AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 74

post #2191 of 4523
1/15/13 at 10:30am
Thread Starter 
I think SoM is right on the money. Room acoustics is just too difficult and inaccessible of a topic for most hobbyists. It's complicated, it's time consuming to do it right, and as SoM notes (unlike AVR's or speakers) there is no off-the-shelf solution that you can give someone and say, "here, buy this and it will sound good".

In addition to the steep learning curve, there is also the issue that most people do not have dedicated rooms where they can go buck wild with treatments. The vast majority of "home theaters" are really somebody's living room, where they have to contend with the constraints of WAF, aesthetics, furniture, etc. Remember that the folks on this thread buying a $2k+ receiver are a very small, niche subset of the A/V populace. Most people's jaws would drop at the dollar figures being thrown around here, myself included.

If you are spending that much moolah and have the luxury of being able to install good treatments, and the wherewithal to learn how to understand and measure acoustics, then by all means it should be a path you pursue; as you note it's hard to match the bang for the buck of improving room acoustics. Lots of people just throw more and more money at nicer speakers and electronics without addressing this.
Reply
Reply

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #2192 of 4523
1/15/13 at 11:39am
^^^ "..for most hobbyists." -- And most dealers!

Doing some basic room treatment of first reflections and adding a few corner bass traps to help the mid-bass is not all that difficult, but I agree dealers don't generally want to spend wall space on treatments nor obtain even minimal training on the subject. Easier to learn about the feature set of the latest AVRs... Which is sad because next year's acoustic advice will be the same, while a new feature set will be learned.
Reply
Reply
post #2193 of 4523
1/15/13 at 11:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

What about the acoustic analysis, measurements, deciding your small room acoustic model, and then applying appropriate acoustic treatments for sound quality?

I'm about $1k into the acoustics side, all DIY.

So many times in the sound quality discussions people never mention acoustic treatments, why?


Sent from my 32GB iPhone4 using Tapatalk

 

I included the cost of room treatments in my original posting showing how I spend my audio dollar. .I didn't include the actual dollar amounts, but I have spent almost $2K on commercially-available treatments from vendors like RealTraps, GIK, and ATS Acoustics.

 

I have read your home theater thread, and I found your description of the DIY room treatments fascinating. 

Reply
Reply
post #2194 of 4523
1/15/13 at 4:43pm
FWIWFM, my room is heavily treated (bad room) and I have ~$2,500 in commercial treatments (mostly kit panels); total system cost is probably ~$25,000.
Reply
Reply
post #2195 of 4523
1/16/13 at 7:01am
Hello All.

I have been watching this thread a bit but this is my first post. Appreciate what you have shared already.

I have been looking at making and investment in some:
- Whole house sound (4 zones current/ 5 planned (outside) )
- Video Distribution 3 - 4 Zones ideal.

First here is what I have now:
First Floor Closet:
- Connection point for 4 zones of audio (Each Zone is 2 channels) Copper speaker wire only to sound knobs on the wall. No Cat5 at the knob.
- Connection point to downstairs cabinet via 4 lines of cat 7 wiring. (I have connections to send HDMI over this)
- Conenction to 1 TV via HDMI (Bedroom)
- COnenction to one TV to small bathroom TV via Coax.
(Both these tvs share the same cable box)

Basement Cabinet
- HDMI connections to two TVs in seperate rooms. The big screen where we watch movies is one of these tvs.
- Termination points for Cat 7 cable from above.



I am thinking this Denon 4520 could very well help me do the following. Confirmation would be much appreciated:
a. Push audio to all 4 audio zones idependently
b. Push 1080 P video over HDMI to atleast 3 zones (sharing one source for 2 of those.
c. Do a and b at the same time?

Ideally I am seeing this as somethign I can use to manage the AV experience in the whole house via some remotes and IOS devices. Am I expectiong too much? Any suggestions welcome?.

All the best-

Sitdown






So a set of questions knowing that many of you already have this one comple
Reply
Reply
post #2196 of 4523
1/16/13 at 7:06am
Hey:

let's beat up the other zone audio topic again for a second...

Although this may actually be a plus in the 4520's corner.

Although I can play optical and coax inputs to the zones on my 4311 (and overlay them onto other HDMI inputs and send out to the zones- which I would dearly miss) one drawback was the inescapable delay between the main room and the zones...not sure if this was audyssey related or not (don't think it was as I believe it still exists with it "OFF"), but it was annoying, nonetheless.

Can anyone speak to whether this delay is alleviated with the "ALL ZONE MULTISTEREO" function?

thanks!

James
Edited by mastermaybe - 1/16/13 at 7:40am
Reply
Reply
post #2197 of 4523
1/16/13 at 9:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sitdown View Post

Hello All.

I have been watching this thread a bit but this is my first post. Appreciate what you have shared already.

I have been looking at making and investment in some:
- Whole house sound (4 zones current/ 5 planned (outside) )
- Video Distribution 3 - 4 Zones ideal.

First here is what I have now:
First Floor Closet:
- Connection point for 4 zones of audio (Each Zone is 2 channels) Copper speaker wire only to sound knobs on the wall. No Cat5 at the knob.
- Connection point to downstairs cabinet via 4 lines of cat 7 wiring. (I have connections to send HDMI over this)
- Conenction to 1 TV via HDMI (Bedroom)
- COnenction to one TV to small bathroom TV via Coax.
(Both these tvs share the same cable box)

Basement Cabinet
- HDMI connections to two TVs in seperate rooms. The big screen where we watch movies is one of these tvs.
- Termination points for Cat 7 cable from above.



I am thinking this Denon 4520 could very well help me do the following. Confirmation would be much appreciated:
a. Push audio to all 4 audio zones idependently
b. Push 1080 P video over HDMI to atleast 3 zones (sharing one source for 2 of those.
c. Do a and b at the same time?

Ideally I am seeing this as somethign I can use to manage the AV experience in the whole house via some remotes and IOS devices. Am I expectiong too much? Any suggestions welcome?.

All the best-

Sitdown






So a set of questions knowing that many of you already have this one comple

You are aware that only the main zoned is powered right? And that you'll need additional amps to push all of your zones except your main zone? After that.. sounds like you got a great plan!

I wired up my place almost the same as yours!
Reply
Reply
post #2198 of 4523
1/16/13 at 10:44am
Thanks Xstoicx,

I was under the impression that I could use the Denon 4520 to power all 4 audio zones simulanteously by assigning the speaker out conenctions across 4 zones to power 2 channel sound to each zone? Is that not the case?

Sounds like you were trying to address a similar problem, how did you do it?

Appreciated,
sitdown
Reply
Reply
post #2199 of 4523
1/16/13 at 10:48am
Thread Starter 
Well there are only 9 amps in the receiver, so if you start assigning amps to other zones you are cutting down what can happen in main zone. Are you just looking for stereo distribution or do you also want a full 5.1+ setup in the main zone?

Also be aware that "Zone 4" is an HDMI matrix output only, there is no speaker output associated with that zone. The 4520 has a main zone, then a matrix HDMI output (Zone 4), and then Zones 2 and 3 can output stereo audio (via pre-out or speaker out) along with an associated component video output (which BTW cannot be downconverted from HDMI inputs).
Reply
Reply
post #2200 of 4523
1/16/13 at 1:12pm
Batpig,

Thank you.
Thaat helps alot.

The main problem I was looking to address was sound distribution to 4 zones independent that could play as many different sources as possible without needing cat5 connections (which are nonexistent) at each zone.
I saw this and thought wow... not only could i do that but I could also push video across to a couple of tvs.
I sort of assumed I would need to purchase a seperate 51 amp to power my main HT set up.

So is this even recommended at all for 4 zone sound distribution? What would you guys do?

It seems to me that with my wiring in place I could have sound and video distribution of the same or different sources to 4 audio zones and 2 video/ audio zones if I wanted to. Wondering what would help me do that?

All the best.
-sitdown
Reply
Reply
post #2201 of 4523
1/16/13 at 6:12pm
So just to get something straight. When I was watching a movie off of VUDU on my OPPO 103 player, in which I chose the SD 480i version (since this movie isn't all about special effects and sound and it's cheaper that way) and I look under the INFO menu on the 4520 under the VIDEO/HDMI SIGNAL INFO, and it says 1080p......then is that the signal the AVR is getting upconverted from the OPPO103, or is that the upconversion being performed by the 4520 AVR itself? BTW, my Panny Plasma also indicated 1080p when I checked it.
Reply
Reply
post #2202 of 4523
1/16/13 at 8:52pm
Hi everyone, I just got the bad news my denon 3308 is getting junked by geek squad. While waiting for the supposed repair I've been using the Denon 2312 which is just not very full or rich sounding as my 3308 was. Can anyone tell me if the the 4520 would really be my only option for a high quality rich sounding receiver or is there another option I should consider at this price point or less. I am sure the difference I hear between the 2312 and 3808 can't just come down to wattage and AL24 or maybe it can I really don't know. All I know is that the 3808 is miles ahead of the 2312 on my setup. I would love some feedback if anyone can help me out.
Reply
Reply
post #2203 of 4523
1/17/13 at 2:19am
I'm sure it was very similar to my 3312 I just replaced with a 4520. The sounds is in a different league, INMO. Very happy with the sound and performance from my 4520, drives my 4ohm speakers with ease. The 3312 strained very hard, but was also not rated to run them either.
Reply
Reply
post #2204 of 4523
1/17/13 at 2:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cvetan1 View Post

I'm sure it was very similar to my 3312 I just replaced with a 4520. The sounds is in a different league, INMO. Very happy with the sound and performance from my 4520, drives my 4ohm speakers with ease. The 3312 strained very hard, but was also not rated to run them either.

And what speaker setup are you using it for?
Reply
Reply
post #2205 of 4523
1/17/13 at 3:39am
Currently, Polk LSi's on loaner.
Reply
Reply
post #2206 of 4523
1/17/13 at 9:20am
I don't think the 3312 really compares to the 3308 since the 3308 was made in Japan like the 4520 and there seems to be a difference between China Denons and Japan Denons to me. But that being said my only option seems to be 4520 if there is that much difference between the 3312 and the 4520. When I got the 3308 I tested it on my setup after auditioning 4 other receivers in my room, and denon blew them all away. I hate to go through that again if the 4520 doesn't have real competition. Although part of me wants to check out the Marantz stuff but it seems like Denon's kid brother now sort of copying features. The two companies are supposed to be completely separate but in the same house anyone have experience with these.

Also I have a pretty typical 5.1/7.1 setup right now with very large fronts that I run in stereo in conjunction with the sub when listening to music. Does anyone know if this setup works with 4520 or do I need another set of front speakers to listen to stereo music when I get the 4520??
Reply
Reply
post #2207 of 4523
1/17/13 at 10:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourbeef View Post

So just to get something straight. When I was watching a movie off of VUDU on my OPPO 103 player, in which I chose the SD 480i version (since this movie isn't all about special effects and sound and it's cheaper that way) and I look under the INFO menu on the 4520 under the VIDEO/HDMI SIGNAL INFO, and it says 1080p......then is that the signal the AVR is getting upconverted from the OPPO103, or is that the upconversion being performed by the 4520 AVR itself? BTW, my Panny Plasma also indicated 1080p when I checked it.

If your OPPO output is set to auto it will up convert to your TV/Projector capability. The 4520ci does the same if OPPO was manually set to lower resolution.

I purchased an OPPO-103 recently to replace my Sony PS3 (3D) and my old Denon DVD-5900 Universal-SACD/DVD. Apart from its superior video processor, I discovered many compatibility issues with the OPPO including lip sync problem. So I bought the 6.5Amp. Denon-AVR5420ci to replace my 9 year old toroidal 12Amp transformer THX Ultra Denon AVR-5803 just for its HDMI/ lip-sync correction. I must admit I love all the new Denon bells and whistles and its amp/preamp versatility, but I’m very disappointed with its chassis 60Hz humming and the hiss noise and the audio leak from the tuner and the I-Radio when they’re active while in DVD or Blu Ray mode in idle at high volume setting.
Needless to say, besides my new Epson 3020 3D projector, all my recent investments in my home theater lately have been very disappointing. Luckily I kept my good old Yamaha MX-1 amp for the main hungry speakers (Energy Veritas 7.1 system + 18” servo 1,250W Velodyne sub.) I’m tempted now to go back to my old set up…
Any comment or suggestion anyone?
Cheers…
Reply
Reply
post #2208 of 4523
1/17/13 at 11:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by avatar9 View Post

I don't think the 3312 really compares to the 3308 since the 3308 was made in Japan like the 4520 and there seems to be a difference between China Denons and Japan Denons to me. But that being said my only option seems to be 4520 if there is that much difference between the 3312 and the 4520. When I got the 3308 I tested it on my setup after auditioning 4 other receivers in my room, and denon blew them all away. I hate to go through that again if the 4520 doesn't have real competition. Although part of me wants to check out the Marantz stuff but it seems like Denon's kid brother now sort of copying features. The two companies are supposed to be completely separate but in the same house anyone have experience with these.

Also I have a pretty typical 5.1/7.1 setup right now with very large fronts that I run in stereo in conjunction with the sub when listening to music. Does anyone know if this setup works with 4520 or do I need another set of front speakers to listen to stereo music when I get the 4520??

I was not comparing the 3312 to the 3308. I was comparing it to the 2312 that you were complaining about. What part didn't you understand??
Reply
Reply
post #2209 of 4523
1/17/13 at 12:57pm
Folks that own Denon AVR-4520ci;
I just want to share this with you and compare notes.
The chassis humming noise I’m experiencing is amplified by the heat shield plate located vertically between the transformer and the rest of the circuit boards in the middle of the chassis. If you’re having that problem, make sure nothing is touching or leaning against the plate including cables running by it.
I still can hear and feel the humming when I put my ear against the receiver something I never experienced with my old AVR-5803. Can anyone tell me if you can hear that 60Hz humming in your receiver?
Thanks.
Edited by Joe6P - 1/17/13 at 1:55pm
Reply
Reply
post #2210 of 4523
1/17/13 at 1:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cvetan1 View Post

I'm sure it was very similar to my 3312 I just replaced with a 4520. The sounds is in a different league, INMO. Very happy with the sound and performance from my 4520, drives my 4ohm speakers with ease. The 3312 strained very hard, but was also not rated to run them either.

Seemed like you were comparing it to the 3312 to me. But it won't matter anyway if either one of these can't stand up to the 4520 like you said.

Also can you use your 5.1/7.1 setup to play stereo music or do you really need a separate pair of stereo speakers running on the B channel to do this job??
Reply
Reply
post #2211 of 4523
1/17/13 at 1:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe6P View Post

Folks that own Denon AVR-4520ci;
I just want to share this with you and compare notes.
The chassis humming noise I’m experiencing is amplified by the heat shield plate located vertically between the transformer and the rest of the circuit boards in the middle of the chassis. If you’re having that problem, make sure nothing is touching or leaning against the plate including cables running by it.
I still can hear and feel the humming when I put my ear against the receiver something I never experienced with my old AVR-5803. Can anyone tell be if you can hear that 60Hz humming in your receiver?
Thanks.

Could be the transformer itself...
Reply
Reply
post #2212 of 4523
1/17/13 at 1:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe6P View Post

Folks that own Denon AVR-4520ci;
I just want to share this with you and compare notes.
The chassis humming noise I’m experiencing is amplified by the heat shield plate located vertically between the transformer and the rest of the circuit boards in the middle of the chassis. If you’re having that problem, make sure nothing is touching or leaning against the plate including cables running by it.
I still can hear and feel the humming when I put my ear against the receiver something I never experienced with my old AVR-5803. Can anyone tell be if you can hear that 60Hz humming in your receiver?
Thanks.

I just noticed this humming a few days ago and I've been going through all of my setup to see if the problem was on my end. It didn't seem to be so I disconnected everything and even tried different outlets in other rooms. I'ts still there.

So is this normal with this unit ? I can actually hear this hum from 2 feet away !

I talked to Mike at AVS earlier today and he said he'd get back to me with more info.
Reply
Reply
post #2213 of 4523
1/17/13 at 1:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Dolittle View Post

I just noticed this humming a few days ago and I've been going through all of my setup to see if the problem was on my end. It didn't seem to be so I disconnected everything and even tried different outlets in other rooms. I'ts still there.

So is this normal with this unit ? I can actually hear this hum from 2 feet away !

I talked to Mike at AVS earlier today and he said he'd get back to me with more info.

Mine sounded exactly as bad. I was ready to return it after I had spoken with Denon rep who thought it was a defect. I didn’t want to exchange it with another one that might have the same or other problems so I opened the cover and found out I could stop the audible humming simply by touching the heat shield plate. I curved it a little bit and cleared the cables away from it. The plate was acting like a megaphone amplifying the transformer internal 60Hz humming. Nothing seem to be loose in and around the transformer that’s why I like to know if other users can feel the humming by leaning their ear against the unit. If that’s the case then I understand why I paid twice for my 9 year old AVR-5803 that came with a flawless toroidal transformer that made absolutely no hum or hiss not even at max volume.
Reply
Reply
post #2214 of 4523
1/17/13 at 3:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Dolittle View Post

I just noticed this humming a few days ago and I've been going through all of my setup to see if the problem was on my end. It didn't seem to be so I disconnected everything and even tried different outlets in other rooms. I'ts still there.

So is this normal with this unit ? I can actually hear this hum from 2 feet away !

I talked to Mike at AVS earlier today and he said he'd get back to me with more info.

I have had my unit for about a month and no hum at all.
Reply
Reply
post #2215 of 4523
1/17/13 at 3:40pm
I've had my Denon for a few weeks and no humming with any source where previously I had humming with my Outlaw 990 and Adcom 7707. I do have a panamax conditioner.
Reply
Reply
post #2216 of 4523
1/17/13 at 4:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by avatar9 View Post

... my only option seems to be 4520 if there is that much difference between the 3312 and the 4520. When I got the 3308 I tested it on my setup after auditioning 4 other receivers in my room, and denon blew them all away. I hate to go through that again if the 4520 doesn't have real competition. Although part of me wants to check out the Marantz stuff but it seems like Denon's kid brother now sort of copying features. The two companies are supposed to be completely separate but in the same house anyone have experience with these.

Also I have a pretty typical 5.1/7.1 setup right now with very large fronts that I run in stereo in conjunction with the sub when listening to music. Does anyone know if this setup works with 4520 or do I need another set of front speakers to listen to stereo music when I get the 4520??
I'm not familiar with the 3308, I had a 2809 and then the 4310, which was better. Then I got a 4311, a really nice step up from that. The biggest difference was MultEQXT32 which provides a very nice SQ improvement.

The alternative to the 4520 is the less expensive 4311, which has equal SQ but doesn't have all the latest features. An Onkyo AVR with MultEQXT32 would be another option. I don't think there's an AVR in the Marantz line with XT32 right now.

You can enjoy nice Stereo SQ without extra stereo speakers. These Denons integrated your sub fully with your fronts and apply the XT32 DSPRC. In fact, good quality, capable mains with timbre-matched CC and surrounds is exactly what I recommend for someone like yourself.
Reply
Reply
post #2217 of 4523
1/17/13 at 5:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourbeef View Post

My 4520 told me there was a firmware update to make. Afterwards the firmware number is showing as 3325-0792-1453...I don't see this number on the page 1 firmware section of this thread. Just sayin'

Any other owners receive a firmware update notice yesterday or today after having already installed the recent Pandora login update?
Reply
Reply
post #2218 of 4523
1/17/13 at 5:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Any other owners receive a firmware update notice yesterday or today after having already installed the recent Pandora login update?

I just did a Check for Update, and the return was "Latest".
Reply
Reply
post #2219 of 4523
1/17/13 at 5:23pm
Roger that ... thanks AJ. smile.gif

I always like to get confirmation from at least a few owners before I start asking Denon for the changelog information.
Reply
Reply
post #2220 of 4523
1/17/13 at 5:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

@flint350 -

Rather than taping the IR flasher over the front panel display, you may want to consider using the Remote Control IN jack (see image below) on the back panel.



Wait... I like this solution much better instead of using the stick on IR emitters. Do you know if this will also work on older models. I have an AVR-4308ci and would love to get rid of those annoying IR stick on emitters.
Reply
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Gear mentioned in this thread:

AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread