The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 58

Average humans do not frequent these threads. They buy Bose over the phone after watching TV commercials demonstrating just how great Bose sounds (even though they are listening to the ad through their TV speakers, duh).
Yes. That Audyssey improves SQ is a consistant finding across the spectrum, from folks who buy an inexpensive AVR with MultEQ to the guys who just spent $1K to upgrade their $7K Denon AVPA1 pre/pros from MultEQXT to XT32.

Every situation is different, but for me Audyssey offers improved SQ in a number of distinct ways. First off, it tames the xs bass generated by the speakers' interaction with the room. Second, it EQs each speaker in its place in the room far better than I could manually, and also sets the distances and trims. This improves the SQ and the overall surround bubble. Add features like DEQ, DVol and the step-up to Audysseey Pro and it's unbeatable for the $.

Thank you for the feedback, much appreciated. However, to kbarnes' point I've taken us off topic.

So...how bout that 4520?

Thank you for the feedback, much appreciated. However, to kbarnes' point I've taken us off topic.

So...how bout that 4520?

Great to hear all of these encouraging reviews. I will be getting one in a week or two.

Oh, don't worry about Keith. He's just a crotchity old coot.
Variations on your question are asked on most of the AVR and pre/pro threads. It's relevant to those gathering info while considering a purchase of that model, ie the 4520. There, back on topic.

Well, I have my front height & wide speakers mounted.



Here is where I am and what I want to do:
-I've attached all the speakers wired to their labeled positions, expect of course the Front R/C/L are attached to the XPA-3
-I want the zone2 attached to the Fronts, so when I have sports night will run "just 9.1" and the 2 amps will then play over the pool table
-I've atatched zone2 speaker to the fronts

Last night was going thru what I thought was a no-brainer;
-go to custom amp
-set the front/center to pre-out, as I'm using a Emotiva XPA-3 for them
-set the un-used front amps to zone 2 so they can power the nearby rec-room when I want that for sports events
(and realize the HT will go to 9.1 then)

Sounds simple.

I'm either dumb as mud, constantly distracted by my 3 kids, too busy to read the pdf only manual (which I've started via my iPad), or "xxx" (type your answer there )

I realize I have 8 amps to use, the center can't be re-assigned.

First the auto speaker routing gave me this when I went thru it and told it I have 7.1 + wides/height:
..

That as a start, but desired to shut off the Front/Center, and assign the front to zone2 for driving the speakers above my pool table for game night action


So, I went thru the various choices:
This look like on the right track, but I could NOT put zone2 onto the fronts, like a "free assign, physically there for zone2 usage:
..

I then did this, that was weird, it ping the speakers above the table, like zone2 was part of the main HT EQ process


It was getting late, so I settled on this choice, and then ran the Audyssey XT32 routine and called it a night.
..

I was kinda geeky cool to see it go thru all the 11.1 speakers
..

Been busy this morning, church/etc, so will see if I can go to zone2 and what 2 amps go to that.....

Others here with 11.1 speaker set-up and a zone2 that you want to power off the 4520 amp (and then your HT will be 9.1) what did you use?

So I think we're going to have to RMA our 4520... We've had it like three weeks, and starting a few days ago it has been having audio problems like crazy. It will cut out, start popping/beeping/crackling, and generally messing up. I went through a lot of the standard stuff, reset the microprocessor, etc. It was happening on all sources. As time went by, evidence mounted that it's a heat issue. If the AVR was off for quite a while, it would work for a good hour or longer...but then start failing.

Now we explicitly designed our cabinet so the AVR would not be in the enclosed space with everything else. It sits out in the open with 4-6 inches on either side and is complete open on top. The lower corner of the TV is there but that's not a heat source and is not exactly blocking airflow. Here's a picture to show its position: AVR Position Picture (Click to show)
So it doesn't make any sense that it would be getting hot, but that's definitely the problem. After leaving it unplugged over night, we got a couple of hours of perfect use before it started cutting out. As time went by, the cuts started happening more frequently. The top of the receiver was noticeably warm. I setup a simple pedestal fan to blow air over the top and within a few minutes it stopped have any issues. Since then we've left the fan there and it's worked fine for many hours.

I finally started to inspect the unit more closely. Looking between the grills on the top, I can see two fans near the front left corners. NEITHER of these fans is turning on my unit despite it being on for hours and clearly overheating. Here are some pics of the fans...in the full resolution, you can clearly make out the fan blades (meaning they're not moving since my iPhone isn't exactly a super fast exposure). Fan Pictures (Click to show)
That at least explains why it is getting so hot... Are those fans supposed to be turning anytime the unit is on? Has anyone else had this problem with them not working and the unit overheating? Can someone else at least confirm that theirs ARE working so I know I'm not crazy? I'm currently planning to call our dealer tomorrow and start the process of getting a replacement...

To all the iRule users out there, I've created a shared device for the 4520 called "Denon AVR-4520CI Main Zone". I've added many of the new commands specific for the 4520 that differentiate this device from the default Denon AVR device. I've been doing all of this to prepare for the delivery of my 4520 (it's still backordered from the AVS store), so if there are mistakes or any other commands that you would like added, please let me know.

Hi all, I noticed something with the 4520 and I want to know if it is normal. I upgraded to 7.1 when I got the 4520 so I am not used to the different 7.1 sound modes.
When I listen to broadcast TV from my digital set top box, and that I receive a Dolby Digital 5.1 signal and that the sound mode is set to Dolby Digital only, my surround channels will play but not the surround back speakers which is normal. But if I change the sound mode to either Dolby Digital EX, Dolby Digital + PLII Cinema or Dolby Digital + Neo X, sometimes, the surround channels will not play but the surround back will (even if the surround channels were playing something when in Dolby Digital only mode). When that happens, I hear a slight digital noise if I get super close to the surround channels. Sometimes, surround and surround back speakers will play.

So why do the surround channels stop playing when using a 7.1 mode? Why do all speakers play sometimes? Is this normal or a bug of the AVR-4520? Any body noticed the same?
Thanks in advance.

@Vyrolan ( and others interested)-
VERY inexpensive digital thermometer handy to monitor audio gear temps:
http://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Digital-Terrarium-Thermometer/dp/B000MD3MFA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1355708844&sr=8-1&keywords=Zoo+Med+Digital+Terrarium+Thermometer
Edited by SoundofMind - 12/16/12 at 6:03pm

I have recently gotten a beautiful SoundDesigns (forum sponsor) cabinet. It is pretty well ventilated but with glass doors is not as wide open as my old cabinet. I measure the hottest part of the top of the case of the 4311 at 114F.

Opinions:
1 adding a fan is wise and worthwhile or
2.don't bother

BTW, a great VERY inexpensive digital thermometer:
http://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Digital-Terrarium-Thermometer/dp/B000MD3MFA/ref=sr_1_1?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1355709663&sr=1-1&keywords=Zoo+Med+Digital+Terrarium+Thermometer

Well I've did some reading and trying and its clear the 4520 cannot do what the 4308 can do with assigning amps on the fly to zone2 or zone3.

That's a step backward in flexibility IMO.
It says on page 141 if you re-assign amps then you have to re-run Audyssey

My 4308 could do that without re-running Audyssey, it would just "downshift" from 7.1 to 5.1 main + 2 amp stereo zone 2 or 3 or even 3.1 main and 2 amp stereo both zone 2 & 3.
For whatever reason Denon took it out of the 4520.

I've done that countless times with my 4308....now I'm glad I did not throw away my 12+ year old Onkyo 787, I'll use that to power my zone2 and zone3.
It's an inconvenience, and some more wiring, rack change, and remote programming....

Oh well....



Edited by mtbdudex - 12/16/12 at 6:46pm

Quick comparison of the 4308 CI back vs 4520CI back

I failed to realize when buying the 4520CI that I could not do what the 4308CI could for direct driving zone 2 and/or zone3, and you can see the 4308 had (11) pairs of binding posts, same as the 4520.
So for that ability the 4520CI would have needed at least (13) pairs of binding posts to offer even 1 zone direct connection ability, and I'm sure Denon considered the very limited usage of those and kept 11.

Not that I used the wireless ability of the 4308 in the basement HT, I hardwired cat5e there during the 2007 build phase, but since the 4308 moved to the family room now I get internet access via its wireless, so glad the 4308CI has that.

4308CI


4520CI

Been living and using my 4520 now for two weeks. Have come from 3808 4308 and background including a short stint with Yam Aventage 3010 (very nice avr) . I can report back that I am loving this AVR. I love everything about it . The sound and the physical presence of this AVR are what I have been waiting for. The 4311 reminded me of my 3808 with its budget looking nickel plated connecters and cheap looking biding posts and its smallish stature. I am so glad Denon have returned to the 4308 like body.
OK there is some functionally lacking on the remote but how often would I use it? answer "nil".

I find myself confused on occasion with regards to what mode my 4520 is in.  This is because of two changes:  first, the elimination of the blue A-DSX light, and second, the removal of the A-DSX button on the remote.  Sorry in advance, Batpig, if you consider this another one of my nitpics, but try to understand my frustration.  Here are the 4520 cinema modes, selected by holding down the "Movie" key on the remote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Note that modes 6 through 14 all have the same indication on the front panel display, i.e. "Audyssey DSX", IOW the front display no longer provides enough information to determine the current mode.  The remote now has a handy "Info" button.  When pressing it in modes 6 through 14, it only provides partial information, specifically it doesn't say whether Heights, Wides, or both Heights and Wides have been selected.  On previous models, depressing the DSX button on the remote resulted in a screen display clarifying which speakers were being used.

 

So, how do you know what DSX speakers are in use?  You have to press and hold the "Movie" button, which also causes a momentary drop-out of the audio.  Does anyone else find this somewhat cumbersome and disconcerting? 

 

And what is the mode “Dolby Digital + PLIIx Cinema”?  And why does the mode “PLIIx Cinema A-DSX” show when the Info button is pressed as “Dolby Digital + PLIIx Cinema + A-DSX”?  How can there be a mode with both Dolby Digital and PLIIx at the same time?

 

Maybe I just don’t get it….

Edit: At least for those of using a programmable remote, it is easy to add the old DSX button to display which DSX mode the receiver is in.

I have found once I set the speaker combination under Audyssey Surround (Heights & Wides) and then select D.D. EX + Heights & Wides I have not had to change it. Same with selecting DTS NEO:X with Blu ray titles. I have not had to select that after picking it once for DTS-HD and D.D. True HD.

Joe, that is certainly true if you don't *want* to change it. However, depending on the quality of the content, I may want to turn off either the heights or the wides. Then it remembers this new setting, and without the DSX button, it is cumbersome to see what more you are in. A nitpick, I know.

I've had my unit a few days now and I'm happy with it.
There are a few things I'm hoping will improve in future firmware revisions though. For example; the acceleration when pressing volume up/down should be halved - it's crazy fast now! More actual info in the info overlay would be nice as well(video details, audio input).

I'm also looking for discrete harmony codes for Neo:X: Movie, Music and Game.. I'm hoping logitech support can convert the strange remote codes in the detailed pdf (link in first post).

edit: No Neo:X codes for Movie, Music, Game in the PDF-file
Edited by trallala - 12/18/12 at 2:01am

PLIIx is what provides the simulated audio to the "rear surround" speakers from the DD 5.1 audio.

Don't look for this to change anytime soon as it has been a trait of all Denon remotes going back at least a few years if not longer.

 

JD, what is the difference between "Dolby Digital EX" and "Dolby Digital + PLIIx Cinema"? 

 

Edit:  OK, I see in the manual that "Dolby Digital EX" is 6.1, and that would mean "Dolby Digital + PLIIx Cinema", is simulated 7.1, correct?

Edited by AustinJerry - 12/17/12 at 5:44am

Can someone confirm I'm not crazy in thinking those fans should be working? Does the group agree that I should just RMA this one?

Yep you are right.

Anyone can verify this on his setup? Please?

I don't have this issue with any 5.1 source.. all my surround and surround backs work...

My experience is the same as Pete's.  I turned off my XPA-3 so I could hear the surrounds clearly, and tuned to a satellite DD 5.1 program.  In DD mode, the side surrounds are on.  In DD+PLIIx, I can distinctly hear both the side and rear surrounds.  The fact that the behavior you are observing is not consistent leads me to believe that you may have an issue.

Thanks for your input guys.
The thing is that it is not always the same. Sometimes, I get both the surrounds and surround backs to play. I know that some of the channels I'm watching do not actually broadcast true Dolby Digital 5.1. The receiver sees it as a 5.1 signal, but I think the station actually encodes everything it broadcasts as DD5.1 regardless of the actual source encoding. Basically, my receiver will display 5.1 even if only the two fronts are actually outputting stuff. Maybe it explains what I hear. Maybe the PLII decoder has a hard time generating extra channels because the content is not actually real DD5.1. For example, if it is an old stereo movie that was encoded with Dolby Pro Logic at the time, the station will put the stereo channels in the two front channels of the DD5.1 feed they broadcast. If I play that in DD mode, only the two mains will play. If I add the PLIIx processing for surround back, I think the surround back will then play what the Pro Logic encoding had encoded for the surround channel in the original encoding of the movie. So this might be why I end up with surround back playing but not the surrounds. Dow this makes sense to you?
I still can't explain why sometimes the DD5.1 feed will have content for the surrounds which will disappear as soon as I engage PLIIx.

I'll keep an eye on this and try changing the channel when it happens to see if it is doing it across all the digital cable channels or just on some of the one with poor audio encoding.

Thank you very much for summarizing this up, my thoughts exactly.
I'd like to add related to displays:

Why is Denon and other AVR makers sticking with the 1990's dot matrix display instead of the newer and easier to read displays found on common devices today?

This

vs

This


I hope this is not a "legacy thing" holdout, truly the organization of info could be much better, and flexible to firmware updates instead of hard layout dependent.

Audyssey set my speakers to large. Is there a way in the Audyssey setup to set my speakers to small and set the crossover frequency?