The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 92

I don't know, I think it's a bit silly to match electronics for aesthetic reasons or proprietary connectors of negligible importance. From that perspective I don't think Denon has a player that's as compelling as an Oppo 103/105.

Also, I have to wonder about the logic behind picking a Marantz 8801 over a Denon 4520 when the price is factored in. I guess I've always seen separates as making sense if you treat the pre/pro as a disposal item that you discard as technology changes every few years. With that in mind, I can't see the logic behind paying more for a pre/pro that has a feature set that is essentially equivalent to a full-fledged AVR. The only real difference I see here is the balanced outputs and I've yet to see any support for any real-world difference in a typical setup (i.e. the amps are relatively close to the pre/pro).

I was interested in the statement : "From that perspective I don't think Denon has a player that's as compelling as an Oppo 103/105. ". Have you looked at the DBT3313UD?
I have been using the AVR-4520 and DBT3313 (using Denon HD Link) combination for about a month now, this replaced an AVR2310, Marantz CD-6002 CDplayer and Panasonic DMp-BD65 Blu-ray .
The difference in sound and picture across all formats ( Home Theatre, Music), is amazing and I am very pleased to be using a combination of products that work seemlessly together. I have not compared the Oppo players with the Denon, but in Australia at least the Denon is much cheaper ( Oppo 105 $1500, Denon $900).
I would be interested to know if anyone has done a comparison of the 2 (Oppo and Denon) using the AVR-4520. I will not be changing my combination, but it may be useful for others who are comtemplating this type of player with the 4520.

Agree with the comment about the 8801 compared to the 4520, the price difference here in Australia is enormous, just for the Pre-amp component. ( 8801 $5750, AVr4520 $3500).

Some of us expect to want to replace the disc player every couple of years because that's often the cheapest way to get new networking and other features. As a result, spending more than $100-$200 on a player is unacceptable. That's why the pricing of modern Sony and Panasonic BD players seems so compelling. If you're just using the disc player as a transport for discs and networking (i.e. just using its HDMI output), spending the extra money for high quality analog outputs is a waste.

^I love my PS3, so much functionality.

the blu-ray disc loading speed of the Oppo 103 is awesome and worth it .

Well in Canada the story is a little different - the DBT3313 costs twice what the BDP-103 costs and is about the same as the 105.

Don't get me wrong the DBT3313 does look great but so does the Oppo. From my perspective the DBT3313 doesn't seem to offer anything over the 103 (matching looks excepted) which has been reviewed and deemed a reference player - the 3313 is just a transport. As well, the Oppo is very quick to load discs and it's regularly updated. As for Denon Link, my take is that if was actually addressing a significant issue it would be far more common.

On the other hand, the Oppo offers a long list of features the 3313 does not, including two HDMI inputs, 2D to 3D conversion, more streaming services, and the ability to add a Roku streaming stick to name but a few. As for the 105, that in my opinion is in a different league though having a 4520 I don't feel like I actually need the advantages it offers as I'm happy to use the 103 as a transport.
Edited by EVT - 2/5/13 at 7:37pm

Did anyone consider Onkyo TX-NR 5010 vs. Denon 5420ci

Hi,

This being the same questionning permit me to say that after the update of the 8801 and some "intensive" listenings in my favorite processing DTS Neo X 11 (Cinema), what I can confirm is that IMHO, the 8801 is a step up to the 4520.

In fact the 8801 is definitively an Audiophile product. Sound-wise it reminds me of the "immediacy" and "credibility" of Ken Ishiwata's HiFi tunings. These tweakings which were translating into a specific "emotion" through a greater "credibility" in audio reproduction.

The 8801 definitively has this "emotionally credible" characteristic, when the 4520 - even is it IS a very good product -, finally lacks this added value.

So again this is not Day & Night difference, but this is something which is subjectively obvious, if - as an ensemble - all the rest of the Audio (and Video) installation is at an adequate level.

Clearly for me, the 8801 is really the 1st true Audiophile (and Videophile) processor (available to "average" pragmatic people ).

And this is what I wrote on HCFR (French HT Forum).

Now is this 8801 a necessity? Absolutely not, as for its' price the processor-9 amp 4520, will be an excellent performer. But if you can afford external amps, do you a favor, buy the 8801, yes it IS worth the $$ difference.

Hugo

 

Bonjour mon ami!

 

It's interesting that you see the 'tweakings' of the unit's frequency response as positives. I see them as huge negatives and would never, ever deliberately buy a unit that was introducing 'tone controls' in this way. What I want is total transparency to the source, nothing added and nothing taken away.

 

I am not suggesting you are 'wrong' - just that your aims are diametrically opposed to my own.

 

I do in fact own a stereo amp that adds 'emotion' and 'warmth' and so on to the input source. It sounds wonderfully seductive. But it is not accurate and these days (I have owned this amp for over 20 years) I wouldn't buy such a unit.

 

Amicalement... K

As Keith said, such tweakings should not be needed these days. I have the 4520 and am glad to hear that it is more "honest" than the Marantz. I do hear a difference from my Onkyo but it is so slight I can not define it.

 

TBH, a prepro that deliberately manipulated its sound to make it conform to some person's idea of what 'sounds good' (to them) or is 'right' (to them) fills me with horror. My aim is total transparency to the source, or as close as I can get. I want to hear what is on the disc, coming off the disc, with the absolute minimum of change. It seems to me to be the only way to know 'what is going on'. If a unit deliberately adds some 'warmth' to create a more 'seductive' or more 'engaging' sound, then I suddenly lose the ability to hear what is on the disc. For example, if one violin has a particularly 'warm' sound compared with another (eg a very old instrument of quality as opposed to a more modern instrument of quality) then that is what I want to hear. I don't want the sound of the modern instrument 'warmed up' so that it 'sounds more like' the old instrument, because that will also make the old instrument sound different to what it really sounds like. The very thought makes me shudder. I see it as deliberately introducing distortion.

 

I am not trying to proselytize here, nor am I suggesting that anyone should agree with me, nor that their view is 'wrong' if they disagree with me. I am just stating what my own objectives are - and the one at the top of the list is accuracy to source. Sometimes this will deliver an 'ugly' sound (if that is what is on the disc) but I don't want it to be 'cosmeticised' to make it 'sound better'. Once that happens, then everything you ever play using that equipment has been deliberately distorted.

 

So the bottom line for me is that if the 8801 'enhances' the sound in some way, then it is an inferior unit, by definition, to the 4250 if the latter passes an undistorted, unenhanced, signal.

 

Just my personal view. Not trying to start a war.

+1

do you think there will be an Audiokarma Detroit again this year? Went to their site and everything was still 2012.

Briefly as the 5010 and even the 3010 look great on paper. However, my 4520 replaced my Onkyo 876. I recall going through a similar decision in 2008 and decided in favour of the Onkyo 876 over the Denon 3808 (the 876 was only about $200 more expensive in Canada) as it looked better on paper with THX Ultra2+ certification, built-in Dynamic EQ/Volume and a healthy weight advantage over the Denon 3808.

In retrospect, although the 876 was generally reliable in my setup (it did go through a brief period where video would freeze and another where it would screw up audio decoding) its operation compared to Denon units was lacking in refinement - for example, everytime you changed a surround mode there was a click, HDMI switching was quite slow, as was HDMI synching with my cable box going to and from channels with different resolutions.

Other nitpicks included that the onscreen menus on the Onkyo could not overlay over program material, its great upscaling abilities could not really be exploited as it didn't include aspect ratio control and manual adjustment necessitated leaving the program material and going several layers into menus to change it, and there was no networking so updates had to be done through my laptop using a serial to usb adapter (fortunately I only had to do this once!). Overall, although the 876 was never short on power, the overall user experience I've had with a Denon 3310 that I bought shortly thereafter for my secondary HT room has been far more rewarding (even when I factor in having to replace that unit's network card).

Onkyo units may have changed, but at times looking at their lengthy features lists for the dollar and the accompanying user complaints on this forums threads about the implementation of some of these features makes me wonder if its worth the trouble. Also, although I've seen no mention of it in the 5010/3010 threads, the thread for the Onkyo 818 which seems to have the same video processing solution mentions issues with passing along 24fps material properly so you may want to get confirmation that the 5010 is not affected before making a jump to that unit.

+2

+3

= 5. No, wait, 6. (JHAz is launched from the bridge for failure to answer the questions three . . .)

Thanks for sharing this with me.
I think what attracts me the most to the 5010 is its multiple and separate power supply: one for audio, one for video and the toroidal transformer with two huge capacitors to drive its power amps. Its 12.4Amps AC power input vs. 6.5Amps in the 5420ci means double the power outputs not to mention Onkyo does not avoid mentioning 4ohms ratings. All reviewers admit Denon sounds better than Pioneer but Onkyo sounds better than all of them.
The only reason I replaced my AVR-5803 with the 5420ci was to fix that 180ms lip-sync problem that plagues OPPO-103. Denon took care of the problem since it can be manually set up to 200ms or in auto mode plus up to 100ms. Onkyo can do manual adjustment up to 800ms…
I prefer the Denon remote control, the front display, the versatility in its speaker configuration AND the 7.1 analogue input for SACD players that Onkyo doesn’t have.
On the other hand, I’m concerned about degrading my picture when running it from my OPPO trough Denon’s HDMI to my projector because unlike Onkyo, Denon does not incorporate the state of the art Marvell's Kyoto-G2H video processor with the latest generation Qdeo technology. Kyoto-G2H is what OPPO employs for its HDMI-1 section. HDNI-2 is a lower grade processor.

http://hstrial-jrodriguez996.homestead.com/DENON-AVR-4520CI-RECEIVER-REVIEW.html?_=1353372722253
http://hstrial-jrodriguez996.homestead.com/OPPO-BDP-103-Universal-Network-3D-Blu-ray-player.html?_=1351920348959

I tried another HDMI cable as I had a spare one (high speed) and same problem

Then I tried the Reset PS3 method...

I noticed some things... The screen appears in 576p saying that it found an HDMI... when I press yes, nothing... black screen again.

I tried it a second time and same thing happens, then I tried switching input and back to GAME input and it appeared with the message 1080p, do you want to keep... I say yes and everything seems fine.

I turned everything off then and started normal power up... TV, AVR on correct input and then PS3 and nothing is visible, just blank screen with STEREO audio... I change to another input and back to GAME and screen comes on for 1 second and then turns black again...

I tried to connect the HTPC(1080p) and Dreambox (1080i) to GAME input to see if the problem is with the AVR and both worked good... I played Avatar on HTPC and played flawlessly as well!

At this point I have no idea what to do and I don't know what the problem is!

Any help

After owning an Onkyo TX-NR905, Denon AVR-3808CI, Onkyo TX-NR5008, and Denon AVR-4311CI (the last two are currently in use), I agree with your assessment 100%, particularly with your refinement and HDMI-switching-speed statements. My 5008 is horribly slow locking on to HDMI signals which is particularly annoying when watching Blu-rays as the previews and main program material switch resolutions frequently. My poor projector goes through seizures as the Onkyo fumbles about trying to lock onto the signal coming out of my Oppo BD player. In addition, I much prefer the Denon's menus and OSD presentation to the Onkyo's. It's particularly painful to navigate the Onkyo's setup menus. That said, the Onkyo is a great performer, but so is the 4311CI. Based mainly on useability and refinement, I intend to replace my 5008 with a 4520 in the next few months. It doesn't help the Onkyo's case that it's a ticking time bomb -- it's not a question of if its HDMI board will go on the fritz but when.

Right. But for me, it's not about the analog outs of the player at all. Been there, done that.

When using the disc player as a transport, it's about getting a jitter free digital music signal from the player to the processor. DenonLink accomplishes that, with audible benefit for the audiophile on a budget. Well, not a really small budget like $100 for a player.

No way. With my Denon A100 player, it respectfully allows you a decent interval to sit down and savor the anticipation of the upcoming entertainment. And to pop some popcorn. And make some dip...

The new players do offer a lot of features. With my new Samsung 65" 3D panel, I got a mid-level Samsung Smart player that I use for all movies. It loads pretty fast and saves wear on my Denon player.

What video processor is being used on the 8801?

I'm gonna hook you up with the Southeast Michigan Audiophile Club so you'll be in the loop.

website:
http://sites.google.com/site/michiganaudioclub/

SMAC forum on AUDIOKARMA:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=151

I agree, the 5010 is very compelling. Having said that, with regard to video don't get too excited about the 5010's abilities without looking into whether it's affected by the 24fps bug. Also, as state-of-the art as Oppo is there's currently all sorts of complaints about Qdeo tampering with the PQ even when set to source direct. Knowing Oppo I'm sure it will be fixed - Onkyo (and really most larger AV companies) probably won't be as responsive so I'd follow up on the 24fps issue. Also, if your sending video from your Oppo I don't think anyone is suggesting that the Denon will degrade the video signal - it's just that its upconversion may not be up to the standards set by QDEO - a moot point as far as blu-ray is concerned.

I don't know, maybe I don't qualify as an audiophile but a couple of years ago I recall an occasion where a salesman at a high-end A/V store demoed the previous version of Denon Link for me and I just wasn't hearing the difference that he so eloquently described. Personally, I can't see paying double for the Denon 3313 over the Oppo 103 considering all the extra features the Oppo has. Maybe some people can hear the jitter that Denon Link is supposed to get rid of but I don't count myself as one of them. My somewhat cynical opinion on the matter is that Denon Link is a marketing gimmick to sell a player that offers less for more, at least when compared to the performance/value proposition offered by Oppo.

Hello All,

I wonder if I could have some advice on setting up 4520ci. I am a bit unsure on some of the terminology and so I apologize for not using the correct vernacular.

I am looking to use this system to send video to my main TV room via Output1-HDMI, Kitchen via Output2-HDMI, and bedroom via output3-HDMI (separate signal). These seems to be okay. I plan on hooking up a Roku system with a Linux system to play local videos and audio.

For Audio I am looking to have three zones. It looks like, from the response below, that one can have two separate (playing different audio) zones for audio. Is it possible to have a third separate zone?
I have run 14G speaker wire to three zones, but do not want to have to disconnect and reconnect on the back when wanting to play in a different zone.
Is it possible to hook up four speakers versus only two via Banana clips on one audio out?

Thank you.

Al

---

Hello all,

I am looking for advice on how to setup audio from the 4520ci to play to multiple rooms, playing different content at the same time.
I think this can be done, but I am new to this type of hardware and not very clear on things.

I would like to:
1) use the front, center, and surround for the "TV" room and play HDMI-1 output from Cable, etc. to these
2) Use the Surround Back for the kitchen L/R speakers - use an iPod to play to this
3) Use the Front Height for the dinning room L/R speakers - use Linux box to play to this
4) Use the Front Wide for the bathroom L/R speakers - using a Windows system to play to this

---

I would like to be able to watch TV, while the kitchen, dinning room, and bathroom are playing different content for say Airplay.
I doubt I would ever have more than two going at the same time playing different content, but I am looking to see if this is possible.

I appreciate your input.

Thanks

Al


Welcome to AVS Forum! smile.gif

As noted on the chart on p. 183 in your Owner's manual, with a 5.1 setup in the main zone, you can set the Surround Back and Front Height speaker posts to either Zones 2 or 3 to add 2 additional independent zones (noting the independent sources can only be external devices connected with analog cable (ie no HDMI or optical/digital coax), the on board network audio sources (eg. Spotify, Pandora, internet radio), or USB connected devices. The Front Wide speaker posts cannot be used for another Zone so you would likely want to connect to of the zones listed above together with an impedance matching speaker selector. Zone 4 is only possible via the Zone4(HDMI) output to either another TV or 2nd AVR.

For more questions on your 4520CI, join us in the dedicated Denon 4520CI Owner's thread linked below.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1430049/the-official-denon-avr-4520ci-thread/0_100

thank you, will check it out.

Most definitely. I feel that the Onkyo 3010/5010 is the only major competitor to the Denon 4520 and as a brand has been ahead of the curve by years (first to 4k compatibility, first Dolby PLIIz, first DTS NEO X, etc) and their competition is always playing catch up. I especially like the new eco mode that they are introducing.

However, over the past few years I have read more and more quality concerns regarding Onkyo AVRs. Some common complaints were overheating, power supply failure, HDMI board issues, switching "clicking" relay issues, and various customer support nightmare stories while trying to get these resolved. It starts to make sense as to why you see so many refurbs for sale from authorized dealers and Shop Onkyo.

I rarely come across a dissatisfied Denon owner, and have seen more Denon owners coming from Onkyo than the other way around. This is primarily the reason I will be purchasing a Denon as my next AVR over Onkyo.