The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 90

Originally Posted by Dreamliner 

I've got a 4311 at the moment, currently waiting for my 4520. I know its a different model, but I can hear hiss with the volume all the way up (+15). I can also faintly heard the HD radio bleed. This is even on a speaker that is only a few feet from the receiver as well as the farthest one. The 4311 is certainly modern, but mine hisses, too. At 0.0, its silent. No way has this ever affected my usage as its almost never over 0.0, and its usually playing something when it is.

Originally Posted by avatar9 

Definitely not coming from any other source. I unplugged the rest of the equipment the entire circuit only powers the AVR and the hiss is still there plus the radio or internet radio doesn't need to be on for this hiss (and changing tuning does not help. I am perplexed but not very bothered by this, as I never listen to it that way. Besides some gain sound may be normal at these volumes; But if you did sit back with this thing cranked to max and just listened to an empty source channel you could go crazy.

Originally Posted by Theresa 

Turning it up to max volume just to be bothered by hiss is a useless exercise.

Originally Posted by avatar9 

But if you did sit back with this thing cranked to max and just listened to an empty source channel you could go crazy.

Originally Posted by Theresa 

Turning it up to max volume just to be bothered by hiss is a useless exercise.

Originally Posted by avatar9 

 But if you did sit back with this thing cranked to max and just listened to an empty source channel you could go crazy.

Originally Posted by laulau 

So, on a totally different subject...

Does anyone know what the output impedance of the preamp section is?

Originally Posted by avatar9 

200 mV / 47 kohms

Originally Posted by avatar9 

Yes there is with internet radio on, and different source selected. The hiss gets pretty audible close to the speaker especially at 6.0 and above. The hiss is barely present at 0.0 but if you listened all the time at 0.0 dB with no source on it may get to you.

Originally Posted by avatar9 

I am surprised just me and Joe6p are the only ones. It is really obvious to me (but I have been careful with my hearing mostly). I have a separate power circuit that only runs to my avr and HT equip. and another separate circuit that runs the pj. I have nothing else powered on, except my timewarner samsung DVR which is always on. So maybe it's the cable box, I can go check now and I just might since everyone is claiming complete silence.

Originally Posted by Dreamliner 

I've got a 4311 at the moment, currently waiting for my 4520. I know its a different model, but I can hear hiss with the volume all the way up (+15). I can also faintly heard the HD radio bleed. This is even on a speaker that is only a few feet from the receiver as well as the farthest one. The 4311 is certainly modern, but mine hisses, too. At 0.0, its silent. No way has this ever affected my usage as its almost never over 0.0, and its usually playing something when it is.

Originally Posted by avatar9 

Definitely not coming from any other source. I unplugged the rest of the equipment the entire circuit only powers the AVR and the hiss is still there plus the radio or internet radio doesn't need to be on for this hiss (and changing tuning does not help. I am perplexed but not very bothered by this, as I never listen to it that way. Besides some gain sound may be normal at these volumes; But if you did sit back with this thing cranked to max and just listened to an empty source channel you could go crazy.

Originally Posted by avatar9 

I do not get any bleed through at all though just hiss and same experience here minus that bleed. I think no biggie.

Originally Posted by Theresa 

I used to obsess over FM radio hiss and multipath. I let it make me crazy. Eventually I just got a roof top antenna and rotator. But now even without such a fancy antenna I don't let it bother me. Like I said, at the volumes I listen to it, quite loud, there is no hiss or bleed through. Turning it up to max volume just to be bothered by hiss is a useless exercise.

Originally Posted by Dreamliner 

Agreed. 100%.

If I could hear anything but silence at say -10, I'd have reason to complain. I bet the Marantz 8801 is better in this regard, but it is of zero consequence to normal, or even higher than normal use.

Now, my old car stereo had audible FM between switching tracks on the MP3 player.

Originally Posted by avatar9 

Thanks for your concern on this hiss stuff, I joke, but I truly feel like if we don't pay attention and hold manufacturers accountable we lose quality aspects as time goes on. Even though I try not to think about it too much, do to it's lack of relevancy to me in my particular usage. It feels like it should be silent at this level of avr or maybe I am just jealous that your 58xx is silent (never looked for it, but never noticed it on the 3808 either). Makes me wonder if it was a characteristic of the particular architecture of the unit, or just the best they thought they needed to do to market it. While it may be irrelevant to some how much hiss you hear now, still are you willing to put up with even more hiss on your future avr's and we all know there will more than likely be a 4520 replacement in all of our homes in maybe 5-10 more years? I guess what I am saying is we should care just enough(draw a line in the sand at 0.0 dB), so it doesn't become a problem for more of us in the future.

Originally Posted by avatar9 

1.2V analog or 2V dig.

• Analog
Input sensitivity/Input impedance: 200 mV/47 kΩ
Frequency response: 10 Hz – 100 kHz — +1, –3 dB (DIRECT mode)
S/N: 102 dB (IHF–A weighted, DIRECT mode)
Distortion: 0.005 % (20 Hz – 20 kHz) (DIRECT mode)
Rated output: 1.2 V

• Digital
D/A output: Rated output — 2 V (at 0 dB playback)
Total harmonic distortion — 0.008 % (1 kHz, at 0 dB)
S/N ratio — 102 dB
Dynamic range — 100 dB
Digital input: Format — Digital audio interface

Originally Posted by Dreamliner 

^We should care. To be honest, if something would get accomplished by complaining, I would. I'll just get told it's only me experiencing it and nothing will get passed along to someone that can actually do something.

They SHOULD have ZERO hiss or bleed at max volume. Anything else is a compromise on quality or a defect. Simple as that.

Originally Posted by Theresa 

Then I guess the 4520, and perhaps any other receiver, is not for you.

Originally Posted by Dreamliner 

I'm not saying that. In fact, I stated specifically it doesn't bother me that much; however, saying is either a quality compromise or some sort of defect is still true. I don't recall reading about hiss or input bleed on the spec sheet.

Originally Posted by Joe6P 


Thank you for being reasonable with me.
I understand we all have different priorities nonetheless we shouldn’t be offended by others.
Allow me to share a true story with you…
Back when I was still watching SVHS tapes and laser discs on my 36’ “HD ready“ Toshiba TV, my good friend Mike who happened to be an EE for a major phone company, invested $12K in his first 42” plasma TV. He bragged so much about the “new” HD quality in his picture but for me it looked way below my expectations. My curiosity made me look behind that Plasma TV one day. I found all kinds of cables hooked to it including component, composite and S video. So I took the liberty pulling the one yellow composite cable and the picture stopped…
Needless to say, Mike is still my friend but we learned how to respect another’s priorities; He enjoys KoolAid I prefer good Cabernet…

Cheers Yo’ll

Originally Posted by kbarnes701 

That's something you haven't told us if you have tried - pull out all the interconnects. Does the hiss go away or is still there?  If it goes away, replace them one at a time and see when it comes back. You have either a fault in your equipment or a setup problem - the only way to find out which is to do some logical troubleshooting. Simply coming back with irrelevant anecdotes and/or just repeating yourself won't help get your problem solved. 

Originally Posted by Hugo S 

Bonjour Keith,

Even as an owner of a 11.x installation since more than 3 yrs now, "intellectually" I've always been a huge fan of... integrated processor-amps products. As I think that today's potential switching power supplies feeding internal amps can be largely adequate for a domestic use. But without the hassle generated by additional external (by definition) noisy connections.

But as no such product integrating 11 amps does exist today, in my case I was "obliged" to go the external amplification way.

Now with the 4311 and 4520, I tried an 9 internal +2 external configuration (even though I had a 9 channels external amp), but in both cases (4311 + 4520) I reverted to an 7 fronts external + 4 rears internal amplification solution, with RCA connections.

Today with the 8801 I use 2* 9 channels external amps (2* Onkyo PA MC5500) with all XLR connections. And this is for the time being, what gives me (with an Audyssey Pro calibration) the sweetest sounding result I have ever had at home.

Now if Onkyo would have put on the market the hypothetical 5510, having a full 11.2 processing capability, I would have gone that way. But as this is not being the case, I think that the 8801 will remain at home - probably, if the DTS Neo X 11 bug is corrected -, longer than my personal usual use of such an evolutive type of product.

Bon WE,

Hugo

Originally Posted by kbarnes701 

That's something you haven't told us if you have tried - pull out all the interconnects. Does the hiss go away or is still there?  If it goes away, replace them one at a time and see when it comes back. You have either a fault in your equipment or a setup problem - the only way to find out which is to do some logical troubleshooting. Simply coming back with irrelevant anecdotes and/or just repeating yourself won't help get your problem solved. 

Originally Posted by avatar9 

Actually did this pulled all of the plugs to everything else the only thing running on the entire brand new circuit is the avr and the hiss is still there. I can hear it at 0.0 dB but I have to listen for it. I do have 8ohm speakers that are sensitive. I don't think we should be super happy about this. I can understand not complaining too much but on a forum about the 4520 it is worth noting and comparing what is important to some of us in our particular systems and usage. What is important to each of us is different, yet here we all are playing our 4520's on a myriad of different systems and setups. Obviously questions and answers are pretty key to a forum if a particular topic doesn't interest one of us we should try to realize that someone else might care a lot. Sorry for preaching but it is Sunday...over and out of here.

Originally Posted by SoundofMind 

^I'd use "Search this thread" for "8801" here. Then search the 8801 thread for "4520". This has been fairly well discussed as it is a good question. I'd think the opinion on this thred would be that for most folks, especially if they don't already have sufficient Ext amps, the price difference will probably not be the best way to spend your HT bucks.

Originally Posted by SoundofMind 

^I'd use "Search this thread" for "8801" here. Then search the 8801 thread for "4520". This has been fairly well discussed as it is a good question. I'd think the opinion on this thred would be that for most folks, especially if they don't already have sufficient Ext amps, the price difference will probably not be the best way to spend your HT bucks.