Need some advice for my first dedicated theater room

TOTALLY go with the Bowers and Wilkins. The CM9's are just outstanding speakers. Paired with the CM5's in the rears and the CM Center 2 is just going the make that room sound like a reference room in Abbey Road... well, the have the 800D's, but you know what I mean
I demo these speakers all day long and have developed quite the love affair with them. The CM5's will be my first purchase, then when I get a little more money together I will be getting the CM9's and moving the CM5's to the rear positions. Then, granted a little more money comes in, the CM Center. You are looking at MY PERSONAL dream system. Keep this thread updated on what you do brother!

Also, I demo those with a Pioneer SC-67 Elite receiver, Bi-amped. I am still a little on the fence about the MCACC calibration from Pioneer, but it sounds damn good. If you wanna go in there with some good 2.0 channel reference material, I would suggest .flac copies of Nine Inch Nails "Into the Void", "Derezzed" from the TRON-Reconfigured soundtrack, "Is Your Love Strong Enough" from The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo soundtrack, and "Wish You Were Here" Pink Floyd. See my post in the 15 great movie demos thread with my recommends on DTS 5.1 soundtracks to demo.

Also, I demo those with a Pioneer SC-67 Elite receiver, Bi-amped. I am still a little on the fence about the MCACC calibration from Pioneer, but it sounds damn good. If you wanna go in there with some good 2.0 channel reference material, I would suggest .flac copies of Nine Inch Nails "Into the Void", "Derezzed" from the TRON-Reconfigured soundtrack, "Is Your Love Strong Enough" from The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo soundtrack, Tool "The Pot", and "Wish You Were Here" Pink Floyd. See my post in the 15 great movie demos thread with my recommends on DTS 5.1 soundtracks to demo.
The reason you wanna do a 2.0 channel demo is you can really appreciate the soundstage and the imaging of the speakers when you reduce it down to only 2. Then, you can pair up the rest as needed. But you have a DYNAMITE setup as it is.

I would prefer the Klipsch speakers. The B&Ws are nice but they are naptime next to the Klipsch. For home theater it is no contest. Also, on that budget you really ought to get a better sub, the Velodynes aren't bad but there is a hell of a lot better out there for the same price. I would die if I had a Klipsch setup bottlenecked by a 12" Velodyne sub. For the same price as the Velodyne you could get a Rythmik FV15HP which would crush it in every single performance metric. Or get a pair of Hsu VTF3s for the same price, that system will roll over the Velodyne without contest. The Optimum 12 would be good for five or six hundred, but for 1500 it is a pretty sad subwoofer.

Interesting. Taking a purely technical viewpoint (for the purpose of discussion only), I come up with the following FR curve for the CR9 (purple line)



Compare this to a compettve benchmark speaker from a source that I use as a reference for price/performance (Infinity P360 now updated as the P363):



Finally, about as close to a tech review of a Klipsch RF7 as I can find is this review of the smaller Klipsch RB61 which may share technology with the RF 7's.



The first thing that leaps out at me is that rather pronounced upper mid-range suck out from 2 to 7 KHz in the CR9. OK, the eq of your receiver will fix this, but why favor a speaker that needs fixing right out of the box? I suspect that this dip is 100% intentional, and gives a more laid back sort of sonic presentation in the demo room.

In contrast the P360 and the RF7 are pretty much smooth and flat.

All three speakers have response down to at least 80 Hz so they are a good choice to use with subs, but the RB61 pretty well eats the lunch of the other 2 if you are looking at them as stand-alone speakers.

From a smoothness standpoint, the on axis response of the P360 is hard to beat.

Other than that, I think that with the sort of budget you're talking about, a 12" sub is on the weak side. I agree with the recommendations that you look at Hsu, but let me gently suggest you set your sights higher, even if it means trying to save a little money on the mains.

As far as the 120 inch projection system goes, I've let my freak flag show - I favor projectors in a box, AKA Mitsubishi DLP TV's. Their largest is 92 inches. I'm very happy with a 60" in a room that is significantly larger than yours. The smallest DLP TV you can get these days is a 73" and this is really a lot of picture.

+1

let's throw something else into the mix...

3 seaton cat 8's for lcr - $7500
4 seaton sparks for surrounds - $5600
2 seaton submersive hp's - $4400

add in shipping, and that comes in under the $20k number...

then there's jtr's as well... and some others... personally, i wouldn't even consider the b&w's, there are many "better" options...

fwiw, i'd go with a front projector too... although to put a 120" screen in there, you'll likely need to go acoustically transparent with a false wall...

JL Audio is like Velodyne, good subwoofer but poor value. Some higher value subwoofers with great performance is Hsu, Rythmik, Seaton, JTR, Funk Audio, Danley Sound Labs, SVS, Outlaw Audio, and Chase. If you are into reference level sound, I would get a couple JTR Captivators. If you want high output at seriously deep frequencies, I would go for a couple Funk Audio 18.3 subs, or a bunch of Hsu ULS-15 subs. A couple of the above-mentioned Seaton Submersives would be a great system too.

The problem (or advantage, depending on how you look at it) with Klipsch is that they are horn loaded. You put a horn loaded speaker next to a natural curved speaker (like the B&W's) there is no contest. If you want something that is just going to be balls loud then absolutely go Klipsch, if you want to authentically reproduce your source material, Klipsch can't hold up to the B&w's. The cereameallic COATING of those speakers may be impressive, but why coat a speaker? You change the and morph the capability and the sonic response when you coat a speaker. When you have the naked Kevlar on the B&w's you get outstanding, quality, natural performance and reproduction.

I am by no means saying Klipsch is a bad brand... what I am saying is if there was a perfect speaker, companies would only sell one. What may be important to you (overall loudness from the sound of it) may be completely inept to someone like me (looking for authenticity in my audition and reproduction).

Hey Oven, have you auditioned any of these great suggestions yet?? Also, what part of the country are you in? if you're close by, come see me man. I live to do demo's all day long, and I will let the products speak for themselves.

Dynamics are a part of authentically reproducing source material, and Klipsch certainly bests B&W in this sense. Neither are the most accurate measuring loudspeaker in either case. If I want total accuracy I will go for some of JBL's higher end studio monitors over Klipsch or B&W anyway.

Before dismissing DLP all together, I think you need to look at the current Mitsubishi's. IME Sharp isn't in the same league any more.

I see some stereotypes being bandied about. A well-made so-called horn loaded system need not sound any more or less natural than a conventional direct radiator (e.g. dome). I think that Earl Geddes' Summa speakers make this point in the real world.

The inherent difference between horns and domes is that the domes tend to be hemispherical radiators, and modern horn or wave guide speakers tend to have narrower dispersion. The narrow dispersion of wave guides tends to make room acoustics somewhat less critical. In theory it also narrows the sweet spot, but usually the width of the sweet spot is controlled by other factors.

Just to blur the differences, people like JBL, Mackie and Behringer are putting dome direct radiators at the base of shallow waveguides (mostly in pro speakers) because within reason, controlled dispersion can be a very good thing.

It is true that horn loaded speakers can be more efficient at the extremes, but direct radiators can be nearly as efficient, and we don't see a lot of extremely efficient speakers in this market segment regardless (well, other than Geddes).

However, we can easily overcome efficiency with more powerful amplifiers, which is routinely done quite effectively. There can be some concerns with less efficient speakers and issues like power compression, but at the SPLs typically used in HT, that need not be an issue.

In the B&Ws I see a rather obvious attempt to produce a speaker that is colored to sound more laid back. Fire up Audessy, YPAO or MCACC and it mostly goes away.

It boils down to your own preference.  That is why it is better to listen to speakers before you buy them.  And of course, depending on your price range.

 

The only rule that I know of, is that 1/2 to 3/4 of your total budget should be for speakers.

You have very good counterpoints in your post and you seem to have a very unbiased opinion, which is greatly appreciated by someone like me. I wasn't trying to further any stereotypes, and you are correct. If implemented correctly, the hornloading can be a very desirable soundscape, specially if the room has not been acoustically treated in anyway. I currently own the Klipsch Quintet and the SW350 Sub (yes I know... It's nothing INCREDIBLE, but for the budget I had at the time it was the best performance I could get for the cash), so I am intimately familiar with the capabilities of Klipsch. Every time I go to work I am just sublimely taken back by the performance of the B&W's and they have quickly become my favorite speakers in our studio spaces. Outstanding performance at a fairly aggressive price point.

+1! I agree 100%! Always audition everything and put to your own taste! No one can hear/listen to them for you

Two very different speaker sets.  Curious how did you come to the decision that these were what you wanted?

How loud do you like to listen to movies? If you enjoy cranking it up and high impact home theater then the Klipsch setup you mentioned would totally be the ticket. If you rarely ever listen past -15 than the B&Ws would suit you fine.

You sorta showed up with a Chrysler Viper and a Cadillac Escalade and asked us to compare and contrast them...

To help you along with your search for the right speakers, do you see why I picked the cars I did, and which speakers go with which car?

A few more questions which will help anyone suggesting speakers:

 

• What is your actual budget for speakers only?  Since you already have your projector and AVR picked out, that should narrow down your budget constraints.
• Define your spl requirements, listening distance, and power available for speakers.
• Also, I would encourage you to read a bunch in the speaker forums as there are lots of Internet Direct companies which should fall into your pricepoint(whatever that is).
• Your room is not so large as to marry you to uber high sensitivity speakers so your gonna have some flexiblity when it comes to your speaker choices.
• How much real estate do you have available for speakers/subs?  Is WAF a factor?  What finish options do you require?
• Are you going A.T. on the screen?  Identical LCRs? 

 

Speaker/Sub recommendations are kinda funny, everyone has their pet.  Take any recommendation with a grain of salt, especially if I recommend speaker company "A" and I have speaker company "A" for my own system, that just means I like speaker company "A."

 

However, if you average the consensus of feedback here, you'll prob not go awfully wrong.