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The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 68

post #2011 of 7708
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

AFAIK this issue only affected the models with ABT video processor (xx10 and xx11). I have never heard this reported on an xx12 or newer model (which now use Analog Devices video chips) so I think it's not an issue anymore.

Thanks, good to know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

I have both the 4311 and the 4520. Both have connected DirecTV DVR's, which are set to output in native mode. Both AVR's are set to up convert to 1080P, with video convert set to On.
I can't provide any insight regarding the issue you are having because I have never experienced it with either AVR.

Very interesting. Are you absolutely sure that when you change from a native 1080i to a native 720p channel that the 4311 is still upscaling to 1080p .... my experience is the upscaler get kicked off.
Edited by apw2607 - 1/4/13 at 6:10pm
post #2012 of 7708
Quote:
Originally Posted by apw2607 View Post

Thanks, good to know.
Very interesting. Are you absolutely sure that when you chance from a native 1080i to a native 720p channel that the 4311 is still upscaling to 1080p .... my experience is the upscaler get kicked off.

As the saying goes, Trust, but Verify......

I went upstairs to my 4311, verified that the DirecTV box is outputting in Native Mode, and went to the video signal information screen in the 4311. I then tuned to Fox, and the 4311 display shows 720p=>1080p. I then tuned to NBC, and the 4311 display shows 1080i=>1080p. I ran the same test, but using the status display on my Sony monitor. For both Fox and NBC, the Sony status displayed 1080p.

So, as I said in my previous note, I am not experiencing the same issue as you are, which tells me that the issue may not be caused by the 4311, but rather something else like an HDMI handshake issue.

As a side note, I notice that the video signal from my upstairs HR21 DVR is displaying as YCbCr 4:4:4 => YCbCr 4:4:4, while the signal from my downstairs HR24, through the 4520, is showing RGB 4:4:4 => RGB 4:4:4. I'm not aware of any setting in the DirecTV DVR's that allows selection of YCbCr Vs. RGB. Strange...

Edit: Just read that the HR24-500 outputs an RGB signal, unlike the other DTV DVR's.
Edited by AustinJerry - 1/4/13 at 6:11pm
post #2013 of 7708
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

SoM, the issue Hugo is reporting has nothing to do with the Pro SW distance "bug".
Hugo, I am seeing exactly what you see. The web interface reports distances of 1.1ft and 2.8ft for subs 1and 2, respectively. The distances in the AVR on-board menu are 13.4ft and 3.8ft, respectively. Clearly this is a bug in the web interface. The distances in the on-board menu are correct with my system. I don't normally use the web interface for configuration, so I had not noticed this discrepancy.
Oops, thnx for the correction, Jerry.
post #2014 of 7708
Quote:
Originally Posted by apw2607 View Post

Hi guys. Denon 4311 owner here and trying to figure out if a problem that exists with Denon's older receivers (including the 4311) has being address with the new 4520. I did search but couldn't find anything.
I know using Cable boxes, Tivos and Direct TV receivers through a AVR can be a challenge, and certainly when I'm using a Tivo, where you are sending the native resolution for a channel (720p or 1080i), to the 4311 from the Tivo causes all sorts of fun and games.
If you attempt to upscale to 1080p, when you change from a 1080i to 720p channel, the scaler gets kicked off, and even if you don't have upscaling turned on, you will still loose the on-screen menu overlay (like volume control), when a channel changes that has a different resolution. If you watching a 1080p/24 amazon vod movie, and then go back to a 1080i tv channel, again the 4311 has a meltdown.
You can overcome many of these issues by fixing the output on the Tivo, but that's not ideal, as the scaling inside a Tivo isn't very good. (720p channels looks soft when they are changed to 1080i, or 1080i channels don't look as good when they are changed to 720p)
Can anyone comment on if you have a Tivo/DirectTV or cable box sending native resolution for a channel out, and you upscale to 1080p on the 4520 , it behaves as you expect.
Thanks.

Question for you: are you connecting the TiVo by HDMI, or by component?

I run my TiVo S3 on component to my Denon 4311 on native resolution, with I/P Scaler and Video Converter both set to On, and I get 1080p output from the 4311 without incident. I've stayed away from HDMI connection between TiVo and either an AVR or display because I used to run into handshake issues with an 8G Pioneer PDP, and I decided that there wasn't any real advantage to HDMI from the TiVo box.
Edited by sdrucker - 1/4/13 at 5:18pm
post #2015 of 7708
Thread Starter 
This issue would never appear with a component connection, it's purely an HDMI handshake issue.
post #2016 of 7708
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

Question for you: are you connecting the TiVo by HDMI, or by component?
I run my TiVo S3 on component to my Denon 4311 on native resolution, with I/P Scaler and Video Converter both set to On, and I get 1080p output from the 4311 without incident. I've stayed away from HDMI connection between TiVo and either an AVR or display because I used to run into handshake issues with an 8G Pioneer PDP, and I decided that there wasn't any real advantage to HDMI from the TiVo box.

HDMI.

There is one benefit. For content from Amazon VOD and Netflix, HDMI supports 1080p/24 and Dolby Digital Plus (on the Tivo S4)
post #2017 of 7708
Quote:
Originally Posted by trallala View Post

Yeah, that's what you would think at first and where the problems start smile.gif Thanks for your suggestion though!
There is no digital out on the 4520. What I would like is in fact a digital out as you suggest + it should be an option to have it always downmixed to stereo out + constant output level (so master volume wouldn't change the output level). That way i could simply mute or lower the master volume and use the headphone amp all night long. edit: most headphone amps (such as mine) doesn't support multi channel input - why I'd like a stereo downmix (to avoid having to select a 2 ch audio output setting such as stereo, when playing 5.1 media).
When "using analog outs" I assume you mean pre out front for L/R speakers? I don't think you can mute the speakers and get output to the headphone amp at the same time using that connection. That's why I'm thinking using another zone pre out could possibly work - as long as you can disable/mute the main zone (speakers) while having zone2/3 output active (preferably down mixed to stereo if mc content is played!). I can't say the manual is cooperating with me..This will take a lot more rum to sort out smile.gif
after a bit more rum, I realize this isn't only a "how to connect a phoneamp" question. It could also be a "I'd like to playback this dvd that only have a 5.1 track on it in zone2, where i have a power amp and stereo speakers. I'd also like to do it while the main zone is off or muted"-question. smile.gif

Sorry about that. Very bad assumption on my part that the digital out in the 4311 had been carried over to the 4520
post #2018 of 7708
I haven't found a solution as to why sometimes the 4520 can't start up... frown.gif
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1430049/the-official-denon-avr-4520ci-thread/1950#post_22776428

But I finally had a chance to sit down and write a review of the Denon and it's partnering equipment in HT....

This is not about the sonic performance in stereo, which is still a work in progress...

http://peteswrite.blogspot.sg/2013/01/denon-avr-4520-review-ht-and-audio.html
Edited by petetherock - 1/5/13 at 10:31am
post #2019 of 7708
Quote:
Originally Posted by petetherock View Post

I haven't found a solution as to why sometimes the 4520 can't start up... frown.gif
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1430049/the-official-denon-avr-4520ci-thread/1950#post_22776428
But I finally had a chance to sit down and write a review of the Denon and it's partnering equipment in HT....
This is not about the sonic performance in stereo, which is still a work in progress...
http://peteswrite.bl...-and-audio.html

Pete, that link doesn't seem to be fully-formed...
post #2020 of 7708
Try this ?
http://peteswrite.blogspot.sg/2013/01/denon-avr-4520-review-ht-and-audio.html?m=1
post #2021 of 7708
Quote:
Originally Posted by petetherock View Post

Something odd happened recently..
My 4520 couldn't start up, and I had to turn it off at the power socket switch, then it works well.
Had to do this thrice over the past couple of weeks.
I haven't changed anything, apart from adjusting the location of my Juice Bar which has the power cables from the Denon, the TV and my MF A5.5 (powering the front two channels).
Any ideas?
Thanks

This has happened to my unit once. I unplugged the unit for about two minutes and then it worked. I did not do any type of microprocessor or network reset.

I am also seeing another problem - for the last two days The Denon doesn't show up as an Airplay device. I have to unplug it and plug it back in for it to work. The Apple TV units show up just fine. Anyone else seeing this issue?

Edit: I do see the denon as an airplay device from a PC that is connected to the router using a cable. I can't see it from any wireless device though - iPhone, iPad, laptop wirelessly connected, etc.

Edit2: After searching on an Apple Forum I found this thread :

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4087880?start=15&tstart=0

A user on that forum suggests enabling IGMP proxy on my router - I happen to have the same router that he has, and that worked. I can now see the Denon from my iPhone.

Odd thing though is that I have not made any changes to my router for a few months and I haven't touched the Denon either. I don't know what changed to cause this problem.
Edited by nsaldanh - 1/5/13 at 6:55am
post #2022 of 7708
post #2023 of 7708
Quote:

That works, Pete, thanks. Nice read, and nice home theater setup. Just curious, how do you have the Hsu MBM connected to the AVR, and where is it placed in the room? Why did you go this route, rather than the more conventional two-sub approach?
post #2024 of 7708
I can't get to the review. All I get is a screen with a scenic view saying Pete's Write and mention of the Denon review but nothing else opens up.
post #2025 of 7708
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterK View Post

I can't get to the review. All I get is a screen with a scenic view saying Pete's Write and mention of the Denon review but nothing else opens up.

There is nothing wrong with the link--it opens fine for me.
post #2026 of 7708
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Try the tips suggested in the post linked below ...
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1334369/the-official-denon-avr-xx12-model-owners-thread/0_100#user_L1

enabling IGMP on my router fixed it. Thanks!
post #2027 of 7708
Great! Thanks for reporting back. smile.gif
post #2028 of 7708
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

That works, Pete, thanks. Nice read, and nice home theater setup. Just curious, how do you have the Hsu MBM connected to the AVR, and where is it placed in the room? Why did you go this route, rather than the more conventional two-sub approach?

Thanks
The 4520 has two outputs so I simply did a two sub setup and let Audyssey do the inital calibration and then tweak the settings. The positions are in the pics in my blog:
http://peteswrite.blogspot.sg/2012/12/my-setup-12-2012.html
I had gone through five subs, from my SVS PB 12+, Velodyne SPL1000 and 800, Rhythmik, to the current pair... essentially there is a null zone where I sit, and I can't really move much, so the best combination was to let the JL Audio F 113 cover the lower bass, whilst getting the MBM to cover mid bass from a position just behind my seat. This proved to be the best position for getting the combination of the thump in the chest and the rumble in my seat.

That's another article in my blog:
http://peteswrite.blogspot.sg/2012/12/getting-that-rumble-in-sofa-and-thump.html

Cheers
post #2029 of 7708
^ Pete, I see the picture now, thanks. I am very familiar with the Hsu MBM, and have always been intrigued with how one might integrate an MBM using MultEQ XT32. While I don't doubt that you have achieved your objectives with this sub combination, I'm still confused about how it all fits together.

The MBM is essentially a "small" sub, designed to handle the frequency range 50-120Hz, approximately, hence it's name. There have been countless discussions about how to calibrate a two-sub configuration, when one sub is significantly more capable than the other sub. The consensus has usually been that it is easier to calibrate two identical subs. So, given the significant differences in capabilities between your two subs, I don't understand how Audyssey calculates the filters, since it calibrates the two subs together once the initial measurement is taken. Wouldn't you be able to achieve the same bass response by using two identical subs (I know there is a cost factor)? I just don't understand what a special-purpose sub like the MBM adds that a "pure" sub couldn't do better.

Please don't take this as a criticism in any way. I'm just trying to understand how the MBM fits in.

BTW, I have a similar issue with bass response at my MLP. I have placed two ULS-15's behind my seating position (about 3 feet away). I gues this could be considered near field. Because all of my subs are identical, I find calibration much more straight-forward.
post #2030 of 7708
If I am using the 4520 to ONLY drive surround backs... Approx how much power is being sent to those two channels?
Same question if I use the AVR to run front heights and surround backs as well? Thanks
post #2031 of 7708
Quote:
Originally Posted by 235 View Post

^^^
Did you get an ETA from AV Science on the 4520? I'm anxiously waiting to hear back from them on the back order.

Would someone mind posting or PM me the AV Science price on the 4520?

Thanks

-Brian
post #2032 of 7708
@ Jerry
I had that same concept before this too. About having similar sized subs.
Then I borrowed a friend's MBM and tried it. The results were very satisfying, and I proceeded to buy one for myself.
The new Sub Eq HT rather than just the XT32 that seems to be able to do some wonders. I chose the MBM because there are many adjustments for using the right crossover. It involved a lot of trial and errors but it worked.

Oh, before I did Audyssey, I did the ARO with the JL Audio F113.
Edited by petetherock - 1/5/13 at 9:03pm
post #2033 of 7708
Thanks for sharing this, Pete, very interesting. I figured it took come creativity on your part! wink.gif
post #2034 of 7708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Schmidt View Post

If I am using the 4520 to ONLY drive surround backs... Approx how much power is being sent to those two channels?
Same question if I use the AVR to run front heights and surround backs as well? Thanks
IMO unless you are driving some very exotic electrostatic speakers or 2 ohm designs, you will find the power to the surrounds / fronts to be more than adequate. I use MA Radius HD and Ushers. The latter are not that efficient but most of the load is taken care of by the sub.
I use all the internal amps, and no issues.
post #2035 of 7708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Schmidt View Post

If I am using the 4520 to ONLY drive surround backs... Approx how much power is being sent to those two channels?
Same question if I use the AVR to run front heights and surround backs as well? Thanks

Not much as neither set of channels require much power. However, as far as how much power is "available" ...... when benchmark tested, Denon AVRs generally test at or just above their marketed rating into 2CH. Haven't seen any numbers on the 4520CI yet, but the 4311CI (140W) tested: 2CH @175W; 5CH @120W – 0.5% THD, so the 4520CI would likely test just above these numbers @150W.
post #2036 of 7708
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Thanks for sharing this, Pete, very interesting. I figured it took come creativity on your part! wink.gif

Posted more info on the process I did to achieve the bass I wanted.. it's basically still a work in progress, especially for stereo playback, but I am otherwise quite satisfied with the HT aspect now, despite the bass null zone..
http://peteswrite.blogspot.sg/2012/12/getting-that-rumble-in-sofa-and-thump.html
post #2037 of 7708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bghead8che View Post

Would someone mind posting or PM me the AV Science price on the 4520?
Thanks
-Brian
Brian,

Call Mike Garrett at AV Science and he will give you a quote over the phone. Do not send email asking for price. His contact is :

Mike Garrett
AV Science Sales 5
585-671-2968
mike@avscience.com

I ordered one last week and am expecting delivery on Tuesday.

HTH
post #2038 of 7708
Hi,

First of all, many thanks for all your returns on the subs distances differences between OB GUI and Internet GUI of the 4520.

Now with all these sorts of "approximations" I really start to become quite "unconfortable' with how Audyssey Sub EQ HT deals with a 2 subs integration... even in Standard, non Pro calibrations... as IMHO we can't be really sure of what's happening inside the 4520. rolleyes.gif

Hugo
post #2039 of 7708
Quote:
Originally Posted by petetherock View Post

Posted more info on the process I did to achieve the bass I wanted.. it's basically still a work in progress, especially for stereo playback, but I am otherwise quite satisfied with the HT aspect now, despite the bass null zone..
http://peteswrite.blogspot.sg/2012/12/getting-that-rumble-in-sofa-and-thump.html

I too went with opposing subs in opposite corners a little offset from a true center corner placement to wipe out the null spot (Crazy huge with both subs upfront in a L/R configuration). I noted you said you adjusted one sub up at the sub control to get the Bass you wanted. It is recommended you do these post Audyssey adjustments via AVR control. Not sub.... Just saying.
post #2040 of 7708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo S View Post

Hi,
First of all, many thanks for all your returns on the subs distances differences between OB GUI and Internet GUI of the 4520.
Now with all these sorts of "approximations" I really start to become quite "unconfortable' with how Audyssey Sub EQ HT deals with a 2 subs integration... even in Standard, non Pro calibrations... as IMHO we can't be really sure of what's happening inside the 4520. rolleyes.gif
Hugo

 

I don't think there is any cause for concern, Hugo.  On my dual sub setup, the distances calculated by Audyssey (both the standard version and the Pro version) are spot on, and the bass sounds very good.  No need to lose confidence!

 

I think there are some anomalies with the web interface that we need to simply overlook for now.

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