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MITSUBISHI HC5, new 3D SXRD projector based on HC9000 2500 euros - Page 5

post #121 of 226
I just ordered my HC5. Can't wait to check it out. Only thing is, I ordered a Jamestown screen and who knows when that will show up. Anyone know where to buy a ceiling mount and an extra lamp for the HC5? Thanks in advance.
post #122 of 226
Ok, so who grabbed the ebay HC5 that was there last night for $1799?

Jason
post #123 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

Ok, so who grabbed the ebay HC5 that was there last night for $1799?

Jason
Me eek.gif
post #124 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by sn1ffb0 View Post

I just ordered my HC5. Can't wait to check it out. Only thing is, I ordered a Jamestown screen and who knows when that will show up. Anyone know where to buy a ceiling mount and an extra lamp for the HC5? Thanks in advance.

I have a reasonably priced universal mount that is holding mine just fine. Mitsubishi actually did a good job with the mounting holes on this one, I've had some that were in the center but the weight of the unit wasn't- that plays havoc with any mount other than the OEM mount.
post #125 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by sn1ffb0 View Post

Me eek.gif

Hehe, awesome!

Just wanted to make sure it was a fellow AVS'er.

Jason
post #126 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

I saw that modification on the cine4home site, I tried it with the HC8000 and didn't have much luck (5 pin mini-din -> 3.5mm stereo). I didn't spend a lot of time on it though, but would be curious to see it work.

A generous fellow member might send in his HC5 to add to the shootout thread. that's what makes this site great, video nerds from around the world uniting for a single cause... biggrin.gif

Elix, is this the Mitsubishi -> MV3D transmitter pin out you found?

HC8000-1.jpg
post #127 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

Elix, is this the Mitsubishi -> MV3D transmitter pin out you found?
Yeah. You had no luck with it? Finally HC5 will be in the shootout. I predict a 2nd place for it in 2D (I think it'll beat Sony HW50).
Man... 1799$ for a projector which sold for 8000$ 18 months ago is crazy good...
post #128 of 226
I am glad Elix is getting this one as I am nowhere near as technical as some of you, but I am hoping to have you validate my purchase. smile.gif


I was in a late meeting last night and did not even get to turn my HC5 on. However, my emitter and glasses did get here yesterday, so maybe I will be able to do some quality time over the next couple of days. I did get up this morning and played a bit with a calibration disc. I snagged the following shots with my phone before running out the door. Hopefully I can break out the tripod and camera this weekend.

Here is a pattern that shows how well the convergence is and also shows the sharpness is good. Not a great pic from a 10Mp phone camera, but all I had available this AM.



Here it is mounted. I am happy with this Universal Mount as this is my fourth (and largest) projector and all have mounted just fine with it.


Edited by larrimore - 5/16/13 at 9:20am
post #129 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elix View Post

Yeah. You had no luck with it?
I also tried making a convertor cable for the 3D emitter with no luck. I wrote Mits asking for the pinouts; we'll see if they send them.
post #130 of 226
I may try to post some screen shots tonight, but first I will give some observations.

I now have my HC5 set up with the 3D emitter and glasses and spent time last night with movies, sports and 3D enough to know that I am keeping this one. Every person in my family, including my wife who generally thinks this upgrade hobby is baloney and my 17 year old daughter who thinks her SD channels on her HDTV are HD and doesn't care, all immediately said, "this is much better than the one before" on 2D (I played HD trailers for upcoming films). This is the first time I ever had them say anything like this without coaxing since my upgrade from a 480p Epson Projector to a Panny AE500 (720p); they did not even notice the difference as much when I went from the Panny to an Epson 1080UB @1080p. While watching a bit of Finding Nemo from Starz HD, my wife even said, "You're definitely keeping this one, right?" as she knew I was thinking of trying a couple more PJs (Sharp 30K, JVC RS45). When we actually watched an entire movie last night (Hyde Park on Hudson BD), she remarked more than a few times about the quality- this is literally the first time since the days we went to HD that I have gotten these kinds of comments from her.

So, at that point I was smug and really proud of myself; so at the end of the movie, we decided to watch some 3D. I have to tell you that my wife and one daughter love 3D- much more than my older daughter and I. However, when I put on "IMAX Hubble" and then "Born to be Wild", I thought the accolades would continue. Well, they didn't but that was not all bad. My wife and daughters did not say a word until the end and it took me asking to get them to say that the 3D was good. When I pressed them, all I could get is that it was as enjoyable as our Optoma. Not a stellar review, but not a "look what have you done to better our lives" comment either. smile.gif

That being said, I noticed some flicker and ghosting almost immediately. Not overly distracting, but not up to the rock solid 3D from my Optoma DLP. For now, I am holding off on 2 PJ thoughts as I am loving this PJ for 2D, but I will tell you that if 3D is your "bag" then this one will fill it but not as well as a good DLP. Still, I could not let the 2D on this PJ go- it is that good (and not even fully calibrated yet).


More to come...
Edited by larrimore - 5/19/13 at 4:25pm
post #131 of 226
larrimore,

Thank you for the honest feedback, much appreciated.

Jason
post #132 of 226
Guys,
looking for the 3d emitter model# EY-3D-EMT1 for this projector same as for the HC9000d.
If you have one please let me know via PM.
thanks
post #133 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp View Post

larrimore,

Thank you for the honest feedback, much appreciated.

Jason


Also looking for some of the things mentioned in this and other threads to look for....

I have no bright corners or patches of irregular coloring, at least I can't see them on either black backgrounds or on other test material. Also, using Zombie's torture test image for sharpness, there is absolutely no change from corner to corner or top to bottom or side to side. Again, not DLP sharp but sharp and I mean SHARP. And, I can confirm that PC text is somehow more pleasing from this PJ than the Optoma DLP. Not sure how to express it, but it is akin to having the sharpness where it should be versus having it too high. It is readable and natural with the HC5 and it was almost sharp to a fault with the DLP (if that makes sense).

Just so you know, my unit is mounted roughly even with the top of my screen (ceiling mount) and is about 2 inches off center (the mount was put where it is on the ceiling to accommodate a PJ without a center-mounted lens). So, I am not using an inordinate amount of lens shift in either direction.
Edited by larrimore - 5/19/13 at 7:55am
post #134 of 226
I finally managed to get my optoma hd8600 up side by side with the hc5 this weekend. The hd8600 really is a nice unit and on bright scenes it really pops and looks great, but black on the hc5 is just multiple shades darker. Even on an all black image with the 8600's dynamic iris closed down all the way and the manual iris closed as far as possible, black is still a few shades darker on the hc5 with its manual iris at maximum open position and dynamic iris off. In actual content, the hc5 is far better at low light scenes as the dynamic iris on the 8600 can only do so much. Dark scenes are really the Achilles heel of the 8600 and I was quickly reminded why I bought the hc5. In summary, as expected, the hc5 is superior in dark content with blacker blacks and more on/off contrast, but gives up a little bright scene pop and sharpness over the 8600. For me, the improvements in dark scenes outweigh the slight step back in brightness, pop and sharpness. Add a motorized lens and far quieter operation, and for my theater, the hc5 is definitely a better fit for me. Both are excellent units though.

On another note, the bright corners vary drastically for me each time I turn my hc5 on. Sometimes I turn it on and they are hardly visible, other times I nearly fall off the couch because they are so bright. One thing that remains consistent though is that within minutes of starting up, the bright corners nearly disappear and are not even a slight distraction in an all black image.

After a while with my hc5, I remain very pleased with it. I've got 2 friends in line to buy it from me when I get the upgrade itch again, but I have to admit, I am going to have a hard time letting this thing go.
post #135 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by larrimore View Post

Also looking for some of the things mentioned in this and other threads to look for....

And, I can confirm that PC text is somehow more pleasing from this PJ than the Optoma DLP. Not sure how to express it, but it is akin to having the sharpness where it should be versus having it too high. It is readable and natural with the HC5 and it was almost sharp to a fault with the DLP (if that makes sense).

The HC5 is a winner, very impressive projector and best overall bang-for-buck yet. As always the 3D cannot match DLP, but everything else nearly it exceeds. BTW, I own the RS-45 and have seen the Mits hc9000d (hc5 twin), and I can say that if the hc5 were the same price as my RS-45 at the time (but I only saw the Mits recently), I would have bought the Mitsubishi instead. The RS-45 is a great projector, but IMO, the Mits comes semi-close on blacks and somehow looks a little more refined (I think it is processing). The Mits seems to process the image slightly better compared to my JVC. I would say that the RS-55 with e-shift might be able to beat the Mits (didn't see those two side-by-side, saw the RS-46 near the Mits). I was going to write a review of the Mits hc9000 and Benq w1070 (finally saw that one as well), but I am way too busy with my projector calculator at the moment to do anything (and Zombie will do it just as good or better than I can, so leave it to him). I actually saw a bunch more of the recent model PJ's the past few weeks by chance, but have to get back to work on this tool and stop being distracted!

I have the same feelings about my RS-45 vs. my Benq w7000 as you did vs. your Optoma hd8600. The text on the RS-45 and Mits hc9000d is more pleasing to me than most DLP's (including the Benq w7000). The text looks paper sharp and not overly rocky like on the BENQ w7000 or some DLP's. It is more relaxing to read text on my JVC than the Benq. That said, you get used to either and the differences are very small. As for sharpness, the DLP pixel fill and the way DLP processes the image is always going to tend to give a sort of advantage to DLP in some scenes, as it is almost like a default sharpening algorithm to the image even when there isn't one.

The Mitsubishi hc5 is an amazing projector at this price.

@Jimmy
I agree about the perceived loss in sharpness in some bright scenes (or perceptible increase in contrast) is overruled by these new LCOS ability to get very close to DLP in bright scenes, but to absolutely hammer them in the darker scenes. To me the DLP vs. LCOS battles are lost by DLP in the price ranges we are fighting them at, though there are higher-end DLP's that might counteract that imbalance somewhat (but I haven't A/B'd enough against higher-end DLP's to know). It's just hard to dump $3000 on a used DLP anyways, when we can get these deals on these LCOS (and fully motorized as well). Plus regardless, even the most expensive DLP's will still lose in native on/off to these projectors.
Edited by coderguy - 5/19/13 at 1:49pm
post #136 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post


I would say that the RS-55 with e-shift might be able to beat the Mits (didn't see those two side-by-side, saw the RS-46 near the Mits).

i'll have the HC5 and RS55 in a mini-shootout soon. There's been little objective info on the 3D, I want to see the lumen output and x-talk performance.
post #137 of 226
I played with the hc9000d for about 45 minutes (so it was a hit and run), and my impressions on the RS-46 (as to compare to the Mits hc9000d) looked the same as my RS-45 except for tiny tiny differences in lamp, but the Mits still beat it Therefore, I think the Mits beats the lower-end JVC's slightly. It could have been sample variance, we'll see what you find. I got to play with the RS-55 much longer, but so far I agree with Zombie in a way, the RS-55 is probably the best. I really cannot say for sure vs. the Mits, but I think the JVC e-shift does probably slightly beat it for some 2D (but at almost 3x the price!).

That said, the Mits really had something special about it compared to the RS-46 I saw, and like I said, don't have time to get thorough like Zombie (nor as much access), so we'll leave it up to him. That was just my quickie impressions. The Mits has me somewhat jealous though, better lamps and a little more refined image for less than I paid for my RS-45!
Edited by coderguy - 5/19/13 at 2:00pm
post #138 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

i'll have the HC5 and RS55 in a mini-shootout soon. There's been little objective info on the 3D, I want to see the lumen output and x-talk performance.

The 3D is pretty dim for large screens. By eye, I'm thinking you'll measure 550-700 lumens in 3D before glases, maybe less if the lamp isn't new (though I didn't measure it). I did not have time to compare in 3D, but this is a 2D projector like the JVC's that can do 3D ok.
post #139 of 226
The price some have been paying is a steal, I remember the comparisons between the HC9000 and the VW90 being similar.

it's a shame they left the LCOS market, it would have been nice for there to be a third competitor vs. Sony and JVC. The HC8000 did not impress me for the price point it was selling for.
post #140 of 226
Coderman has me interested in the HC5. I just wonder if its exactly what I need. I have some questions.

I see this is based on the 9000. The 9000 has a throw distance listed starting at 8.0 feet for a screen my size (97 inch), the HC5 is listed at 12 feet. Is that accurate? i need it to be able to fill my 97 inch screen from about 11 feet.

Where can I purchase this model where I will have a full warranty?

Does it have a good amount of horizontal and vertical lens shift? Coderman mentioned that it has lots of vertical but I need some vertical and some horizontal shift.

How does the lumens output compare to the Epson 5020 and Panny 8000? At only 1100 lumens, that seems extremely low compared to the others?

How is Mitsubishis CS? I just had a disaster dealing with Epson. My 8700 was nothing but problems and Epson didn't do the right thing to say then least.

Any help would be appreciated. This seems like a steao of a pj if I can get my hands on one.
post #141 of 226
I will double check the lens shift for you in a second. It's going to be tight I think, but should work. This is another advantage of the Mits over the JVC, much more lens shift.

Just for disclosure, I had to do a by eye calibration between the JVC and Mits, so I admit it could have been more thorough. I am saying that's what I saw for the setup I was in. It certainly didn't pummel the JVC RS-46, but something just looked better in the limited time I had. I used Batman TDKR because that was what he had.

EDITED:
Out of all the experiences, my best CS experiences are with Mitsubishi, but that was a few years back. Jon I sent you a PM requesting exact measurements for your setup so I can check.
Edited by coderguy - 5/19/13 at 2:43pm
post #142 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

i'll have the HC5 and RS55 in a mini-shootout soon. There's been little objective info on the 3D, I want to see the lumen output and x-talk performance.


I can't wait. I trust your analysis more than any other reviews (and that says a lot). Based on your previous screen shots in your shootout threads, I am thinking the Mits is very close to the Sony (figures) which puts it ahead of the JVCs but behind most of the DLPs.

That being said, I own 1700 2D movies and about 40 3D versions. At that ration, 2D means a lot more to me. In fact, on some that I like in both formats (like Dredd, Top Gun and even most animation like Wreck it Ralph), I prefer to watch it in 2D as I can do some second screen viewing/work while I do.
post #143 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by coderguy View Post

The 3D is pretty dim for large screens. By eye, I'm thinking you'll measure 550-700 lumens in 3D before glases, maybe less if the lamp isn't new (though I didn't measure it). I did not have time to compare in 3D, but this is a 2D projector like the JVC's that can do 3D ok.

I'll agree with that. The 3D looks far better on this unit with the Cinema settings IMHO. However, that is dim enough that I notice it- and I use a 92" (.9 high contrast grey) or 100" (1.1 matte white) screen (right now the 92 is in my setup). So I have had to resort to the 3D preset which makes the Xtalk and flicker worse.
post #144 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Meno View Post

Coderman has me interested in the HC5. I just wonder if its exactly what I need. I have some questions.

I see this is based on the 9000. The 9000 has a throw distance listed starting at 8.0 feet for a screen my size (97 inch), the HC5 is listed at 12 feet. Is that accurate? i need it to be able to fill my 97 inch screen from about 11 feet.

Where can I purchase this model where I will have a full warranty?

Does it have a good amount of horizontal and vertical lens shift? Coderman mentioned that it has lots of vertical but I need some vertical and some horizontal shift.

How does the lumens output compare to the Epson 5020 and Panny 8000? At only 1100 lumens, that seems extremely low compared to the others?

How is Mitsubishis CS? I just had a disaster dealing with Epson. My 8700 was nothing but problems and Epson didn't do the right thing to say then least.

Any help would be appreciated. This seems like a steao of a pj if I can get my hands on one.

I have had a couple of Mitsubishi PJs and the service was great on the one I needed help on (purchased from BestBuy but handled the issue through Mits). On this one, I bought it from a seller who specifically told me he is a Mits dealer, but I bought the Square Trade warranty for backup.
post #145 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by larrimore View Post

I have had a couple of Mitsubishi PJs and the service was great on the one I needed help on (purchased from BestBuy but handled the issue through Mits). On this one, I bought it from a seller who specifically told me he is a Mits dealer, but I bought the Square Trade warranty for backup.

Good to hear! Thanks for that! I might take a stab to buy this! Now if I can get my other quesitons answered.

I see this is based on the 9000. The 9000 has a throw distance listed starting at 8.0 feet for a screen my size (97 inch), the HC5 is listed at 12 feet. Is that accurate? i need it to be able to fill my 97 inch screen from about 11 feet.

Where can I purchase this model where I will have a full warranty?

Does it have a good amount of horizontal and vertical lens shift? Coderman mentioned that it has lots of vertical but I need some vertical and some horizontal shift.

How does the lumens output compare to the Epson 5020 and Panny 8000? At only 1100 lumens, that seems extremely low compared to the others?
post #146 of 226
I'm really confused about the HC5 lumens output. It's rated at only 1100 ANSI. The Epson 5020 and Panny 8000 have 2400 ANSI. The Sony Sony VPL-HW50ES is listed at only 1700 ANSI. Now in reading the reviews it seems that the Sony is brighter than the Epson and Panny in 3d even though those are rated with an extra 700 Lumens! Then I'm reading that the HC5 has a brighter picture than the Sony. So according to the numbers from brightest to dimmest the ratings would be 1) Epson 5020/Panny 8000, 2) Sony VPL-HW50ES, 3) Mitsubishi HC50. But according to the reviews it seems to be the absolute opposite! According to the reviews from brightest to dimmest it would be 1) Mitsubishi HC5, 2) Sony VPL-HW50ES, 3) Epson 5020/Panny 8000.

WTF!!! eek.gif
post #147 of 226
It's because there is what is called a best mode (which is what we watch most content in) and a torch mode.

LCOS projectors do not have bright torch modes, the Mitsubishi at closest throw is very similar to the Epson 5010 at closest throw in brightness and similar to the newer JVC's.
If you need an ambient light mode / torch mode to watch with some lights on in the room, it will struggle.

That said, this projector is plenty bright for 2D on any 97" screen that you have.

According to the hc9000 manual, the projector's vertical shift can be moved 49" above the center of the screen, or about 24 inches above the top of a 100" 16:9 screen at maximum v-shift. Maximum horizontal with no vertical is 39" to the right of center. Sometimes I make mistakes on these things as every manual describes it a little differently and looking at these things all day can make me dyslexic or see double.
Edited by coderguy - 5/19/13 at 3:59pm
post #148 of 226
Screen Shots:

I am not a pro like some here, so take these with a grain of salt...no, "you're pushing red!", "whites are overblown!" , etc., etc., comments. These are thrown together for your limited benefit with my 18MP point and shoot. If you want more accurate details and screens, see Zombie's review at some point or pics form Elix.








I would point out that only one of these does not reproduce well in the forums and that is the PC text shot. It looks much better in real life and at real size (4320 X 3240).
post #149 of 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Meno View Post

I'm really confused about the HC5 lumens output. It's rated at only 1100 ANSI. The Epson 5020 and Panny 8000 have 2400 ANSI. The Sony Sony VPL-HW50ES is listed at only 1700 ANSI. Now in reading the reviews it seems that the Sony is brighter than the Epson and Panny in 3d even though those are rated with an extra 700 Lumens! Then I'm reading that the HC5 has a brighter picture than the Sony. So according to the numbers from brightest to dimmest the ratings would be 1) Epson 5020/Panny 8000, 2) Sony VPL-HW50ES, 3) Mitsubishi HC50. But according to the reviews it seems to be the absolute opposite! According to the reviews from brightest to dimmest it would be 1) Mitsubishi HC5, 2) Sony VPL-HW50ES, 3) Epson 5020/Panny 8000.

WTF!!! eek.gif

To clarify, the Mitsubishi would be on the lower end for 3D brightness of all the projectors, the Panny is brighter in 3D mode if you care. The Epson is far brighter in 3D, and the Sony is brighter in 2D and 3D than the Mits. That said, in 2D the Mits is plenty bright for most screen sizes under 120" even with minimal gain. 3D is usually going to be somewhat DIM on most of these projectors, unless you use a torch-gain like the Da-Lite High Power which essentially doubles the lumen output (technically it is just increasing the foot lamberts / fL, but it can be simpler to think in terms of lumens). Though at your screen size, it'd be bearable even for 3D, and great brightness for 2D.
post #150 of 226
Thanks everyone! The HC5 looks to be a stunning PJ for the money. Unfortunately the longer throw distance, and huge overall length of the PJ itself makes it impossible in my problem room. Looks like I'm stuck with a Panny 8000. mad.gif
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