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The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 41

post #1201 of 7711
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

Congratulations!
I hope that my buying the 4311 over the 4520 wasn't false economy. I figured they'd sound the same and the new features were one's I didn't need, like 4K. Needless to say, I'm envious.

 

You're only using the 4311 as a prepro, and if it has all the features you want, then you are good to go IMO. It is a terrific choice. Now it is nearing the end of its allotted time, if I saw one over here in the UK at a really, really good price, I'd be tempted to buy it like you have. Unfortunately, we don't seem to get the end-of-line deals you guys do in the States. I still say that the 4311 is the best value currently available.

post #1202 of 7711
I believe it has all the features I want apart from Spotify which I occasionally use but have it on my computer which is hooked up to the main system. And yes, I am going to use it entirely as a pre-pro until I get 7.1 setup which is probably never. I don't expect it to sound any different from the Onkyo.
post #1203 of 7711
@keith...

agreed 100%... smile.gif

says the person who sold his a100 to buy a 4520... redface.gif
post #1204 of 7711
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

Thank you for the reassurance. I'm a CE addict too. Does the 4311 get hot like my Onkyo pre-pro does?

Never had any heat issues on the 4311 at all. As is your experience, my old Onkyo receivers did have issues. I think you are going to love the 4311! To be honest, it is the avr that conveinced me that the upgrade to costly pre/pros isn't exaclty neccesary. Although I do think there can be some benefits in certain situations(I have experienced the Lyngdorf RC and its unbelievable), you cannot beat the value of pieces like the 4311 and 4520. In short, I think you will be very happy with your 4311 for a long time!smile.gif
post #1205 of 7711
I say, woot! I was able to get BB to price match Elegant Audio's online price last night so I have myself a new AVR-4520ci on it's way to my house. Now I just need to sell my much loved AVR-4308ci. I've not picked through the whole owners thread yet but have a couple of quick questions:
  • Do you find that the video pass through quality is higher on this AVR than other older AVR's? Just pass through, no scaling or anything.
  • Do you all still run Bluray directly to your panel/projector or fully use the AVR's switching capability?
  • I'll have the option of using Toslink from my TV to the AVR or I can use ARC (Audio Return Channel) which is new to me. Which is better, if any? I already have the Toslink run, but can easily run another HDMI through the wall.
Thanks!
post #1206 of 7711
Is there any online reviews of the 4520ci yet?
post #1207 of 7711
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lentiman View Post

  • Do you find that the video pass through quality is higher on this AVR than other older AVR's? Just pass through, no scaling or anything.
  • Do you all still run Bluray directly to your panel/projector or fully use the AVR's switching capability?
  • I'll have the option of using Toslink from my TV to the AVR or I can use ARC (Audio Return Channel) which is new to me. Which is better, if any? I already have the Toslink run, but can easily run another HDMI through the wall.
Thanks!

1) reports on video passthrough are all glowing, no degradation

2) I don't know anyone who DOESN'T run the BD directly to the AVR. Why would you run it directly to the display? You lose the HD audio that way. The only reason to do it the way you describe is in the case of a 3D player/display where you need to bypass an older, non-3D receiver for video.

3) There is no real difference with ARC vs. the toslink theoretically, however the ARC solution invites the potential for more HDMI goofiness due to funky CEC implementations... so if you already have the toslink run, I would keep using it which will allow you to keep CEC disabled on your displays.
post #1208 of 7711
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

1) reports on video passthrough are all glowing, no degradation
2) I don't know anyone who DOESN'T run the BD directly to the AVR. Why would you run it directly to the display? You lose the HD audio that way. The only reason to do it the way you describe is in the case of a 3D player/display where you need to bypass an older, non-3D receiver for video.
3) There is no real difference with ARC vs. the toslink theoretically, however the ARC solution invites the potential for more HDMI goofiness due to funky CEC implementations... so if you already have the toslink run, I would keep using it which will allow you to keep CEC disabled on your displays.

Thanks batpig, that's exactly the input I needed to get.
post #1209 of 7711
Quote:
Originally Posted by lentiman View Post

I say, woot! I was able to get BB to price match Elegant Audio's online price last night so I have myself a new AVR-4520ci on it's way to my house. Now I just need to sell my much loved AVR-4308ci. I've not picked through the whole owners thread yet but have a couple of quick questions:
  • Do you find that the video pass through quality is higher on this AVR than other older AVR's? Just pass through, no scaling or anything.
  • Do you all still run Bluray directly to your panel/projector or fully use the AVR's switching capability?
  • I'll have the option of using Toslink from my TV to the AVR or I can use ARC (Audio Return Channel) which is new to me. Which is better, if any? I already have the Toslink run, but can easily run another HDMI through the wall.
Thanks!

Nice work, congrats and enjoy! Just so that everyone knows, AVS will give you a very competitive price as well.
post #1210 of 7711
Quote:
Originally Posted by flint350 View Post

.....  The only thing I missed was not finding a discrete code for the Vertical Stretch feature.  It is one that apparently has to done via menu and is just not convenient to do 'on the fly', so I will continue to use that feature in my projector.  It's possible I could program a macro button for it and may look into that.  So far, I am not looking back, only forward.  Like InstaPrevue, there are probably other features that will surprise and impress me.  As I read the manual, I keep finding things I want to try.  Great fun.

 

I found the code for the vert stretch in the 4311 codes, and tried once I converted and copied it to my URC MX 850.  It didn't stretch the picture  when I signaled vert stretch on, but when I signaled vert stretch off, it would appear in the display of the 4520- Vert Stretch Off- without any effect on the projected image.  So I went into the 4520 menu and signaled vert stretch on and nothing happened to the hdtv signal showing from the projector.  Whenever the OPPO 83 or VW95 are signaled vert stretch on they stretch the image. So don't know if this something dysfunctional in the Denon or if it requires a 2.x wide image for it to do so or Vert Stretch means something else in the Denon unrelated to use of an anamorphic lens. 

post #1211 of 7711
Quote:
Originally Posted by joepags View Post

[At that point, whatever is playing on the main zone will be reflected as a stereo output in all zones. However, the main zone sound effects appear to change in an audible manner, but the main zone is clearly not playing in stereo mode since sound is coming from all speakers in the main zone. I haven't quite figured out what the main zone is doing in terms of audio processing in this mode. I'll have to play with it some more. I was just happy to figure out how to make this work initially.
.
It sounds like the main zone went to "matrix" surround? Essentially stereo produced using all speakers?[/quote]

The sound definitely changed when I enabled this feature. Your suggestion sounds plausible. I'll investigate further when I get a chance in the next few days.
post #1212 of 7711
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlanzy View Post

 

I found the code for the vert stretch in the 4311 codes, and tried once I converted and copied it to my URC MX 850.  It didn't stretch the picture  when I signaled vert stretch on, but when I signaled vert stretch off, it would appear in the display of the 4520- Vert Stretch Off- without any effect on the projected image.  So I went into the 4520 menu and signaled vert stretch on and nothing happened to the hdtv signal showing from the projector.  Whenever the OPPO 83 or VW95 are signaled vert stretch on they stretch the image. So don't know if this something dysfunctional in the Denon or if it requires a 2.x wide image for it to do so or Vert Stretch means something else in the Denon unrelated to use of an anamorphic lens. 


The vertical stretch works fine for me if I select it via the Setup/HDMI menu.  The Denon's stretch looks at least as good as my Oppo BD-93 and my Projector's anamorphic stretch.  If it would work via discrete code I would use it more, but I can't get that to work yet, so I use the easier method via the projector or Oppo.  Even the Oppo is less than optimal, since you select through a variety of settings - not just stretch on/off.  That's why I was hopeful of the Denon's being discrete.  My projector has the simplest implementation (fewest button presses), but is likely the least quality of the 3 devices.

post #1213 of 7711
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

1) reports on video passthrough are all glowing, no degradation
2) I don't know anyone who DOESN'T run the BD directly to the AVR. Why would you run it directly to the display? You lose the HD audio that way. The only reason to do it the way you describe is in the case of a 3D player/display where you need to bypass an older, non-3D receiver for video.
3) There is no real difference with ARC vs. the toslink theoretically, however the ARC solution invites the potential for more HDMI goofiness due to funky CEC implementations... so if you already have the toslink run, I would keep using it which will allow you to keep CEC disabled on your displays.

I actually send my player straight to my projector and then send the other HDMI out into my AVR. Of course if i didn't have a Blu ray player with Dual HDMI outs I would have no problem going straight into the 4520. smile.gif
post #1214 of 7711
I also run a hdmi direct to the tv so I skipped the video processing by the Denon. Of course I have two hdmi outputs.
post #1215 of 7711
Thread Starter 
well, yeah, if you have dual HDMI outputs and don't mind running the extra cables then sure, but I still think it's an unnecessary step on a 3D capable receiver with good video processing (or at minimum defeatable video processing that won't molest the signal).

joerod -- I also think it's amusing hearing you talk of a direct HDMI connection when you are also running the HDMI output of the receiver through a Darblet and THEN through an Oppo 103! tongue.gif TRIPLE VIDEO PROCESSING!! biggrin.gif
post #1216 of 7711
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

well, yeah, if you have dual HDMI outputs and don't mind running the extra cables then sure, but I still think it's an unnecessary step on a 3D capable receiver with good video processing (or at minimum defeatable video processing that won't molest the signal).
joerod -- I also think it's amusing hearing you talk of a direct HDMI connection when you are also running the HDMI output of the receiver through a Darblet and THEN through an Oppo 103! tongue.gif TRIPLE VIDEO PROCESSING!! biggrin.gif

That's only for football though. smile.gif

Each adds a little kick to the image. The end result is eye popping madness. biggrin.gif
post #1217 of 7711
I have a Lumagen Mini coming tomorrow so now I plan to experiment even more. smile.gif
post #1218 of 7711
Quote:
Originally Posted by flint350 View Post


The vertical stretch works fine for me if I select it via the Setup/HDMI menu.  The Denon's stretch looks at least as good as my Oppo BD-93 and my Projector's anamorphic stretch.  If it would work via discrete code I would use it more, but I can't get that to work yet, so I use the easier method via the projector or Oppo.  Even the Oppo is less than optimal, since you select through a variety of settings - not just stretch on/off.  That's why I was hopeful of the Denon's being discrete.  My projector has the simplest implementation (fewest button presses), but is likely the least quality of the 3 devices.

 

On my MX850 I have as one of the Oppo83 main panel buttons called Aspect, I only hit it once and it does the vertical stretch as the first choice.  I just did a remote to remote learn for that button. 

 

When you choose the vertical stretch in the Denon, does it stretch any format that is showing, e.g. hdtv?

post #1219 of 7711
Quote:
Originally Posted by hkokko View Post

Hi
I am considereing upgrading my 5 year old 4308 to something else. Went to a local store and listened to 4520 against many others. Sounded better than anything in the price range and below) but they hada different setup, sources erc.
My primary use is watching blu-ray movies with sound being important element. Current setup has 7 mirage omnisat v2 (centers, towers and the small surround speakers) and a mirage subwoofer. Due to need to retain also the family harmony it is quite difficult to change the speakers :-). Was looking for to add two heights speakers and a TV with 3d in near future.
Has any of the forum participants here done an upgrade from 4308 to 4520. What is your experience on sound and video quality compared to 4308.

I did not do a direct A to B except for the first time (rewiring takes too much time) so one cannot be sure anything is really true about what I think I am hearing. I am quite pleased though. SQ seems to be better; with a cleaner and more tight sound with better image and focus than I was used to. Bass is much better controlled. I don't use Audessey for music (only analog from my Oppo 95 or Denon 1510), but for comparison I also wired for DA and Audessey in the Denon.

To my ears in my setup Audessey (without DE) is not a huge difference, but makes mids and highs a bit too forward, losing some depth and air in the process. Only DA is okay, but not as good as the Oppo. Music with Dynamic Eq is often just too much and unnatural. For movies I always use Dynamic Eq for the extra impact also at medium high sound levels (-10 / -16 dB). SQ is very impressive with this same openness, very wide soundstage and a very tight bass. How can one say it, just more impact with sometimes extreme volume, without just filling up with 'noise'. It is better than expected. I did a A to B between the 3808 (followed by 4310/4311) and the 4308 (followed by 4810) and the SQ difference made me decide for the 4308 then. I think the 4520 improves on that. I am wondering if this is still true for 4311 vs 4520. Anyone, besides 'expectations'?

I was in the process to search for a separate power amp for my fronts and use the 4520 as processor and to drive all surrounds, but I am not sure if this is worthwhile anymore.
post #1220 of 7711
Now that my new 4520 is installed, it's time to work through some ergonomic issues that are probably related to the choices I made during installation and setup.

I get some non-desired behavior during power up that has been confusing my spousal unit rolleyes.gif

The Samsung PN51E8000 plasma is hooked up to the 4520 with HDMI with ARC enabled. The dish network hopper box and samsung BD-E6500 are also connected to the 4520 via HDMI.

When my wife powers up the systems (we don't have a universal remote yet), she turns on the dish network hopper, then the TV, followed by the Denon.

The Denon remembers the last input used and starts with the Satellite box as the input of choice. Then it switches to the TV for audio input. If we quickly over-ride that by pressing the sat/cbl button on the remote, we are only successful for 20 seconds or so before the Denon switches back to the TV again and we have to override this again.

This is probably due to using the ARC return channel (so we can access streaming video/audio sources supported by the Samsung Plasma) and is a pain in the ass.

Do you guys have any suggestions for improving this situation ?

I was thinking of running an optical digital connection from the TV to Denon and disable the ARC and HDMI-CEC features across the board (Denon, TV, hopper, and blu-ray player). What's the best way to hook all this up and get some reasonable behavior on power up ?

- Steven
post #1221 of 7711
Quote:
Originally Posted by scbartling View Post

Now that my new 4520 is installed, it's time to work through some ergonomic issues that are probably related to the choices I made during installation and setup.
I get some non-desired behavior during power up that has been confusing my spousal unit rolleyes.gif
The Samsung PN51E8000 plasma is hooked up to the 4520 with HDMI with ARC enabled. The dish network hopper box and samsung BD-E6500 are also connected to the 4520 via HDMI.
When my wife powers up the systems (we don't have a universal remote yet), she turns on the dish network hopper, then the TV, followed by the Denon.
The Denon remembers the last input used and starts with the Satellite box as the input of choice. Then it switches to the TV for audio input. If we quickly over-ride that by pressing the sat/cbl button on the remote, we are only successful for 20 seconds or so before the Denon switches back to the TV again and we have to override this again.
This is probably due to using the ARC return channel (so we can access streaming video/audio sources supported by the Samsung Plasma) and is a pain in the ass.
Do you guys have any suggestions for improving this situation ?
I was thinking of running an optical digital connection from the TV to Denon and disable the ARC and HDMI-CEC features across the board (Denon, TV, hopper, and blu-ray player). What's the best way to hook all this up and get some reasonable behavior on power up ?
- Steven

Could it be the HDMI control feature that messes your things up? Maybe try turning it off in the AVR (Video menu, HDMI setup) and see if it corrects your issue?
post #1222 of 7711
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlanzy View Post

 

On my MX850 I have as one of the Oppo83 main panel buttons called Aspect, I only hit it once and it does the vertical stretch as the first choice.  I just did a remote to remote learn for that button. 

 

When you choose the vertical stretch in the Denon, does it stretch any format that is showing, e.g. hdtv?


The Oppo (BD-93 in my case) "aspect" button works with 1 press to change from normal to stretch.  However, to get it out of stretch and back to normal requires several presses since it cycles through various other aspects before retuning to normal.  I find that annoying and would prefer something like a discrete stretch on/off, which is the most common use.  Going through various zooms, which are rarely used if ever, is inconvenient.  That's why I default to the projector's anamorphic mode - many fewer button presses.  Without a discrete code for the Denon, it takes about 8 presses or so (haven't counted the exact number), just like the Oppo.

 

As for what the Denon stretches, I'll have to check it next time.  I usually only need to do that with a Blu-ray 2.35, but I don't see why it wouldn't work with letterbox HDTV or other sources.

post #1223 of 7711
Just update on my Denon 4520CI arrival......looks like weekend of Dec-7 I'll be busy-busy-busy biggrin.gif
Quote:
FedEx ® Tracking Estimated delivery : Tues 12/04/2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkokko View Post

Hi

I am considereing upgrading my 5 year old 4308 to something else. Went to a local store and listened to 4520 against many others. Sounded better than anything in the price range and below) but they hada different setup, sources erc.

My primary use is watching blu-ray movies with sound being important element. Current setup has 7 mirage omnisat v2 (centers, towers and the small surround speakers) and a mirage subwoofer. Due to need to retain also the family harmony it is quite difficult to change the speakers :-). Was looking for to add two heights speakers and a TV with 3d in near future.

Has any of the forum participants here done an upgrade from 4308 to 4520. What is your experience on sound and video quality compared to 4308.

I'm repalcing my 5 year old 4308CI with the 4520CI for the basement HT, the 4308CI will go to the family room 5.1 set-up.

I'll post subjective comments here after Dec-9.
Edited by mtbdudex - 11/30/12 at 9:05am
post #1224 of 7711
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by scbartling View Post

Now that my new 4520 is installed, it's time to work through some ergonomic issues that are probably related to the choices I made during installation and setup.

I get some non-desired behavior during power up that has been confusing my spousal unit rolleyes.gif

The Samsung PN51E8000 plasma is hooked up to the 4520 with HDMI with ARC enabled. The dish network hopper box and samsung BD-E6500 are also connected to the 4520 via HDMI.

When my wife powers up the systems (we don't have a universal remote yet), she turns on the dish network hopper, then the TV, followed by the Denon.

The Denon remembers the last input used and starts with the Satellite box as the input of choice. Then it switches to the TV for audio input. If we quickly over-ride that by pressing the sat/cbl button on the remote, we are only successful for 20 seconds or so before the Denon switches back to the TV again and we have to override this again.

This is probably due to using the ARC return channel (so we can access streaming video/audio sources supported by the Samsung Plasma) and is a pain in the ass.

Do you guys have any suggestions for improving this situation ?

I was thinking of running an optical digital connection from the TV to Denon and disable the ARC and HDMI-CEC features across the board (Denon, TV, hopper, and blu-ray player). What's the best way to hook all this up and get some reasonable behavior on power up ?

- Steven

this is a common issue with Samsung TV's, and you are correct that it's caused by the Samsung's HDMI-CEC (Anynet+). I mean, you are watching TV, so of course you want it to reach into your receiver and tune it to the "TV" input, right? rolleyes.gif

The only solution AFAIK unfortunately is to disable Anynet+, which means you can't use ARC and must instead use the standard old optical cable return channel from the digital output of the TV back to the receiver.
post #1225 of 7711
+1 on the ARC and Samsung issue. Gave up eventually.

Btw the 4520 is prompting me to do a firmware upgrade, so it's safe now. No issues?
post #1226 of 7711
Quote:
Originally Posted by petetherock View Post

+1 on the ARC and Samsung issue. Gave up eventually.
Btw the 4520 is prompting me to do a firmware upgrade, so it's safe now. No issues?

No issues with the FW update, Pete, other than it takes 45 minutes. There is a list of the fixes at the front of this thread, post #3, IIRC.
post #1227 of 7711
This is a different Pandora issue than the one we've been talking about for the last couple months...see below.

Important Announcement forDenon Customers Using Pandora Internet Radio

Dear Denon customer,


Please be advised that Pandora Internet Radio has recently altered certain connection requirements which have temporarily blocked our products from connecting to the Pandora service. Our engineers are currently working hard and will have a firmware update available as soon as possible via the internet to resolve this issue. This should not affect your product’s ability to receive other music streaming services. Please visit our website for firmware update schedule information after 12/6.

We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience that Pandora’s alteration has caused.

AV Receivers:

AVR-1613, AVR-1713, AVR-1913, AVR-2113CI, AVR-2313CI, AVR-3313CI, AVR-4520CI, AVR-1912, AVR-2112CI, AVR-2312CI, AVR-3312CI, AVR-3311CI, AVR-991, AVR-4311CI, AVR-A100




Other Models:

DRA-N5, RCD-N7, DNP-720, DN-700H (Denon Professional)
post #1228 of 7711
possible issue...

anyone else having issues with the avr "losing" its ip address?

mine is seemingly losing it after the avr has been turned off for awhile (overnight)... unplugging and replugging solves it...

replicated with multiple ports on the network hub...

using dhcp presently, will try with a static address today...
post #1229 of 7711
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

possible issue...
anyone else having issues with the avr "losing" its ip address?
mine is seemingly losing it after the avr has been turned off for awhile (overnight)... unplugging and replugging solves it...
replicated with multiple ports on the network hub...
using dhcp presently, will try with a static address today...

 

Sorry, I have not seen this, Chris.

post #1230 of 7711
^^^

hoping the issue is between the keyboard and the chair...

set it up as static... we will see what happens...
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