or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 5

post #121 of 7812
Quote:
Originally Posted by erwinfrombelgium View Post

Reading the Australian manual (thank you Batpig), it's nice to see the support for Apple Lossless (up to 96 kHz) from the USB/NAS etc. One can always use a Apple TV or Airport Express to get around this, but those are limited to 48 kHz. It doesn't state 24-bit so I hope it is not limited to 16-bit. And the optical out from a AE cannot be distributed to zone 2/3, while the network input can.
Strangely enough it doesn't support the uncompressed Apple format: AIFF. I use both ALAC and AIFF. Fair enough, I can always convert. Never noticed difference in SQ. Just figured AIFF would be more universal. Yeah right. Other devices support AIFF, but not ALAC (Cambridge Audio, I believe)!



I think that the standard lossless format these days is FLAC. Like everything with crApple, AIFF, ALAC, etc is just too proprietary. As long as it supports FLAC, that's really all that matters. And that crApple devices don't support FLAC is the reason why I avoid any of their products (and iTunes is simply THE worst piece of software in existence!).
post #122 of 7812
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post


yes... that is rather neat...
flint, couple more questions on insta-preview...
are the windows movable?
can they be re-sized?


The options with InstaPrevue are # of screens (choice of 1 or 5) and location.  Screens cannot be re-sized apparently, but they can be along the top, bottom, right or left and either in a row (if 5) or single.  You can highlight one of the screens by cursor and then switch to its input key on the remote to control it.  That's about as much as I know about InstaPrevue.

post #123 of 7812
Try powering on Zone 4 (no output connection necessary) and return to another source input in the main zone. Does InstaPrevue still work?
post #124 of 7812
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

yes... that is rather neat...
flint, couple more questions on insta-preview...
are the windows movable?
can they be re-sized?

I was wondering the same .. my Samsung HLS7178 has PIP, but it is the absolute most kludgy, useless deal and thus I never use it. I can't do PIP with two HDMI inputs or one HDMI and one component or S-Video. The second window is simply composite/RF- input. Useless!

I am probably expecting too much from an AVR, but this IS the first AVR (at least, to my knowledge) that offers an integrated, two-zone full matrix switch which is another reason that I am going to buy this receiver (plus, it eliminates my need to buy a separate matrix switch to send different video to other rooms. My wife monopolizes the big TV when football isn't on and I would like to watch MY shows in my office while she watches hers).

So .. is it possible to do a pseudo PIP with the 4520?
post #125 of 7812
Thread Starter 
Quote:
So .. is it possible to do a pseudo PIP with the 4520?

yes, it can do PIP with InstaPrevue but ONLY with SEPARATE hdmi inputs. So to watch two TV shows simultaneously would require two independent cable/sat boxes hooked up with HDMI.

same thing for the matrix output, if you had two TV tuners hooked up with HDMI you could view one in Main Zone and one in Zone 4.
post #126 of 7812
Sweet!

Now, if only I could find one for sale, in stock. It's killing me! Come on, Denon!!
post #127 of 7812
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Try powering on Zone 4 (no output connection necessary) and return to another source input in the main zone. Does InstaPrevue still work?


No, InstaPrevue does not work if Zone 4 is powered.  Nor does it work with 3D running.  Basically, it works as PIP but with separate sources and smallish, non-sizable screens.  On my big 2.35 screen I can actually watch what is in the windows.  But, on a 27" monitor in the equipment room, used just to make checks and adjustments without firing up the projector, the preview screens are probably too small to comfortably watch extended content if set as 5 screens.  It does work as a 'preview' of what the other sources are doing, but I don't know that I would qualify it as PIP exactly.  If using a single preview window, it is more watchable as this window is larger than the 5 mini-windows.

post #128 of 7812
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post


that's neat... I was wondering if it would "know" that there was an unused input and whether or not it would show blank PIP squares for the inputs that don't have an HDMI source plugged in. Good to know it's smart enough to only show active HDMI sources.


I had forgotten that I wanted to re-visit this post.  The Denon doesn't care if the input isn't used and does show blank pip squares if it's in the 5 window mode (not 4 as I mistakenly had said).   As I said, I have 4 connections running and it still shows the 5th inactive one.

post #129 of 7812
Is there a comparison list anywhere between this and the 4311?

I'm just wondering what the exact differences between the two are, so that I can justify whether or not to spend the extra $1k or so on this newer model.
post #130 of 7812
Quote:
Originally Posted by purbeast View Post

Is there a comparison list anywhere between this and the 4311?
I'm just wondering what the exact differences between the two are, so that I can justify whether or not to spend the extra $1k or so on this newer model.

JDS posted this a few pages back:

http://usa.denon.com/us/product/pages/productcomparision.aspx?pIDs=AVR4311CI(DenonNA)|avr4520ci(denonna)&catID=AVReceivers(DenonNA)
post #131 of 7812
Just noticed the comparison says Audyseey XT32 for the 4520, but no SubEQ. This is a mistake though, right? 4520 has SubEQ?
post #132 of 7812
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFLnut View Post

I think that the standard lossless format these days is FLAC. Like everything with crApple, AIFF, ALAC, etc is just too proprietary. As long as it supports FLAC, that's really all that matters. And that crApple devices don't support FLAC is the reason why I avoid any of their products (and iTunes is simply THE worst piece of software in existence!).

Thank you. Most helpfull...
post #133 of 7812
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DANNER View Post

Just noticed the comparison says Audyseey XT32 for the 4520, but no SubEQ. This is a mistake though, right? 4520 has SubEQ?

yes it does, you can only half-trust the online specs in the charts on the Denon website.
post #134 of 7812
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by purbeast View Post

Is there a comparison list anywhere between this and the 4311?

I'm just wondering what the exact differences between the two are, so that I can justify whether or not to spend the extra $1k or so on this newer model.

I'm going to work up a complete list soon and add it to the beginning of the thread in a FAQ in post #2.

In terms of "the basics" they are VERY similar -- similar overall array of inputs/outputs, same XT32 + SubEQ room calibration software, 9 amp channels with basically the same amp section, Audyssey DSX with 11ch expansion, etc.... they both have 6 rear + 1 front HDMI input with dual outputs for Main Zone, 3 component video inputs with 1 output for Main Zone, 7.1ch EXT IN analog inputs, full 11.2ch pre-outs, Phono input, two 12v trigger outs, 2 optical and 2 coax digital audio inputs, etc.

Really, nothing was taken away vs. the 4311 (except for those poor downtrodden S-video inputs!) so the question is do you want to pay extra for the new feature additions?:

- Zone 4 HDMI matrix output
- Component video output to Zone 2 and Zone 3 (4311 can only output comp video to Main Zone)
- Audyssey LFC
- DTS Neo:X if you want an alternative to DSX for 11ch expansion
- InstaPrevue
- 4-port ethernet hub
- More amp assign options plus the "custom" free assign mode
- Upgrade to 32/192 DAC's (and corresponding upgrades to AL32 processing and DDSC-HD32 circuitry)
- 4k video passthrough support and 4k upscaling
- AirPlay built in (no upgrade needed) and Spotify and Sirius/XM available as network streaming sources
- Network audio supports 192/24 FLAC and WAV streams
- Front HDMI input is MHL certified
- New GUI (also will overlay on 3D sources, the 4311 can't overlay graphics on 3D video)
- New front panel aesthetics, and 1" taller than the 4311

The only real *downside* to the 4520 is the extra money (duh) and the change in DenonLink hardware, which doesn't afford backwards compatibility for the older DenonLink ethernet type cable.
Edited by batpig - 9/28/12 at 2:04pm
post #135 of 7812

I think all of the new features are interesting, but the one that intrigues me the most is "Upgrade to 32/192 DAC's (and corresponding upgrades to AL32 processing and DDSC-HD32 circuitry)".

 

What will this mean to sound quality?  A noticeable difference, or hard to tell?  The 4311 sounds pretty good.

 

Edit:  And 3 processors vs. 2.  Will this allow Audyssey more processing capacity at some time in the future to offer enhancements?

post #136 of 7812
Thread Starter 
I think, in theory, it should yield a slightly lower noise floor and thus slightly better "transparency" or detail.... but my gut tells me that the difference would probably only be noticeable under a tightly controlled direct A/B comparison (if at all).
post #137 of 7812
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

yes it does, you can only half-trust the online specs in the charts on the Denon website.

The Audyssey site lists the 4520 as having Subeq HT, not that Batpig required a confirmation...

http://www.audyssey.com/products?pid=44&ptype=5
post #138 of 7812
The only Denon or Onkyo AVR that features XT32 and not offer Sub EQ HT as well is the Onkyo 818.
post #139 of 7812
Pardon if this has been already spoken but perhaps I missed this some where on here while skimmed through the thread, but can this A/V receiver completely shut down it's amp section? Unlike the 4311 which a pseudo turning of the amp section. I was wondering if that's what ("More amp assign options plus the "custom" free assign mode") kind of implied.

Darn I have amazing admiration for those folks who are contented with their gear, such as a AVR, and hang on to it like their first child, I keep sneaking in here, there are some gems in this machine that has me salivating. I just don't know how Batpig and JDSmoothie do it...Speaking of the service these two guys do for every single one of us we should be building churches of worship, and not to mention Denon should be without any questions shipping Boxes of their latest AVR to these two gents home every so often. It would only benefit them!

Someone type up a petition so the Denon honchos can hear for all the voices that these guys have help! Serious..cool.gif


Djoel
post #140 of 7812
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

The only Denon or Onkyo AVR that features XT32 and not offer Sub EQ HT as well is the Onkyo 818.
It appears that there is at least 1 preamp/processor from Integra in this situation as well.
post #141 of 7812
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I think, in theory, it should yield a slightly lower noise floor and thus slightly better "transparency" or detail.... but my gut tells me that the difference would probably only be noticeable under a tightly controlled direct A/B comparison (if at all).
Even SACD and DVD-A are 24bit PCM. I'm not even really sure if there is a 32-bit audio codec. So my understanding with the "Garbage-In-Garbage-Out" theory there probably would be no benefit. If there was a difference it would actually be added noise due to up conversion to 32-bit.

I guess the 32-bit is just to "future proof". And perhaps it was just easier for the DAC designers to work with 32-bit.
post #142 of 7812
FREE SiriusXM

SiriusXM is offering a FREE 6-Month Trial when you enter promo code TALENT092012.
post #143 of 7812
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I'm going to work up a complete list soon and add it to the beginning of the thread in a FAQ in post #2.
In terms of "the basics" they are VERY similar -- similar overall array of inputs/outputs, same XT32 + SubEQ room calibration software, 9 amp channels with basically the same amp section, Audyssey DSX with 11ch expansion, etc.... they both have 6 rear + 1 front HDMI input with dual outputs for Main Zone, 3 component video inputs with 1 output for Main Zone, 7.1ch EXT IN analog inputs, full 11.2ch pre-outs, Phono input, two 12v trigger outs, 2 optical and 2 coax digital audio inputs, etc.
Really, nothing was taken away vs. the 4311 (except for those poor downtrodden S-video inputs!) so the question is do you want to pay extra for the new feature additions?:
- Zone 4 HDMI matrix output
- Component video output to Zone 2 and Zone 3 (4311 can only output comp video to Main Zone)
- Audyssey LFC
- DTS Neo:X if you want an alternative to DSX for 11ch expansion
- InstaPrevue
- 4-port ethernet hub
- More amp assign options plus the "custom" free assign mode
- Upgrade to 32/192 DAC's (and corresponding upgrades to AL32 processing and DDSC-HD32 circuitry)
- 4k video passthrough support and 4k upscaling
- AirPlay built in (no upgrade needed) and Spotify and Sirius/XM available as network streaming sources
- Network audio supports 192/24 FLAC and WAV streams
- Front HDMI input is MHL certified
- New GUI (also will overlay on 3D sources, the 4311 can't overlay graphics on 3D video)
- New front panel aesthetics, and 1" taller than the 4311
The only real *downside* to the 4520 is the extra money (duh) and the change in DenonLink hardware, which doesn't afford backwards compatibility for the older DenonLink ethernet type cable.

Thank you for that post batpig!

To be honest, I pretty much don't know what the majority of those new features even mean at this point, being such a noob to audio heh.
post #144 of 7812
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFLnut View Post

Sweet!
Now, if only I could find one for sale, in stock. It's killing me! Come on, Denon!!


You can get it at magnolia here in san jose ca. we have 30 in our wherehouse.. i get mine on monday cant wait was going to get the 7007 but the denon looks better....
post #145 of 7812
ABT just notified me that they now have the 4520 in stock.
post #146 of 7812
Quote:
Originally Posted by flint350 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

yes... that is rather neat...

flint, couple more questions on insta-preview...

are the windows movable?

can they be re-sized?


The options with InstaPrevue are # of screens (choice of 1 or 5) and location.  Screens cannot be re-sized apparently, but they can be along the top, bottom, right or left and either in a row (if 5) or single.  You can highlight one of the screens by cursor and then switch to its input key on the remote to control it.  That's about as much as I know about InstaPrevue.

thanks ray... smile.gif
post #147 of 7812
Quote:
Originally Posted by flint350 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Try powering on Zone 4 (no output connection necessary) and return to another source input in the main zone. Does InstaPrevue still work?


No, InstaPrevue does not work if Zone 4 is powered.  Nor does it work with 3D running.  Basically, it works as PIP but with separate sources and smallish, non-sizable screens.  On my big 2.35 screen I can actually watch what is in the windows.  But, on a 27" monitor in the equipment room, used just to make checks and adjustments without firing up the projector, the preview screens are probably too small to comfortably watch extended content if set as 5 screens.  It does work as a 'preview' of what the other sources are doing, but I don't know that I would qualify it as PIP exactly.  If using a single preview window, it is more watchable as this window is larger than the 5 mini-windows.

thanks for posting that, i think i know how they make it "work" now... smile.gif

a bit of a drag on the "either 1 or 5" limitation, but i suppose it's workable...

on your pj screen (how wide is it and what's your viewing distance?) how big are the windows?

i'm intrigued now...
post #148 of 7812
Quote:
Originally Posted by DANNER View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I think, in theory, it should yield a slightly lower noise floor and thus slightly better "transparency" or detail.... but my gut tells me that the difference would probably only be noticeable under a tightly controlled direct A/B comparison (if at all).
Even SACD and DVD-A are 24bit PCM. I'm not even really sure if there is a 32-bit audio codec. So my understanding with the "Garbage-In-Garbage-Out" theory there probably would be no benefit. If there was a difference it would actually be added noise due to up conversion to 32-bit.

I guess the 32-bit is just to "future proof". And perhaps it was just easier for the DAC designers to work with 32-bit.

sacd is "1-bit"... wink.gif and neither is pcm...

why "32 bit"? well, a bigger number is OBVIOUSLY always better... tongue.gif

in the real world, 16/44.1 is audibly transparent... bigger numbers are pretty pointless... but they do make a certain segment of potential buyers sleep better at night...
post #149 of 7812
I have a stupid question:

Can the zone 4 or monitor 2 HDMI outputs be attached to the HDMI input of another AVR
in another room with full surround sound codec to 5.1, 7.1 or even 11.2 in the other
rooms' AVR?
post #150 of 7812
^^^

it should... that would be how a matrix switch "should" work... the note about "same source to different zones not allowed" backs this up as well...
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Receivers, Amps, and Processors
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread