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3D: How to Keep HD Audio with Non-3D Capable AVR

post #1 of 7
9/11/12 at 10:05am
Thread Starter 

My (simplified) setup:

Denon AVR-4308CI (HDMI1.3a)

Projector RS45 (3D capable)

Lumagen Mini3D (3D capable)

Bluray player (3D Capable, 1 HDMI out)

 

I'd like to playback 3D BluRay movies with my setup, while keeping the lossless, i.e. HD sound. Bitstreaming for 2D works perfectly by simply looping the HDMI signal through the AVR to the projector. However, with 3D material this does not work. From what I understand a simple HDMI splitter or matrix switcher between player and AVR / projector will not work, as the signal contains video and audio. Since the AVR is not 3D capable, the entire signal chain is considered non-3D capable. This results in either no sound or video or both. I would need a device that strips the (3D) video portion out of the HDMI signal for the AVR signal path, while leaving the audio portion intact. On the same token this device would pass through the video (and audio) to the projector.

 

I have heard that certain video processors can do it, also Oppo players also have 2 HDMI out, maybe for this purpose. However, I am hoping for a less costly solution. 

 

Any ideas or suggestions?

 

TIA!

____

Axel 

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post #2 of 7
9/11/12 at 3:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel View Post

My (simplified) setup:
Denon AVR-4308CI (HDMI1.3a)
Projector RS45 (3D capable)
Lumagen Mini3D (3D capable)
Bluray player (3D Capable, 1 HDMI out)

I'd like to playback 3D BluRay movies with my setup, while keeping the lossless, i.e. HD sound. Bitstreaming for 2D works perfectly by simply looping the HDMI signal through the AVR to the projector. However, with 3D material this does not work. From what I understand a simple HDMI splitter or matrix switcher between player and AVR / projector will not work, as the signal contains video and audio. Since the AVR is not 3D capable, the entire signal chain is considered non-3D capable. This results in either no sound or video or both. I would need a device that strips the (3D) video portion out of the HDMI signal for the AVR signal path, while leaving the audio portion intact. On the same token this device would pass through the video (and audio) to the projector.

I have heard that certain video processors can do it, also Oppo players also have 2 HDMI out, maybe for this purpose. However, I am hoping for a less costly solution. 

Any ideas or suggestions?

TIA!
____
Axel 

That's exactly the reason the OPPO's have two outputs.

What you should remember is that a source can only send out one video and one audio signal at any given time. So, if you're asking for something that requires two audio signals (one for each type of device) then you are outside of what HDMI can provide. It isn't just a matter of stripping the audio and video into separate streams since your AVR still has to get a video and audio signal, which must be compatible with the AVR.

Your only other choice is a matrix switcher that provides a fake EDID that tells the video source that everything is 3D compatible. Keep in mind that means the signal will be output in 3D format and therefore you AVR won't know where the audio is located (it is different for 2D and 3D) in the stream. That would only be around $200+ instead of the OPPO's price but probably won't provide any audio with 3D.

Edit: Rereading your list of equipment, if all you're worried about is the Blu-Ray player, then send audio from the Blu-Ray into the multichannel RCA inputs of your Denon and then bypass the Denon with HDMI direct to the TV. The multichannel outputs will have the Blu-Ray high-rez audio already decoded. Just make sure to do the bass management in the Denon and not in the Blu-Ray player. I believe the 4308CI supports that (at least the 5xxx series does/did).
Edited by alk3997 - 9/11/12 at 3:40pm
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post #3 of 7
9/11/12 at 3:47pm
Check the listings for open box items at Best Buy. I found a Panasonic DMP-BDT310 at a local BBY - no remote or manual, but it had the dual HDMI outputs that I needed. Out the door for under $100. They are highly rated and still available new:
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=panasonic+dmp+bdt310&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=miF&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvns&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&biw=1920&bih=898&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=5101154017003873625&sa=X&ei=y71PUK38NOHc0QH4lYDIDA&ved=0CGIQ8wIwAA

Another option is to find either a new or used player with 5.1 (or more) analog outputs that you could connect to your multichannel inputs on your denon.

The Oppo BDP 93 is at end of life, but still available from the Oppo site for $415 for a refurb...

Or, try this splitter from Monoprice - $25...

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10113&cs_id=1011306&p_id=8204&seq=1&format=2

1X2 Mini HDMI® Splitter w/ 3D support
Play any source device like your Playstation 3®, Xbox 360®, 3D blu-ray player, or cable box on two displays simultaneously with this 1x2 splitter!

Supporting resolutions up to 1080p, while handling multiple high definition audio such as Dolby TrueHD™, Dolby® Digital Plus, DTS-HD Master Audio™, while also supporting LPCM audio formats.

This splitter is equipped with auto signal amplification & an equalizer which improves signal distance for slightly longer runs. Perfect for any home theater, business, or classroom application.

Features:

3D support
Video formats supported: 1080p, 1080i, 720p, 576p, 480p, 576i, 480i
Supports 'Deep Color' (10bit & 12bit)
HIgh definition audio supports: DTS-HD Mater Audio™, Dolby TrueHD™, LPCM 7.1, AC3, DTS, DSD


Synopsis: This High Speed HDMI® splitter gives you all the latest features and functionality. The splitter can be plugged into a single source (i.e. blu-ray player, Playstation 3®, Xbox 360®, or HD cable box) allowing you to output the video and audio to 2 separate displays.

Note: Monoprice strongly recommends the use of minimum 24 AWG HDMI® cables when connecting a device, such as this splitter, between the source and destination devices to ensure minimal signal loss and maximum High Speed signal reliability.
Edited by myoda - 9/11/12 at 4:10pm
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post #4 of 7
9/11/12 at 4:17pm
Thread Starter 

Quote:

Originally Posted by alk3997 View Post

........
Your only other choice is a matrix switcher that provides a fake EDID that tells the video source that everything is 3D compatible. Keep in mind that means the signal will be output in 3D format and therefore you AVR won't know where the audio is located (it is different for 2D and 3D) in the stream. That would only be around $200+ instead of the OPPO's price but probably won't provide any audio with 3D.

 

Yes, I was thinking more along the lines of a matrix switcher, but this "...is located (it is different for 2D and 3D) in the stream..." does not sound very encouraging.

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by alk3997 View Post

........
Edit: Rereading your list of equipment, if all you're worried about is the Blu-Ray player, then send audio from the Blu-Ray into the multichannel RCA inputs of your Denon and then bypass the Denon with HDMI direct to the TV. The multichannel outputs will have the Blu-Ray high-rez audio already decoded. Just make sure to do the bass management in the Denon and not in the Blu-Ray player. I believe the 4308CI supports that (at least the 5xxx series does/did).

Unfortunately, my player does not have 'enough' multichannel RCA outs, only stereo, otherwise a very good idea. Thanks!

 

____

Axel

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post #5 of 7
9/11/12 at 4:23pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by myoda View Post

Check the listings for open box items at Best Buy. I found a Panasonic DMP-BDT310 at a local BBY - no remote or manual, but it had the dual HDMI outputs that I needed. Out the door for under $100. They are highly rated and still available new:
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=panasonic+dmp+bdt310&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=miF&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvns&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&biw=1920&bih=898&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=5101154017003873625&sa=X&ei=y71PUK38NOHc0QH4lYDIDA&ved=0CGIQ8wIwAA

Another option is to find either a new or used player with 5.1 (or more) analog outputs that you could connect to your multichannel inputs on your denon.

The Oppo BDP 93 is at end of life, but still available from the Oppo site for $415 for a refurb...

Or, try this splitter from Monoprice - $25...

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10113&cs_id=1011306&p_id=8204&seq=1&format=2

1X2 Mini HDMI® Splitter w/ 3D support
Play any source device like your Playstation 3®, Xbox 360®, 3D blu-ray player, or cable box on two displays simultaneously with this 1x2 splitter!

Supporting resolutions up to 1080p, while handling multiple high definition audio such as Dolby TrueHD™, Dolby® Digital Plus, DTS-HD Master Audio™, while also supporting LPCM audio formats.

This splitter is equipped with auto signal amplification & an equalizer which improves signal distance for slightly longer runs. Perfect for any home theater, business, or classroom application.

Features:

3D support
Video formats supported: 1080p, 1080i, 720p, 576p, 480p, 576i, 480i
Supports 'Deep Color' (10bit & 12bit)
HIgh definition audio supports: DTS-HD Mater Audio™, Dolby TrueHD™, LPCM 7.1, AC3, DTS, DSD


Synopsis: This High Speed HDMI® splitter gives you all the latest features and functionality. The splitter can be plugged into a single source (i.e. blu-ray player, Playstation 3®, Xbox 360®, or HD cable box) allowing you to output the video and audio to 2 separate displays.

Note: Monoprice strongly recommends the use of minimum 24 AWG HDMI® cables when connecting a device, such as this splitter, between the source and destination devices to ensure minimal signal loss and maximum High Speed signal reliability.

 

 

Thanks for your suggestions.

 

I actually tried a monoprice matrix switcher (4x2). It did not work. I think the reason is that a regular switcher (or splitter) only 'duplicates' the signal and then my AVR cannot handle the '3D audio' signal.

 

_____

Axel

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post #6 of 7
9/11/12 at 4:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel View Post

Quote:
Unfortunately, my player does not have 'enough' multichannel RCA outs, only stereo, otherwise a very good idea. Thanks!

____
Axel

You will not be able to get a 2D-capable AVR to play audio from a 3D source, unfortunately. Splitters don't do anything to change that. It takes a hardware/firmware update to the AVR to do that and unfortunately the 4803 does not have the hardware necessary.

If you go with the multichannel analog audio route, your total cost for the upgrade is about as cheap as it will get. BD players with multichannel audio outputs are cheaper than any other alternative I can think of.
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post #7 of 7
9/11/12 at 5:09pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by alk3997 View Post

......
If you go with the multichannel analog audio route, your total cost for the upgrade is about as cheap as it will get. BD players with multichannel audio outputs are cheaper than any other alternative I can think of.

 

 

Thanks Andy. Looks like either analog out or a player with dual HDMI as myoda posted are my best options.

 

_____

Axel

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