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The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 51

post #1501 of 4531
12/9/12 at 8:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTGOLFER View Post

I currently own the Marantz AV7005 and have been thinking about upgrading to either the Denon AVR4520 or the Marantz AV8801. I am interested in Audyssey XT32 and was wondering how much improvement the XT32 will be over the XT in my 7005. Has anyone compared the 4520 to the 8801 (not sure if anyone has their hands on one of these yet). I can swing the 4520 now but it will take a while to upgrade to the 8801. I first would like to upgrade to dual subs and will be ordering soon and then get the 4520 or wait and get the 8801 next summer but if the sound quality is pretty much the same I would like to save the $1100 and get the 4520.

Any ideas?

Thanks

it will be a very big upgrade... smile.gif and well worth the money (saying that as someone who owned a av7005 previously)... also, unless you require the features that the 4520 offers over the 4311 (primarily the matrix switch/instapreview), you'd be even better served to hunt down one of the remaining 4311s on closeout...

as far as the 8801 goes... i will eat my 4520 if any type of controlled testing* shows any "sound quality" differences between the 4520 and the 8801... otoh, i am sure you will read "commentary from uncontrolled observations" proclaiming "night and day differences"... wink.gif

* note: i find it very unlikely that anyone will do a properly controlled test...
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post #1502 of 4531
12/9/12 at 8:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

it will be a very big upgrade... smile.gif and well worth the money (saying that as someone who owned a av7005 previously)... also, unless you require the features that the 4520 offers over the 4311 (primarily the matrix switch/instapreview), you'd be even better served to hunt down one of the remaining 4311s on closeout...
as far as the 8801 goes... i will eat my 4520 if any type of controlled testing* shows any "sound quality" differences between the 4520 and the 8801... otoh, i am sure you will read "commentary from uncontrolled observations" proclaiming "night and day differences"... wink.gif
* note: i find it very unlikely that anyone will do a properly controlled test...

Can you give me a little more info on the differences between the 4311 and the 4520? I'm sure there are a few more differences other than the instapreview, matrix switch and LFC. LFC would be nice in my situation as well.

Thanks
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post #1503 of 4531
12/9/12 at 8:26am
Comparison provided in post #2 of this thread ... smile.gif

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1430049/the-official-denon-avr-4520ci-thread/0_100#post_22413907
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post #1504 of 4531
12/9/12 at 8:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

it will be a very big upgrade... smile.gif and well worth the money (saying that as someone who owned a av7005 previously)... also, unless you require the features that the 4520 offers over the 4311 (primarily the matrix switch/instapreview), you'd be even better served to hunt down one of the remaining 4311s on closeout...
as far as the 8801 goes... i will eat my 4520 if any type of controlled testing* shows any "sound quality" differences between the 4520 and the 8801... otoh, i am sure you will read "commentary from uncontrolled observations" proclaiming "night and day differences"... wink.gif
* note: i find it very unlikely that anyone will do a properly controlled test...

Can you please provide the link showing the controlled test between the AV7005 and the 4311/4520?

Much appreciated, thanks!
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post #1505 of 4531
12/9/12 at 8:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

There is a wealth of information in the Audyssey thread, and the overwhelming consensus is that XT32 provides significant sonic improvements over XT.  A major difference is that XT32 focuses its filter power on the lower frequencies, where EQ is needed the most, more than on the high frequencies.  Also, as you probably know, XT32 includes Sub EQ HT, which allows distances and trims for two subs to be determined separately, which can also provide for a more effective low-end EQ for those who have multiple subs.  IMO, the upgrade to two subs is an equally important step.  The sonic differences between the 4520 and the 8801 are likely to be more subtle.

Call me confused. After browsing the user manual I got the impression that Audyssey will only calibrate one subwoofer even though I know there are two pre-outs on the back panel. Can someone confirm this for me.
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post #1506 of 4531
12/9/12 at 8:53am
^^^

not even a good try...

xt vs xt32 measures different, and those measurements show differences that fall in the audible range..,

try harder next time...
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post #1507 of 4531
12/9/12 at 9:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tachy View Post

Given my difficuly playing files from my network hard drive using the 4520's media server icon (mentioned above), I tired to troubleshoot a little.
Reset, restarted my router that the hard drive is plugged in to-did not help.
Backed up my 4520, checked to make sure backup was not all 0's, and it was not, had lots of text and other numbers. Backup said it completed successfully.
Figured I would try and reset on the 4520.
Did a full reset on the 4520 (MP and network).
I did not think it would reset all my settings to default, but it did. Did not think, even if it did, would be a big deal, since I just did a "successful backup".
Unfortunately, I have tried a "Load" restore twice and each time it goes for 5 minutes, then I get a message on my laptop "Load not completed. Please try again."
The 4520 seems stuck in "Loading", with the only way to break it, to pull the plug of the unit,. (any other way to do this?)
I am going to try one more time, then guess I will start from scratch and do the Audyssey setup and all the settings from scratch.
Any ideas how to avoid this in the future?
Addendum:
Third try to restore/load seems to have worked. This time I plugged my laptop directly into the router for a wired connection rather than wireless. Seems to have been successful.
(although did not fix the initial problem which was accessing the hard drive media files, mp3 and flac)

I had the same trouble. I managed to restore on the 3rd try. I'm using a wired network connection.
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post #1508 of 4531
12/9/12 at 9:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourbeef View Post


Call me confused. After browsing the user manual I got the impression that Audyssey will only calibrate one subwoofer even though I know there are two pre-outs on the back panel. Can someone confirm this for me.

Perhaps your confusion arises from how Sub EQ HT works.  At the end of the first set of measurement chirps, Audyssey sends a chirp first to sub1, then the sub2, and then to sub1+sub2.  This process establishes unique trims and distances for each sub channel.  In subsequent sets of chirps, the combined sub1+sub2 is measured, which is how the subs affect the bass response in the room. 

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post #1509 of 4531
12/9/12 at 9:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

I would be glad to report the issue to Denon.  However, since I don't use this capability (I am a happy Sonos user), it is a low priority.  Besides, I can't be sure that it isn't something other than the Denon.  Tachy, it doesn't sound like it is something you use very often either, or am I wrong?

I was using it more and more, and as I created a library for my flac files, but now I guess I will stop until I they fix this.

I use Pandora and Spotify daily as well. The Pandora issues are more bothersome, although the media server is something they need to fix as well. I have gone back to using Pandora on my TiVo, although it is harder to access with the Pandora menu choice buried in a submenu somewhere. I often switch back and forth between Pandora and Spotify and the Denon allows me to easily do this (when/if they are both working correctly)
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post #1510 of 4531
12/9/12 at 9:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTGOLFER View Post

I currently own the Marantz AV7005 and have been thinking about upgrading to either the Denon AVR4520 or the Marantz AV8801. I am interested in Audyssey XT32 and was wondering how much improvement the XT32 will be over the XT in my 7005....
Hi. A very astute question. In addition to Jerry's reference below to the Audyssey thread, this issue has been covered repeatedly in the 4311 thread. I believe the same discussion goes on in XT32-equipped Onkyo threads. Almost to a man, upgraders feel XT32 is worth it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

There is a wealth of information in the Audyssey thread, and the overwhelming consensus is that XT32 provides significant sonic improvements over XT.  A major difference is that XT32 focuses its filter power on the lower frequencies, where EQ is needed the most, more than on the high frequencies.  Also, as you probably know, XT32 includes Sub EQ HT, which allows distances and trims for two subs to be determined separately, which can also provide for a more effective low-end EQ for those who have multiple subs.  IMO, the upgrade to two subs is an equally important step.  The sonic differences between the 4520 and the 8801 are likely to be more subtle.
+1. When one is prioritizing purchases, I 'd say that In addition to 2 subs and XT32, another proven way to get good bang for the buck SQ benefits is investing in a Pro kit (rather than a more expensive pre/pro).
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post #1511 of 4531
12/9/12 at 10:55am
^^^

while i am a "pro" user, "bang for the buck" is not how i would describe it... wink.gif a "well spent buck to squeeze out the last percent or two", but not very high on the "bang scale"... tongue.gif

xt32, otoh, is a pretty big bang for the buck... smile.gif a big buck, but a big bang...
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post #1512 of 4531
12/9/12 at 10:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourbeef View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

There is a wealth of information in the Audyssey thread, and the overwhelming consensus is that XT32 provides significant sonic improvements over XT.  A major difference is that XT32 focuses its filter power on the lower frequencies, where EQ is needed the most, more than on the high frequencies.  Also, as you probably know, XT32 includes Sub EQ HT, which allows distances and trims for two subs to be determined separately, which can also provide for a more effective low-end EQ for those who have multiple subs.  IMO, the upgrade to two subs is an equally important step.  The sonic differences between the 4520 and the 8801 are likely to be more subtle.

Call me confused. After browsing the user manual I got the impression that Audyssey will only calibrate one subwoofer even though I know there are two pre-outs on the back panel. Can someone confirm this for me.

xt32 + sub eq will level and delay each of the 2 subs independently...

it will then "eq" the combined response... as it should... it would not make sense to "eq" subwoofers individually, due to the way "bass" functions in a room...
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post #1513 of 4531
12/9/12 at 11:48am
Do you all think a fan is a must have with this AVR for most people?
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post #1514 of 4531
12/9/12 at 12:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^
while i am a "pro" user, "bang for the buck" is not how i would describe it... wink.gif a "well spent buck to squeeze out the last percent or two", but not very high on the "bang scale"... tongue.gif
xt32, otoh, is a pretty big bang for the buck... smile.gif a big buck, but a big bang...

I 'respectively' disagree. If the choice were between XT and Pro or a new AVR with XT32 and no Pro, clearly you'd be right.

However, if you already have an AVR with XT32, I'd consider adding Pro ahead of buying a new AVR w/o Pro with respect to sound quality for the following reasons:

-- having more options with mid-range compensation than the 'house' curve, to suit your room
-- more recommended crossover points to try than the 'default' you get from the base version of XT32 (useful if you have non-standard speakers like electrostatic Martin Logans or powered ones like the DefTech Mythos)
-- If you're not a 'set and forget' type, you can save measurements (with the caveat that you have to record distance and trim for two sub setups before saving to bet them set correctly)
-- A "better" record of the Before XT32 curves than the ones in basic XT32
-- And of course a Curve Edifor if you're on the path to being a tweaker with relatively cheap independent post-Cal measurement

It would help if Audyssey/Denon fixes the serial port bug, however, on the 4520 so you're not transferring info to your PC at 1982-standard speeds...
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post #1515 of 4531
12/9/12 at 12:13pm
My unit will be here Tuesday smile.gif

Regarding SiriusXM, does the 4520 support it natively without extra hardware or does it only support internet stream? I saw XM mentioned and didn't think much more of it but now I notice it was lumped in with the other streaming services. I'm worried now.
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post #1516 of 4531
12/9/12 at 12:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irwinroad View Post

Thanks It works as advertised. When you access Aux3-Aux7 it adds them to the input assign menu.
I am trying to use this as a workaround for getting analog signals to Zone 2 since the AVR will no longer
pass PCM to Zone 2.
The problem is if you look at the discrete IR Codes linked in post #1 the codes for Zone 2 inputs are the same as Zone 1.
I was able to learn some Z2 inputs from the remote but it will not help for Aux3-Aux7.
One thought was to use serial codes instead but there is no serial code to scroll inputs which is a feature I use all
the time.
Does anyone know if/when D&M will ever update these codes?

In Denon Pronto Hex Generator change the Zone / Device drop down box to AVR / Zone 2 and then generate the hex code.

All is well
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post #1517 of 4531
12/9/12 at 1:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^
not even a good try...
xt vs xt32 measures different, and those measurements show differences that fall in the audible range..,
try harder next time...

I'm not trying to trap you, I'm just a person like you who is always second guessing my audio purchases. I went to Magnolia 5 months ago determined to buy the 4311 for use as a pre/pro. The saleswoman whom I've known for a long time told me she thought the av7005 would be better for me, and set up the room with both pieces on a switch box. After a couple of hours of listening to various music and watching a few Blu Rays I agreed, as did my girlfriend who isn't really even into HT/audio. Same room, same speakers -- some expensive Sonus Fabers -- we all three preferred the av7005. I'm just trying to figure out why we were wrong, and what I am missing by not having the 4311 or 4520. I only have a 5.1 system and don't see that changing, and currently the room I have is pretty nice with no irregular corners, a few wall treatments, and acoustical cathedral ceiling.

I'm not completely enthralled though, and will probably be upgrading again soon to either the 4520 or av8801 -- at least then in my head I call tell myself I have the best. tongue.gif
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post #1518 of 4531
12/9/12 at 1:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jond0 View Post

I'm not trying to trap you, I'm just a person like you who is always second guessing my audio purchases. I went to Magnolia 5 months ago determined to buy the 4311 for use as a pre/pro. The saleswoman whom I've known for a long time told me she thought the av7005 would be better for me, and set up the room with both pieces on a switch box...

It's nice that you could do that A/B. I'm thinking that Audyssey processing was not involved in that test. So you are wondering how much a diff XT32 would make in your room. Unfortunately no one can answer that. Except that it's made a nice diff for most everyone who's tried it.smile.gif
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post #1519 of 4531
12/9/12 at 1:40pm
@stuart...

we are actually in agreement... smile.gif
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post #1520 of 4531
12/9/12 at 2:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourbeef View Post

Do you all think a fan is a must have with this AVR for most people?

depends... do "most people" have it in an enclosed cabinet? in which case, i'd ventilate the cabinet...

or do "most people" have it in an open rack with a reasonable amount of clearance? in which case, no...

"producing heat" is not what kills electronics... and electronics WILL produce heat... they are not immune to physical laws... smile.gif

"bathing in heat" is what kills electronics...
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post #1521 of 4531
12/9/12 at 2:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

It's nice that you could do that A/B. I'm thinking that Audyssey processing was not involved in that test. So you are wondering how much a diff XT32 would make in your room. Unfortunately no one can answer that. Except that it's made a nice diff for most everyone who's tried it.smile.gif

Right. Magnolia does not run the Auto EQ on their demo AVRs as there are too many speakers in the room and it would show preference to that one set of speakers it was used on.

@Johnd0 -

The best way to test XT32 vs. XT is to bring the AVR home and try it with your own speakers.
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post #1522 of 4531
12/9/12 at 5:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

depends... do "most people" have it in an enclosed cabinet? in which case, i'd ventilate the cabinet...
or do "most people" have it in an open rack with a reasonable amount of clearance? in which case, no...
"producing heat" is not what kills electronics... and electronics WILL produce heat... they are not immune to physical laws... smile.gif
"bathing in heat" is what kills electronics...

OK, that sounds reasonable. Last question that is heat related, does this unit have internal fans that turn on, like my current Onkyo unit has when it heat up too much?
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post #1523 of 4531
12/9/12 at 5:06pm
^^^

my guess would be that there is a fan in there somewhere... dunno, i haven't taken it apart... jerry unclothed his, he may pop in with that answer... smile.gif
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post #1524 of 4531
12/9/12 at 5:09pm
I know it's early but what the heck:
Merry Christmas to all us new 4520CI owners who took or will take delivery in December!
( so my wife said, it's my gift)
Was busy all day today.
Up at 5am installing my height speakers in the basement HT, then cut down a 14foot pine tree we grew on our property from a sapling 9 years ago, to decorating it and the outside lights.
upe4yha9.jpg


Sent from my 32GB iPhone4 using Tapatalk
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post #1525 of 4531
12/9/12 at 5:13pm
wicked cool real tree, home grown... smile.gif

dang, that must be a BIG room...
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post #1526 of 4531
12/9/12 at 5:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^
my guess would be that there is a fan in there somewhere... dunno, i haven't taken it apart... jerry unclothed his, he may pop in with that answer... smile.gif

 

I checked the photos that I have of the insides of the 4520, and none of them reveal any fans.  Not to say that there are no fans, I just didn't notice them.  I'm sure the 4520 is similar to the 4311, which has two fans.  In the several years I have had the 4311, I have *never* heard the fans turn on.  In my open rack, an infrared thermometer measured temperatures on both the 4311 and the 4520 to be ~130 degrees after some spirited viewing, with the video section measuring warmer than the amp section.  Certainly nothing to be concerned about.

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post #1527 of 4531
12/9/12 at 5:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

I know it's early but what the heck:
Merry Christmas to all us new 4520CI owners who took or will take delivery in December!
( so my wife said, it's my gift)
Was busy all day today.
Up at 5am installing my height speakers in the basement HT, then cut down a 14foot pine tree we grew on our property from a sapling 9 years ago, to decorating it and the outside lights.
upe4yha9.jpg
Sent from my 32GB iPhone4 using Tapatalk

Sweet tree and room. Looks like three of the little ones were not around when you planted that tree. I bet they were excited.
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post #1528 of 4531
12/9/12 at 5:34pm
@jerry...

yea, i never heard the ones in the a100, and "spirited viewing" (i like that term) was done on more than one occasion... smile.gif then again, i've been accused on more than one occasion lately of being deaf... wink.gif

those temps sound entirely reasonable to me...
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post #1529 of 4531
12/9/12 at 6:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

I checked the photos that I have of the insides of the 4520, and none of them reveal any fans.  Not to say that there are no fans, I just didn't notice them.  I'm sure the 4520 is similar to the 4311, which has two fans.  In the several years I have had the 4311, I have *never* heard the fans turn on.  In my open rack, an infrared thermometer measured temperatures on both the 4311 and the 4520 to be ~130 degrees after some spirited viewing, with the video section measuring warmer than the amp section.  Certainly nothing to be concerned about.

well that sounds promising anyhow.smile.gif My current Onkyo definitely has a fan which I can distinctly hear after some spirited viewing, but only when I am turning everything down for normal viewing can I hear the fan in the background. That is when I am prompted to lower my volume a few more cranks until the fan goes off. Normally it would only run another 5 minutes or so after resuming lower listening levels.
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post #1530 of 4531
12/9/12 at 6:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

I know it's early but what the heck:
Merry Christmas to all us new 4520CI owners who took or will take delivery in December!
( so my wife said, it's my gift)
Was busy all day today.
Up at 5am installing my height speakers in the basement HT, then cut down a 14foot pine tree we grew on our property from a sapling 9 years ago, to decorating it and the outside lights.
upe4yha9.jpg
Sent from my 32GB iPhone4 using Tapatalk

Thanks, and Merry Christmas back at ya. wink.gif I just placed an order with Mike (AV Science Sales 5) this evening.....thanks to the those posters ( you know who you are) who clued me in on calling Mike. I think I got a pretty good deal.biggrin.gif
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