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Fox to Sell Digital Downloads of Films Before Their Blu-ray Release Dates - Page 3

post #61 of 142
9/16/12 at 1:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Conrad View Post

Let's not forget and I've seen it many times that Netflix will deliver you an HD movie at a lower resolution just to get started faster and switch to the HD stream once running. I even saw that last night watching a film on my Acer tablet. I think they even wrote a tech blog article about doing that.

While I don't understand why you brought that up, that is one thing that only happens on my Roku(wireless 1080P), never on my Panasonic BR player(wireless 1080P) or my I-pad.
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post #62 of 142
9/16/12 at 2:07pm
It happens on my 2 Panasonic and 1 Sony BR players (DMP-BDT220, DMP-BDT110 and BDP-S390), my PS3, my Roku 2, my Xbox 360 and my TiVo Premiere. It's budget streaming video; are you eyes going to be seared out of their sockets by 5-10 seconds of less than HD?
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post #63 of 142
9/17/12 at 3:24pm
Most newer devices use adaptive streaming. They typically start at Low/SD and work their way up to the max possible. Most of the time, on my WDTV Live Streaming, it will typically reach X-High/HD within 18-20 seconds. To be honest, the upconversion is pretty good on it, and most of the time it's a bit hard to tell, unless I start on something with lots of movement and detail.

My older Sony devices (BDP-S370, BDP-S380 and KDL-46EX700) run a speed test first, then uses only the bandwidth it thinks it has.
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post #64 of 142
9/17/12 at 3:42pm
Still not interested.
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post #65 of 142
9/18/12 at 9:28am
Twentieth Century Fox Home Entertainment Sept. 18 officially announced the launch of Digital HD, a new initiative that allows consumers to download or stream more than 600 Fox films on connected devices. The titles, which cost less than $15, can be accessed through Amazon, CinemaNow, Google Play, iTunes, PlayStation, Vudu, Xbox Live and YouTube.

http://www.homemediamagazine.com/fox/fox-formally-bows-digital-hd-28346
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post #66 of 142
9/18/12 at 12:21pm
Well which is it, Lee? Download or Stream.

I thought my CinemaNow was a stream, but this was obviously so wrong that it warranted your correction.
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post #67 of 142
9/18/12 at 12:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cshawnmcdonald View Post

Well which is it, Lee? Download or Stream.

Either, as decided by the customer.
See http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/07/fox-dhd-early-movie-sale-ultraviolet-prometheus/
and http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/18/google-play-and-youtube-add-fox-movies-and-tv-shows/
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post #68 of 142
9/18/12 at 1:46pm
Own or rent, you can always download VUDU to a console (at least to PS3) and MS Zune Video to an Xbox. Amazon and iTunes can be downloaded to PCs (and I'm sure Macs for iTunes at least). It's a way to see the movie at its maximum available quality level, even when you don't have bandwidth to stream it at that level. Even if you do have bandwidth for streaming the best, you don't run the risk of momentary dips in quality if available bandwidth on your connection to the streaming server fluctuates or those servers become temporarily less responsive. If you paid for HDX from VUDU you get a 9 Mbps average 1080p download and if you paid for HD from Zune you get their 10 Mbps 1080p (no lower cost 720p option from Zune). Amazon's maximum quality download is 720p except to Tivos, which get 1080i. IIRC, iTunes has both 720p and 1080p options for HD titles.

Downloading high bandwidth HD over a slower connection obviously takes longer than the realtime duration of the film, but what do you care? You just have to plan ahead a little smile.gif.
Edited by michaeltscott - 9/18/12 at 2:09pm
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post #69 of 142
9/18/12 at 1:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cshawnmcdonald View Post

Well which is it, Lee? Download or Stream.
I thought my CinemaNow was a stream, but this was obviously so wrong that it warranted your correction.

The $15 Fox Digital HD is a download.
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post #70 of 142
9/18/12 at 2:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Either, as decided by the customer.
See http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/07/fox-dhd-early-movie-sale-ultraviolet-prometheus/
and http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/18/google-play-and-youtube-add-fox-movies-and-tv-shows/

You have to buy the download before you can stream the movie. There is no "stream only" choice other than a PPV/VOD which comes out 3 weeks later with DVD and BD.
Edited by Lee Stewart - 9/18/12 at 2:07pm
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post #71 of 142
9/18/12 at 2:26pm
I bought it from VUDU for $9.00 Looks very, very good streaming from VUDU. Can't wait for the Blu-ray biggrin.gif
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post #72 of 142
9/18/12 at 2:35pm
I'm pretty sure that most or all of those services (VUDU, Amazon, Zune and iTunes for sure, don't know about CinemaNow) allow download as a no-cost option, whether you're renting or purchasing. It's nothing special for this stuff.
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post #73 of 142
9/18/12 at 4:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otter0911 View Post

I bought it from VUDU for $9.00

How'd you get it for $9? It shows up there for $14.99. Unused $6 promo credit from a new device added to your account?
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post #74 of 142
9/18/12 at 5:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

How'd you get it for $9? It shows up there for $14.99. Unused $6 promo credit from a new device added to your account?

Yep biggrin.gif

Saved it for Prometheus
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post #75 of 142
9/19/12 at 8:18am
I missed Prometheus in theaters, too, but there's no way in hell I'm going to be content with streaming. I'll wait for the Blu Ray, even it doesn't get released until October. Maybe by then I will have upgraded from my 55" to the 65" that I've been eyeballing.
Edited by BadAssJazz - 9/19/12 at 8:23am
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post #76 of 142
9/19/12 at 8:28am
Quote:
there's no way in hell I'm going to be content with streaming. I'll wait for the Blu Ray, .






AAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWW YEAAAAAAH.

Whoo! That was good. That was a goooooooood movie. Mmmm, mmmm, mmmmmm!

Delaying gratification is overrated.
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post #77 of 142
9/19/12 at 11:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by boo View Post

While I don't understand why you brought that up, that is one thing that only happens on my Roku(wireless 1080P), never on my Panasonic BR player(wireless 1080P) or my I-pad.

This was well discussed topic in other threads here. And no it isn't the device that does adaptive streaming though the codec can accommodate it. Netflix uses Silverlight. If you bothered to download Microsoft's free Expression encoder you can play with with creating a stream like Netflix does. It will in default mode generate several streams and has the ability to switch between them to accomodate bandwidth. What you get is probably more due to when you watched and what load demand there was. IOW, it doesn't do it rarely since I've gotten 12 mbps broadband and Netflix app on my Sony BD player runs a check for bandwith first so I see it less than I did with the Samsung player's app. On my Android phone the film I watched the other night started with the vaseline smeared looking encode and switched to HD a few seconds later (the phone display is 720p).
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post #78 of 142
9/19/12 at 12:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Conrad View Post

Netflix uses Silverlight.

The adaptive streaming is not a properly a part of Silverlight, which is a huge suite of web page authoring tools and APIs, MS' answer to Adobe's Flash. It's part of a multimedia extension to IIS, MS's web server product. (Naturally Silverlight does include API support for IIS Smooth Streaming). Netflix's streaming web player does use Silverlight but they have their own adaptive streaming scheme (or so sayeth MS' Alex Zambelli in his reply to this comment to an entry in his blog about IIS Smooth Streaming; Netflix states the same in this entry in their engineering blog). Netflix is a participant in the drive to standardize protocols fror adaptive bit rate streaming, which has taken the name "MPEG-DASH", for "Dynamic Adaptive Streaming over HTTP".

Netflix does use a file format devised by MS, called "Protected Interoperable File Format" or PIFF (aka as "fragmented MP4" or "fMP4"). Several other ABS schemes have chosen to use the format as well, including UltraViolet and the emerging DASH standard.
Edited by michaeltscott - 9/21/12 at 2:24am
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post #79 of 142
9/20/12 at 12:05pm
Then why do you need to have Silverlight installed to run Netflix? I know that you can use the codec and that MP4 is optional but but not available with their free version of Expression, just VC1. And of course I know that you can just use the codec and called it from your own software and probably wrap it anyway you want for DRM.
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post #80 of 142
9/20/12 at 4:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

I learned my lesson after LD (800) and DVD (1000). Still have about 600 DVDs left.
Indeed. I put some 300 LD into the trash bin last week.
Dead player, dead technology, dead investment.
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post #81 of 142
9/20/12 at 5:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Conrad View Post

Then why do you need to have Silverlight installed to run Netflix? I know that you can use the codec and that MP4 is optional but but not available with their free version of Expression, just VC1. And of course I know that you can just use the codec and called it from your own software and probably wrap it anyway you want for DRM.

You need Silverlight for the Netflix web player like you need Flash for some other web sites (Silverlight does a similar huge bunch of stuff)--it's got nothing specifically to do with the video streaming, just the UI around the player window. I don't doubt that they use the Silverlight API to actually play the chunks of video and audio that the player receives from their servers, but they get those chunks using software that they developed themselves. They could have used IIS Smooth Streaming through Silverlight, but they don't. Netflix has said that they use their own proprietary stuff and Microsoft has said that Netflix uses their own proprietary stuff.

In any case, I don't think that there are any embedded versions of Silverlight--just Silverlight for Windows and Macs and an open source version for Unix called Moonlight. Therefore, it wouldn't be available on the many dozens of embedded platforms which have Netflix players. (Of course, the client-side component of IIS Smooth Streaming is portable so it could be used if they wanted to, but they don't).

Here's a very technical academic paper comparing three ABS technologies, Microsoft's IIS Smooth Streaming, Netflix's and some open source thing called OSMF. It discusses the differences in Netflix's version of adaptive bit rate streaming as compared to MS' IIS Smooth Streaming.
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post #82 of 142
9/21/12 at 1:22am
This is a great Illusion but the price is somewhat weird to me, how can they be selling an online film for such a huge amount. Well, i don't blame them they are using the opportunity given to them.
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post #83 of 142
9/21/12 at 10:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Conrad View Post

I think it is more that Fox finally figured out that streaming is a viable distribution channel. Took them a while but I won't give most studio any credit for much forward thinking. I would expect spec driven home theater enthusiasts being against streaming but on my 12 year RP HD set some of those streams don't look much different from the BDs I rent. Certainly not enough to rent a BD or even buy one. Only thing missing would be extras but some places like Vudu and Amazon are even offering those. Besides there are no COGs to consider with streaming. wink.gif

You mention streaming but the title of this post is Digital Download, two different things. Fox is selling a digital download of their films but I guess UV is also streaming tool... Confusing...
Edited by TowerGrove - 9/21/12 at 10:12am
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post #84 of 142
9/21/12 at 11:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TowerGrove View Post

You mention streaming but the title of this post is Digital Download, two different things. Fox is selling a digital download of their films but I guess UV is also streaming tool... Confusing...

When I bought Prometheus from CinemaNow, their sales confirmation interface called it "streaming."

But hey. What do they know?


Edited by cshawnmcdonald - 9/21/12 at 11:20am
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post #85 of 142
9/21/12 at 12:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TowerGrove View Post

You mention streaming but the title of this post is Digital Download, two different things. Fox is selling a digital download of their films but I guess UV is also streaming tool... Confusing...

Every service from which you can download these films also allows you to stream them. Many have extremely limited options for downloading. I think that with VUDU you can only download to PS3 or the original VUDU box (I could be wrong), but there are dozens (possibly hundreds) of platforms with streaming VUDU players.

The article quoted in the OP did explicitly say downloads but Fox's PR mentions streaming:

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
TWENTIETH CENTURY FOX ADVANCES ENTERTAINMENT WITH DIGITAL HD™

Digital Model Expands Ownership Experience with HD, Affordable Pricing and Early Access

Up to 600 Digital HD™ Movies Available Immediately from Fox in over 50 Countries

LOS ANGELES – Sept. 18, 2012– Twentieth Century Fox Home Entertainment today announced the launch of DIGITAL HD™ -- a new initiative that allows consumers to download or stream their favorite Fox movies on a variety of connected devices. Customized for today's digital lifestyles, more than 600 Fox films can now be enjoyed anywhere, anytime in amazing high-definition immediately in the U.S. from Amazon, CinemaNow, Google Play, iTunes, PlayStation, VUDU, Xbox Live and YouTube.

The epic sci-fi thriller PROMETHEUS is also available today on DIGITAL HD™ for less than $15, arriving three weeks before Blu-ray, DVD and video-on-demand (VOD).

Digital HD™ combines four key benefits into one offering with earlier access to new releases, attractive pricing, cloud storage and availability across multiple devices. Whether the plan involves watching Fox movies on connected HDTVs in your living room, or on your tablet or smartphone on the run, Digital HD™ offers up versatility and convenience.

"With almost 800 million broadband connected devices globally, and millions of people accessing entertainment on those devices, we feel the medium's time has come,'' said Mike Dunn, President Worldwide, Twentieth Century Fox Home Entertainment. "DIGITAL HD™ redefines digital ownership in a way that presents consumers with a full range of benefits in a coherent way, and it allows them the chance to build digital movie collections that can literally be carried in the palms of their hands. "

"Available in more than 50 countries, DIGITAL HD™ is a brand that will define the convenience and selection that digital ownership brings," added Mary Daily, President of Worldwide Marketing and Chief Marketing Officer, Twentieth Century Fox Home Entertainment. "Over time, DIGITAL HD™ will embody the benefits of HD quality and the ultimate all-access pass to the best in entertainment."

Today's launch will coincide with the most extensive all-digital media campaign to date for digital movies that will reach over 100 million active movie viewers across online retailer sites and through the No. 1 sports, music and gaming sites.

PROMETHEUS on DIGITAL HD™ is also Fox's first UltraViolet-enabled title. Additional DIGITAL HD™ new releases this year include ABRAHAM LINCOLN: VAMPIRE HUNTER, ICE AGE: CONTINENTAL DRIFT, THE WATCH and DIARY OF A WIMPY KID: DOG DAYS.
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post #86 of 142
9/21/12 at 12:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TowerGrove View Post

You mention streaming but the title of this post is Digital Download, two different things. Fox is selling a digital download of their films but I guess UV is also streaming tool... Confusing...
That's because some of the streaming option have download options too. I am a software developer and have been one for almost 30 years. Coming from an arts background I probably talk too abstractly for the "metal heads" here and they may gather I don't know what I'm talking about. But I have developed video players for games so know something about streaming and codecs. Of course I know well why Silverlight is required for Windows and why parts can be embedded. I may not be a streaming specialist but I'm not armchair either. wink.gif
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post #87 of 142
9/21/12 at 1:17pm
Technically you'd be 'renting'' a digital copy, this is the same case with iTunes purchases/downloads too. They can take it back at anytime.
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post #88 of 142
9/21/12 at 1:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Conrad View Post

Coming from an arts background I probably talk too abstractly for the "metal heads" here and they may gather I don't know what I'm talking about. But I have developed video players for games so know something about streaming and codecs. Of course I know well why Silverlight is required for Windows and why parts can be embedded. I may not be a streaming specialist but I'm not armchair either. wink.gif

I'm sorry--in our discussion of Silverlight and Netflix I didn't mean to imply that you were clueless or otherwise offend you. You did ask, "Then why do you need to have Silverlight installed to run Netflix?", so I offered an explanation.

My point was simply that the streaming part of the Netflix player at Netflix's website (as opposed to the generic run-through-the-codec-and-display-in-the-window part) is not part of Silverlight or at all provided by MS, being software created by Netflix, though Microsoft does have adaptive bit rate streaming software (IIS Smooth Streaming).

You also said, "it isn't the device that does adaptive streaming" and I think that that's also incorrect. Determining which encode to use under current conditions kind of has to be driven from the client side, since only the client knows that it's not keeping its buffer full and therefore needs to go to a lower bit rate encode or that it's keeping its buffer full easily and can therefore give a higher bit rate encode a try. The server side just needs to be able to give the clients fragments of different bit rate encodes as requested.
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post #89 of 142
9/21/12 at 1:40pm
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Originally Posted by whoisyuri View Post

Technically you'd be 'renting'' a digital copy, this is the same case with iTunes purchases/downloads too. They can take it back at anytime.

I'd contest that. The terms of service for VUDU, et al, state that you can access purchased content for as long as you have a VUDU capable device and maintain a VUDU account (if delete your account, does all of your purchased content go up in smoke?). I'm pretty sure that they won't otherwise take your access away. I've purchased stuff from both Microsoft's Zune Video and Amazon Instant Video (mostly TV episodes that I missed) which is no long offered for sale or rent but I can access the copy that I bought.
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post #90 of 142
9/21/12 at 4:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaeltscott View Post

Every service from which you can download these films also allows you to stream them. Many have extremely limited options for downloading. I think that with VUDU you can only download to PS3 or the original VUDU box (I could be wrong), but there are dozens (possibly hundreds) of platforms with streaming VUDU players.
The article quoted in the OP did explicitly say downloads but Fox's PR mentions streaming: Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)


The WDTV Live Hub allows downloading from VUDU...
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