
post #2597 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by ehlarson View Post

Here the Cambridge 751BD is the same price as the BD-105. It is hard to imagine that they will be selling many since the Oppo has so many advantages.

I have no idea why we are asked to pay 1900$ for the BDP-105 here... and 916$ for the 751BD :-(
post #2598 of 2827
I would assume that import duties as well as taxes are the principal factors. Oppos would be imported goods throughout Europe. In addition, the number of units imported is fairly small, adding to the costs. As was noted, we see somewhat the same thing in North America with things like British loudspeakers which cost much more here than in the UK and probably elsewhere in the EU.

I knew a man from Denmark a decade or so ago and he said that everything cost much more in Denmark. Equivalent cars were about twice the U.S. price.
post #2599 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by JazzGuyy View Post

I would assume that import duties as well as taxes are the principal factors. Oppos would be imported goods throughout Europe. In addition, the number of units imported is fairly small, adding to the costs. As was noted, we see somewhat the same thing in North America with things like British loudspeakers which cost much more here than in the UK and probably elsewhere in the EU.
I knew a man from Denmark a decade or so ago and he said that everything cost much more in Denmark. Equivalent cars were about twice the U.S. price.

Twice is not going to cut it... On my first trip to the US - Detroit to be specific - I almost gave a retired police officer a heart attack, after showing him that his new Mustang which he paid 38000$ for, would cost him 128000$ here in Denmark with the 180% registration tax and 25% sales tax.....
post #2600 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by OtherSongs View Post

For high quality sound, BD audio disks are still a small blip on the map, in comparison to the older SACD and DVD-A discs (both 5.1 and stereo).

True, but you owe it to yourselves to grab an example of what few Blu-ray profile 3 (audio-only) disks are available. I still prefer SACD, but there are going to be a lot more Blu-ray players than SACD players out there (and even fewer SACD players that handle DSD natively instead of converting it to PCM), so I'm hoping the profile 3 takes off. It sounds pretty darn good. I've bought several from 2l (http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movies.php?studioid=93).
post #2601 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by bnieman View Post

Top of the line 7.1 setup?
Bryston SP3 preamp/surround sound processor (http://bryston.com/products/digital_audio/SP3.html)
Connected to (7) seperate Bryston 28BSST² mono power amps (http://bryston.com/products/power_amps/28BSST-2.html)
600 watts per channel, 20 year warranty, US Made, sounds tremendous. Will set you back around $80k though.

Or you can get a used Anthem Statement P5 and some sort of used multichannel analog preamp for about $5k. If you only want one source, you can skip the preamp, and wind up only spending about $3-3.5k.

The Anthem sounds great, and it will drive anything, even electrostatics.

You need two separately breakered 15-amp circuits to plug in the Anthem, but worst case that will set you back about $500.
post #2602 of 2827
[
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSlowDown View Post

On-Topic:
Also, thanks for opening my eyes on the glass shelves. eek.gif Never though of the safety aspects before - only looked at load ratings.
My Onkyo 'reference revival' equipment would not be happy crashing through shelves, and is very heavy!
I have some VTI glass shelves for a few years now without a problem.
Still, I'll have to rig something to catch the equipment if it falls through the glass (might be able to do this without it being visible as I have black glass shelves) - or just replace the shelves with wood.
- TSD
=====

I use Metro wire racks. They are very strong, adjustable, look clean and contemporary, come in a variety of form factors, have various accessories for storage/rolling/etc., are reasonably priced, easily available, and inherently support convection cooling (they use them for baked goods, for example).
post #2603 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post


1) If the HDMI Input is LPCM, then the HDMI output is LPCM. If the HDMI Input is Bitstream, then the HDMI output is Bitstream or LPCM according to the HDMI Audio setting in the OPPO. Please note that the HDMI Inputs do not accept TrueHD or DTS-HD MA Bitstreams. So if you want high bit rate audio, the thing to do is send multi-channel LPCM to the HDMI Inputs (up to 192KHz 24-bit for up to 5.1 LPCM input, and up to 96KHz 24-bit for 7.1 LPCM input).
2) As stated, input on the Asynchronous USB DAC is 2.0 LPCM. Only. You could, I suppose, apply the DTS Neo:6 processing to Asynchronous USB DAC Input. But DAMN! Why would you want to?
3) In my testing, I find the multi-channel Analog and HDMI LPCM input identical through my D2v for up to 5.1 content. For 7.1 content, the D2v does not accept 7.1 Analog input, whereas it DOES accept 7.1 LPCM, so there will be differences due to the down-mix. As previously stated, I have the D2v do all of the speaker configuration, bass management, and room correction heavy lifting for either type of input.
--Bob

 

Thanks Bob ...appreciate the answers. Did you compare the stereo outs as well, XLR and/or RCA versus hdmi using a CD source?


Edited by dmusoke - 11/22/12 at 1:16pm
post #2604 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by bnieman View Post

Top of the line 7.1 setup?
Bryston SP3 preamp/surround sound processor (http://bryston.com/products/digital_audio/SP3.html)
Connected to (7) seperate Bryston 28BSST² mono power amps (http://bryston.com/products/power_amps/28BSST-2.html)
600 watts per channel, 20 year warranty, US Made, sounds tremendous. Will set you back around $80k though.

Bryston is made in Canada. And there is no way you need 7*1000W monoblocks. With that money you should pick up some more efficient speakers. smile.gif
post #2605 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tank_PD View Post

Bryston is made in Canada. And there is no way you need 7*1000W monoblocks. With that money you should pick up some more efficient speakers. smile.gif
IIRC, the suggestion was a somewhat sarcastic / tongue in cheek reply to a generic "I want top of the line everything" post.
post #2606 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsr View Post

IIRC, the suggestion was a somewhat sarcastic / tongue in cheek reply to a generic "I want top of the line everything" post.

Sorry, I must have taken it out of context without fully catching up. smile.gif
post #2607 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmusoke View Post

Quote:
3) In my testing, I find the multi-channel Analog and HDMI LPCM input identical through my D2v for up to 5.1 content. For 7.1 content, the D2v does not accept 7.1 Analog input, whereas it DOES accept 7.1 LPCM, so there will be differences due to the down-mix. As previously stated, I have the D2v do all of the speaker configuration, bass management, and room correction heavy lifting for either type of input.

--Bob

Thanks Bob ...appreciate the answers. Did you compare the stereo outs as well, XLR and/or RCA versus hdmi using a CD source?

I use the Dedicated Stereo Analog RCA outputs in lieu of the normal LF/RF RCA outputs of the multi-channel set -- i.e., Stereo Signal = FRONT LEFT/RIGHT.

Now, since I have all speakers set to Large, equidistant, and with 0dB volume trim, that means when playing Stereo content I get the same results as if I had wired them separately.

My result stands. I find 2.0 LPCM over HDMI into my D2v to be equivalent to Stereo Analog. Excellent either way. All processed through ARC on the D2v, as I've stated. Stereo Audio Mode is set on the D2v when testing this for HDMI (which produces the same result as a 2.0 signal coming in on the 5.1 Analog input). ARC brings the subwoofer into play. That is, I use 2.1 speakers for output from the D2v.

I've not tried wiring the XLR outputs (I would not expect any difference and it complicates volume balancing the multi-channel configuration), and I've not tried bypassing the processing in the D2v for the reasons I've already stated.



By the way, in my setup, I can easily A/B compare SACD DSD/PCM Analog output as well. I have HDMI 1 (only) hooked up, and I leave SACD Output DSD set. As long as HDMI audio is live, this forces SACD playback to use PCM. But simply by changing to HDMI Audio OFF on-the-fly I can switch that to DSD for the Analog outputs. The only complication is that the current track restarts when you change in or out of DSD -- which means there is a premium on finding comparison material near the START of a track.

I've done careful comparison there as well, and find PCM and DSD identical via the Analog outputs for both the 5.1 and 2.0 SACD tracks I've tried.

NOTE: This works because my default configuration for Analog out of the 105 is identical to what happens when SACD DSD-Direct-to-Analog-Conversion is engaged. I.e., all speakers are set to Large, equidistant, and at 0dB volume trim. So no processing is happening in the OPPO for the Analog PCM case, which matches the inherent no processing imposed by the Analog DSD case. I can do this because the D2v itself takes care of speaker volume trim, distance alignment, and crossover processing as an essential part of its Anthem Room Correction processing.



I should add that HDCD Decoding -- either to the stereo Analog or stereo HDMI LPCM output -- also works equally well.

ETA: I use Volume = FIXED for the Analog outputs.
--Bob
Edited by Bob Pariseau - 11/22/12 at 10:04pm
post #2608 of 2827

^ Bob ...thanks. Your tests were very detailed and complete and very appreciated. It matches my results with the 95 i own.

post #2609 of 2827
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimshowalter View Post

True, but you owe it to yourselves to grab an example of what few Blu-ray profile 3 (audio-only) disks are available. I still prefer SACD, but there are going to be a lot more Blu-ray players than SACD players out there (and even fewer SACD players that handle DSD natively instead of converting it to PCM), so I'm hoping the profile 3 takes off. It sounds pretty darn good. I've bought several from 2l (http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movies.php?studioid=93).

Although the blu-ray audio-only hi-res format is small at the moment, it seems likely that the older formats (SACD and DVD-A) will be replaced. Blu-ray players are becoming common, while SACD and/or DVD-A players are not (and never have been - even including the universal players like Oppo, Denon, etc).

Naxos is now producing blu-ray audio-only DTS HD MA recordings (I have their Dvorak Symphonies 6 & 9 disc, and 7 & 8 disc. They are not bad, although there is something about them that occasionally nags - not sure if the brass sounds too bright or what, just not as smooth a sound, but I have also found this on standard CDs with Naxos: maybe their equipment/sound engineers or whatever are not quite up to scratch??

Aix Records also seem to be moving to blu-ray instead of DVD-As, although they are including HD video (even, for crying out load, 3D video, which for me is going overboard) of the recording sessions on their blu-rays.

It would make sense to go to the most commonly used format for those companies wanting to market hi-res or "audiophile" quality discs. I cannot understand why the big companies (Deutsche Grammophon, Decca, Hyperion etc) do not issue hi-res blu-ray recordings, be they audio-only or video and audio.
post #2610 of 2827
^^^
I agree and wish they would release some product on Blu-ray! I really enjoy the uncompressed audio.
Edited by Sharp1080 - 11/23/12 at 2:39am
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