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The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 60

post #1771 of 7732
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by arg617 View Post

I'm on track to finishing my home renovation and figured now is a good time to start thinking about a receiver. I recently purchased the NHT "Absolute 5.1 Surround Package" and I will be adding additional speakers over time. Browsing NHT's site I came across Marantz, and researching Marantz I came to discover this Denon AVR. As you may be able to tell, I am fairly new to this whole audio/video world, but after a few weeks of reading through this entire thread, among others, I came to a few conclusions/realizations.

1. My viewing room is far from ideal. While the space itself is fairly compact (~15' x 20'), I have an open floor plan, so the effective area is much larger (~25' x 51').

2. My speaker choice might make filling the space difficult as they might not be efficient enough. (I am still trying to figure out how specs translate to efficiency.....)

My question is - would the Denon 4520 be a good choice to help deliver the power I need with no external amps? I want a fairly immersive experience, and while I know that is subjective I hope that the objective is somewhat clear.

While it's true that the NHT's are of below average sensitivity (only 86dB for the front towers), I think you will be OK in terms of amp power given the size of your space. With the speakers, the open floor plan is less of an issue, it's more about the absolute distance to the listener. It does seem like the couch is pretty far back in that diagram, if you could pull it forward a bit it would help in that respect.

That said, it depends how loud you want to play. If you are looking for full on movie theater ass kicking volume, then the cheapest route is more efficient speakers, not a more expensive receiver. The important thing to understand is that the dB scale is logarithmic -- 10dB increase requires TEN TIMES as much power. That works out to approximately double the power for a 3dB increase. So switching from 86dB speakers to 89dB sensitivity speakers is like doubling your amplifier's power.

The open plan and the subsequent huge volume is much more relevant for the SUBWOOFER which has to pressurize the space. I would make sure to budget for a really nice sub (or two) in your plans. $1K on subwoofer(s) would be the minimum IMHO to match the size of the space and the quality of the speakers/receiver you are looking at.

If it helps clear the budget, I would recommend going with the 4311CI instead of the 4520CI, as it should offer the same sound quality but at a pretty hefty discount. You lose a couple of newer features but unless you care about 4K or the matrix HDMI switch for another zone it's nothing of consequence.
post #1772 of 7732
Thanks for the replies so far.

Those two objects in front of the screen are poufs (for lack of a better term). They're basically small, puffy objects used as extra seating or footstools.
Unfortunately I don't think I'll be able to pull the couch closer since the lighting is already in place in the ceiling, but I'll see if it's possible once we move back in. There is a chance it could be worked out. The fronts are actually the Absolute Towers so I'm hoping the distance isn't too much of an issue.

I do want full on movie theater ass kicking volume, but I'm not quite ready to replace my still unopened speakers just yet. I do want to remain somewhat futureproof however with the receiver, which is one reason I don't want to go for the 4311. While this is still all new to me I have the feeling that I'll probably keep the receiver longer than any speakers. I've also run speaker wire for two additional zones (2 channel audio at the kitchen and dining area), although I'm still not clear how the 4520 handles that. I won't lie though - part of the decision is emotional. I first read about the Marantz 8801 and talked myself out of a purchase just moments before buying the combo "deal".

With that said, I'll probably start with what I have and add another sub if having just one is not fulfilling.
post #1773 of 7732
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Those two objects in front of the screen are poufs (for lack of a better term). They're basically small, puffy objects used as extra seating or footstools.

sounds like something a man would buy tongue.gif "Honey, we need more poufs!"


That said, a couple of things you should consider:

1. as SoM mentioned, remember that the "surrounds" in a 5.1 setup are at the SIDES, not in the rear. If you could add another pair of those Absolute Wall Speakers and mount them on the walls to either side of the couch, facing in, then you would have a nice 7ch setup. They will be slightly in front of the couch (although again scooting the couch forward, even a foot, will be beneficial all around) but that's not a huge deal. You will get a much more immersive "wrap around" surround effect without having a gaping hole to either side in terms of sound coverage.

2. the sub that's included with that setup is definitely going to be underpowered for the size of the space. It's only rated to 29Hz at the -3dB point which means it starts rolling off under 35Hz or so. The peak output ratings are decent enough but if you are going for "full ass kicking theater volume" it will undoubtedly be the weak link in your system. It's really meant to be a stylish and compact complement to the Absolute speakers, but a 12.6" cube with a 10" woofer just isn't going to cut it for the big LFE effects. Modern action movies put a lot of strain on subwoofers and to reach near reference volumes you need a lot of output.

Is there any way you could return just the sub and keep the rest of the 5ch setup? It seems a shame to pop $2k on a receiver and then not be able to crank the system to the levels you desire because that little sub is holding you back. For the $499 msrp of that sub you can get a lot more output, for example this Outlaw LFM-1 Plus or the SVS PB-1000.
post #1774 of 7732
OK, I'll have to explain to my wife that batpig and SoM recommend trading the poufs for another pair of Absolute Wall speakers for a 7ch setup biggrin.gif I think I can swing that.

I have to admit that I'm still confused when it comes to Hz and dB and their relationship to each other and to an amplifier's power output. I'm not sure if I can still return the sub, but I might be able to resell it or use it somewhere else (can it be used as a sub for one of the 2 channel zones, maybe with a separate amp added?) I'll take a look at those other subs. Thanks for the heads up/recommendation!
post #1775 of 7732
Thread Starter 
I think the poufs can survive smile.gif but I would still go for another pair of Absolute Walls for 7ch wink.gif

You could use the sub in another room with Zone 2/3 since it does have speaker wire inputs + outputs. For a 2ch setup you'd probably run the Zone 2 speaker wire straight to the sub and then run speaker wire from the outputs on the sub to the two speakers.
post #1776 of 7732
If I am lucky my AVR will start shipping tomorrow.wink.gif
post #1777 of 7732
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan webster View Post

I just ordered one of these from Mike at avs. I should have it tuesday. I guess i should update the firmware before i do anything else. I will try it using the internal amps and using the my gemstone 200 X 7 channel amp and compare how it sounds both ways. I would be very suprised if it sounds as good using the denon amps. I will post my opinion next week. Now i have to get 2 more speakers for front heights so i can try 11.2 dts.

I ordered one around the same time as you from Mike and it has not even shipped yet.rolleyes.gif
post #1778 of 7732
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyrolan View Post

Can anyone please confirm that those fans near the front corners are actually working on their unit? They replaced mine today with a new one out of the box, and it's fans aren't working either. A digital thermometer just sitting on top of the case is reading 117.3 degrees F...so I have no doubt this one will start having heat problems too.

Vyrolan - you can buy USB powered fans from Cooler Guys on Amazon. Here is the link http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002NVC1DS/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00

I power it using the USB port on the back of the unit. They are quiet and keep the amp cool.
post #1779 of 7732
Reposted from the 8801 Owner's thread ....
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Early Christmas card - got an email from audyssey that the Pro version has been updated today to support the 8801 and to fix the slow serial speeds for 4520 owners...
post #1780 of 7732
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Reposted from the 8801 Owner's thread ....
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Early Christmas card - got an email from audyssey that the Pro version has been updated today to support the 8801 and to fix the slow serial speeds for 4520 owners...

Great news!
I'll be going Pro in January.


Sent from my 32GB iPhone4 using Tapatalk
post #1781 of 7732

I have tested the Audyssey Pro serial transfer rates, and the slow transfer rate is indeed resolved.  I am now measuring a transfer rate that is actually marginally faster than the 4311.  An 8-position calibration for a full 11.1 configuration now will take 58 minutes, versus a full 60 minutes for the 4311.

 

Needless to say, for 4520 owners who have (or are considering purchasing) the Pro Kit, this is huge.  I'll report my results to Audyssey and close the case.



Edit: I should have been more clear. This is the result of an update to the Pro software, not the recent 4520 FW update.
Edited by AustinJerry - 12/20/12 at 5:49am
post #1782 of 7732
^^^

WOOT!!!

is that in the most recent firmware release?

edit: nope, i see from the pro thread that it's a patch on the pro side... cool, even better...
Edited by ccotenj - 12/20/12 at 4:17am
post #1783 of 7732
I will be using Audyssey for the first time today and wanted some insight before I screw something up and have to start all over. tongue.gif

I've included screenshots from my 4520 and subwoofer manuals. First question, is the 'direct mode' discussed in the 4520 manual just referring to the AVR direct listening mode? I'm assuming so. Second, since the subwoofer controls don't match the suggested settings in the 4520 manual, how would you recommend I set the dials on the sub?

I know there is no 'correct setting' for a sub, only puzzled as to what the control setting should be for the Audyssey to do it's job. Or should I fine tune the sub before starting Audyssey? Feels like the-chicken-or-the-egg scenario lol. Setup in my sig.

01 denon manual.jpg 67k .jpg file 02 sub back.jpg 109k .jpg file 03 sub controls.jpg 131k .jpg file
post #1784 of 7732
Quote:
Originally Posted by acidrock69 View Post

I will be using Audyssey for the first time today and wanted some insight before I screw something up and have to start all over. tongue.gif

I've included screenshots from my 4520 and subwoofer manuals. First question, is the 'direct mode' discussed in the 4520 manual just referring to the AVR direct listening mode? I'm assuming so. Second, since the subwoofer controls don't match the suggested settings in the 4520 manual, how would you recommend I set the dials on the sub?

I know there is no 'correct setting' for a sub, only puzzled as to what the control setting should be for the Audyssey to do it's job. Or should I fine tune the sub before starting Audyssey? Feels like the-chicken-or-the-egg scenario lol. Setup in my sig.

01 denon manual.jpg 67k .jpg file 02 sub back.jpg 109k .jpg file 03 sub controls.jpg 131k .jpg file

 

This will help you with the sub:

 

f)3.    How do I set the controls on my subwoofer before running MultEQ?

 

If you are new to Audyssey, the Audyssey FAQ and Audyssey 101 linked in my sig should tell you pretty much everything you need to know.

post #1785 of 7732
Hi,

Having a 4520 I just finished a fresh 12 measures Pro calibration of my 11.2 install with the new 3.6 software... a measure now only takes @ 4 mn 50s (including 12 transfers in my case) to be performed. smile.gif

I'd say that sujectively, it's slightly faster than with my previous 4311.

Merci Luke (and Chris) + Jerry for the pressure...

Hugo
Edited by Hugo S - 12/20/12 at 8:53am
post #1786 of 7732
Quote:
Originally Posted by nsaldanh View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyrolan View Post

Can anyone please confirm that those fans near the front corners are actually working on their unit? They replaced mine today with a new one out of the box, and it's fans aren't working either. A digital thermometer just sitting on top of the case is reading 117.3 degrees F...so I have no doubt this one will start having heat problems too.

Vyrolan - you can buy USB powered fans from Cooler Guys on Amazon. Here is the link http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002NVC1DS/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00

I power it using the USB port on the back of the unit. They are quiet and keep the amp cool.
Yea I know, but I shouldn't have to buy fans when the thing is sitting out completely open on all sides. =p We explicitly designed our cabinet to handle the receiver being out and exposed so as to avoid having to do any active cooling for it. Although, as AustinJerry suggested, this replacement does seem to be working ok...it stabilized and held at 117F through many hours of constant operation, so hopefully it will be fine.
post #1787 of 7732
Does anyone know the full story with the IR ports on the back of the 4520? As most people I imagine, I'd much prefer to direct connect to the back than have an emitter in the front, but there's a lot of conflicting info online (and most of it is multiple years old) about the ports. Are they stereo or mono? What's the pinout? Etc Etc Etc... Is anyone using it successfully? What cable are they using?
post #1788 of 7732
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo S View Post

Hi,
Having a 4520 I just finished a fresh 12 measures Pro calibration of my 11.2 install with the new 3.6 software... a measure now only takes @ 4 mn 50s (including 12 transfers in my case) to be performed. smile.gif
I'd say that sujectively, it's slightly faster than with my previous 4311.
Merci Luke (and Chris) + Jerry for the pressure...
Hugo

Yes, Hugo, it is a lot more pleasant now, for sure!
post #1789 of 7732
Thread Starter 
The ports are standard, mono "mini jack" sized (1/8" or 3.5mm) connectors. I have heard though that a stereo mini-jack cable will still work, but a mono cable will be the safest bet.
post #1790 of 7732
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by acidrock69 View Post

I will be using Audyssey for the first time today and wanted some insight before I screw something up and have to start all over. tongue.gif

I've included screenshots from my 4520 and subwoofer manuals. First question, is the 'direct mode' discussed in the 4520 manual just referring to the AVR direct listening mode? I'm assuming so. Second, since the subwoofer controls don't match the suggested settings in the 4520 manual, how would you recommend I set the dials on the sub?

I know there is no 'correct setting' for a sub, only puzzled as to what the control setting should be for the Audyssey to do it's job. Or should I fine tune the sub before starting Audyssey? Feels like the-chicken-or-the-egg scenario lol. Setup in my sig.

01 denon manual.jpg 67k .jpg file 02 sub back.jpg 109k .jpg file 03 sub controls.jpg 131k .jpg file

You should definitely read Keith's links above, but to answer a couple of points:

- the "direct" mode does NOT refer to the AVR settings -- all these settings are ignored anyway during calibration. It refers to the setting that some subs have which bypasses all internal filtering (sometimes also designated with a "crossover bypass" switch, or a "direct LFE input" on the back). Your sub doesn't appear to have this, so you can ignore this part.

- the point of this setting is that, when used with a modern digital processor, you want to avoid all of those manual controls on the sub so they don't interfere with what the processor is doing.

- most of the settings DO match what is described in the links above... e.g. phase, level, auto on/off, etc.

Anyway, what you want to do with your sub is:

1. Set power to "ON" during calibration (not auto) to make sure the sub is "awake". After calibration you can set it back to "Auto".

2. Set Phase to 0

3. Turn the "cut off frequency" knob all the way up (to the max 150Hz)

4. For the sub level control, you are going to fine tune it to a volume that is fairly close to 75dB with the internal test tones so it can calibrate properly. The 4520 has a subwoofer leveling feature as the first step of Audyssey so you don't need a separate meter.

5. The "Bass Contour" switch is the only one which isn't covered in the standard recommendations. You definitely want to leave this FLAT during calibration, because the Audyssey MultEQ program is going to try to equalize your sub as flat as possible. The Contour dial introduces a "hump" centered at 60Hz to deliver a bit more mid-bass impact during movies, but if you put this "hump" in place before calibration then MultEQ is going to waste its processing resources trying to flatten it back out again. So calibrate "FLAT" and then you can adjust this dial to taste post-calibration if you want a little more "slam" for movie effects. Although I recommend you first take a couple of weeks to listen to it calibrated flat to get used to what "reference" bass sounds like, and then you can tweak to taste.
post #1791 of 7732
I decided I need a new AVR and after exhaustive research I boiled it down to Denon. The only question was do I get the 4311 or 4520.
I really spent a lot of time going back a forth between the two. The 4520 is not that much different than the 4311.
So do I really need the extra features of the 4520? No, I don't. Do I want them? Sure. Never being one that lets need outweigh what I want tongue.gif I ordered the 4520 from our forum sponsor AV Science.
If you're thinking about ordering one, I can tell you that almost everyone is out of stock. Unless, of course, you want to pay a good deal more from the big box store.
I should have it sometime in January. I'm not a fan of waiting but that's the breaks...it's not really that long anyway
post #1792 of 7732
I assume the list of IR codes from the Denon site (linked in first post) is complete and exhaustive? We have buttons on our remotes for toggling Dyn Volume, LFC, etc for various programming and/or times of day. Along those lines I wish there was a discrete command for cycling through levels of dialog enhancer. I suppose I could center channel level up/down as a decent proxy for the same thing. Is that a decent alternative and are there any downsides?
post #1793 of 7732
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyrolan View Post

I assume the list of IR codes from the Denon site (linked in first post) is complete and exhaustive? We have buttons on our remotes for toggling Dyn Volume, LFC, etc for various programming and/or times of day. Along those lines I wish there was a discrete command for cycling through levels of dialog enhancer. I suppose I could center channel level up/down as a decent proxy for the same thing. Is that a decent alternative and are there any downsides?

You can look at what the dialog enhancer is doing here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1430049/the-official-denon-avr-4520ci-thread/480#post_22520305.

ICBW, but it looks like the effect of dialog enhancer is different than what you would get by simply adjusting the center channel trim.
post #1794 of 7732
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

This will help you with the sub:

f)3.    How do I set the controls on my subwoofer before running MultEQ?


If you are new to Audyssey, the Audyssey FAQ and Audyssey 101 linked in my sig should tell you pretty much everything you need to know.

Fantastic! Thanks for this, ran Audyssey last night and I'm very happy with how balanced everything sounds. smile.gif
post #1795 of 7732
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyrolan View Post

I assume the list of IR codes from the Denon site (linked in first post) is complete and exhaustive? We have buttons on our remotes for toggling Dyn Volume, LFC, etc for various programming and/or times of day. Along those lines I wish there was a discrete command for cycling through levels of dialog enhancer. I suppose I could center channel level up/down as a decent proxy for the same thing. Is that a decent alternative and are there any downsides?

You can look at what the dialog enhancer is doing here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1430049/the-official-denon-avr-4520ci-thread/480#post_22520305.

ICBW, but it looks like the effect of dialog enhancer is different than what you would get by simply adjusting the center channel trim.
Yea I agree...just that my wife's biggest complaint is dialog, but other times the dialog enhancer is just brutal and it sounds like they're screaming. Since the remote can't adjust it with discrete commands, I was thinking to maybe leave the dialog enhancer on Low...and use the center channel level as a indirect not-optimal way of adjusting dialog volume. I wish we could just adjust it directly with discrete commands. You can toggle Dyn EQ, Dyn Volume, and LFC with discrete commands. =(
post #1796 of 7732
Quote:
Originally Posted by acidrock69 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

This will help you with the sub:

f)3.    How do I set the controls on my subwoofer before running MultEQ?


If you are new to Audyssey, the Audyssey FAQ and Audyssey 101 linked in my sig should tell you pretty much everything you need to know.

Fantastic! Thanks for this, ran Audyssey last night and I'm very happy with how balanced everything sounds. smile.gif

 

You're welcome!  Glad you are enjoying your system.

post #1797 of 7732
One thing though, I was happy to see the unit practically set the network connection on its own but now it doesn't reconnect after a recent loss of signal. It's connected directly to my router and resetting the router isn't helping. DHCP is on so there really aren't any settings for me to play with. The IP is blank and after running diagnostics it says physical connection OK, router access Error, internet access Error.

Turning off the unit does nothing how about unplugging the power cord? I haven't saved the unit settings yet so I'm skittish about experimenting lol.
post #1798 of 7732
Folks,

I was struggling with my previous setup until few months ago and after following this thread for few weeks I called Mike and upgrade my Old 4806 to the AVR 4520.

The migration was very easy and nice from features and SQ perspective. I'm running a 7.1 config in the leaving room plus Z2 and Z3 split in house.

I have faced one challenge and I'd like to ask if any of you have found a solution for that. I live in Brazil and it's not so simple for me to walk to a BestBuy around the block to get a new device mad.gif

I have an Old Marantz RC4000 that worked quite well with the 4806 and all other devices I have but the PS3. Every time I had to adjust something, few minutes "learning/copying" would just fix any problem and I could just drop the unique RC at the drawer.

Guess What? It doesn't work with 4520 RC. Part of the commands from 4806 worked fine on RC5400 and some others I was able to copy w/o a problem. However few others, are simply just not working despite the IR learning process accused OK. For Instance: Selecting Sources for Z2 or Z3, some sources for Main Zone ( AUX2, Internet Radio or iPod/USB).

Has any one found / created a PCF that works in full with the 4520?

Besides this issue with the RC, the only other issue I had, I've not been able to set a Static IP Address on the Network settings. Every time I did it, aiming to simplify its management through iPad/iPhones as I use the system around the house, it lost the network connection. I had to fix it with turn around and I just love this AVR. it's great.

Thank you in advance. I wish you all great holidays.

Adriano
post #1799 of 7732
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolza171 View Post


*snip* ... I've not been able to set a Static IP Address on the Network settings. Every time I did it, aiming to simplify its management through iPad/iPhones as I use the system around the house, it lost the network connection. I had to fix it with turn around and I just love this AVR. it's great.
Thank you in advance. I wish you all great holidays.
Adriano
Assuming you use a router there is an easy way to solve this. Have your router reserve a specific IP-adress for your denon device. Each time the denon ask for a IP via DHCP it'll get the same one smile.gif Look for DHCP reservarion in your router interface.
post #1800 of 7732
I need some help... I am coming from an AVR-5805 and have purchased an AVR-4520ci. I notice at reference levels the 4520ci has no where near the output the 5805 does. I have ran both in 7 channel surround modes with 8 subs. I am toying with the idea of using the 4520 as a preamp and using the 5805 to drive the speakers. My L/R/C are Klipsch KL7800 thx and my SR/RL are Klipsch 5800w and my SBR/SBL are Klipsch 5650s. Any thoughts or input to my idea. Thanks.
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