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Is an external DAC for the PC worth it if you have a good Sound Card? - Page 4

post #91 of 99
3/20/13 at 7:01am
Quote:
In a much earlier post, Mr. Krueger says a $25 sound card is as good as the best DAC. My questions are: Have Dac standards improved a lot over the last few years, so that this is true now but wasn't then? Or do you think that Mr. Aczel was really just juding the preamp? Or, was he also...misled?
Don't think so. Here's what he said about the Benchmark's sound:
Quote:
What the Benchmark DAC1 HDR adds to or subtracts from its input signal is borderline unmeasurable, so the sonic character of its output is obviously the sonic character of its input. It’s as simple as that. It has no sound of its own.
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post #92 of 99
3/20/13 at 7:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnarus View Post

Quote:
In a much earlier post, Mr. Krueger says a $25 sound card is as good as the best DAC. My questions are: Have Dac standards improved a lot over the last few years, so that this is true now but wasn't then? Or do you think that Mr. Aczel was really just juding the preamp? Or, was he also...misled?
Don't think so. Here's what he said about the Benchmark's sound:
Quote:
What the Benchmark DAC1 HDR adds to or subtracts from its input signal is borderline unmeasurable, so the sonic character of its output is obviously the sonic character of its input. It’s as simple as that. It has no sound of its own.

That statement about sonic character also applies to the vast majority of modern DACs, whether stand alone or incorporated in devices like AVRs or the Airport Express. It is possible that the wording may confuse some readers into thinking that it provides a unique or at least exceptional sonic advantage. It does not.
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post #93 of 99
3/20/13 at 3:22pm
"Is an external DAC for the PC worth it if you have a good Sound Card?"

No.
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post #94 of 99
3/20/13 at 5:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post

"Is an external DAC for the PC worth it if you have a good Sound Card?"

No.

But where is the cut off on "good" for a sound card? We heard (above) $25 for a sound card, but that seemed to be a kind of off-the-cuff general statement: perhaps some companies have a good $25 card, but maybe others don't. Last time I bought a sound card here in Taiwan (where I live) I got the impression they sort of jumped from very cheap to very expensive. Is there some statistic or number that identifies a card that is "good" as opposed to lousy?
Edited by Mookalafalas - 3/20/13 at 7:36pm
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post #95 of 99
3/20/13 at 10:35pm
Honestly, I don't know if anyone makes a defective DAC in a sound card because I haven't tested all the sound cards. Back when we did our bias controlled tests we tested an Audigy card among a pretty complete array of DAC's ranging up to $3000 in selling price and got no audible differences anywhere from the tests at all. We had a Sony Walkman and several CD and DVD players in the mix as well as a very expensive stand alone DAC. We were not able to get an audible difference from any pair of DAC's in the test. My off-the-cuff remark was an educated guess.

All the DAC chips appear to get the job done without injecting anything audible into the process. If one wanted to engineer some sonic signature into the process, it would need to be done in the analog stage after the conversion. I can't imagine why anyone would want to do that but it is possible, I suppose. So I think it is safe to say that you can remove the word "good" from the title and still get the same answer.
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post #96 of 99
3/21/13 at 2:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post

Honestly, I don't know if anyone makes a defective DAC in a sound card because I haven't tested all the sound cards. Back when we did our bias controlled tests we tested an Audigy card among a pretty complete array of DAC's ranging up to $3000 in selling price and got no audible differences anywhere from the tests at all. We had a Sony Walkman and several CD and DVD players in the mix as well as a very expensive stand alone DAC. We were not able to get an audible difference from any pair of DAC's in the test. My off-the-cuff remark was an educated guess.

All the DAC chips appear to get the job done without injecting anything audible into the process. If one wanted to engineer some sonic signature into the process, it would need to be done in the analog stage after the conversion. I can't imagine why anyone would want to do that but it is possible, I suppose. So I think it is safe to say that you can remove the word "good" from the title and still get the same answer.

Sweet. So I can spend $8.95 or $14,679.99 and I'll get the same thing? :-) I can't wait to tell my wife how much money I've saved this week :-D
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post #97 of 99
3/21/13 at 4:08am
Thread Starter 
Thank you for all your input on this.
You all rock.

I decided to not buy a DAC and keep using my soundcard's DAC.
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post #98 of 99
3/21/13 at 11:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mookalafalas View Post

Is there some statistic or number that identifies a card that is "good" as opposed to lousy?

Of course. It's called frequency response, distortion, and noise. biggrin.gif

This article from Skeptic magazine was written to bust audiophoole myths, but along the way it also explains how audio fidelity is defined:

Audiophoolery

--Ethan
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post #99 of 99
3/21/13 at 4:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post

Of course. It's called frequency response, distortion, and noise. biggrin.gif

This article from Skeptic magazine was written to bust audiophoole myths, but along the way it also explains how audio fidelity is defined:

Audiophoolery

--Ethan

Thanks. Nice article, and clearly written. I see now why vinyl/tube guys might prefer their system--especially for rock and roll, where, say, fans of string quartets would be less likely to.
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