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The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 104

post #3091 of 7861
One last question/comment for tonight.
Is anyone here familiar with Klipsch Palladium P-37F?
I’m looking into speakers upgrade. Monitor Audio PL series might be my second option.
Thanks.
post #3092 of 7861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe6P View Post

It stays in active standby if either Zone 2, 3 or 4 is active. Otherwise it turns off when the power button on either RC or the receiver is pushed. (What I mean by off is all displays off but the RC through IR or WIFI in standby mode ready for command to turn the unit on.)

Speaking of unplugging the AC cord, I did a deep rest on mine a couple of days ago because it was acting up. I finished calibrating it and setting it up. I turned it off. Next time I turned it on, it ignored the HDMI input (no audio or video) only internet radio worked. I tried turning it off and on in vain and I was about ready to reset it again until I thought about unplugging and re-plugging. That fixed the problem.
Reminds me of Microsoft Windows…

Also note that although the Network Standby feature defaults to "Always ON" it can be set to OFF (p. 147 OM). A "soft" reset (unplugging power cord for 10 minutes or so) will solve some issues (and is the first suggested troubleshooting step before doing a microprocessor reset) without losing any settings, although should not be expected to be required on a routine basis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe6P View Post

Did someone notice any significant changes with the latest firmware update?

Other than what is listed in the firmware changelog information listed in post #4?
post #3093 of 7861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe6P View Post

One last question/comment for tonight.
Is anyone here familiar with Klipsch Palladium P-37F?
I’m looking into speakers upgrade. Monitor Audio PL series might be my second option.
Thanks.

I had my one and only try at Klipsch. 4250 with oopo 103 and a total Miller Kreisel 7 year old speaker system(5.1) with 2 M&K Subs.. . When I bought the 4250, I bought a couple Bookshelf 62II's for my second Zone, but just for the heck of it, I went ahead and purchased the matching center.This turned it into a 7.1 as I used the M&K as heights... It sounds fine,actually, pretty good on Movies, But went about 10 steps backward on good old rock and roll.Klispch is no match for my old M&Ks..The Klispchs sound like an old AM radiocast compared to the fullness of the M&K's.They are going out in the Garage for my 2nd Zone as originally intended..I know what they say, you get what you pay for. My next step is a set of Ascend Serra Towers or maybe look at Anthony Gallos ...
Edited by ss3740 - 2/23/13 at 7:57am
post #3094 of 7861
I'm having some major problems with my 4520. I got in October when it was released. It worked okay, but was occasonally having problem where, the unit would shutdown in the middle of watching something and no HDMI signal would get output even after turing it back on. I could resolve this with full deep reset, which I tolerated for a little while. I kept trying to update the firmware from the main interface to see if it might fix the issue, but it would always fail. Then I decided to try it from the the Web Interface and the unit was completely hosed (No HDMI out) and not even a deep reset would fix it. I called tech support, brought it to a service center and waited 4 weeks for them to repair it. They replaced the "HDMI board", but said they wouldn't update the firmware (I have no idea why).

So I brought it home last week and it was working okay on a first try, but then I ran Audyssey and I wasn't getting any audio when watching TV. So I decided that I may as well try to update the firmware again. Kept failing and I couldn't ge itt to stop trying (turn on the unit and get "update retry"). So I try a full reset again. !!! No HDMI out anymore and I still doesn't work with a full deep reset. The units LCD display looks ok. I can see it in the Web interface. (Says firmware version is 3325-5703-FF53)

Long story short, even after bringing it to the service center once, my 4520 is busted.

I don't what to do. I guess I'll have to call Denon Support on Monday, but I don't have much faith since they weren't able to fix it the first time.

Can anyone offer suggestions? Thanks, I'm pretty desperate.
Edited by DANNER - 2/23/13 at 11:01pm
post #3095 of 7861
^I'd suggest you call Denon, explain you would like your 4520 replaced, that your local service center has failed. Ask if you can ship your unit directly to Denon, ask for a shipping label as you tried resolving it locally without luck.

I'd keep more pressure on asking for a replacement than a free label. Shipping sucks, new replacements don't.

I don't hear many local repair successes, 'authorized' repair centers or not.
post #3096 of 7861
Quote:
Originally Posted by DANNER View Post


Can anyone offer suggestions? Thanks, I'm pretty desperate.

I’d definitely insist on a replacement unit.
I’m curious if your unit has enough space to breath. Mine is on top of the rack with no ventilation restrictions but I’m still not comfortable with the amount of heat radiating from the heat sinks.
I’ve also noticed if I make too many adjustments too fast the processor tends to slow down and possibly freeze.
That is a problem we’ll have to live with from now on since our receivers became computers.
The good news is we’ll eventually learn how to identify and replace individual cards instead of throwing the whole receiver away when it’s out of warranty.
I’m sure many of us started thinking we need to become more familiar with our receiver’s guts.
post #3097 of 7861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post

^I'd suggest you call Denon, explain you would like your 4520 replaced, that your local service center has failed. Ask if you can ship your unit directly to Denon, ask for a shipping label as you tried resolving it locally without luck.

I'd keep more pressure on asking for a replacement than a free label. Shipping sucks, new replacements don't.

I don't hear many local repair successes, 'authorized' repair centers or not.

while that may work..it didnt for me a a few years ago with an issue with a 4308

Denon's response was to ship it to Panurgy in NJ...after the local service center failed

I did..it came back up unrepaired..or should I say more accurately.. a new issue

At that point they did replace the unit

Not sure if Panurgy is still their "master service center"...but about 3 years ago it seems they wanted you to give Panurgy a shot at fixing it before they talked about replacement


Warren
post #3098 of 7861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe6P View Post

Mine is on top of the rack with no ventilation restrictions but I’m still not comfortable with the amount of heat radiating from the heat sinks.
I’ve also noticed if I make too many adjustments too fast the processor tends to slow down and possibly freeze.
Active cooling... All if my electronics have fans, everything is cool to the touch, including the hard drives inside my computer. Heat is the enemy. For your setup, I'd probably just get a computer massive fan (240mm) and put it on rubber stands horizontal on top your 4520, pull out that heat.

I have 4 140mm fans on the back of my rack with a 1" gap above my 4520, I can feel the breeze.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe6P View Post

That is a problem we’ll have to live with from now on since our receivers became computers.
The good news is we’ll eventually learn how to identify and replace individual cards instead of throwing the whole receiver away when it’s out of warranty.
I’m sure many of us started thinking we need to become more familiar with our receiver’s guts.
You think the 4520 is unreliable?
post #3099 of 7861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post

You think the 4520 is unreliable?

As reliable as my HP Slimline desktops; I love them when they work but I’ve replaced 4 motherboards ($100 each) on them so far caused by substandard cooling. Luckily I know how to do it myself. Some do what you’ve suggested adding cooling fans.
My problem is I can’t stand distortion noise. That’s one of the reasons I deported may PS3 from my home theatre to the family room.

On a side note, and speaking of noise, when is your Dreamliner going to fly again?
post #3100 of 7861
I sure hope my actively cooled 4520 is reliable, I plan on having it for a very long time.

I had my screenname long before Boeing, thank you very much! wink.gif
post #3101 of 7861
Hello yes Austin Jerry you are absolutely correct on the reversion to last calibration. I experienced this exact same business after the upgrade????? What I want to know is: after the upgrade I was playing a youtube over airplay and noticed airplay doesn't use the sub like everything else with speakers set to small after recal I am out of ideas any one know the answer?????????
post #3102 of 7861
Heat was one thing I was concerned about going into this purchase since I have very little clearance, probably less than an inch clearance to the glass shelf above it. Sides are pretty open, open in front, just a wall in back behind shelf. But I have not noticed much heat at all coming from the 4520 even with that little clearance and watching blu-rays at -5....never hear a fan running in it like I did the previous Onkyo 705....quite satisfied so far with the heat and hasn't been a problem yet. smile.gif
post #3103 of 7861
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post


Denon's response was to ship it to Panurgy in NJ...after the local service center failed

It’s like pulling teeth…
What irritates me the most are the excuses I hear from Denon to avoid support and warranty repair by picking and choosing who’s an authorized dealer and who’s not when we’re talking about a product made by Denon that is only a few months old.
Who cares were did I buy it from or who gave it to me as a present (i.e. my wife or one of my girlfriends)? I’m not asking them to fix my Onkyo or Yamaha for God’s sake.
That’s how I was treated when I contacted them concerning the vibration and humming noise issue. My eBay dealer insisted he’s an authorized Denon dealer but Denon couldn’t find his name on their list…
post #3104 of 7861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post

I had my screenname long before Boeing, thank you very much! wink.gif

You might be entitled for some royalty…
Check with Cousin Vinny cool.gif
post #3105 of 7861
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourbeef View Post

I have not noticed much heat at all coming from the 4520 even with that little clearance .

You won’t notice the heat if you kept it inside the unit until you start smelling the smoke… biggrin.gif
post #3106 of 7861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe6P View Post

You won’t notice the heat if you kept it inside the unit until you start smelling the smoke… biggrin.gif

nope, I can put my fingers on top of it to test it. Not hot at all. Totally satisfied with the heat issue cause there is no heat issue thus far.wink.gif
post #3107 of 7861
Quote:
Originally Posted by avatar9 View Post

Hello yes Austin Jerry you are absolutely correct on the reversion to last calibration. I experienced this exact same business after the upgrade????? What I want to know is: after the upgrade I was playing a youtube over airplay and noticed airplay doesn't use the sub like everything else with speakers set to small after recal I am out of ideas any one know the answer?????????

 

Interesting.  You are the only other person who has reported a similar experience with this particular FW upgrade.  Either to doesn't happen very frequently, or it happens a lot and people just aren't noticing the change.  I have been looking for reasons why not everyone is affected.  Are you by chance a user of Audyssey Pro?

post #3108 of 7861
No one else is memorizing there settings tongue.gif also i had to rerun audyssey after a bit of room rearranging so I got two distinct audyssey setups from before and after. I remembered the differences between these, I am sure no one else is even noticing the change or they don't have a previous audyssey setting to fall back on.
post #3109 of 7861
I am also having problems having to reload settings after a FW update as this operation screws up my Audyssey settings.
After I finally was able to get the latest upgrade this week, I noticed the sound had changed. I eventually realized that Audyssey wasn't enabled anymore. So I went in the menus to enable it but it wouldn't as it seemed to have no Audyssey config stored in. So I did a restore settings in the Audyssey menu (or whatever this option is called that recalls your previous Audyssey calibration, do not have it in front of me to confirm the name of the option) and then I was able to enable Audyssey. As I had no idea if this was really my last config prior to the update, I didn't take any chances and did a Load operation from the web GUI since I had saved it before performing the upgrade. So you guys are not alone getting these issues. ALWAYS SAVE BEFORE A FW UPGRADE! It'll save you trouble.
post #3110 of 7861
Quote:
Originally Posted by avatar9 View Post

No one else is memorizing there settings tongue.gif also i had to rerun audyssey after a bit of room rearranging so I got two distinct audyssey setups from before and after. I remembered the differences between these, I am sure no one else is even noticing the change or they don't have a previous audyssey setting to fall back on.

I wrote mine down. Besides, I only ran Audyssey once, so there is nothing further back for it to revert to after I update a FW, I guess.
post #3111 of 7861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post

Well, I just got my 4520 setup, coming from a 4311. My initial impressions:

4) Am frustrated at the odd height. The 4311 was exactly 3RU tall, with a vent plate above it, it fit in my rack perfectly. The 4520 is ~3.5RU tall, they don't make ~1.5RU vent plates.


No but they do make blank panels:

http://middleatlantic.com/rackac/panels/bpanels.htm

Denon also makes a rack mount kit for under $100. RMR450
post #3112 of 7861
After Audyssey ran, I noticed the only way to change the speaker xovers was go into manual setup? Changed the mains and center to 80hz from 60hz. Im assuming this is the correct way of doing this considering Im coming from a Onkyo, and there after setup was a tad different. Also by changing any settings under manual, im not voiding anything Audyssey previously corrected?

thanks
post #3113 of 7861
^Correct, all is fine, nothing is voided.
Much valuable info on similar topics to be had in the Audyssey FAQ.
post #3114 of 7861
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

^Correct, all is fine, nothing is voided.
Much valuable info on similar topics to be had in the Audyssey FAQ.
Thanks.

I'm not new to audussey just wanted to be sure how audussey and denon work together since this is my first denon.
post #3115 of 7861
Quote:
Originally Posted by sourbeef View Post

Heat was one thing I was concerned about going into this purchase since I have very little clearance, probably less than an inch clearance to the glass shelf above it. Sides are pretty open, open in front, just a wall in back behind shelf. But I have not noticed much heat at all coming from the 4520 even with that little clearance and watching blu-rays at -5....never hear a fan running in it like I did the previous Onkyo 705....quite satisfied so far with the heat and hasn't been a problem yet. smile.gif

Please note the installation instructions found within the owner's manual on page 3:

* For proper heat dispersal, do not install this unit in a confined space, such as a bookcase or similar enclosure.
• More than 12 in. (0.3 m) is recommended.
• Do not place any other equipment on this unit.
post #3116 of 7861
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Network Save and Load

This topic has been thoroughly discussed in other Denon threads, but I want to repeat it here in case we have any new Denon users.  The data in this post was collected during the recent setup of my 4520, so it is fresh.

Why use network load/save?  Because this functionality protects you from an inadvertent loss of your configuration information (including the Audyssey calibration) in the event of an anomaly such as a power glitch.  It also allows you to experiment with different configurations, always with the option to return to a previous know state.  Always save your configuration.

The network load/save functionality is accessed from the web interface.  Prior to doing a load or a save, open the 4520 menu, and then the network menu.  Change the network configuration from the default “Always On” to “Off in Standby”.  You can change this back later.

While in the network configuration menu, click Information and note the 4520’s network IP address.  Then go to your computer, open a browser window, and type in the 4520’s IP address.  When the web GUI appears, select “Setup”, and then “General”.  On the left side, click either “Load” or “Save”.

Network Save

15 seconds after clicking “Save” the 4520 will power down and display “Saving” on the front panel.  The save takes approximately 10 minutes, after which a message is returned to the browser window prompting you to save the configuration file to your local disk. Save the file, giving it a descriptive name, e.g. Config_mm-dd-yy.dat.  Once the configuration file has been saved, the 4520 will power back on.  One last step before you are finished:  check to see if the saved configuration file is a “good one”.  To do this, download a Hex editor program from the web (HxD is a good one, free at http://hxd.en.softonic.com/).  Using the hex editor, open the configuration file.  If it is a good save, you will see hex code in the file.  If it is a bad save, the file will be nothing but zeros.  Note:  leaving the network setting as “Always On” seems to increase the likelihood of a bad save.

Network Load

After clicking “Load”, browse your local hard drive to the saved configuration file, and then click “Load”.  The 4520 will power down with “Loading” displayed on the front panel.  A typical network load takes approximately 6.5 minutes.  After the load completed, the 4520 will power back on, and “Load Completed” will be displayed on the web screen.  Note:  if you get the web message “Load unsuccessful”, it’s probably because the network setting is “Always On”.

Austin, by using the network save funciton, Does the 4520 save my Audyssey calibration, meaning other than the distances, levels, etc.. The actual calibration it applied to each speaker? thanks.
post #3117 of 7861
Quote:
Originally Posted by nezff View Post

After Audyssey ran, I noticed the only way to change the speaker xovers was go into manual setup? Changed the mains and center to 80hz from 60hz. Im assuming this is the correct way of doing this considering Im coming from a Onkyo, and there after setup was a tad different. Also by changing any settings under manual, im not voiding anything Audyssey previously corrected?

thanks

Unfortunately, while lowering a crossover frequency doesn't disable Audyssey, it normally will cause a dip in your system's response between the crossover frequency selected by the receiver and your new lower crossover frequency.

(Don't forget that manufacturer specs were measured in an anechoic chamber, not in your room.)

Officially, Audyssey does not do any equalizations below the f3 point -- the low frequency where it measured a 3dB fall-off in the speaker's output. The crossover frequency chosen by the receiver is the lowest crossover frequency available to it which is above that f3 point. If you choose a lower crossover frequency, you'll be in the frequency region where the speaker outputs a lower sound level. You'll have lost some accuracy in the sound you hear.

However, there's been one report that some versions of Audyssey in some receivers do equalize to lower frequencies. You'll have to measure your system to find out for sure. Many people use REW to do this. See http://www.avsforum.com/t/1449924/simplified-rew-setup-and-use-usb-mic-hdmi-connection-including-measurement-techniques-and-how-to-interpret-graphs
post #3118 of 7861
Quote:
Originally Posted by nezff View Post

Austin, by using the network save funciton, Does the 4520 save my Audyssey calibration, meaning other than the distances, levels, etc.. The actual calibration it applied to each speaker? thanks.
Not Jerry, but yes it does.
post #3119 of 7861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Unfortunately, while lowering a crossover frequency doesn't disable Audyssey, it normally will cause a dip in your system's response between the crossover frequency selected by the receiver and your new lower crossover frequency...

Good pick-up. I misread his post as changing 60 to 80 as that is a very common thing to do-raise the crossover a bit to give the sub more work etc etc. That said, that's a pretty small freq range so the effect of loss of a some filters points there is probably not all that audible.

nezff, why lower the xover?
post #3120 of 7861
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Good pick-up. I misread his post as changing 60 to 80 as that is a very common thing to do-raise the crossover a bit to give the sub more work etc etc. That said, that's a pretty small freq range so the effect of loss of a some filters points there is probably not all that audible.

nezff, why lower the xover?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Unfortunately, while lowering a crossover frequency doesn't disable Audyssey, it normally will cause a dip in your system's response between the crossover frequency selected by the receiver and your new lower crossover frequency.

(Don't forget that manufacturer specs were measured in an anechoic chamber, not in your room.)

Officially, Audyssey does not do any equalizations below the f3 point -- the low frequency where it measured a 3dB fall-off in the speaker's output. The crossover frequency chosen by the receiver is the lowest crossover frequency available to it which is above that f3 point. If you choose a lower crossover frequency, you'll be in the frequency region where the speaker outputs a lower sound level. You'll have lost some accuracy in the sound you hear.

However, there's been one report that some versions of Audyssey in some receivers do equalize to lower frequencies. You'll have to measure your system to find out for sure. Many people use REW to do this. See http://www.avsforum.com/t/1449924/simplified-rew-setup-and-use-usb-mic-hdmi-connection-including-measurement-techniques-and-how-to-interpret-graphs

I never mentioned about lowering any xover. I said change it to 80hz FROM the 60hz that Audyssey set it. I know NOT to lower a xover, and why would I want to when I have dual 18 subs to take that duty.


On a side note, I noticed something very unusual. This has been discussed and discussed. I have run Audyssey XT32 multiple times with my Onkyo and never got this error. I also ran my first calibration with the Denon the other day and not received this error either. I got a phase error on my center channel. Im assuming it is the room tricking Audyssey, mainly because all my other speakers are all identical in xover build. None of my other speakers exhibited this error on first measurement.

I did check my speaker connections for giggles, and red to red and black to black.
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