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The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 87

post #2581 of 4531
1/31/13 at 3:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

Your right, it's more of an Audyssey question and has been answered many times. You probably know that though.

 

Many times, but always one short of 'enough' it seems ;)

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post #2582 of 4531
1/31/13 at 4:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Many times, but always one short of 'enough' it seems wink.gif

Yes, I was a bit short with him though. Sounded a bit conspiratorial to me which I don't have much patience with.
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post #2583 of 4531
1/31/13 at 8:39am
hello guys. first time over at the denon section. Im intrigued by this particular model and was wondering if I could get some likes and dislikes from owners. I read through multiple pages but wanted to just ask the owners mainly their impressions of the unit. Is anyone running it as a pre pro also.

any advice would be greatly appreciated.
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post #2584 of 4531
1/31/13 at 9:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Amidst all the warm-and-fuzzy nostalgia about the beef in the 5803, it's worth actually reading the review and noting the following about that 4ohm test:
I'm not going to argue that the 5803 doesn't have a better amp section than a modern unit like the 4520, but I think the point is that if you REALLY need extra power, you need external amplification.

The original point wasn't discussing the 4ohm capability but rather the lack of manufacturer stated specs when it comes to current gen AVRs. I simply provided an explanation that a decade ago the claims of stated power output (with multiple channels driven) were very accurate compared to what is produced today. Given that the 5803 failed at 4ohms 26% above its rated 8ohm output is still quite impressive to me. I'm simply stating that it would be nice to see the 4520 meet it's stated power output. I'm looking forward to the upcoming reviews to show benchmark tests.
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post #2585 of 4531
1/31/13 at 9:32am
Haven't found much to complain about other than the display seems to be getting smaller on these things. I appreciate the bigger letters since I watch from across the room but I swear the displays were wider on previous models. I guess we are still only missing the output channel lights, which were nice, but mostly unnecessary since how it is getting decoded can tell you it's at least 5 channel or 2. But in general if you are seriously AVR shopping it is unreasonable not to put this model near the top of your list. Unfortunately there are not many AVRs out there that seriously compete with the 4520. This and the fact that I have become a Denon fan over the years has made this the literal only choice available for me. You have to decide for yourself but be sure to get somewhere (even a fancy soundroom in an audio store) to hear this thing for yourself and compare against the others on your list with your ears, since this is the only way you can really know if you really want a particular AVR. Lots of people on this forum are constantly discussing their happiness with the 4520 and the pre pro situation, so please do a search there is plenty written on this subject. Good luck.
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post #2586 of 4531
1/31/13 at 9:35am
I am almost considering paying for a bench test of the 4520 just to stop all of this power speculation. Until we have the facts we might as well discuss unicorns.
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post #2587 of 4531
1/31/13 at 9:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Many times, but always one short of 'enough' it seems wink.gif

I guess that means it's actually infinity short of enough . . . .
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post #2588 of 4531
1/31/13 at 10:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

Yes, I was a bit short with him though. Sounded a bit conspiratorial to me which I don't have much patience with.
I didn't fully understand that it was the AVR setting the crossovers, I thought it was Audyssey. I still think, as a company, Audessey in order to maintain brand integrity, could simply demand control of this area of the AVR as a condition of usage.

It's completely logical to put certain demands on how their product is used in order to protect the integrity of their brand. Besides, the result would be better sound, so what is there to lose?
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post #2589 of 4531
1/31/13 at 11:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Many times, but always one short of 'enough' it seems wink.gif

Yes, I was a bit short with him though. Sounded a bit conspiratorial to me which I don't have much patience with.

 

:) 

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post #2590 of 4531
1/31/13 at 11:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHAz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Many times, but always one short of 'enough' it seems wink.gif

I guess that means it's actually infinity short of enough . . . .

 

It definitely feels that way ;)

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post #2591 of 4531
1/31/13 at 11:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by avatar9 View Post

Haven't found much to complain about other than the display seems to be getting smaller on these things. I appreciate the bigger letters since I watch from across the room but I swear the displays were wider on previous models. I guess we are still only missing the output channel lights, which were nice, but mostly unnecessary since how it is getting decoded can tell you it's at least 5 channel or 2. But in general if you are seriously AVR shopping it is unreasonable not to put this model near the top of your list. Unfortunately there are not many AVRs out there that seriously compete with the 4520. This and the fact that I have become a Denon fan over the years has made this the literal only choice available for me. You have to decide for yourself but be sure to get somewhere (even a fancy soundroom in an audio store) to hear this thing for yourself and compare against the others on your list with your ears, since this is the only way you can really know if you really want a particular AVR. Lots of people on this forum are constantly discussing their happiness with the 4520 and the pre pro situation, so please do a search there is plenty written on this subject. Good luck.


Agreed. I already have found a dealer to make my purchase in the next month or so to replace my Pioneer Elite. From my research, the Denon 4520 is quite possibly the best AVR to purchase right now (besides it's twin brother Marantz 8801). Denon seems to be the only manufacturer that has the fewest failure rates that I hear about. My original purchase decision was going to be an Onkyo 5009/5010. However, over the years I have been following Onkyo I read a lot about quality issues, particularly HDMI board failures. A few people I know personally have used Denon since the mid 90s and swear by them.

For the record, I will only use the 4520 as a pre/pro and have 2 external amps to power all my speakers. I like the fact that Denon has an option to switch off its amplification to increase its sonic performance.
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post #2592 of 4531
1/31/13 at 11:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Theresa View Post

Yes, I was a bit short with him though. Sounded a bit conspiratorial to me which I don't have much patience with.
I didn't fully understand that it was the AVR setting the crossovers, I thought it was Audyssey. I still think, as a company, Audessey in order to maintain brand integrity, could simply demand control of this area of the AVR as a condition of usage.

It's completely logical to put certain demands on how their product is used in order to protect the integrity of their brand. Besides, the result would be better sound, so what is there to lose?

 

AIUI they did pressure the AVR manufacturers for control of that but were resisted. In the end a commercial decision has to be taken - accept the status quo being offered or simply not do business with the client. I have been in that situation many times and it is a hard choice. In the end, the company has a duty to its employees and shareholders as well as to its clients and turning away substantial lucrative business because the client won't play ball according to the rules you want can often lead to bankruptcy. IDK why the AVR manufacturers are so keen to retain control of XO setting - maybe it's part of a wider issue that we are not privy to.

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post #2593 of 4531
1/31/13 at 12:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by avatar9 View Post

I am almost considering paying for a bench test of the 4520 just to stop all of this power speculation. Until we have the facts we might as well discuss unicorns.

 

Better idea, IMO, take the money and put it towards a nice external power amp and stop obsessing about it.

 

Edit:  Oh, dear.  If I start sounding like GaryJ, please let me know...eek.gif

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post #2594 of 4531
1/31/13 at 1:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

It definitely feels that way wink.gif

If laggards like me would spend more time fmiliarizing ourselves with the glories of the FAQ we could, like the old joke about joke telling, just start responding with #6! and #9!
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post #2595 of 4531
1/31/13 at 1:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHAz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

It definitely feels that way wink.gif

If laggards like me would spend more time fmiliarizing ourselves with the glories of the FAQ we could, like the old joke about joke telling, just start responding with #6! and #9!

 

:)  I've heard 9 before - but 6 made me laugh.... ;)

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post #2596 of 4531
1/31/13 at 1:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeantYnot View Post

... I like the fact that Denon has an option to switch off its amplification to increase its sonic performance.
Yes it will stop sending signals to all amps in "Preamp" mode but the amps remain on-they are idle and draw very little, if any, power. Theoretically that could reduce the amount of noise and lower the noise floor.

Based on my A/B tests of the A100/4311, which has the same PM, the SQ benefits of PM are likely quite small, if present at all. I turned off Audyssey and all processing and level-matched, then switched back and forth from NL mode to PM listening to the same short delicate musical passage. I heard a slight SQ improvement with PM in a quiet room with very high quality source material with really good speakers.

Note that I did not do a BAB and such subtle SQ differences can easily be expectation-biased. To put it in perspective, this is a smaller SQ improvement effect than I heard when switching to bitstream DSD vs sending PCM from an Oppo, which is smaller than that from DenonLink, which is smaller than that from Audyssey Pro which is smaller than from moving up from XT->XT32.

That said, I don't believe we've had any reports of PM comparisons using the 4520.
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post #2597 of 4531
1/31/13 at 1:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Better idea, IMO, take the money and put it towards a nice external power amp and stop obsessing about it.

Edit:  Oh, dear.  If I start sounding like GaryJ, please let me know...eek.gif
Agreed, yes let's let this power obsession thing go (until we see reliable data from testing multiple units by reliable testers), that was the point I was trying to make. External amp is the last thing I need, I think this thing is overpowered for my home use myself, I mostly use a 5.1 channel setup anyways (wife won't let me put my S-back channel speakers in the living room "they are too big and ugly"). I can't really imagine needing more power. That being said if people want to complain about power maybe they should focus it at the mfg's so the future AVR's don't get less powerful. I just tend to believe the power stuff is not really a huge issue since my last avr the 3808 rated 130w when released in 07 and this one is rated 150w in 2012 and this one definitely has more power. No question here the difference is obvious, same everything across the board in my set up as my 3808. So this power problem goes back further than that I guess. I would think people would have complained before now though.
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post #2598 of 4531
1/31/13 at 2:12pm
Any one has success using direct airplay on this receiver? i had this receiver showed up once in the airplay speaker list but never after. i called Denon and LOL it was an experience with the worst attitude problem that i got from an on line help person, and will never call denon again. and will think twice before buy Denon LOL.
i tried different solutions including IGMP on/off but nothing is working with WNDR3700 netgear router. Denon is hard wired and it is on the network. i can see rest of the airplay Speakers but not Denon.
Thank you in advance.
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post #2599 of 4531
1/31/13 at 2:21pm
I would think this has got to be a problem with your router. I have had two of these 4520's, one had a faulty network card from being dropped, and both have worked super flawlessly with airplay on all of my devices. I would bet that it is a router issue. Are your other speakers network or bluetooth? Because I don't think it is fair to blame denon. Btw I have a belkin n router and never even had to do anything to set this up special for airplay or denon.
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post #2600 of 4531
1/31/13 at 2:27pm
I have the same netgear router. There are days when I can see the Denon as an airplay speaker from my PCs and iDevices. On other days I can only see it from my PCs - wired or wireless while the iDevices cannot see it. It's all very odd.

I know this doesn't answer your question. My guess is that it's a problem with the combination of the router and the iDevices.
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post #2601 of 4531
1/31/13 at 3:20pm
I just looked inside my 12 years old Denon AVR-5600 that I owned before getting the 5803. It does have a toroidal transformer!… Pretty depressing when I look at my 4520…
I bet my 15 year old Denon AVC-3030 that I don’t possess anymore came with a toroidal transformer as well.
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post #2602 of 4531
1/31/13 at 3:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by avatar9 View Post

Haven't found much to complain about other than the display seems to be getting smaller on these things. I appreciate the bigger letters since I watch from across the room but I swear the displays were wider on previous models. I guess we are still only missing the output channel lights, which were nice, but mostly unnecessary since how it is getting decoded can tell you it's at least 5 channel or 2. But in general if you are seriously AVR shopping it is unreasonable not to put this model near the top of your list. Unfortunately there are not many AVRs out there that seriously compete with the 4520. This and the fact that I have become a Denon fan over the years has made this the literal only choice available for me. You have to decide for yourself but be sure to get somewhere (even a fancy soundroom in an audio store) to hear this thing for yourself and compare against the others on your list with your ears, since this is the only way you can really know if you really want a particular AVR. Lots of people on this forum are constantly discussing their happiness with the 4520 and the pre pro situation, so please do a search there is plenty written on this subject. Good luck.

The display and lettering are both bigger than on my last AVR the Onkyo 705 so I am content.
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post #2603 of 4531
1/31/13 at 4:16pm
Agree on the lettering, it is a great improvement, I can read it from 25' away sitting in my dining room. It is just that I am pretty sure that my 3808 had a wider display, so this one looks like it cuts off on the left a bit to my eye. I think it kind of looks weird the way the glass continues but it is black underneath so that makes you expect more display. I know the lettering size can change perspective and it is not a significant complaint to have, but still are these led boards really that expensive that it cannot be a little wider?
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post #2604 of 4531
1/31/13 at 4:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

smile.gif  I've heard 9 before - but 6 made me laugh.... wink.gif

I'm just not a very good joke teller.
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post #2605 of 4531
1/31/13 at 5:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by avatar9 View Post

Agreed, yes let's let this power obsession thing go (until we see reliable data from testing multiple units by reliable testers), that was the point I was trying to make. External amp is the last thing I need, I think this thing is overpowered for my home use myself, I mostly use a 5.1 channel setup anyways (wife won't let me put my S-back channel speakers in the living room "they are too big and ugly"). I can't really imagine needing more power. That being said if people want to complain about power maybe they should focus it at the mfg's so the future AVR's don't get less powerful. I just tend to believe the power stuff is not really a huge issue since my last avr the 3808 rated 130w when released in 07 and this one is rated 150w in 2012 and this one definitely has more power. No question here the difference is obvious, same everything across the board in my set up as my 3808. So this power problem goes back further than that I guess. I would think people would have complained before now though.

I would go a step further and say we don't need to wait for results from tests to let it go, given tests of current and past Denon AVRs by reliable sites like HT, it's a virtual certainty that it will do better than 80wpc with 7 channels driven and possibly 100wpc or more. Interestingly, the Denon 3808 that you replaced was tested at 114 wpc with 7 channels driven and it's power consumption was listed as 7.2 Amps which is very similar to the 4520's listed power consumption of 780 watts. Thus, I would expect the 4520 to have output power in the same ballpark which I think most people would be quite happy with.
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post #2606 of 4531
1/31/13 at 5:35pm
It is considerably more powerful per the same volume setting than the 3808 I am sure of it. Also my wife keeps telling me to it's way too loud, when I try to listen at the same volume we used to listen to the 3808 at regularly (usually -28). The new acceptable loudest for my wife on the 4520 is at -33 btw. (this of course varies by source but I am referring to digital music listening, just like we listened to on the 3808)
Edited by avatar9 - 1/31/13 at 5:43pm
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post #2607 of 4531
1/31/13 at 6:18pm
if it is louder when calibrated to zero = reference something is off in one of the calibrations. Not a big big dealford but youI can't compare settings between the 2. Otherwise the volume control setting means precisely nothing about power output.
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post #2608 of 4531
1/31/13 at 6:26pm
That would be true if the 3808CI has the $100 Dyn EQ/Vol Upgrade package installed.
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post #2609 of 4531
1/31/13 at 6:43pm
In the menu before running Audyssey, do you have to assign amp sections to speakers and setup channel select for each speaker, in my case 5 speakers and two subs.

thanks





Edited by nezff - 1/31/13 at 6:48pm
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post #2610 of 4531
1/31/13 at 6:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by avatar9 View Post

Agreed, yes let's let this power obsession thing go (until we see reliable data from testing multiple units by reliable testers), that was the point I was trying to make. External amp is the last thing I need, I think this thing is overpowered for my home use myself, I mostly use a 5.1 channel setup anyways (wife won't let me put my S-back channel speakers in the living room "they are too big and ugly"). I can't really imagine needing more power. That being said if people want to complain about power maybe they should focus it at the mfg's so the future AVR's don't get less powerful. I just tend to believe the power stuff is not really a huge issue since my last avr the 3808 rated 130w when released in 07 and this one is rated 150w in 2012 and this one definitely has more power. No question here the difference is obvious, same everything across the board in my set up as my 3808. So this power problem goes back further than that I guess. I would think people would have complained before now though.

If you have a back wall, these have a pretty good WAF. I have a pair of these behind my seating. I even added 30" of wall just so I could install them.

http://www.amazon.com/Definitive-Technology-Ceiling-Bipolar-Speakers/dp/B000TDCK7O/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1359686991&sr=1-2&keywords=Definitive+Technology+UIW+BPZ%2FA
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