The "Official" Pioneer Elite SC-61/-63 Owners Forum - Page 6

Yeah, did that. No dice. I've sent an email to Pioneer customer support. I guess we'll see what they have to say tomorrow.

No one about the app???

No one about the app???

Today I decided to connect my Wii to the SC-61 I chose the DVD input on the reciver and its going in using RCA cables. When I use the input the picture on the screen is not as sharp as when I connect the cable directly to the TV input. So in other words If I connect the Wii directly to the TV the picture is sharper than when I connect it to the reciever , Any Ideas why the picture would be slightly blurry through the reciever?

^^
it's going thru the video processing chip since Video Converter is on by default. you can either go into the video parameter menu and try tweaking the Detail, Progressive Cinema, Motion or other settings for the Wii or you can try just turning it off.

what I don't remember is whether video parameter settings can be individually set for each input, so that you can have different settings per input. you may have to try it & see. if I get time later today, I can check & post back.

usually, I suggest just turning the Video Converter off, so that the video chip in the player or the TV is the one doing the scaling/processing, especially with a calibrated TV. for a calibrated TV & Blu-ray player & HDMI, I think using the Video Converter is not only superfluous but can possibly degrade what you paid for in a calibration.

however, the one use that I do think the receiver's video processor can be beneficial for is tweaking an older analog source, like a DVR, laserdisc, VCR, including a game console w/o HDMI. that's the only time I personally use it - I find I can improve contrast and several other items for the occasional time I watch an old laserdisc or (heaven forbid) a tape. the rest of the time, for all HDMI sources and even component video, I have it turned completely off. the advantage of using it for a specific analog or even digital source on a calibrated TV is you can tweak a mediocre picture in the receiver without messing with the calibrator's settings.

try turning it off first to get a baseline of what bypassing the video processor looks like. you might find that is what you're looking for & no further action needed then you can try turning it back on, go into the video parameter menu, maybe start with Detail (sharpness) and then progressive cinema & motion to see if "sharpness" improves and/or motion artifacts reduced.
Edited by ss9001 - 1/14/13 at 4:26am

That's correct. Follow the instructions carefully: http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/Pandora
I have an SC-61. The factory told me not to use a USB thumb drive larger than 1 or 2 Gigs. It doesn't work for me. I will now have to return it to the factory for update.
Please post back with results.

What cable do you use to connect Wii to TV? Can you use that?
RCA cables (if they are good quality) can be used to route video signal but they must be as short as possible. Standard audio cabling will very quickly degrade video signal with increasing length.

Ill try this I had a feeling the reciever was doing something but didnt have any idea where to start?


The cable comes out of the Wii directly and Im using the same cable when connecting either the TV directly or the reciever directly from the Wii as its a specialized connector/output from the back of the Wii that turns into the rca cables for sound and video. So unless I go and buy some special cables to output the signal from the Wii (which I dont really want to do) I have to use these cables. The length is about 6 feet but the change in picture quality is extremely noticable when comparing the input from the TV and through the reviever.

I wouldn't worry about the length of cable I've run s-video, composite & component video 50ft.
I'm pretty confident that the video processor settings are the reason. logically, if you use the same cables if can't be the length.

So I've read of some adjusting speaker levels after calibration which is what I did. My concern however is the amount I had to increase it. My Left and right fronts went from-6.5 after calibration to +0.5 and my center from -4 to +4. I increased the channel levels because the overall volume was just lacking. Had to turn the receiver way up to reach the same volume of my Yamaha rxv671 that was not turned up as loud. Even at loud levels the center was was not as pronounced as I'm used to. I'm running Klipsch reference. Just curious if this level increase could be bad or cause distortion or other issues with the sound or the speakers

Another thing, when playing the ps3 the volume is WAY lower than other sources. I've owned, or tried out a Yamaha onkyo and marantz receiver and they were all consistently about the same volume level with the ps3 as other sources, so I don't believe it's a a setting on the ps3. The ps3 has always played pretty loud with other receivers. Weird that only the pioneer would have this volume difference with different sources and the ps3 would be so quiet.
Edited by cdub5 - 1/14/13 at 11:12pm

Hey cdub - after I ran the calibration, MCCAC had set my mains and surrounds at close to 1.0 to -1.0. The sounds on the PS3 seems plenty loud to me with the receiver at -25.0db
I would try checking the EQ graphs to see what frequency response you are getting both before and after calibration...and then maybe try running the EQ again with a different delay capture ( i ran mine at the suggested 30-50ms)
Having to up your mains...especially Klipsch...that far seems way off. I have the BIC Acoustech which are also horn loaded tweeters and they get plenty load.
Perhaps you have a lot of reverb in the room and the system is catching that and turning down the levels to compensate

Has anyone tried the MCCAC with the other two calibration options - namely All Ch Adjust or Front Align? What kind of results are you getting with those other two options?
It seems like ALL CH ADJ may be optimal since it sets each speaker individually??

Thanks bcarithers

I'll have to see if I can figure out exactly what your recommending and how to do it. Still learning. The ps3 issue is strange to me because on my Yamaha -25 was plenty loud enough as well. Also I was watching transformers blu ray to check sound. I had to turn it up to -6/-4 db to " equal" the volume of my yammy when it was turned to about -12/-10. This was before I turned up the channel levels on the pio. Even at that level my 10 year old son stated that it seemed loud-ish, but the dialogue was kinda muffled. When I had the pio this loud during transformers there was one part where there was loud surround sound at my surround speakers started to crackle and I thought they were goona blow. This has never happened before, even at louder volumes. I am using tiny little Yamaha speakers as surround that I got in a 5.1 set. They handled louder volume in the past. I do feel something is set wrong just not sure what.

A comparison from a different avr can't be made since the volume controls are not linear. Also different source material will affect how high or low the volume will need to be adjusted. The sound from All Ch ADJ and Front Align should sound similar to symmetry in most setups. Muffle dialogue may be a sign of frequency masking. Going up on the center channel level may not help much. Rm treatments may be in order.

It's not exactly muffled, or maybe it is. Not sure how to describe it. It almost reminded me of my father in law's vizio soundbar. When we watch movies at his house the music, action, and surrounding noises overpower the dialogue. It really makes watching movies there crappy. With my klipsch rc62 this has never even been close to an issue. Not sure what room correction I could do, WAF and $, but I've used a yamaha, marantz, and an onkyo and this never occured. In terms of comparing volume controls of different avr's, I agree, I guess I just figured since this receiver has more power, I wouldn't have to crank the volume as much, let alone more. As I said, something must be tweaked wrong, it's hopefully just a matter of finding it. Right now it seems okay, with limited testing do to time, however having the channel levels so high to achieve the sound I'm used to concerns me. Thanks for your advice

Cdub, Go in to the Advanced MCCAC menu and look at the frequency response graphs for the center channel. This should tell you what the response the receiver is getting both before applying EQ and after.
The response of the center should be close to your fronts so if it is much lower, that may be the issue. You might see on specific frequency range that is not responging as well as the others...in which case, try running the EQ professional at a different time capture to see if you get better response.
Check the first post in the MCCAC thread...it describes how to do what I am talking about

Just hooked the blue version 1222 to replace an older 1015 that didn't have hdmi output. I've updated the firmware and everything seems fine, except for one thing that I cannot figure out. I stream movies to my tivo and the receiver either outputs no sound or some random beeps. Previously, I used an optical output to the 1015 and never had a problem. I get video, and playing recorded shows or watching live tv does not have this problem. The receiver seems to detect the movie as it switches to "dialog normalization", but no sound. I changed the tivo to output pcm and I get sound, but it's only stereo. I tried a few things, swapping out the hdmi cable, hooking the optical cable up and forcing the receiver to use it via signal select, but the results are the same. I can pass a dolby signal from a dvd over hdmi and it doesn't seem to have a problem. Again, the 1015 has no problem playing the movie files, and I can only assume this is no different than hookup up a Roku or similar unit. Most of the files are mkv with ac3/dts/aac audio tracks (6 channel). I was able to get an mp4 to come through in stereo. Any troubleshooting ideas? I'm working through the manual still, but I don't see anything that can help. Did they drop needed codecs since I had the 1015?

Any idea why my cd rom comes up in Asian? I can not figure out how to get to the English version. SC 63

^^
there was at least 1 other poster in 1 of the Pioneer threads that had the same problem.

I think his problem was linked to user access control in his version of Windows, vista or 7. I think that was part of the problem anyway.

are you set up as administrator in windows? and did you try right-clicking on the setup exe and select "install as admin" option? eventually he got it to install correctly in English but I don't remember the Pioneer model & thread he posted in.

My projector is composite only, so I am stuck using the composite out on the SC-61 receiver. When I plug my Wii into the "Video" RCA jacks, I get nothing on screen. I can get the sound but no video. What am I missing here?

Same thing with Pandora. Nothing on screen, but I can hear the music.

Working my way through some sound/calibration issues with the helpful advice of people in this thread. Thanks. Earlier I mentioned that my surround speakers (little speakers, part of a Yamaha 5.1 speaker set in a box) during a loud scene started to crackle and I thought they were gonna blow. I think it's because the crossover is set to 80 and that to much low end for them. My previous avr let me set the crossover for each channel. Since that's not an option, are my only choices to blow out my Yamaha speakers or have to buy better surrounds? My fronts can handle it, Klipsch reference, but my surrounds were struggling tonight watching dark Knight rises (awesome movie for sound)

^^
"little speakers, part of a Yamaha 5.1 speaker set in a box"

I trust you have the Yamaha's set to Small & not Large then...

you can increase the crossover in the receiver, upgrade the surround speakers to something worthy of being mated with your Klipsch's or turn the volume down 80 hz will be way too low for typical HTIB satellite speakers. but b4 I get into the crossover issue...

whatever the make of speakers are the fronts, your best choice is to go with matching center & surrounds from same company in the same speaker model line, if possible. for heights, wides, and rears it's not essential IMO. but for center & side surrounds, if you want it to seem like an integrated soundfield with seamless transitions between the front half to the surrounds, the optimum way to go is timbre matched speakers. you've combined a hi-end, hi-quality speaker with very budget (=cheap) surrounds....maybe you had them lying around (I can relate ) or maybe the budget wasn't there at the time but you're not getting what your system is capable of combining little satellites with hi-end speakers.

you'll also gain by also better matching the bass capabilities so that one crossover can work well.

the ideal choice for your Reference fronts is look at Klipsch speakers in the same category or go a step or 2 down if you must for budget reasons:

http://www.klipsch.com/reference-home-theater-systems

Typically, a sat speaker will NOT be bass capable < 120-200 Hz. it's a very poor choice to match your front's capabilities, sorry but call it like I see it. for now, take a look at the specs for your Yamaha sats, where the rated -3 dB cutoff bass frequency is. If it's 120Hz, for example, and your current crossover is 80 Hz, then you'll want to increase the crossover to 150 or go with a compromise at 100. if they are rated to 150-200 Hz, then that is even a worse mismatch. you can see that @ a crossover >100Hz, your fronts are very under-utilized, and bass can start to become directional at that high of a crossover, 100 is probably OK if you use a sub and it's near the fronts.

and I agree, that unless you have an obvious reason for distortion or amp distress, say a loose speaker connection, a strand of wire touching the receiver chassis, the most likely reason for the crackling sound is the amp is pushing too much bass for the woofer's capability and it's distorting.

the only other possible reason for popping sounds is the DTS-MA "bomb" but that only appeared in certain DTS-MA titles, is random & not a crackling sound but a loud popping crack & it would appear in your fronts also. plus most of the DTS bomb cases with Pioneers were with the very early DTS-MA decoders & has been corrected with FW updates - highly improbable in a new model with the latest DSP's & decoding algorithms.

only you can decide whether it's worth it to buy new speakers but I've given you my best advice - get a set of good surround speakers.
Edited by ss9001 - 1/19/13 at 7:33am

Thanks ss9001. I agree. Due to the fact I just got a new Tv and this receiver, unfortunately surrounds will have to wait. I've got my eye on the rs52ii, but at $600-$800 I gotta wait. I think my other avr had the little speakers set at about 150hz. I definitely don't want to take away from my mains to compensate for the cheap SATs. I have to say I still don't really understand why pioneer wouldn't allow adjustable crossover settings for individual channels

I just looked up the specs online and according to the Yamaha site these speakers have a frequency response of 28hz-50khz. Shouldn't that mean they should be able to handle surround duties even set at 80hz?
Edited by cdub5 - 1/19/13 at 8:49am

^^
28Hz?

It may say that in the specs but what you don't know is how many dB down that is. for example, it may rolloff at 150 hitting 28 hz 80 dB less volume than the rest of the freq range. that is a way to claim something that can't be achieved in the real world.

that's why some companies conveniently omit putting a -dB rating with the freq response; they aren't lying per se but they aren't telling the truth either.

to reach 28Hz, that speaker would realistically have to have woofers in the 10-12' size to be able to do that with any measurable volume.

to give you some comparisons, my vintage EPI bookshelves (similar to Advents back in the 70's) have 6" woofers and are only capable of 50-60 hz. the new DefTech Studio Monitor 55 can reach 40 Hz & it has 1 - 5-1/2" woofer/midrange AND a 6x10 passive radiator. the Martin Logan Motion 4 mini-bookshelves I use for heights can only reach about 90 hz before dropping off and it has a 4" woofer. the DefTech supercube I I have which gets to 26-28 Hz has a 10" woofer & 2-10" passive radiators! that a HTIB bass module could reach that the same freq with any measurable output is dubious.

unless your Yamaha speaker is really a huge bookshelf, that Yamaha spec is BS. even if it were bookshelf size, 28 Hz is a level very few full range tower speakers can reach. I once owned some AR towers with that bass capability and they had 2 10" woofers!

edit -

it just occurred to me that the rating is probably for the combined sat & bass module system but even that is hardly believable for a typical bass module in a HTIB package. I highly doubt Yamaha has packaged a bass unit anywhere close to what it costs for that kind of performance in a HTIB pkg that probably costs $500 or so. even with a bass unit, it's still a BS spec.

sorry, but if Yamaha truly published a 28hz spec for HTIB sat/bass module speaker system, I think they have stretched the truth to the point of incredulity! & you shouldn't believe it! it's not practically achievable even with a good sized bookshelf let alone a sat. & bass module in a typical low cost HTIB pkg.

you're on the right track in looking at upgrading to much better surrounds.

in the meantime, I suggest throwing your Yamaha specs in the trash where they belong and set the crossover at least 100 Hz. you're probably even better off going to 150, especially it there's still distortion. the fact that another AVR set it to 150 confirms this.

btw- are you still using the Yamaha bass module? if so, your next priority should be to get a real subwoofer that really is capable of reaching into the 20 Hz range have a lot of choices from reputable companies that won't break the bank and really do meet their specs....SVS, Hsu, Rythmic, Epik, Velodyne all come to mind, they are all dedicated subwoofer mfgs who have excellent reputations.

if you're not using a sub or the bass module, make sure you set the fronts to Large and let them handle the bass for now. my comment on under-utilizing the fronts was my assumption that you had a subwoofer and sorry I didn't make that clear without a sub, setting the fronts to Large will get you the bass from the sats so you're not losing it

yes, I know what you're saying about independent crossovers that has been told to Pioneer many times by many enthusiasts. I can go into it but according to the Pioneer US marketing manager, he has asked Pioneer Japan's audio engineers about it and they are adamant that this could degrade audio quality by introducing phase shifts & anomalies. It's not likely to change in the near future. but IMHO as a Pioneer enthusiast, the practical benefit outweighs the theoretical downside. at least they should offer it as an option (sigh). it hasn't happened yet and Pioneer has been critiqued for not having it for at least 4 years now.
Edited by ss9001 - 1/19/13 at 12:55pm

does anyone know how to access the computer program that only the sc-63 has

??
what program? the one that downloads MCACC & graphs the readings? something else?
AFAIK, there is no unique program for the SC-63 that wouldn't also be available for the other SC models.

there are only 2 program I know of for use with SC models: the Advanced MCACC program that's been around in various versions for many yrs and the custom installer program for an installer to remotely setup the receiver over the internet & that one takes special privileges to access it, login credentials provided by Pioneer. if the custom installation program is what you're after, I can tell you where to dl it but that doesn't get you access the MCACC program (RS-232 connection) is available for all owners to use from their website.

please clarify what you're after
Edited by ss9001 - 1/19/13 at 3:33pm

@ss9001

Yeah I'm starting to learn to take all specs with a grain of salt. Maybe I'll try setting crossover to 100 and see what that does. Honestly I got the 5.1 Yamaha set for about $150 a year ago, and I bought a second set for my wife for the bedroom for $120 on Amazon about a month ago. It's a cheap fix. So I actually have a couple of these speakers extra, sitting in a closet. I figure if some blow, I have back up. It'll take some time before I can upgrade the surrounds so I gotta do what I gotta do
Yes I am using the sub from the set. I'm also using a bic pl200 so at least I got 2 subs running. I know neither are great but it works for now. One day it'll be an svs or velodyne for me, but I've only been at this for about a year. Baby steps, especially since I love my wife, so I want her to stay. Haha

Btw thanks for all the input
Edited by cdub5 - 1/19/13 at 6:18pm

I just got this receiver with a great price match from my local BestBuy. I am using it to power my center and rears. Great so far.

The one problem I am having is trying to connect to the internet. I have an Airport Express behind my system I stream to. For the Pioneer I plugged into the Ethernet port on the airport. The network doesn't seem to find the receiver.

Any suggestions?

Run Window xp or windows 7 compatibility mode.

I recently purchased 2 sc-1227 receivers at a Boxing Day sale here in Canada. I note that the specs for 1227 and the sc-61 say 125w x 7 online. On the front of both receivers the information tag indicates that they are 160w x 7. Has Pioneer upped the power on these or have they used different oms rating for thier online specs as opposed to the information stcker on the front of the receivers?