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The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 6

post #151 of 7683
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DANNER View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I think, in theory, it should yield a slightly lower noise floor and thus slightly better "transparency" or detail.... but my gut tells me that the difference would probably only be noticeable under a tightly controlled direct A/B comparison (if at all).
Even SACD and DVD-A are 24bit PCM. I'm not even really sure if there is a 32-bit audio codec. So my understanding with the "Garbage-In-Garbage-Out" theory there probably would be no benefit. If there was a difference it would actually be added noise due to up conversion to 32-bit.

I guess the 32-bit is just to "future proof". And perhaps it was just easier for the DAC designers to work with 32-bit.

sacd is "1-bit"... wink.gif and neither is pcm...

why "32 bit"? well, a bigger number is OBVIOUSLY always better... tongue.gif

in the real world, 16/44.1 is audibly transparent... bigger numbers are pretty pointless... but they do make a certain segment of potential buyers sleep better at night...

Strictly speaking if you are performing DSP on 24 bit signals, you'd want your DSP to process it in more than 24 bits. And with binary data its easier to work in powers of 2. So a 32 bit processor is a logical choice.

Not that 32 bit DACs sound better than 24 bits because the implementation (power and analog circuit design) is as important if not more so.

And once you've processed in 32 bits it makes sense to feed that to a 32 bit DAC without truncation or down sampling.

As for the value of hires audio, I'll leave that to individuals. I do feel that analog media which isn't quantized sounds more dynamic so there is something to be said about using hires audio to better approximate the original analog source. I've been listening to Madonna's True Blue (I have the original CD pressing from Germany and recently got the HDTracks 24/192 releases) and I thought the 24/192s brought something new to the songs.

YMMV
post #152 of 7683
ummm....
post #153 of 7683
post #154 of 7683
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post


thanks for posting that, i think i know how they make it "work" now... smile.gif
a bit of a drag on the "either 1 or 5" limitation, but i suppose it's workable...
on your pj screen (how wide is it and what's your viewing distance?) how big are the windows?
i'm intrigued now...


The projector screen is 127" wide by 54" high, which yields a 1.78 image of 110" diag, and a 2.35 scope image of 136" diagonal.  I sit at about 13-14' from the screen.  I don't know how to describe the size of the windows other than to say they are large enough to view content, but next time I have it on (probably later this evening) I will look again and maybe even measure them just to see.

post #155 of 7683
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Coming soon--an Audyssey Pro calibration of the 4520...

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1346723/the-audyssey-pro-installer-kit-thread-faq-in-post-1/3090#post_22446015


That should be an interesting project.  Looking forward to hearing the result.

post #156 of 7683

In reference InstaPreVue, I thought a few photos might reveal more than words.  So, I took some measurements and some photos from my seating position with the camera right in front of my seat.  Recall that the screen is 127" wide (10.6 ft) and 54" high (4.5 ft) and the camera is looking up just a bit.  I used the same settings for all images to try for consistency.  I also measured the mini-screens and came up with this:  The 5 mini-screens measure about 18" diag and the single screen measures 28" diagonal.  This was done in wide screen (2.35) mode, so they may be just a bit smaller in standard 1.78 format.  As I think the photos show, all of them are viewable and the single large is probably watchable.  I took two of the single large to show both a wider shot and a close shot for detail.  The mini-screen of Thor was actually running while I had the main background image in pause on the Media Server hdd.  You can see the 2 non-connected device screens and the 3 active (Oppo BD-93, PS3 and Roku).  I added a shot of what the menu looks like if you simply hit "option" when trying InstaPreVue.  Hope this is helpful.

 

 

 

 

 

post #157 of 7683
^^^

thanks! that helps a lot, as my 16x9 screen is 110" diag...

i could use this...
post #158 of 7683

That's big enough to see if the team is in the Red Zone!  Nice.

post #159 of 7683
^^^

reading my mind... smile.gif

wish i had it today for ryder cup and football...
post #160 of 7683
Well, I only have a puny little 71" screen rolleyes.gif but that should work for RedZone for me as well. But I've just gotten my wife to sign on to a 37" above the 71" for football for when she wants to watch her crap and I, mine. So I've got that going for me too, and with full matrix included on this beast, I am happy.
Edited by NFLnut - 9/29/12 at 9:55pm
post #161 of 7683
I Got mine today... Still playing. I have the URC MX-980 and it's bugging the crap outta me that the discreet Power On is not working, tried a bunch of codes/things and it just simply doesn't work. Flint350, how's MX-3000 working for you on this? Thanks!
post #162 of 7683
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maison View Post

I Got mine today... Still playing. I have the URC MX-980 and it's bugging the crap outta me that the discreet Power On is not working, tried a bunch of codes/things and it just simply doesn't work. Flint350, how's MX-3000 working for you on this? Thanks!


It works just fine for me.  I usually start the system a different way, but bcz of your post I went in and tried just the AVR with discrete On and Off and both work flawlessly.  Possibly you got the code wrong?  Here's what the pdf shows:

 

0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0  All Power On

1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0  All Power Off

1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0  Power Toggle

post #163 of 7683
Thanks for checking on that. Something must be very wrong, I tried what you listed, tried various models from the URC database, and I even learned the toggle from the remote that came with the 4520 - nothing!! Just can't turn it on, I can turn off and the other buttons/functions works fine. Getting irrated. This very strange.
post #164 of 7683
Does the 4520 support decoding of HDCD. Checked the US website and the Australian manual andneither mention this?

Alos, can the 4520 playback gapless flac?

cheers
blairy
post #165 of 7683
Quote:
Originally Posted by blairy View Post

Does the 4520 support decoding of HDCD. Checked the US website and the Australian manual andneither mention this?
Alos, can the 4520 playback gapless flac?
cheers
blairy

According to the link posted by JD, the 4520 does not have an HDCD decoder. However, these product comparisons can be flawed, so perhaps JD will comment.

Would this be an important omission? I couldn't tell you how many CD's in my collection are HDCD's, and I probably am not aware when one is playing.
post #166 of 7683

There is .flac support for USB, PC and NAS, but nothing about HDCD that I could find.

post #167 of 7683
OK, I found a HDCD (Natalie Merchant's Ophelia), so I have a disk to use for a test when my 4520 arrives. If the 4520 doesn't have an HDCD decoder, what will happen? BTW, my Oppo decodes HDCD as well.
post #168 of 7683
There is no mention of HDCD support in the Owner's manual, so this feature is apparently not carried over from the 4311CI.
post #169 of 7683
HDCD-encoded CDs are encoded with 20 bits of real musical information, as compared with 16 bits for all other CDs. HDCD overcomes the limitation of the 16-bit CD format by using a sophisticated system to encode the additional 4 bits onto the CD while remaining completely compatible with the existing CD format. HDCD provides more dynamic range, a more focused 3-D soundstage, and extremely natural vocal and musical timbre. With HDCD, you get the body, depth, and emotion of the original performance not a flat, digital imitation
According to http://www.denon4520.com (which I have no idea of who put it together) It does have the decoder.
post #170 of 7683
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

OK, I found a HDCD (Natalie Merchant's Ophelia), so I have a disk to use for a test when my 4520 arrives. If the 4520 doesn't have an HDCD decoder, what will happen? BTW, my Oppo decodes HDCD as well.

you can decode it in the oppo if the avr will not decode it... that will work just fine...

if there is a decoder in the avr, you don't want to decode it in the player, as there are artifacts left over from the decoding process that "fool" the avr, and it causes issues... it still thinks it needs to decode certain portions, and will flip in and out of trying to decode it (when it is already decoded by the player)...
post #171 of 7683
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

you can decode it in the oppo if the avr will not decode it... that will work just fine...
if there is a decoder in the avr, you don't want to decode it in the player, as there are artifacts left over from the decoding process that "fool" the avr, and it causes issues... it still thinks it needs to decode certain portions, and will flip in and out of trying to decode it (when it is already decoded by the player)...

Chris, what happens if I turn off HDCD decoding in the Oppo, and it isn't supported in the 4520? Do I get no sound, or does it simply decode like any Redbook CD?
post #172 of 7683
^^^

it'll act just like a redbook cd... hdcd is backwards compatible...
post #173 of 7683
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^
it'll act just like a redbook cd... hdcd is backwards compatible...

Got it, thanks!
post #174 of 7683
^^^

cool... smile.gif

as with many things in audio, the "advantages" of hdcd are grossly overstated... iow, i wouldn't sweat it one way or the other...
post #175 of 7683
Quote:
Originally Posted by IwantmyTHX View Post

HDCD-encoded CDs are encoded with 20 bits of real musical information, as compared with 16 bits for all other CDs. HDCD overcomes the limitation of the 16-bit CD format by using a sophisticated system to encode the additional 4 bits onto the CD while remaining completely compatible with the existing CD format. HDCD provides more dynamic range, a more focused 3-D soundstage, and extremely natural vocal and musical timbre. With HDCD, you get the body, depth, and emotion of the original performance not a flat, digital imitation
According to http://www.denon4520.com (which I have no idea of who put it together) It does have the decoder.

I see no mention of HDCD nor any indication of the HDCD icon.
post #176 of 7683
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

.
Really, nothing was taken away vs. the 4311 (except for those poor downtrodden S-video inputs!) so the question is do you want to pay extra for the new feature additions?.

And a Optical Output.
post #177 of 7683
Quote:
Originally Posted by flint350 View Post

There is .flac support for USB, PC and NAS, but nothing about HDCD that I could find.

Thanks flint350. I found the flac details in the manual, pretty much as you describe in your post.

My question is about gapless flac playback.

Most AV hardware will playback many digital formats (MP3, WAV, flac the apple codecs etc). However they play these back one track at a time. meaning if you're listening to a recording of a live concert, instead of hearing applause or the crowd etc between tracks you'll get a gap.

I'm hoping the AVR 4520 can play digital files seamlessly, or gapless. Doesn't necesarily have to be flac; wav would be OK. Just so long as it's a lossless codec.

Cheers
blairy
post #178 of 7683
Yes, gapless FLAC/ALAC is featured on the 4520CI and was added to the 1913 and higher models as well via a firmware update.

From the 4520CI spec sheet on Denon's webpage ...



Edited by jdsmoothie - 10/1/12 at 6:52am
post #179 of 7683

Blairy, sorry about that, I missed the gapless part and don't know the answer.  As to HDCD, if you look on the Denon site, they list the supported sound modes and while HDCD is shown in the list, it is NOT checked as available, while other formats are checked off.  From what I have seen, the list is accurate so I doubt that HDCD support is built-in. 

post #180 of 7683
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Yes, gapless FLAC/ALAC is featured on the 4520CI and was added to the 1913 and higher models as well via a firmware update.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flint350 View Post

Blairy, sorry about that, I missed the gapless part and don't know the answer.  As to HDCD, if you look on the Denon site, they list the supported sound modes and while HDCD is shown in the list, it is NOT checked as available, while other formats are checked off.  From what I have seen, the list is accurate so I doubt that HDCD support is built-in. 

Thanks guys. Great to know re gapless flac. HDCD is a pity but no big deal for me as my Oppo decodes this in any event.

Cheers
blairy
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