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The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 35

post #1021 of 7686
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

AFAIK, the "2CH Playback" settings (p. 145 OM) should always be available. Try setting AMP ASSIGN to "9.1CH/2CH Front".

I have a 7.2 setup and the 2ch options are grayed out for me as well.

I think they must not be configurable unless you set up the amp assignment for 2ch audio.

OTOH, if you don't have dedicated separate fronts for 2 channel, why would you need separate 2ch settings?
post #1022 of 7686
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Joe, I want to make sure your situation was similar to mine. Had you actually done more than one calibration on the 4520? If no, then there wouldn't be a previous calibration to revert to. If yes, were the differences between the two calibration settings such that it would be obvious that the settings reverted? For example, the distance setting for my mains with the previous calibration was 9.9', and the current calibration has the distance as 10.0', so I immediately noticed a difference. Just checking...

I have done several calibrations, but my settings held after firmware update.
post #1023 of 7686
Quote:
Originally Posted by RSTide View Post

I have a 7.2 setup and the 2ch options are grayed out for me as well.
I think they must not be configurable unless you set up the amp assignment for 2ch audio.
OTOH, if you don't have dedicated separate fronts for 2 channel, why would you need separate 2ch settings?

Because on all past year's models, the 2CH custom settings also applies to the FL/FR speakers in either STEREO/DIRECT modes.
post #1024 of 7686
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Joe, I want to make sure your situation was similar to mine. Had you actually done more than one calibration on the 4520? If no, then there wouldn't be a previous calibration to revert to. If yes, were the differences between the two calibration settings such that it would be obvious that the settings reverted? For example, the distance setting for my mains with the previous calibration was 9.9', and the current calibration has the distance as 10.0', so I immediately noticed a difference. Just checking...

IIRC, not every 4311CI owner noted having their settings revert back to the earlier calibration with sudden loss of power. As the AVR shuts down and powers back up during the firmware update process, the issue may be somehow linked and therefore may not be consistant across all units.
post #1025 of 7686
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

IIRC, not every 4311CI owner noted having their settings revert back to the earlier calibration with sudden loss of power. As the AVR shuts down and powers back up during the firmware update process, the issue may be somehow linked and therefore may not be consistant across all units.

That may well be the case, JD. Due to this inconsistency, I still think my advice to have a successful save before doing a FW update is a good one. The thing that has always confused me is, when the AVR reverts to a previous calibration, where is that previous data being saved?
post #1026 of 7686
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Because on all past year's models, the 2CH custom settings also applies to the FL/FR speakers in either STEREO/DIRECT modes.

OK, I'm back in front of my unit, and I can get the 2CH Playback setting to be enabled by selecting "9.1ch/2ch Front" in Amp Assign. Since this Amp Assign doesn't match my configuration, this isn't a solution for me. I don't think this is the away it should work, based on how the 4311 worked. Should I open a case with Denon?
post #1027 of 7686
Quote:
Originally Posted by nismo604 View Post

Joe, I've read your review and you mentioned that the Onkyo and Denon sound different, but didn't elaborate in what way. Can you please expand on how they differ sonically? Also what makes the XT32 better on the Denon?

Everyone hears differently. I have had Onkyo Receivers in my set up for a long time. There is a difference in sound as there was when I had the Sony 5700ES set up or other brands. It's hard to explain. In no way am I claiming one sounds better than the other. It is just a matter of taste. Best bet is to try and demo them somewhere... smile.gif
post #1028 of 7686
Through the web interface it is still possible to change 2CH playback mode, even when grayed out on screen.
post #1029 of 7686
Quote:
Originally Posted by RSTide View Post

I have a 7.2 setup and the 2ch options are grayed out for me as well.
I think they must not be configurable unless you set up the amp assignment for 2ch audio.
OTOH, if you don't have dedicated separate fronts for 2 channel, why would you need separate 2ch settings?

For an all analog path in (pure) direct mode the subwoofer can be used without bass management by setting speakers as Large with LFE+main and a low trim.
post #1030 of 7686
Is there any difference between the Audyssey MultEQ XT32 on the 4311CI vs. the 4520CI?

A reviewer on amazon said that even though Denon claims there is no difference between the two different models the amazon reviewer felt otherwise saying "They tweaked the Audyssey even though Denon claims they didn't, because I'm getting significant different results from my AVR-4311ci in the same room, same speakers, same everything" (compared to the AVR-4520CI)

He felt the Audyssey MultEQ XT32 was tweaked for the better on the 4520.

User review here: http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR-4520CI-Networking-Theater-Receiver/dp/B0092KZCKC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1353438034&sr=8-1&keywords=avr-4520

Maybe Batpig would know the answer to this?
post #1031 of 7686
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaxtros View Post

Is there any difference between the Audyssey MultEQ XT32 on the 4311CI vs. the 4520CI?
A reviewer on amazon said that even though Denon claims there is no difference between the two different models the amazon reviewer felt otherwise saying "They tweaked the Audyssey even though Denon claims they didn't, because I'm getting significant different results from my AVR-4311ci in the same room, same speakers, same everything" (compared to the AVR-4520CI)
He felt the Audyssey MultEQ XT32 was tweaked for the better on the 4520.
User review here: http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR-4520CI-Networking-Theater-Receiver/dp/B0092KZCKC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1353438034&sr=8-1&keywords=avr-4520
Maybe Batpig would know the answer to this?

That's my review. I posted my results in this thread. I still stand by the statement that there must be a difference in the Audyssey XT32 because massive differences in levels.

I thought maybe I had a screw up, so I went back and re tried the AVR-4311ci after posting my comments in here, and got the same results. The levels between the AVR-4311ci and AVR-4520ci are much different even with the same speakers, angles, room layout, mic locations, tripod, etc.

For music playback (blu ray concerts) it personally sounded better to me.
post #1032 of 7686
I am having a lot of problems with surround sound. Whenever I select the surround option on U-verse my system goes to hell. Among other things I lose sound altogether, the record function is disabled, the box locks up, no signal gets passed to the TV. As long as I select stereo everything seems to work fine. This happens whether I am connected to the 4520 or I go direct to the TV. U-verse says I can't use HDMI the only way to make this work is to go to component and optical.

If I go component and optical to the 4520, can I go HDMI from the 4520 to the TV? Will I get my surround if I do this? Will this work if the 4520 is in standby? When the 4520 is in standby all I want is a picture and regular sound.

On a different subject is the 4520 compatible with Windows 8?
post #1033 of 7686
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaxtros View Post

Is there any difference between the Audyssey MultEQ XT32 on the 4311CI vs. the 4520CI?
 

 

I have commented on this previously, and I have asked Audyssey directly.  Audyssey states very strongly that they made no changes to XT32 between the 4311 and the 4520.  My results are fairly close to eachother, except with regards to the distance calculation for the second sub.  This distance calculation difference also results in a different bass response at the splice (80 Hz).  Here is some data:

 

700

 

In the above data, there are slight variations in distances and trims, but only because of some minor adjustments to where my MLP is located.  Certainly not huge differences.  Except for the distance for sub2.  The 4311 value is way off, and the 4520 value is spot on.

 

700

 

In these response graphs, everything except the 60-90 Hz range is quite similar.  I attribute the 60-90 Hz difference to the speaker distance differences.

post #1034 of 7686
Microphone variation?
post #1035 of 7686
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottshiv View Post

If I go component and optical to the 4520, can I go HDMI from the 4520 to the TV? Will I get my surround if I do this?
Yes, it will convert it and output it to the HDMI for you. Yes, you will get surround.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottshiv View Post

Will this work if the 4520 is in standby? When the 4520 is in standby all I want is a picture and regular sound.
No, only an HDMI input can be passed through while the unit is on standby.
post #1036 of 7686
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

Microphone variation?

Do you mean microphone position? I doubt that a difference in position could account for the difference between 3.4' and 11'. If you are talking about the actual mic, the same mic was used on both calibrations.
post #1037 of 7686

I just completed the firmware update and checked the prior settings to the post firmware settings.  No difference.  The update took the indicated 45 minutes and completed without issue.  I am on my 3rd (possibly 4th, I forget) calibration and the previous one was different as I had adjusted the positioning/angle of the Wides, so any difference should be picked up.  There was none.

post #1038 of 7686
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

My point was that you say you "pushed the 'sub' volume to zero" which I took to mean you adjusted the level with the remote rather than reducing the gain on the sub and running Audyssey again.

Oh, thanks ... I thought that the separate "subwoofer level" menu option was meant as a correction for wrongly-encoded discs. tongue.gif

Now, I see that you can't easily adjust channel levels (unlike the 4311), except for the subwoofer which has that special menu item.

Mark
post #1039 of 7686

The following case has been logged with Denon Support:

 

"The AVR-4520, like its predecessor the AVR-4311, allows a custom configuration for 2-channel playback.  On the 4520, this menu option is grayed out and inaccessible.  I have a full 11.1 speaker configuration, with Amp Assign set to "Discrete 11.1ch", with Main Pre-amps set to "Front".  Please advise how the 2ch Playback Menu can be accessed."

post #1040 of 7686
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

That may well be the case, JD. Due to this inconsistency, I still think my advice to have a successful save before doing a FW update is a good one. The thing that has always confused me is, when the AVR reverts to a previous calibration, where is that previous data being saved?

I agree with your recommendation (ie. Save before firmware update).
post #1041 of 7686
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaxtros View Post

Is there any difference between the Audyssey MultEQ XT32 on the 4311CI vs. the 4520CI?
A reviewer on amazon said that even though Denon claims there is no difference between the two different models the amazon reviewer felt otherwise saying "They tweaked the Audyssey even though Denon claims they didn't, because I'm getting significant different results from my AVR-4311ci in the same room, same speakers, same everything" (compared to the AVR-4520CI)
He felt the Audyssey MultEQ XT32 was tweaked for the better on the 4520.
User review here: http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR-4520CI-Networking-Theater-Receiver/dp/B0092KZCKC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1353438034&sr=8-1&keywords=avr-4520

Audyssey has already indicated there has been no change in XT32 from the 4311CI to the 4520CI, rather the only difference is there is one more processor on the 4520CI.
post #1042 of 7686
There may not be a change in implementation but they do sound different. Obviously in the 4520's favor. I'm sure Denon has made some strides in performance in the last two years. That's what I was told anyway. smile.gif
post #1043 of 7686
When I was using my Denon 3802, I bought an apple universal dock which had a USB to apple connector that supplied power and RCA to mini plug that supplied audio via my analog audio inputs on the 3802.

When I use that dock, plugged into the 4520, as expected I do not get audio via the USB plugged in to the dock. (since I expect that this dock sends its audio only via audio out connector.

Does anyone know a dock that just allows sitting the iphone in the dock, with the usb connector just plugging into the back, supplying both audio, video and charging via the USB that plugs into the back of the 4520?
post #1044 of 7686
I've moved from a 4308 to the 4520 and like it as a whole. I have noticed something I wanted to understand however.

My plan is to add an xpa-3 to offload the front and center channels letting the amp drive the sourounds so I started tinkering with the amp assign functions.

I find that if I define a custom amp assignment config I can no longer enable Audessey. In the Audyssey section under setup / audio I only get options to enable the Graphic EQ or tun it off all together.

This condition continues even after re-running Audessey calibration. It runs the calibration, indicates it enables Audyssey but when you look in the Audio / Audyssey

Is this SOP? With a custom amp assignments you can not use Audyssey MulitEQ XT32?

When I drop the XPA-3 in and use a custom pre-amp config will this continue to be the case?


This is under the current firmware update release, the 45 minute one...


rgds,

SteveDiG
post #1045 of 7686
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveDiG View Post

I've moved from a 4308 to the 4520 and like it as a whole. I have noticed something I wanted to understand however.
My plan is to add an xpa-3 to offload the front and center channels letting the amp drive the sourounds so I started tinkering with the amp assign functions.
I find that if I define a custom amp assignment config I can no longer enable Audessey. In the Audyssey section under setup / audio I only get options to enable the Graphic EQ or tun it off all together.
This condition continues even after re-running Audessey calibration. It runs the calibration, indicates it enables Audyssey but when you look in the Audio / Audyssey
Is this SOP? With a custom amp assignments you can not use Audyssey MulitEQ XT32?
When I drop the XPA-3 in and use a custom pre-amp config will this continue to be the case?
This is under the current firmware update release, the 45 minute one...
rgds,
SteveDiG

Not sure about the custom amp assignment, but I have the XPA-3 driving the front three speakers. In the amp assign, I simply select 11.1, with the second option set to "Front". Audyssey works fine in this configuration. If you don't have a full 11.1 configuration, simply use Amp Assign = Normal and connect the XPA-3 to the front pre-outs.
post #1046 of 7686
I am running a 7.2 setup, not 11.x.

This occurs when I choose the Custom amp assignment option and then go through leaving front, center & surround all default with the exception of the high/wide amp which I set to None as there are no speakers attached there... Once this is done Audyssey becomes a non option.

I havn't actually tried setting it to Custom and then leaving all the amps on as it is in the default config. Nor have I tried other configs like the default 5.1 / zone2 /zone3, or 7.1 biamp, etc...

It just seems odd to me that disabling the front high/wide amp would disable the ability to use Audyssey and thought perhaps there was something I had misconfigured here.
post #1047 of 7686
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

The thing that has always confused me is, when the AVR reverts to a previous calibration, where is that previous data being saved?
...and does it save more than just the previous one...if you had many firmware updates, would you keeping moving backwards through calibrations? Is it turtles all the way down? Beyond here lie dragons...
post #1048 of 7686
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveDiG View Post

I am running a 7.2 setup, not 11.x.
This occurs when I choose the Custom amp assignment option and then go through leaving front, center & surround all default with the exception of the high/wide amp which I set to None as there are no speakers attached there... Once this is done Audyssey becomes a non option.
I havn't actually tried setting it to Custom and then leaving all the amps on as it is in the default config. Nor have I tried other configs like the default 5.1 / zone2 /zone3, or 7.1 biamp, etc...
It just seems odd to me that disabling the front high/wide amp would disable the ability to use Audyssey and thought perhaps there was something I had misconfigured here.

 

Sorry, I used the wrong term in my original post.  "Normal" is not a selection on the 4520 (I was looking at my 4311 menu).  On the 4520, simply choose "7.1ch + Zone2".  Then hook the XPA-3 to the pre-outs.  Don't know why the Custom disables Audyssey as you have it configured.

post #1049 of 7686
Two things:

1) The fact that the AVR returns to a previous configuration after FW upgraded could be related to the fact that they use wear leveling algorithms when they save data to flash memory. Every write cycle to a flash chips adds "wear" to it and after a certain number of cycles (usually around 100000 or more depending on the chip), the data you read from flash is not guaranteed to be right. Since every little setting we change (like last input that returns after power off), we have to write to flash, they might have decided to implement an algorithm that will write the data to different locations of the chip every time they write to it. This way, it is not always the same flash cells that get written to, so it lengthens its life. So say we write a settings block to one section of the flash at the beginning, the next time we will have to write data to it, we will do it a little further on the chip and remember the location where we wrote. The older data still remains in flash but will not be read since we know where we last wrote the actual settings. So basically, the last, I don't know, 10 settings could coexist in flash but only the last one would be valid and used by the AVR. Now if they unfortunately have a bug in their code, it could be that once the FW upgrade is finished, the AVR reads an "older" section of the flash instead of reading the currently used one. This could explain what we observe here.

2) About the Custom Amp assign that makes Audyssey disabled, does it actually prevent you from doing a new calibration? Or does it only prevent you from activating the currently stored calib? If you can still start a new calibration, you will be able to set the amp assignment before hitting start. Then I think it will calibrate using your new config and then let you use it. My guess is that if you change the amp assignment, Audyssey gets disabled so you do not use settings that were calibrated to go with your older amp assignments.
post #1050 of 7686
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Sorry, I used the wrong term in my original post.  "Normal" is not a selection on the 4520 (I was looking at my 4311 menu).  On the 4520, simply choose "7.1ch + Zone2".  Then hook the XPA-3 to the pre-outs.  Don't know why the Custom disables Audyssey as you have it configured.

OK, I guess the engineer in me is trying to make this more complicated than it needs to be. I'm betting this will work but I still feel the need to disable internal amps that aren't being used. I can't help but think this would optimize performance for that are.
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