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The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 38

post #1111 of 7706
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

many here will you there is a significant sound quality difference in the 4311 vs 4520....for the record I have not owned( or demoed) either one
But..I seen several posts here that suggest "night and day" difference
Warren

People claim a lot of things - doesn't make them true. If there is any SQ difference between the two, it certainly isn't "night and day". I know several members who have owned both and report no SQ difference - either subjective or measured. Based on the specs for both units, why would you expect them to sound different?
post #1112 of 7706
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

if you are going that route
why dont you just buy a dedicated preamp?
The Emotiva will give you more "bang" than the receivers you mentioned
Buy a /refurb Onkyo 5508 preamp and a separate amp and sit back and be happy
I would bet you are happier with the sound of that than any of the receivers( standing alone) that you mentioned
Your requirements for that size room...even at reference levels of sound all day long with 4 ohm speakers...would be met all day long
Warren

As requested previously, this is the 4520 thread. Please take your discussion to a thread specific to your needs.
post #1113 of 7706
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

many here will you there is a significant sound quality difference in the 4311 vs 4520....for the record I have not owned( or demoed) either one
But..I seen several posts here that suggest "night and day" difference
Warren

I disagree. I have owned the 4311 for several years, and am still using it in my bedroom system. I upgraded to the 4520 several months ago. I would not use hyperbole such as "night and day difference" to compare the two AVR's. I have REW measurements of the calibrated results of both AVR's in the same listening room, same speakers, etc., as well as extensive listening tests, and IMO their performance is very close to each other. Based on my experience, if sound quality is the objective, a decision for either the 4311 or the 4520 would be an excellent one.

Edit: Like Bfreedma says! Turnne1, not sure why you think your comment adds value to this thread, since you admit that you have owned neither AVR, nor do you bother to quote the posts that support your opinion.
Edited by AustinJerry - 11/23/12 at 7:17am
post #1114 of 7706
Quote:
Originally Posted by TazExprez View Post

Yes, you can use it in Pre-Amp only mode and disable all of the internal amps.

Neither the 4311CI nor the 4520CI has the capability to "disable" the internal amps, rather Pre-Amp only mode simply prevents the signal from getting to the amps which remain powered ON all the time.
post #1115 of 7706
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

People claim a lot of things - doesn't make them true. If there is any SQ difference between the two, it certainly isn't "night and day". I know several members who have owned both and report no SQ difference - either subjective or measured. Based on the specs for both units, why would you expect them to sound different?

I dont expect much difference..... I would love to do a double blind test and see if I could tell which was which

I made that statement somewhat tongue in cheek ...as I have already seen a post here that claims a "HUGE" difference in SQ between the two from someone who made the change

Its always the case in these forums where someone upgraded from the prior model



Warren
post #1116 of 7706
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

I disagree. I have owned the 4311 for several years, and am still using it in my bedroom system. I upgraded to the 4520 several months ago. I would not use hyperbole such as "night and day difference" to compare the two AVR's. I have REW measurements of the calibrated results of both AVR's in the same listening room, same speakers, etc., as well as extensive listening tests, and IMO their performance is very close to each other. Based on my experience, if sound quality is the objective, a decision for either the 4311 or the 4520 would be an excellent one.
Edit: Like Bfreedma says! Turnne1, not sure why you think your comment adds value to this thread, since you admit that you have owned neither AVR, nor do you bother to quote the posts that support your opinion.

I agree with you

sorry...I should have made the notation in my opinion of a "night and day" difference

do you want me to go to the trouble of quoting the posts where it stated that there is a big difference in the two units?

As far as ownership...if I was convinced that the 4520 brought a lot more to the part than my Yamaha A3000 or Pioneer SC37 ..then it is conceivable that I would buy a 4520..and sell one of my other ones



Warren
Edited by turnne1 - 11/23/12 at 8:03am
post #1117 of 7706
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

As requested previously, this is the 4520 thread. Please take your discussion to a thread specific to your needs.

actually

I was replying to someone else's statements about their needs/questions

not the needs for my own system

as I stated before...

I am not sure you can get an objective opinion from a dedicated thread...but people do it day in and day out

Just like asking the same questions on page 30..that was answered on page one in the FAQ section...and then if the thread goes longer ...the same question will come up again on page 50..then page 70...well anyway you get the idea




Warren
post #1118 of 7706
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

many here will you there is a significant sound quality difference in the 4311 vs 4520....for the record I have not owned( or demoed) either one
But..I seen several posts here that suggest "night and day" difference
Warren

I disagree. I have owned the 4311 for several years, and am still using it in my bedroom system. I upgraded to the 4520 several months ago. I would not use hyperbole such as "night and day difference" to compare the two AVR's. I have REW measurements of the calibrated results of both AVR's in the same listening room, same speakers, etc., as well as extensive listening tests, and IMO their performance is very close to each other. Based on my experience, if sound quality is the objective, a decision for either the 4311 or the 4520 would be an excellent one.

Edit: Like Bfreedma says! Turnne1, not sure why you think your comment adds value to this thread, since you admit that you have owned neither AVR, nor do you bother to quote the posts that support your opinion.

+1... i'd eat my 4520 if someone could differentiate it in a controlled test from my previous a100...

anecdotal "comparisons" that indicate a "night and day" or "large/huge" differences between the units can be discarded...

graph don't lie...
post #1119 of 7706
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

Guys this is the 4520 thread, let's keep discussion on that.
Not how to fulfill your personal ht/sound needs, start a separate thread for that.


every product specific thread I have seen on this forum always has many who come in and ask for advice on what they should buy

unless there is a thread solely committed to actual owners of the product who can only post technical questions about set up..etc.....I am sure nothing will change about typical questions/discussions from thread to thread




Warren

Sure, except when posts get so off tangent and 4520 is no longer being the focus point .....
post #1120 of 7706
^^^

just put him on block mike... i already have him there from long ago when his choice of threads to crap on were the pio ones... wink.gif
post #1121 of 7706
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

+1... i'd eat my 4520 if someone could differentiate it in a controlled test from my previous a100...
anecdotal "comparisons" that indicate a "night and day" or "large/huge" differences between the units can be discarded...
graph don't lie...

agreed

thats why I laugh every time I see a comment like that



Warren
post #1122 of 7706
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^
just put him on block mike... i already have him there from long ago when his choice of threads to crap on were the pio ones... wink.gif

lol

do what works for you

..and then you quote me though....?

as for "crapping" on something..not sure about that..but you are entitled to your opinion

I am certainly no fanboy to any brand


Warren
post #1123 of 7706
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^

just put him on block mike... i already have him there from long ago when his choice of threads to crap on were the pio ones... wink.gif

He's a 2,000 plus poster here, so I hope it's just a lapse of judgement.
Peace and happy thanksgiving.
post #1124 of 7706
Hi guys. I am interested in updating my HT system and I am very interested in either the Denon 4520 or 3313. Just a quick background. I have Monitor Audio GS 60's in the front, GS 10's for surrounds and GS center. I am looking for a new sub that will match the speakers but currently have a velodyne sub. I have a NAD T785 but my center channel no longer works and I need to get the AVR repaired. However I was thinking this would be a good time to get a new AVR that has features I am looking for. I live in a condo so my HT system is in my living room so 5.1 system is all I will probably have. Although I am trying to convince my wife that 2 more speakers would not stand out too much lol.

Anyway I was wondering if anyone has any history with monitor audio speakers and how they match up with the Denon. I currently bi-wire into the speakers with my NAD. Also is the step up from the 3313 to 4520 worth it for the xt32? I probably won't be using more than the one zone and probably stay with 5.1 system. I was really thinking the xt32 would help with the acoustics in the room. Again it's a condo with an open floor plan and hard wood floors. Yes not ideal for HT.

Thanks for any help you guys can provide.
post #1125 of 7706
Sorry for the apparent hijacking of the 4520 thread. Guess I got carried away and considered comparison of the 4520 against other similar units to be fair game in the thread. But if the intent of the thread is to only discuss issues specific to the 4520, please accept my apology.

The good news is that my plans are gelling around the 4520 after all.

I have been exhibiting a "circling the drain" decision making methodology. Had narrowed it down to the NR5010 and 4520. Then added the SC-68 back in. Then assessed going with outboard amps and using the receiver as a processor/switch/pre-amp.

Final decision:

Will go with the 4520 if I can find acceptable pricing somewhere (and maintain factory warranty). I'll use it in a 5.1 configuration in my family room for a while where the floorplan largely precludes anything other than 5.1, but is where I have an immediate need for more modern connectivity options and HDMI switching capability. Then I'll migrate the unit to my dedicated media room upstairs where I have access to 3 walls and the ceiling so I can add the 11.2 capability and external amps as needed.

The flexibility, ease of use, and overall feature set of the 4520 won me over. If someone knows of anyone offering good pricing and full manufacturer warranty, let me know via PM. I'll start calling around now (including the sponsor of this web site).

- Steven
post #1126 of 7706
Quote:
Originally Posted by sstiles44 View Post

Hi guys. I am interested in updating my HT system and I am very interested in either the Denon 4520 or 3313. Just a quick background. I have Monitor Audio GS 60's in the front, GS 10's for surrounds and GS center. I am looking for a new sub that will match the speakers but currently have a velodyne sub. I have a NAD T785 but my center channel no longer works and I need to get the AVR repaired. However I was thinking this would be a good time to get a new AVR that has features I am looking for. I live in a condo so my HT system is in my living room so 5.1 system is all I will probably have. Although I am trying to convince my wife that 2 more speakers would not stand out too much lol.
Anyway I was wondering if anyone has any history with monitor audio speakers and how they match up with the Denon. I currently bi-wire into the speakers with my NAD. Also is the step up from the 3313 to 4520 worth it for the xt32? I probably won't be using more than the one zone and probably stay with 5.1 system. I was really thinking the xt32 would help with the acoustics in the room. Again it's a condo with an open floor plan and hard wood floors. Yes not ideal for HT.
Thanks for any help you guys can provide.

One thing you might want to consider since you are already bi-wiring your fronts, is that the AVR-4520CI is the only receiver in this range that allows to have a 7.1 system with bi-amped fronts (total of 9 amps used). I looked at a lot of models from different manufacturers including all the smaller Denon models (like the 3313) and they were all giving you the option of 5.1+bi-amp or 7.1, but not 7.1+bi-amp. So in the case you want to switch to 7.1 someday, that is something to consider. This is why I went with the 4520 instead of the 3313. Also the 4520 gives you 25 Watts per channel and is rated at 0.05% THD instead of 0.08%. So the 4520 has more capable amplifiers. And the Audyssey XT32 might give you a more precise room correction so if you find that your room is not well suited for HT, this might help.

Hope this helps!
post #1127 of 7706
Well, I pulled the trigger and ordered a new AVR-4520CI a few minutes ago. Thanks for the various responses and for tolerating the diversion from the main thread while I figured out what my strategy should be.

To help others that might be considering purchasing an AVR-4520CI, I suggest that you call around and negotiate. While most authorized internet retailers stuck with MSRP, there were a few that were willing to negotiate a modest discount over MSRP and a couple that were willing to offer some steep discounts.

Please note that there is a distinction with Denon between being an authorized dealer and an authorized internet dealer/retailer. The authorized internet dealers are the only ones that can ship outside their loca areas while still providing a factory warranty that Denon will honor. At least, this is what several internet retailers told me (I don't know how true this really is in practice).

If someone wants to know who gave the best prices, send me a PM.

I haven't bought a receiver for about 10 years since my two Pioneer Elites have performed spectacularly. I'm excited about the AVR-4520 and can hardly wait to get it and play with it :-) It ships today from Illinois and should not take too long to get to North Texas (Plano is just north of Dallas).

I'm sure you'll hear back from me once I start trying to set up the Denon and configure it cool.gif

- Steven
post #1128 of 7706
Quote:
Originally Posted by sstiles44 View Post

Hi guys. I am interested in updating my HT system and I am very interested in either the Denon 4520 or 3313. Just a quick background. I have Monitor Audio GS 60's in the front, GS 10's for surrounds and GS center. I am looking for a new sub that will match the speakers but currently have a velodyne sub. I have a NAD T785 but my center channel no longer works and I need to get the AVR repaired. However I was thinking this would be a good time to get a new AVR that has features I am looking for. I live in a condo so my HT system is in my living room so 5.1 system is all I will probably have. Although I am trying to convince my wife that 2 more speakers would not stand out too much lol.
Anyway I was wondering if anyone has any history with monitor audio speakers and how they match up with the Denon. I currently bi-wire into the speakers with my NAD. Also is the step up from the 3313 to 4520 worth it for the xt32? I probably won't be using more than the one zone and probably stay with 5.1 system. I was really thinking the xt32 would help with the acoustics in the room. Again it's a condo with an open floor plan and hard wood floors. Yes not ideal for HT.
Thanks for any help you guys can provide.

I had a 2809,4311 and 4520 with the GS 10 and LCR, they are fine.
The GS series is lovely for HT, but can be a bit bright for music. YMMV.
I found the step up from the XT equipped 2809 to the 4311 to be worthwhile for HT, but there was not much difference in SQ for music. Do it for HT.
All three were trounced by a Musical Fidelity A 5.5. Yes us chaps from down under believe that amps do impart a sonic signature...
post #1129 of 7706
In my struggle to find a good reason to upgrade from my 4311 to a 4520, I've stumbled on another cool feature, which is DTS Neo:x 11-channel music mode.

I have a large collection of music concerts and I often like to listen to them with Audyssey DSX 11-channels. DSX gives the impression that you are in a huge room, with artificial reflections coming from the wide and height speakers. The "sound envelopment" is pretty severe and you feel literally surrounded by the music. I find this very good for opera, orchestra and some types of broadway productions (such as Phantom of the Opera).

DTS Neo:x 11-channel music is more front-centric so it sounds like you are in a smaller room, maybe a jazz bar, instead of a grand opera house. For a lot of jazz and pop concerts, I like it a lot better than DSX.

I haven't experimented with movies yet. That would be my next experiment.

Has anyone experienced something similar with DTS Neo vs. Audyssey DSX?

Mark
post #1130 of 7706
I need to add Banana Plugs to my speaker wires in preparation for the new 4520.

What would you guys recommend for plugs that can handle a number of wire gauges ?

- Steven
post #1131 of 7706
Quote:
Originally Posted by scbartling View Post

I need to add Banana Plugs to my speaker wires in preparation for the new 4520.
What would you guys recommend for plugs that can handle a number of wire gauges ?
- Steven

I am very pleased with the plugs from BlueJeans Cable. http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/speaker/index.htm.
post #1132 of 7706
@steven...

i like these gls safe connect plugs... they cost a bit more than the monoprice ones that i used for years, but the insulated barrel and the "saw toothed" design of the wire connection make them worth it...

http://www.speakerrepair.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=safe_connect
post #1133 of 7706
Thanks guys, in addition to your favorite banana plugs, what do you use to try and cool the AVR-4520CI ?

- Steven
post #1134 of 7706
Quote:
Originally Posted by streetsmart88 View Post

In my struggle to find a good reason to upgrade from my 4311 to a 4520, I've stumbled on another cool feature, which is DTS Neo:x 11-channel music mode.
I have a large collection of music concerts and I often like to listen to them with Audyssey DSX 11-channels. DSX gives the impression that you are in a huge room, with artificial reflections coming from the wide and height speakers. The "sound envelopment" is pretty severe and you feel literally surrounded by the music. I find this very good for opera, orchestra and some types of broadway productions (such as Phantom of the Opera).
DTS Neo:x 11-channel music is more front-centric so it sounds like you are in a smaller room, maybe a jazz bar, instead of a grand opera house. For a lot of jazz and pop concerts, I like it a lot better than DSX.
I haven't experimented with movies yet. That would be my next experiment.
Has anyone experienced something similar with DTS Neo vs. Audyssey DSX?
Mark

Oh streetsmart, you're killing me.Ii too have the 4311 and I don't believe anyone who says the 4520 is sonically radically superior to the 4311. But..... if'n the Neo X offers gain in certain sources, movies, etc... if the wallet is fat it must be cracked. It is this new feature that I am most intrigued by. I guess an even better GUI is nice as well as having thr GUI overlay on 3D stuff. The rest of the new special stuff isn't enough for an upgrade. I am leaning to go seperates though with the new Marantz Pre. Love to hear about Neo X and Auyssey debates/comparisons. Keep it up.
post #1135 of 7706
Quote:
Originally Posted by scbartling View Post

Thanks guys, in addition to your favorite banana plugs, what do you use to try and cool the AVR-4520CI ?
- Steven

Love the coolerguys stuff. Can't say enough about this kit.

http://www.coolerguys.com/ccstandk.html

If you don't like that check out their USB fans and just plug into the AVR. Cheaper solution but not as much bling.
post #1136 of 7706
Thanks SeattleHTGuy. How do you turn the fans on and off ? It appears that the 4520 has dropped the switched 120v outlets.

- Steven
post #1137 of 7706
Quote:
Originally Posted by scbartling View Post

Thanks guys, in addition to your favorite banana plugs, what do you use to try and cool the AVR-4520CI ?
- Steven

Depends. Are you going to place it in a tight space? I have mine on an open shelf with plenty of ventilation, and I have never measured a temperature higher than ~130F.
post #1138 of 7706
The receiver will unfortunately be placed in a entertainment center that is built into a wall. There will only about 1.5in on the left and right sides and about 8 inches open above it. Ventilation is limited as a result.

- Steven
post #1139 of 7706
Quote:
Originally Posted by scbartling View Post

Thanks SeattleHTGuy. How do you turn the fans on and off ? It appears that the 4520 has dropped the switched 120v outlets.
- Steven

The kit comes with a power supply you must plug in. Their other kit is thermal controlled thus answering AustinJerry's question. If it doesn't get hot, it doesn't turn on. Really, I just leave it on all the time at a lower volume 2 big quiet fans running slowly seems to work well. Also, AustinJerry is correct, it's not like the 4311 I have gets all that hot but I figure for the cost of the 4311 or now 4520, a little cheap prevention can't hurt. For much less, again you could just get a couple of their twin USB fans and get a little more cheap air flow going. I just have noticed that no air flow is bad, a little just makes everything work better. I also have multiple ceton tuners and they require quite a bit of air ventialtion to keep them from shutting down in the same cabinet, different piece of equipment though.
post #1140 of 7706
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeattleHTGuy View Post

Oh streetsmart, you're killing me.Ii too have the 4311 and I don't believe anyone who says the 4520 is sonically radically superior to the 4311. But..... if'n the Neo X offers gain in certain sources, movies, etc... if the wallet is fat it must be cracked. It is this new feature that I am most intrigued by. I guess an even better GUI is nice as well as having thr GUI overlay on 3D stuff. The rest of the new special stuff isn't enough for an upgrade. I am leaning to go seperates though with the new Marantz Pre. Love to hear about Neo X and Auyssey debates/comparisons. Keep it up.

I think we are on the same wavelength. IMO, the sound quality of the 4520 is the same as the 4311. The difference is in the new features such as Neo X.

I am also liking the GUI a lot more than the 4311. Its much more user friendly and logical. Kinda like a Mac vs PC comparison.

Of course, the InstaPrevue feature for 5 different sources is really cool. Like a PIP on steroids.

And did I mention that its an inch higher than the 4311? Of course, we all know that the bigger size is an indisputable confirmation of much better build quality. tongue.gif

Mark
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