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The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 62

post #1831 of 7828
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serenity View Post

Denon 5805 > 4520CI, with 3 subwoofers
 

 

Serenity, I have a similar setup to yours.  There are two choices: 

 

1)  You can connect all three subs to one sub channel on the 4520 and optimize the subs as you would on a XT system, not using the dual-sub capabilities of SubEQ HT.  While this is a more complex approach, there are advocates of this approach when using three subs.  I prefer method #2 below.

 

2)  Utilize SubEQ HT as JD has already recommended.  In my case, I followed these steps, which may be applicable for you as well.  This procedure is meant for three identical subs--if you have different sub models, then the problem becomes even more complex, and approach #1 above may be better.  It is also expected that you have experimented with various placements for the subs in your room so that you have a good idea which placement produces the smoothest response BEFORE running Audyssey.

 

- First, gain-match the subs as per the procedure here.

- Next, connect two subs using a Y-cable, plug the cable into Sub1 on the AVR, and locate the subs in the room so that they are equidistant from the MLP. 

- Then place the third sub where you want it, and connect it to Sub2.

- Make sure the AVR is configured for two subs.

- Launch the Audyssey room correction routine and progress to the screen where the subs are level-set.  Important:  do not change the sub levels, regardless of what the Audyssey screen reads.  You have already gain-matched the subs, and you don't want to disturb these settings.  Audyssey will adjust the sub trims during the calibration.

- Run a full 8-point calibration. 

- After it has completed, inspect the trims for Sub1 and Sub2.  If either one is at the limit (i.e. -12 or +12), then you need to go back to the first step and run the gain-matching again, using a lower or higher gain setting.  You do NOT want the sub trims to be maxed out after the calibration.

 

If, after completing this procedure, you feel the overall bass level is too low, you can use the sub trim adjustment in the AVR (do not adjust the sub gains) to achieve your preferred bass level.

post #1832 of 7828
Quote:
Originally Posted by nsaldanh View Post

Vyrolan - you can buy USB powered fans from Cooler Guys on Amazon. Here is the link http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002NVC1DS/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00
I power it using the USB port on the back of the unit. They are quiet and keep the amp cool.

Thanks for the link.

I'm not comfortable with permanently using usb ports to power fans and started searching for other alternative.

The same people who furnish the fans in your link, have a website. Something particularly interesting is using flexible vent duct tubing to place your fan where you want it and then use the tubing to either pull or push hot air out. http://www.coolerguys.com/compcooling.html
post #1833 of 7828
There shouldn't be any issue using the back panel USB port, however, you can also accomplish the same goal using a smart power strip.
post #1834 of 7828
Are there any AVR-4520CI owners who use to own Denon's previous flagship AVR-5308CI? I am still sitting on the fence as to upgrade my 5308CI to XT32 or purchase the 4520CI.

I'd appreciate any insight and feedback anyone can provide.

Thank you and Merry Christmas.
post #1835 of 7828
If it were me I would update the 5308 unless you plan on going to 11.2 but if you are only going to run 7.2 then update. When I owned the 5308 it was the best Denon Receiver for sound quality that I have ever owned.
post #1836 of 7828
If the upgraded 5308 is like the upgraded Denon AVP, then you should be able to get 9.2 (plus another .1 for the transducer channel or another sub) which I am running. You have to decide between height/wide, but can't do both. SJ
post #1837 of 7828
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Thanks for the link.
I'm not comfortable with permanently using usb ports to power fans and started searching for other alternative.
The same people who furnish the fans in your link, have a website. Something particularly interesting is using flexible vent duct tubing to place your fan where you want it and then use the tubing to either pull or push hot air out. http://www.coolerguys.com/compcooling.html

I eventually used a power strip from Radio Shack that allows you to turn on or off all the power outlets based on the control outlet being used or not. I plug in the amplifier into the control outlet and the USB fans are connected to a 5V 1 A power supply. With this config the USB fans only turn on when the amp is on.
post #1838 of 7828
Quote:
Originally Posted by nsaldanh View Post

I eventually used a power strip from Radio Shack that allows you to turn on or off all the power outlets based on the control outlet being used or not. I plug in the amplifier into the control outlet and the USB fans are connected to a 5V 1 A power supply. With this config the USB fans only turn on when the amp is on.

This. Works great.
post #1839 of 7828
I got a 4520 about 10 days ago and the the audyssey pro kit a week ago. The 4520 replaced a Denon 4310 that I had for almost 3 years. One thing that I have noticed is that the bass for music sources - specifically CD, is a lot less when compared to the 4310 that was calibrated with the stock audyssey capability that comes with the amp. I have tried calibrating the 4520 with the stock audyssey capability as well with the same result -- little to no bass for music sources.

Audyssey pro sets the crossovers at 80 Hz all around and LPF for LFE is set at 120 Hz.

Movies sound really good with the settings computed by audyssey pro. There is plenty of bass. The computed level for my sub is -2 dB. I find myself having to boost it to about + 8 dB before the music starts to sound better. I also listen to music at low levels - I don't think I have ever played my system at reference level.

I have Dynamic EQ on, audyssey flat and dynamic volume off.

Any ideas on what I might tweak?

Thanks very much.
post #1840 of 7828
^ this FAQ link may provide some insight: http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1/51750#user_f5
post #1841 of 7828
Yes I read that thread - I suspect it's me as I have gotten used to more bass over the years. Older receivers allowed me to tweak it to my heart's content. This one does not. I've been trying to get used to the audyssey pro reference settings - and so far I'm still missing the settings that I used on my old amps.

I listen at low volumes and as such I boost the bass, cut mid range and boost treble just a bit. I know that the audyssey pro curve does allow you to cut the mid range a bit - and I use that. I am still tweaking those curves to find something that I like.

Thanks very much for your assistance.
post #1842 of 7828
Are you listening to music in STEREO mode as the front mains may default to LARGE in that instance, so you must change them to SMALL in the custom 2CH Playback menu (p. 145 OM)?
post #1843 of 7828
Quote:
Originally Posted by nsaldanh View Post

I got a 4520 about 10 days ago and the the audyssey pro kit a week ago. The 4520 replaced a Denon 4310 that I had for almost 3 years. One thing that I have noticed is that the bass for music sources - specifically CD, is a lot less when compared to the 4310 that was calibrated with the stock audyssey capability that comes with the amp. I have tried calibrating the 4520 with the stock audyssey capability as well with the same result -- little to no bass for music sources.
Audyssey pro sets the crossovers at 80 Hz all around and LPF for LFE is set at 120 Hz.
Movies sound really good with the settings computed by audyssey pro. There is plenty of bass. The computed level for my sub is -2 dB. I find myself having to boost it to about + 8 dB before the music starts to sound better. I also listen to music at low levels - I don't think I have ever played my system at reference level.
I have Dynamic EQ on, audyssey flat and dynamic volume off.
Any ideas on what I might tweak?
Thanks very much.

What is RLO set at within Dynamic EQ? Have you tried adjusting the Reference Level Offset?
post #1844 of 7828
^^
Keep in mind that adjusting the RLO will reduce the bass level even more. frown.gif
post #1845 of 7828
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
Keep in mind that adjusting the RLO will reduce the bass level even more. frown.gif

Just wanted to make sure it isn't set at 15.
post #1846 of 7828
Quote:
Originally Posted by nsaldanh View Post

Yes I read that thread - I suspect it's me as I have gotten used to more bass over the years. Older receivers allowed me to tweak it to my heart's content. This one does not. I've been trying to get used to the audyssey pro reference settings - and so far I'm still missing the settings that I used on my old amps.
I listen at low volumes and as such I boost the bass, cut mid range and boost treble just a bit. I know that the audyssey pro curve does allow you to cut the mid range a bit - and I use that. I am still tweaking those curves to find something that I like.
Thanks very much for your assistance.

 

Recall that XT did not have as many filters for the subwoofer channel(s).  With XT32, you are likely getting a smoother bass response which, as you probably know, can sound a bit thinner than what you are used to.  There is nothing wrong with adjusting the sub trims in the AVR to achieve a more desirable level of bass.  IMO, a good starting point for your AVR settings would be all speakers set to "small", Xovers at 80Hz, DEQ On, RLO Off, and Dynamic Volume Off.  Then adjust the Sub1+Sub2 trim level control until it sounds right.

post #1847 of 7828
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

Just wanted to make sure it isn't set at 15.

Ah . got it. smile.gif
post #1848 of 7828
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Ah . got it. smile.gif

And you gave me the frown.gif emoticon eek.gifsmile.gif

Happy Holidays JD - Thanks for all the time you invest here!
post #1849 of 7828
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Are you listening to music in STEREO mode as the front mains may default to LARGE in that instance, so you must change them to SMALL in the custom 2CH Playback menu (p. 145 OM)?

I listen either in Multi Channel Stereo or Dolby PL II music. I don't use direct or pure stereo as I know that will disable the sub. I have in wall speakers that go down to about 80 Hz though. Audyssey pro calculates the crossovers at 80 Hz. I am wondering if I also have a hole around 80 Hz.
post #1850 of 7828
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
Keep in mind that adjusting the RLO will reduce the bass level even more. frown.gif

I have tried with it set at 0 dB and 5 dB. 0 dB appears to have the most bass.
post #1851 of 7828
Quote:
Originally Posted by nsaldanh View Post


I listen either in Multi Channel Stereo or Dolby PL II music. I don't use direct or pure stereo as I know that will disable the sub. I have in wall speakers that go down to about 80 Hz though. Audyssey pro calculates the crossovers at 80 Hz. I am wondering if I also have a hole around 80 Hz.

 

With in-wall speakers, I would try a higher crossover as well, as high as 120Hz.

post #1852 of 7828
My sub has a frequency response of 23 - 120 Hz. I assume that it starts to roll off at 100 or 110 Hz. Given that my in wall speakers go down to 80 Hz, I set the cross overs at 100 Hz.

That seems to have helped. It now sounds much richer.

I am beginning to wonder if this has been my problem with the 4520 and Audyssey pro. My old 4310 had the crossover set to 100 Hz based on it's measurements using the stock audyssey mike and built in setup. Prior to the 4310 I had a Yamaha RXV 2700 that also calculated the crossover at 100 Hz.

Thanks very much AustinJerry.

On a separate note. I first calibrated this amp with the stock Denon supplied mike and built in software. When I ran audyssey pro I did not turn off Dynamic Equalization. Should I have done that?
post #1853 of 7828
Quote:
Originally Posted by nsaldanh View Post

I have tried with it set at 0 dB and 5 dB. 0 dB appears to have the most bass.

Correct. Any setting other than 0db will decrease the bass/surround boost resulting from Dyn EQ being enabled.
post #1854 of 7828
Quote:
Originally Posted by nsaldanh View Post

My sub has a frequency response of 23 - 120 Hz. I assume that it starts to roll off at 100 or 110 Hz. Given that my in wall speakers go down to 80 Hz, I set the cross overs at 100 Hz.
That seems to have helped. It now sounds much richer.
I am beginning to wonder if this has been my problem with the 4520 and Audyssey pro. My old 4310 had the crossover set to 100 Hz based on it's measurements using the stock audyssey mike and built in setup. Prior to the 4310 I had a Yamaha RXV 2700 that also calculated the crossover at 100 Hz.
Thanks very much AustinJerry.
On a separate note. I first calibrated this amp with the stock Denon supplied mike and built in software. When I ran audyssey pro I did not turn off Dynamic Equalization. Should I have done that?

 

No.  During a calibration, Audyssey ignores any settings in the AVR, so it doesn't matter how DEQ was set.  I assume your Pro calibration recommended several potential crossover settings for your speakers, with 100Hz being one of the recommendations.  If it sounds better with 100Hz, that's where I would leave it. 

post #1855 of 7828
Quote:
Originally Posted by nsaldanh View Post

On a separate note. I first calibrated this amp with the stock Denon supplied mike and built in software.

Just to clarify if not already aware .... Audyssey Pro still uses the "built-in" software on the AVR, whether that is XT or XT32, although the Audyssey Pro mic has a +/- 0.5db error rate while the stock mic has a +/-2db error rate.
post #1856 of 7828
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveC56 View Post

Are there any AVR-4520CI owners who use to own Denon's previous flagship AVR-5308CI? I am still sitting on the fence as to upgrade my 5308CI to XT32 or purchase the 4520CI.
I'd appreciate any insight and feedback anyone can provide.
Thank you and Merry Christmas.

I did the upgrade to my 5308ci about a year ago. It still won't get you 11.x, only 9.3 with the choice of Height OR Wide speakers. I don't have the room for Wide speakers, so the processing is what I wanted to keep. The new Denon receivers are a sign of the times and they have cut out a lot of high-end features to get to an economical price-point. My guess is that the power supply in the 4520ci is similar to the 5308ci but now powers 11 channels instead of 7. You'll probably need an external amp with the 4520ci to get the honest 150w/channel the 5308ci provides.

1) You could sell your 5308ci for around $2000 and buy something like a refurbished 4311ci plus an Emotiva 5-channel amp and turn a profit. It depends on whether you want all that processing for non-1080p source material and true 11.x. You'd be going from professional-quality processing that is 5 years old to newer consumer-quality processing.

2) Keep your 5308ci and spend $1000 to upgrade to 9.3. You'll STILL need an external amp for two of those channels. You'll most-likely have superior A/V processing for the next couple of years except for Ultra HD.

I'll be ready for an AVR upgrade when Dolby Atmos enters the home market.
post #1857 of 7828
Quote:
Originally Posted by jevans64 View Post

I did the upgrade to my 5308ci about a year ago. It still won't get you 11.x, only 9.3 with the choice of Height OR Wide speakers. I don't have the room for Wide speakers, so the processing is what I wanted to keep. The new Denon receivers are a sign of the times and they have cut out a lot of high-end features to get to an economical price-point. My guess is that the power supply in the 4520ci is similar to the 5308ci but now powers 11 channels instead of 7. You'll probably need an external amp with the 4520ci to get the honest 150w/channel the 5308ci provides.
1) You could sell your 5308ci for around $2000 and buy something like a refurbished 4311ci plus an Emotiva 5-channel amp and turn a profit. It depends on whether you want all that processing for non-1080p source material and true 11.x. You'd be going from professional-quality processing that is 5 years old to newer consumer-quality processing.
2) Keep your 5308ci and spend $1000 to upgrade to 9.3. You'll STILL need an external amp for two of those channels. You'll most-likely have superior A/V processing for the next couple of years except for Ultra HD.
I'll be ready for an AVR upgrade when Dolby Atmos enters the home market.

That's a few years off...and I'm waiting until there's an XT32 (and Audyssey Pro) capable version, if the Audyssey paradigm is compatible with it.
post #1858 of 7828
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Just to clarify if not already aware .... Audyssey Pro still uses the "built-in" software on the AVR, whether that is XT or XT32, although the Audyssey Pro mic has a +/- 0.5db error rate while the stock mic has a +/-2db error rate.

Thanks. That now makes sense to me. I assume that when I do a calibration Audyssey sets the amp to it's standard settings where no equalization is performed in order to take it's readings.

AustinJerry: I don't remember seeing any options to change the crossover settings in the audyssey pro tool. I just changed them using the AVR's menu. I will check again.
post #1859 of 7828
Quote:
Originally Posted by nsaldanh View Post

Thanks. That now makes sense to me. I assume that when I do a calibration Audyssey sets the amp to it's standard settings where no equalization is performed in order to take it's readings.
AustinJerry: I don't remember seeing any options to change the crossover settings in the audyssey pro tool. I just changed them using the AVR's menu. I will check again.

After you have completed the measurements, saved the measurements, and clicked the "Next" arrow, Pro analyzes the results and then presents a screen that lists the speakers. For each speaker, there is a crossover displayed. The crossover is, however, a drop-down box. If you open the drop-down, there is a list of "recommended" crossover values. You may select any of the recommended crossover values from the list, for each of the speaker pairs. Once you have made your selections, the values will be transferred to the AVR.

You should not adjust crossovers in the AVR after the transfer from Pro. If you want to change crossovers, you should load the Pro software, load the saved measurement file, re-calculate the filters, select new crossover values when presented the selection screen, and save the results to the AVR. Somewhat tedious, but the correct way to do it.
post #1860 of 7828
Quote:
Originally Posted by nsaldanh View Post

I listen either in Multi Channel Stereo or Dolby PL II music. I don't use direct or pure stereo as I know that will disable the sub...
Just to clarify, Direct and Pure Direct will disable the sub (no bass management) for 2ch material. Stereo Mode allows bass management. I believe the default is that it copies the settings that you have for MC but Stereo Mode allows custom settings as well, as jd referred to above.
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