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The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 72

post #2131 of 4515
1/12/13 at 11:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonH50 View Post

Sorry for the stoopid question, but a friend told me the Denon AVR trigger outputs do not work on the main zone, just "other" zones (2/3). Then he backtracked and wasn't sure if it was Denon or Onkyo. If I get a 4520 it would be used as a pre-pro driving external amps; will that work directly (i.e. 4520 trigger out driving the amp), or would I have to rig up something to switch on the amps?

Curious, thanks - Don

It's the Onkyo models ... as you can see below the 4520CI features very capable 12v trigger settings .... smile.gif

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post #2132 of 4515
1/12/13 at 11:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stepalex View Post

Guys, I am currently upgrading my home cinema set-up, and one of the things to "go" is my Denon 2808 which I've been using with Dali Ikon 6 (Mk1, Vokal 2 for centre, MA RXW-12 for sub). I've been using this set-up 80% for movies, 20% for music, and been quite happy with the sound. However, as I need more HDMIs + Airplay + will be moving to a larger flat shortly, I have decided to seek a new receiver.

I am leaning towards Denon 4520 at the moment, but 1 thing that bothers me is "isn't it an overkill for my setup? i.e. won't Denon be "limited" by my speaker setup?"

Room size will be roughly 40 square meters, but the "home cinema" zone is only 26 sqm.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Limited? HAH! There is no such word with the 4520! biggrin.gif Boils down to whether you want the improved audio fidelity with the 4520 or simply want the additional "features" of a newer model and a lateral move in audio fidelity with the 3313.
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post #2133 of 4515
1/12/13 at 11:22am
Here's another one. My friend has a 2808ci and all his zones are powered. The sales guy was explaining to me that with the 4520, it isn't powered and that if i utilize the 9.2, i'll need an amplifier for the remaining 3 zones power. Doesn't this defeat the purpose of having a receiver/amp?

Is this true?
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post #2134 of 4515
1/12/13 at 11:26am
The 4520CI is a far more capable AVR than the 2808CI, especially as it is a 9.2 AVR while the 2808CI is only 7.1 and as such the 2808CI can only "power" Zone 2 (stereo) if the main zone is 5.1 (ie. with a 7.1 setup in the main zone, Zones 2 and 3 would require external maps). With only a 5.1 setup in the main zone the 4520CI can power both the Zone 2 and Zone 3 speakers (ie. 5+2+2=9). So the sales guy is correct in that if you use all the on board amps of the 4520CI (any AVR for that matter) to power the main zone speakers, you'll need external amplification for the Zone 2 and/or Zone 3 speakers. The 2808CI does have a set of Front B speaker posts (which share the same amp as the Front A posts) and could be used for another zone/room playing the same exact audio going to the Front A speakers.
Edited by jdsmoothie - 1/12/13 at 11:36am
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post #2135 of 4515
1/12/13 at 11:31am
What??? Doesn't this defeat the purpose of buying such a high-end receiver?? Now I'm going to need to buy 2 more amplifiers for 2 more zones? I'm in awe right now and can't believe I just bought it 30 minutes ago and need to take it back already.
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post #2136 of 4515
1/12/13 at 11:39am
It would help if you could describe the AVR's "purpose" or intended configuration.
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post #2137 of 4515
1/12/13 at 11:48am
My bad. So basically I wired up my house for 4 Zones. Main zone is 7.1 Second Zone is my main floor (kitchen, office, hallway totalling about 11 speakers), Third Zone is my upstairs/bedrooms totalling about 12 speakers and Four Zone my garage and backward totalling 4 speakers. I thought I would be able to hook those all up to my receiver and have them all push simultaneously if necessary (entertaining family etc) or just have the first two zones playing for a complete floor sound.

Turns out .. only the main zone is powered and I need to channel almost 2 complete zones into (9.2 - 7.1) = 2.1. Hope this makes sense.
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post #2138 of 4515
1/12/13 at 11:56am
I wired up the house for 4 zones. zone 1: main zone/7.1 zone 2: main floor (kitchen, office, hallway, washroom, approx 12 speakers) zone 3: bedrooms and washrooms upstairs approx 12 speakers zone 4: garage and backward 4 speakers.
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post #2139 of 4515
1/12/13 at 12:08pm
I can guarantee you your buddy doesn't have the 2808 soley powering anything near as elaborate as you are suggesting .. nor could ANY AVR without external amplification. Depending on your budget, you may be better served considering a Sonos setup along with a main zone AVR.

Okay so here's a quick configuration (if keeping the 4520CI) for your consideration using (3) manually operated impedance matching speaker selectors (although for additional cost, remotely controlled via hand held remote or iphone/android also available) and (2) 2CH external amps ....

Your House/4520 Connections
Main zone - 4520 speaker posts (7.1)
Zone 2 - 4520 Zone 2 pre-outs --> 2CH amp --> speaker selector ---> main floor speakers
Zone 3 - 4520 Zone 3 pre-outs --> 2CH amp --> speaker selector ---> upstairs/bedroom speakers
Zone 4 - 4520 Amp Assign speaker posts set as either Zone 2 or 3 --> speaker selector --> garage speakers
Edited by jdsmoothie - 1/12/13 at 12:31pm
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post #2140 of 4515
1/12/13 at 12:09pm
Thanks jdsmoothie! Seems like I had checked that on the 4311, didn't think it would have changed.
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post #2141 of 4515
1/12/13 at 12:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Limited? HAH! There is no such word with the 4520!

What I mean is this: Is my speaker setup good enough for Denon 4520? Or it will be superfluous for the current configuration?
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post #2142 of 4515
1/12/13 at 12:53pm
Thanks jdsmoothie, looks like you're right. I know that his setup is not as extensive as mine, but my receiver is much more powerful than his and he was able to accomplish his goal. Now im wondering what i did all this wiring for.. looks like I will need one or two of those Sonos. I have to do my research.

thanks again, very much appreciated!

@jdsmoothie - - Your House/4520 Connections
Main zone - 4520 speaker posts (7.1)
Zone 2 - 4520 Zone 2 pre-outs --> 2CH amp --> speaker selector ---> main floor speakers
Zone 3 - 4520 Zone 3 pre-outs --> 2CH amp --> speaker selector ---> upstairs/bedroom speakers
Zone 4 - 4520 Amp Assign speaker posts set as either Zone 2 or 3 --> speaker selector --> garage speakers

When you're detailing the 4th zone, and saying 'amp assign speaker posts', are you implying that I utilize the remaining spots from the 7.1 (difference from 9.1) to power the zone?

You're idea is great!! Unfortunately, it means I have to buy two more amps which sucks for me.

You think I could do this with a cheaper receiver? Maybe a 2 zone and just get a speaker switcher or some other configuration?
Dude, really appreciate your input!! Thanks!!
Edited by xstoicx - 1/12/13 at 1:26pm
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post #2143 of 4515
1/12/13 at 1:09pm
Limited, I think we just deduced that it is limited, havent we? :P
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post #2144 of 4515
1/12/13 at 1:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by xstoicx View Post

Limited, I think we just deduced that it is limited, havent we? :P

So, everything is limited in some way. tongue.gif
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post #2145 of 4515
1/12/13 at 1:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

So, everything is limited in some way. tongue.gif

Smart alec :P:P Or else I guess there would simply be a model 1 of everything and we'd all be happy eh? lol wouldn't that have made life so much easier.
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post #2146 of 4515
1/12/13 at 2:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stepalex View Post


What I mean is this: Is my speaker setup good enough for Denon 4520? Or it will be superfluous for the current configuration?

There is no real answer to your question.  The 4520 will make your speakers sound as good as they can sound.  Would the 4520 sound better if you had better speakers?  Of course.  Are you "wasting money" buying the 4520?  Only you can be the judge. 

 

However, a good rule of thumb is that if your budget is limited, you will always get better quality sound if you invest in better speakers with a modest receiver than you would with modest speakers and a really good receiver.  Spend your money wisely.

 

Edit:  To give you an idea how important speakers are, consider how I spent my home theater budget:

 

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post #2147 of 4515
1/12/13 at 2:31pm
Can you not change crossover settings after audessey setup and have them saved? I setup the unit with multi meter and then ran audessey. It changed my crossover settings making my L/R/C (small speakers) crossover at 40, and surrounds at 60. The sub was changed to 120. I'd prefer 80 across the board, but every time I turn the unit and back on it resets to the audessey setting. Is this normal? If it is audessey is change the frequency beyond what my speakers are rated for.
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post #2148 of 4515
1/12/13 at 3:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgwalsh View Post

Can you not change crossover settings after audessey setup and have them saved? I setup the unit with multi meter and then ran audessey. It changed my crossover settings making my L/R/C (small speakers) crossover at 40, and surrounds at 60. The sub was changed to 120. I'd prefer 80 across the board, but every time I turn the unit and back on it resets to the audessey setting. Is this normal? If it is audessey is change the frequency beyond what my speakers are rated for.

 

When you change crossover values, the changes "stick".  Where are you looking that makes you think the values are reverting to the previous ones? 

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post #2149 of 4515
1/12/13 at 4:30pm
I'm setting up my 4520 now and have a quick question. I've searched here and the owners manual but can't seem to the answer I need.

My speakers are 4 ohm. Do I need to set the AVR to 4 ohm?
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post #2150 of 4515
1/12/13 at 4:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnifeGuy View Post

I'm setting up my 4520 now and have a quick question. I've searched here and the owners manual but can't seem to the answer I need.

My speakers are 4 ohm. Do I need to set the AVR to 4 ohm?

It's in the menu, speaker or setup menu..
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post #2151 of 4515
1/12/13 at 4:47pm
Had a strange dream last night.... my system was suspended on a cloud, and what I thought was the 4520, turned out to be a 3010.... hmmm any readers of dreams wink.gif
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post #2152 of 4515
1/12/13 at 5:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by petetherock View Post

It's in the menu, speaker or setup menu..

Wow I feel like an idiot. Read your post then found it in about 3 seconds. I can't believe I missed it when it is so obvious.
Thanks for the help
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post #2153 of 4515
1/13/13 at 4:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by petetherock View Post

Had a strange dream last night.... my system was suspended on a cloud, and what I thought was the 4520, turned out to be a 3010.... hmmm any readers of dreams wink.gif
Happens to be one of my many areas of expertise. wink.gif Just lie back on the couch and say whatever comes into your mind, Pete. Now, what is a 3010 and what comes to mind about it?biggrin.gif
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post #2154 of 4515
1/13/13 at 6:09am
"Yamaha envy?" or is it a Denon? Just kidding with a Freudian twist. I've been having AV dreams lately, I believe because of the frustration with various failures first with my Onkyo then with a Denon.
Edited by Theresa - 1/13/13 at 6:28am
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post #2155 of 4515
1/13/13 at 6:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnifeGuy View Post

I'm setting up my 4520 now and have a quick question. I've searched here and the owners manual but can't seem to the answer I need.

My speakers are 4 ohm. Do I need to set the AVR to 4 ohm?

No. You are actually much better served leaving the impedance setting at the factory default of 8-ohm as setting it to 4-ohm simply limits the current flow. The AVR will shut down in protection mode if necessary either way although can more than likely very easily handle your 4-ohm speakers.
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post #2156 of 4515
1/13/13 at 6:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgwalsh View Post

Can you not change crossover settings after audessey setup and have them saved? I setup the unit with multi meter and then ran audessey. It changed my crossover settings making my L/R/C (small speakers) crossover at 40, and surrounds at 60. The sub was changed to 120. I'd prefer 80 across the board, but every time I turn the unit and back on it resets to the audessey setting. Is this normal? If it is audessey is change the frequency beyond what my speakers are rated for.


First note that whatever settings you make in advance of running Audyssey are ignored by Audyssey. After running Audyssey, the resulting settings can be accessed via the Setup -- Speakers - Audyssey Setup - Check Results menu and are saved until written over by a newer Audyssey run so you can more easily return to them if desired after making your own manual changes. Any manual changes you make (eg. LARGE/SMALL, crossover, level) via the Manual Setup menu become the "active" settings used by the AVR, noting that these changes will NOT impact the Audyssey filters. Regardless of what your speakers may be spec'd for on paper by the mfr, Audyssey will measure how they react in your home environment which may be different. Although it's okay to raise crossover levels higher, you don't want to lower them as doing so will leave a "gap" in the EQ range. Note also that the factory default for the LPF for LFE (what you are referring to as the sub crossover) only applies to the LFE signal (ie. .1 in DD/DTS 5.1/7.1) is 120Hz and in most cases should not be changed otherwise the full LFE signal (which goes to 120Hz) will not pass through to the sub (eg. if set to 80Hz).

For more information on Audyssey, review the Audyssey 101/FAQ Guidle linked in my sig as it includes a compilation of the most asked questions in the Official Audyssey thread.
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post #2157 of 4515
1/13/13 at 7:19am
^ I agree with everything you say, JD, but the OP seems to think the settings are not sticking. I think we need to hear back from him regarding what he is observing.
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post #2158 of 4515
1/13/13 at 3:12pm
Agreed, although more often then not this issue is usually the result of not understanding the difference between the Auto Setup and Manual Setup settings.
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post #2159 of 4515
1/13/13 at 3:49pm
Looks like I'm wiring my 3 zones using Front Wide, Front Height and Rear Surround. I can wire up my rear surround into my Surround seeing as how 98% of the Blu rays i've seen don't even have 7.1 encoded and all the blu rays I own are 5.1 anyway!

Thanks for all the help guys!!
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post #2160 of 4515
1/13/13 at 6:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

I find myself confused on occasion with regards to what mode my 4520 is in.  This is because of two changes:  first, the elimination of the blue A-DSX light, and second, the removal of the A-DSX button on the remote.  Sorry in advance, Batpig, if you consider this another one of my nitpics, but try to understand my frustration.  Here are the 4520 cinema modes, selected by holding down the "Movie" key on the remote:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1000

 

 

 

 

Note that modes 6 through 14 all have the same indication on the front panel display, i.e. "Audyssey DSX", IOW the front display no longer provides enough information to determine the current mode.  The remote now has a handy "Info" button.  When pressing it in modes 6 through 14, it only provides partial information, specifically it doesn't say whether Heights, Wides, or both Heights and Wides have been selected.  On previous models, depressing the DSX button on the remote resulted in a screen display clarifying which speakers were being used.

 

So, how do you know what DSX speakers are in use?  You have to press and hold the "Movie" button, which also causes a momentary drop-out of the audio.  Does anyone else find this somewhat cumbersome and disconcerting? 

 

And what is the mode “Dolby Digital + PLIIx Cinema”?  And why does the mode “PLIIx Cinema A-DSX” show when the Info button is pressed as “Dolby Digital + PLIIx Cinema + A-DSX”?  How can there be a mode with both Dolby Digital and PLIIx at the same time?

 

Maybe I just don’t get it….



Edit: At least for those of using a programmable remote, it is easy to add the old DSX button to display which DSX mode the receiver is in.

AustinJerry - have you updated this?
Can you post the excel file here? I'd like to use that for a base comparison list for the extended surround formats.
btw, where is DTS Neo:X?
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