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The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 79

post #2341 of 7693
Quote:
Originally Posted by bootman_head_fi View Post

Is obsolescent real or a good marketing program?
Think about a AVR with HDMI 1.2 switching.
Tell me what is obsolete about it (RC aside) between it and a modern AVR with HDMI 1.4?

3D? OK if you bought into the whole 3D marketing gimmick I guess so.
HD audio decoding?
EVERY bluray player since the PS3 can decode HD audio and pass it as PCM which EVERY AVR with HDMI 1.2 can handle.
No loss in SQ if done this way. Or if you have 7.1 analog in, you can go that route if the player has 7.1 analog out.

Sources do get obsolete much more quickly than AVRs should, but you better believe the OEMs would want us to think otherwise. wink.gif
In fact I'll bet older top end AVRs with 1.2 can sound better than modern ones (RC aside) just by the better build quality of components used vs today.

Something to think about. wink.gif

I would almost totally agree with you but everyone on this forum would be unhappy with the suggestion that these older denon can hold a candle to the new one. I am still waiting to unbox my unit after watching Best Buy guy drop the hand truck from it's leaning position only to watch my receiver hit the ground with some pretty good force on its side the Best buy guy said its fine of course but I am not sure if I want to make them get me a new unit first. Anyone have experience with people dropping your receivers? Any Best Buy shoppers out there?
post #2342 of 7693
Quote:
Originally Posted by avatar9 View Post

I would almost totally agree with you but everyone on this forum would be unhappy with the suggestion that these older denon can hold a candle to the new one. I am still waiting to unbox my unit after watching Best Buy guy drop the hand truck from it's leaning position only to watch my receiver hit the ground with some pretty good force on its side the Best buy guy said its fine of course but I am not sure if I want to make them get me a new unit first. Anyone have experience with people dropping your receivers? Any Best Buy shoppers out there?

I'm sure, but when was the last time Denon made something as beefy as say the AVR-5805?
Are you telling those sound bad fed by the analog outs of an Oppo 105?
what are you really missing that can't be done by a $50 roku?

All I'm saying is that we really need to think about what is an important upgrade, that's all. Not really knocking the 4520.
post #2343 of 7693
This is so true but out of my league and the 5805 has a newer model I believe, the last made was the 5808 which you can actually still buy it at denon ...but if you do the math this thing is like $6k so you would need to spend $12-18k on speakers for that thing and you would spend your time on different forum for sure. They still have upgrades available and it is still a step up from the 4520 but who knows denon may replace even the 5808 soon enough.
post #2344 of 7693
Quote:
Originally Posted by avatar9 View Post

This is so true but out of my league and the 5805 has a newer model I believe, the last made was the 5808 which you can actually still buy it at denon ...but if you do the math this thing is like $6k so you would need to spend $12-18k on speakers for that thing and you would spend your time on different forum for sure. They still have upgrades available and it is still a step up from the 4520 but who knows denon may replace even the 5808 soon enough.

But my point is about the constant upgrades.
and you can pick up a gently used one for about $1500. Much cheaper than $6k. smile.gif
post #2345 of 7693
Totally agree I was actually going to keep my 3808 until it just became to difficult to work with new equipment probably 6 more years. I like to buy quality products and use them as long as possible myself. I do agree also that so much of this stuff is marketing, every once in a while something really new and great slips in there and forces you to change. I don't think it happens frequently though, just a lot of bs marketing gimmicks and planned obsolescence is the norm now.
post #2346 of 7693
Quote:
Originally Posted by avatar9 View Post

This is so true but out of my league and the 5805 has a newer model I believe, the last made was the 5808 which you can actually still buy it at denon ...but if you do the math this thing is like $6k so you would need to spend $12-18k on speakers for that thing and you would spend your time on different forum for sure. They still have upgrades available and it is still a step up from the 4520 but who knows denon may replace even the 5808 soon enough.

Both the 5308CI and the AVP have been discontinued with AFAIK very limited upgrade kits still available. Going forward the 4520CI series will be Denon's new flagship line.
post #2347 of 7693
Quote:
Originally Posted by avatar9 View Post

I would almost totally agree with you but everyone on this forum would be unhappy with the suggestion that these older denon can hold a candle to the new one. I am still waiting to unbox my unit after watching Best Buy guy drop the hand truck from it's leaning position only to watch my receiver hit the ground with some pretty good force on its side the Best buy guy said its fine of course but I am not sure if I want to make them get me a new unit first. Anyone have experience with people dropping your receivers? Any Best Buy shoppers out there?

I'm certain UPS/FedEx drops these boxes all the time. That's why when you buy from an internet direct dealer they double box them.
post #2348 of 7693
Quote:
Originally Posted by bootman_head_fi View Post

I'm sure, but when was the last time Denon made something as beefy as say the AVR-5805?
Are you telling those sound bad fed by the analog outs of an Oppo 105?
what are you really missing that can't be done by a $50 roku
Audyssey

All I'm saying is that we really need to think about what is an important upgrade, that's all. Not really knocking the 4520
Agreed
For me, it's largely been the improvements in DSP, mostly Audyssey, that have driven my upgrades. There was MultEQ->MultEQXT, then the DEQ/DVol feature. I loved my 2809 and would've kept it for years more. But when upgrading to better speakers, I came across a BB clearance on a 4310. I wasn't sure I even wanted it but at least had to take it home for a try. With that demo model I got Audyssey DSX and Networking features for some crazy price under $800 so I kept it. Then XT32 came along and when I got the newer 4311, the 4310 fetched a good price used, so that last upgrade cost me about $400. I knew I'd be keeping the 4311 for awhile so I took the occasion to invest in an Audyssey Pro license for it and the Pro kit, which improved the SQ even further.

So for me the overall cost of the AVR upgrades themselves has not been that big, especially compared to the $ I've spent on speakers and subs. And with each, I get a few other new features and a new warranty.
post #2349 of 7693
Quote:
Originally Posted by bootman_head_fi View Post

I'm sure, but when was the last time Denon made something as beefy as say the AVR-5805?
Are you telling those sound bad fed by the analog outs of an Oppo 105?
what are you really missing that can't be done by a $50 roku?

All I'm saying is that we really need to think about what is an important upgrade, that's all. Not really knocking the 4520.


Recently my friend and I were checking out new AVRs and I am getting close to pulling the trigger on the 4520 after refusing to pay $1100 more for the rebranded 4520...I mean Marantz 8801. My friend has a Denon 5803 and I have a Pioneer Elite; both units are over 10 years old. It's funny to see how AVRs feel less substantial these days compared to the old analog beasts of the past (4520 weighs 36lbs versus my 41lbs Elite). I am fully resolved to going to an 11.2 system with XT32. My friend asked if he would notice a SQ improvement over his 5803 and Oppo 95 combo. I instinctively answered "probably not, if anything you might be disappointed with the analog performance". Given that my friend prefers analog audio in all his playback, I would wager his old flagship 5803 would best the Denon flagship of today.

It was interesting when we were talking about the demise of the $5,000+ receiver era. I explained that ultimately there is no need for the $5,000 AVR line anymore since the introduction of changing digital and HDMI specs. It also makes more sense when you can buy separates and just switch out your processor to save money, and get better headroom performance than anything an integrated receiver can do.

As another post mentioned "planned obsolescence" is pretty bad. I miss the old days of analog gear lasting you a decade without upgrading. Now that Audyssey DSX 2 was just announced, just wait until HDMI 2.0 gets announced later this year. That will certainly throw a new monkey wrench in the home theater world as we know it. smile.gif
post #2350 of 7693
OK so 4520 up and running but it is stuck on internet radio. Display is frozen and if I select usb or anything else it continues playing internet radio. Maybe a defective unit or was dropped to hard by best buy. Hate to do the full reset had a 3808 4 years never had to. anyone have any ideas?
post #2351 of 7693
Even the display and iphone app is frozen
post #2352 of 7693
Quote:
Originally Posted by avatar9 View Post

OK so 4520 up and running but it is stuck on internet radio. Display is frozen and if I select usb or anything else it continues playing internet radio. Maybe a defective unit or was dropped to hard by best buy. Hate to do the full reset had a 3808 4 years never had to. anyone have any ideas?

Powering off or unplugging the unit doesn't un-stick it? A processor reset is the next course of action. You will lose your settings and calibration, of course, unless you saved the configuration. If you didn't, make a note to save the configuration once everything is working again.
post #2353 of 7693
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

.... You will lose your settings and calibration, of course, unless you saved the configuration. If you didn't, make a note to save the configuration once everything is working again.

 

Quick question, does the configuration back also include an Audyssey calibration?

 

TIA!

_____

Axel

post #2354 of 7693
Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeantYnot View Post


As another post mentioned "planned obsolescence" is pretty bad. I miss the old days of analog gear lasting you a decade without upgrading. Now that Audyssey DSX 2 was just announced, just wait until HDMI 2.0 gets announced later this year. That will certainly throw a new monkey wrench in the home theater world as we know it. smile.gif

It's only obsolete if you have to have the latest and greatest. You could literally live quite a while with the 4520 without an upgrade. I don't see any must have features coming around the corner.
post #2355 of 7693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axel View Post

Quick question, does the configuration back also include an Audyssey calibration?
Yes, Save is a snapshot of everything so Load restores all manual custom settings and the Audyssey calibration.
post #2356 of 7693
Thanks for the info. I did go ahead changed the setting in the remote programming to have one button to power on and off the receiver versus a separate button for both and that solved the zones coming on at the same time. I also refreshed the device settings for the TV to leave the input on the last one selected and that took care of the input selection coming on the screen. Both of these were done by changing the device settings in the remote control setup so one might want to look there to setup things correctly for the remote. Thanks for the tips AustinJerry.
post #2357 of 7693
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgwalsh View Post

It's only obsolete if you have to have the latest and greatest. You could literally live quite a while with the 4520 without an upgrade. I don't see any must have features coming around the corner.

From my understanding, the new HDMI spec is geared towards improved native 4k performance. This will be extremely important in the coming years when 4k TVs become affordable for most people's homes. I would venture to say 1.4 was the most radical spec that rendered a lot of devices useless when 3D was introduced. I don't see the sense of dropping $2500 every 3-4 years to keep up, I would be more than happy to keep my 4520 for 10 years or longer.
post #2358 of 7693
Denon is suggesting returning it due to possible network card issue.
post #2359 of 7693
Quote:
Originally Posted by avatar9 View Post

Denon is suggesting returning it due to possible network card issue.

That sucks. frown.gif
Good luck and please let us know how quick the turn around is.
Good customer service is a strong factor once we get to this price point.
post #2360 of 7693
Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeantYnot View Post

As another post mentioned "planned obsolescence" is pretty bad. I miss the old days of analog gear lasting you a decade without upgrading. Now that Audyssey DSX 2 was just announced, just wait until HDMI 2.0 gets announced later this year. That will certainly throw a new monkey wrench in the home theater world as we know it. smile.gif

OEMs have to eat....rolleyes.gif
post #2361 of 7693
Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeantYnot View Post

From my understanding, the new HDMI spec is geared towards improved native 4k performance. This will be extremely important in the coming years when 4k TVs become affordable for most people's homes. I would venture to say 1.4 was the most radical spec that rendered a lot of devices useless when 3D was introduced. I don't see the sense of dropping $2500 every 3-4 years to keep up, I would be more than happy to keep my 4520 for 10 years or longer.
Me too. I had the Outlaw 990 until this upgrade. I don't see myself upgrading to 4K until prices drop to current 1080P prices. However, it'll be a while before there's a lot of content in 4k and therefor in no rush.

As for 3D.. Don't like it, not even in the theater, and my wife doesn't either.

Been installing HDMI over ethernet with 2 ethernet cables. I wonder if that'll take HDMI 2.0.
post #2362 of 7693
I'm running 11.2 now, using a 3310 as an amplifier for the Front Heights alone. Would I be better off using the 3310 to Bi-Amp the front speakers instead or continue as is?

Basically wondering if the Bi-Amp signal from the 3310 would be better than the RF & LF channels of the 4520 with all other amp channels being driven on the 4520.
post #2363 of 7693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post

I'm running 11.2 now, using a 3310 as an amplifier for the Front Heights alone. Would I be better off using the 3310 to Bi-Amp the front speakers instead or continue as is?

Basically wondering if the Bi-Amp signal from the 3310 would be better than the RF & LF channels of the 4520 with all other amp channels being driven on the 4520.

I personally wouldn't bother with bi-amping unless you are using active crossovers for your speakers.
Use a bigger amp instead.
post #2364 of 7693
Thread Starter 
+1

If you want to increase "headroom" for the 4520's amps, I would offload more of the channels to the 3310. For example, you could use the 3310 to power the heights, surrounds, and surround backs and leave the 4520 running the more power-hungry front, center, and wide channels.

Honestly though I would recommend just selling off the 3310 and buying a real amplifier, an AVR works but it's sort of a square-peg-for-a-round-hole solution to external amps. For example, you could sell off the 3310 for $400-500 and then buy an Emotiva XPA-3 to power the L/C/R channels.
post #2365 of 7693
I know this may be an apples and oranges question, but wondering if anyone out there has an opinion on the 4520 vs 4810 in terms of SQ/PQ, or any other comparison you'd choose to make, for that matter. Can't friggin' believe I'm considering dumping a 2010 model already....UGH!
post #2366 of 7693
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadClams View Post

I know this may be an apples and oranges question, but wondering if anyone out there has an opinion on the 4520 vs 4810 in terms of SQ/PQ, or any other comparison you'd choose to make, for that matter. Can't friggin' believe I'm considering dumping a 2010 model already....UGH!

What is your 4810 not doing that you think the 4520 will?
That is the real question for you. cool.gif
post #2367 of 7693
You may already be aware of this, but in case you're not, the 4x10 AVRs have a fairly widespread issue.
If you're 4810 has the original NIC card it may fail if you haven't had this issue yet and unit is still under warranty it might be a good idea to get it replaced. Some owners have ordered the card and replaced it themselves. If your unit was a refurb there's a chance you may have the NIC card which is not prone to fail. See 4310 and 4810 owner's threads and search "NIC" for more details & info.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadClams View Post

I know this may be an apples and oranges question, but wondering if anyone out there has an opinion on the 4520 vs 4810 in terms of SQ/PQ, or any other comparison you'd choose to make, for that matter. Can't friggin' believe I'm considering dumping a 2010 model already....UGH!
post #2368 of 7693
Thread Starter 
In this case it's really about (1) the step forward to MultEQ XT32 and (2) the improved network options (e.g. Pandora, Airplay, etc). Plus of course the new whiz-bang feature doodads like HDMI Zone 4 output, 4k support, 3D support, InstaPrevue, etc.

Outside of XT32 I doubt there is any real difference in "raw" sound quality or PQ.
post #2369 of 7693
Does anyone know if these do 2.1 I can't seem to find the setting to use the sub with stereo. I realize it's better not to but II hate to give my fronts such a workout when I listen to music.
post #2370 of 7693
Initial impression: IMPRESSED... definitely clearer (better separation) than my 3808 had, and still has the warm sound we have all come to love from these Japanese made Denons
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