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The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 126

post #3751 of 7666
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

"My impression (from reading, not as a 4520 owner) is that irt SQ it is pretty close. There may be subtle improvements for high-end systems when critical "audiphile" listening of very well-recorded material. Mebbe not. For the vast majority of 4311 owners I don't think this model is a breakthru must-have. As to whether it's worth the expense and trouble, it more or less comes down to the new features (vs loss of a few features) and what matters to you... If you have the speakers, Neo:X seems to be well regarded."

and

"The 4311 set a pretty high bar for SQ and the major breaktrough with DSPRC= XT32 is equal in both models."

You would be right, from what I have read. It gives some improvements, such as Neo:X, and if someone prefers that over Audyssey DSX then it will give them a SQ improvement. It contains other bells and whistles, but nothing really that would noticeably affect SQ in the real world. The cost of going from the 4311 to the 4250 is just too high for the gains. Denon did create an amazing device with the 4311.

For full disclosure, I am running an Onkyo 3010 and love it, no issues at all, and am a previous owner of a Denon 3808 and loved it too.
post #3752 of 7666
I'm in need of some help here.
I've read the owners manual and searched here and elsewhere to no avail.

Here's my problem. I can't get anything to play though network. I'm connected to the internet and I did the diagnosis through the network screen and everything checks out OK and I have the latest firmware.
I get all the local stations on screen, I was able to successfully set up a Pandora account and I was able to set up my SiriusXM account with the Denon. I can also connect with my iPhone through airplay.
BUT nothing will l play. I goes to the screen pictured below and just sits there doing nothing. It doesn't matter how long I leave it, nothing happens.

Any suggestions?

post #3753 of 7666
I'm wondering if there's a way to combine 2 of the sound modes on this avr? I'm pretty sure the answer is no but if there is a way I know that some bright guy (that would exclude me) on this forum will know how to do it.
I like Neo:X and what it does with the side & rear surrounds. There's much more content from the surrounds and it's (imho) a more involving experience. That being said I also like what DSX does for the front wides, but it seems to do that at the expense of the surrounds. When I'm in DSX mode the sound stage is wider and has more presence on the front but has less material coming at you from the sides, or so it seems to me anyway. So is there a way to combine DSX and Neo:X?
post #3754 of 7666
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougReim View Post

I'm wondering if there's a way to combine 2 of the sound modes on this avr? I'm pretty sure the answer is no but if there is a way I know that some bright guy (that would exclude me) on this forum will know how to do it.
I like Neo:X and what it does with the side & rear surrounds. There's much more content from the surrounds and it's (imho) a more involving experience. That being said I also like what DSX does for the front wides, but it seems to do that at the expense of the surrounds. When I'm in DSX mode the sound stage is wider and has more presence on the front but has less material coming at you from the sides, or so it seems to me anyway. So is there a way to combine DSX and Neo:X?

 

Unfortunately not. I too dislike the way DSX gives such a front-centric presentation. It does this because it derives its information from the front L and R channels and it decorrelates and reduces in volume, by as much as 3dB, the surround channels, so your observation is right on the money. I much prefer DTS Neo:X and (for heights only, Dolby PLIIz). Sorry buddy, but you will have to make a choice :(

post #3755 of 7666
Hi,
Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeantYnot View Post

Hugo,

Is the Marantz experiencing any other symptoms that the Denon has?

Yes they share similar problems. As with the 8801, I got exctly the same screens and problems, as Jerry has.

Another example is that when you have a 2 (declared) subs configuration (my case), on both products 8801/4520 the Network Interface has problems showing these both subs:

- on the 8801, only 1 sub is displayed (SW = Sub 1), still not corrected with the latest recent FW,
- on the 4520 both subs are displayed, but the distance of 1 of them is not correct (distance divided by a factor of 10), now this was in Januray when I still had my 4520, maybe it has been addressed since.

There was also something else, but I don't rememeber right now.

Hugo
post #3756 of 7666
Hi 4520 owners...

I am hoping someone may be able to help me with an issue I'm experiencing with my 4520ci. The on-screen display is not functioning for the "Network" feature to access Pandora, Internet Radio, Media Server, etc. When I say OSD, I mean the Denon GUI that appears on my TV.

I am able to access the "Setup" or other OSD menus when using the Cable/SAT function, but when I select "Network" or "Internet Radio" my screen goes dark.

Also, "Setup Assistant" doesn't appear on the TV either. Of course, it also worked in the past.

I am connected via-HDMI. Also, it has worked perfectly in the past.

Thanks so much for the help!
Edited by jlb500 - 3/23/13 at 2:08pm
post #3757 of 7666
The same thing happened to me. Check your video conversion. If its turned off the OSD will not work. Turn it on and you will see the OSD.
post #3758 of 7666
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Incollingo View Post

Think Twice Before Buying the 4520 or Any Denon Product

That sentence might throw some Denon fan boys into a defensive posture but since I have owned 5 Denon AV Receivers with my first being the 3805 and my current being the ever so problematic 4520, of which I will be getting a 4th replacement soon, I am going to share my experience with dealing with support so that those who are thinking about buying a Denon product have an understanding of what they will have to go through if a problem should arise with that product. This post is written by an American customer, so I'd also love to hear about some European experiences with Denon.

1st, Denon support at 201-762-6665 is located in Texas and the support people are very nice to deal with. I applaud Denon for not sending me to a call center in another country and employing Americans. However, these folks are only running through a list on a computer screen to troubleshoot your problem, and that is fine for 1st level technical support. When they run out of ideas they put you on hold and will go ask someone with a little more knowledge about what to try next. When they exhaust their options they simply say send it in for service. Here are my gripes about that:

- Sending a 30 to 50 lb. receiver via FedEx or UPS is expensive. In fact, to send the 4520 from PA to NJ, one state away will cost $50. Now keep in mind since my 4520 is so new I did not have to pay for any shipping.

- There is no way to talk to a higher level support person. For example, when I had problems with my 4306 many years ago I was emailed a program that flashed the unit using a straight cable to the RS232 port on the receiver. Since I have an IT background I have no problems trying more technical solutions. However, Denon must want to protect itself and refuses to allow customers to do more in depth troubleshooting.

- Why is it here in the US we have only one choice to update the firmware on all the new Denon receivers, that is over the Internet, where the European Denon site allows users with a valid serial number to download and flash the receiver via a USB stick. That is simply stupid.

2nd. When you call in for support and then proceed with the troubleshooting steps that fail, the support agent must then type up your request and forward it to upper management for review. So, it takes anywhere from 3-5 days before you get a response. For example, I called Denon on Monday to request my 4th unit. I had not heard back from them at all. I call today, 5 days later and ask to speak to one of these managers and am told he is busy on the phone getting my shipping authorization. C'mon Denon, there has got to be a process in place that streamlines the return process. Are you saying all cases are reviewed by management to then decide a course of action. It should be as simple as customer calls, unit defective, issue RMA and shipping label and then follow up with the customer.

To say I'm frustrated with this company is an understatement and has really soured my love of the brand. If the next 4520 I receive gives me any problems at all I will then request a refund and move on. This was my experience, your mileage may vary.

Jerry

Wow, 4rth unit! What exactly is going wrong with the units? Is it the same thing?
post #3759 of 7666
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo S View Post

Hi,
Yes they share similar problems. As with the 8801, I got exctly the same screens and problems, as Jerry has.

Another example is that when you have a 2 (declared) subs configuration (my case), on both products 8801/4520 the Network Interface has problems showing these both subs:

- on the 8801, only 1 sub is displayed (SW = Sub 1), still not corrected with the latest recent FW,
- on the 4520 both subs are displayed, but the distance of 1 of them is not correct (distance divided by a factor of 10), now this was in Januray when I still had my 4520, maybe it has been addressed since.

There was also something else, but I don't rememeber right now.

Hugo

Wow, im sorry to hear that. Several pages ago there was a debate as to the platform replication between the 8801 and 4520. With the exception of XLR inputs, they appear to share everyhing else (DACs, SNR, codecs, etc). I dont follow the 8801 forum that much, so im not sure if this distinction has been made over there. I suppose besides sharing the same platform, the bugs might be shared too.

If you come across any other issues, please let us know.
post #3760 of 7666
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Much better to purchase from BB who is an authorized Denon reseller rather than Buy.com smile.gif

I wonder if BB sells Parachutes. I’m about to take my first jump and love the idea of having a convenient local service in the most likely event it malfunctions… cool.gif
post #3761 of 7666
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

As noted on p. 42 OM and below, you must connect both the HDMI and Denon Link HD cables as the HD audio can only pass over the HDMI cable.


I have the following connections for the AVR-4520, DBT3313 combination.

Monitor HDMI output : Connected to AVR4520 Blu-Ray HDMI input #3 For Blu-Ray and DVD's
Amp HDMI Output : Connected to AVR4520 DVD HDMI input #2 - Digital option set to D.Link For CD's only, Stereo mode

Denon HD Link cable connected.

Dolby True HD discs always display correctly on the AVR -4520.

I have no issues with this setup.
post #3762 of 7666
Quote:
Originally Posted by tkroeker View Post

Wow, 4rth unit! What exactly is going wrong with the units? Is it the same thing?

These are all B stock keep in mind and Denon has paid shipping both ways in all cases.

1st unit sold from Accessories4less, official Denon B stock reseller. That unit was perfect for 2 weeks, then one day it just started turning on, then off continuously in a non-ending loop.

2nd unit came from Denon's official reburbisher, Panurgy, in New Jersey. It was DOA.

3rd unit from Panurgy, HDMI issues. This unit would randomly stop passing video and audio to my projector. Denon tried to say it was handshake issues and sequence of powering on devices, That had nothing to do with the problem. That unit is on it's way back and I await a 4th at this moment. My trusty 4306 is back in the rack.

Also, I just sent a year old 2112Ci to Panurgy for in-warranty repair, this unit I purchased new. The unit would not take a firmware update. It would hang on Authenticating, reboot, hang on UpdateRetry>>>>, then fail with a ConnectionFail25, which is why in my post I complained about not being able to do a simple firmware update with a usb stick. I had to pay to send it back for service and wait 2-3 weeks and I will forever be afraid to try a firmware update with that unit.

Also, I am not sure how many of you 4520 owners use the IOS app, but I use it all the time to control Zone 2 music and volume and have seen issues on all these receivers, even my 2112, where the receiver simply stops responding to the app's control function. This requires a power cycle of the receiver to fix the problem.

Jerry
post #3763 of 7666
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Well, I owned the 4311 for several years before upgrading to the 4520.  I still have the 4311 in my bedroom.  I agree with SoM.  Using superlatives to describe the sonic difference between the two AVR's, assuming everything else is the same, is a bit of an exaggeration.  You can't use NEO:x in the comparison, because that would be apples to oranges.  And I don't think I can actually hear the difference in the DAC's.

I prefer to say that both AVR's sound pretty darn good.

I can and will use NEO:x in comparison. Why would I cripple the 4520 to compare it to the 4311ci? Might as well stick with the 4311 if I'm not going to enjoy the new features. The Xt32 tuning sure sounds different to me. I used the same method I employed when I tuned the 4311. The subwoofers seem like they have more ooomph. I'm happy with the upgrade, I retired my 889 and gave it away. The 4311 is now in its place downstairs in the family room. May it live as long as the 889 did.
post #3764 of 7666
Quote:
Originally Posted by mo0sic View Post


I can and will use NEO:x in comparison. Why would I cripple the 4520 to compare it to the 4311ci?

 

I actually am not a big fan of NEO:x and rarely use it.  It was not one of the reasons I upgraded to the 4520.

post #3765 of 7666
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

You can't use NEO:x in the comparison, because that would be apples to oranges.

While I agree with the rest of what you said, I disagree with this portion. It would be the same as if you said you cannot use Audyssey room correction in a receiver when comparing it to one without Audyssey. Audyssey is one of the selling points and should be part of the comparison...same with Neo:X.

However, some people prefer DSX over Neo:X. For those people, Neo:X does not matter. I personally prefer Neo:X due to liking the way it separates the sounds vs how DSX does it.
post #3766 of 7666
^
True that the bottom line is really how pleasee you are with the AVR, with all its features, in comparison to another.

Neo:X's contribution, or lack of it, to a pleasing SQ is important to someone with the necessary speakers yet pretty irrelevant to someone who doesn't.

Usually when comparing AVRs I start with both in a common basic Mode like Direct, to hear if there are differences due to the basic preamp/amps. Then I compare with Audyssey engaged in a common Dolby mode. I know few people will take such a time consuming approach. But that's why I don't find a post that consists of something like "the 4520 sounds so much richer than the 4311" to be of much help.
Edited by SoundofMind - 3/24/13 at 9:19am
post #3767 of 7666
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post


While I agree with the rest of what you said, I disagree with this portion. It would be the same as if you said you cannot use Audyssey room correction in a receiver when comparing it to one without Audyssey. Audyssey is one of the selling points and should be part of the comparison...same with Neo:X.

However, some people prefer DSX over Neo:X. For those people, Neo:X does not matter. I personally prefer Neo:X due to liking the way it separates the sounds vs how DSX does it.

 

What I am hearing you say is that the 4520, when playing NEO:x, has better sound quality than the 4311.  While I don't doubt that you prefer the sound of NEO:x, it is like me saying that I prefer the sound quality of the 4311 because I don't like NEO:x. 

 

My opinion, FWIW, is that when the playing field is level (both calibrated with XT32, but with special modes like DSX and NEO:x turned off), both AVR's sound quite similar.

post #3768 of 7666
Quote:
Originally Posted by mo0sic View Post

...The Xt32 tuning sure sounds different to me. I used the same method I employed when I tuned the 4311. The subwoofers seem like they have more ooomph. I'm happy with the upgrade...
As far as we know, XT32 is identical in both models. I have to conclude that any improvement you attribute to that is due to other factors. Perhaps more fortuitous mic positions, if all other settings are equal.
post #3769 of 7666
Well guys, I took the plunge and am now an owner of a 4520. I will be getting around to hooking it up in the next few days. smile.gif
post #3770 of 7666
Quote:
Originally Posted by SergeantYnot View Post

Well guys, I took the plunge and am now an owner of a 4520. I will be getting around to hooking it up in the next few days. smile.gif
Yep, me too! I ordered today. Hope to get it by next weekend.
post #3771 of 7666
I've had mine for a couple of weeks with limited amount of time to take advantage of all of the features or configure everything. I wanted to ask member here their advice on how to set it up and what limitations I might have.

My configuration;

- 7:1 home theater setup in my family room
- two speakers in my living room for music listening
- two speakers outside on the patio (waterproof variety) for music listening
- two speakers by my pool (those rock speaker types so nothing fancy) for music listening

All audio/video connections come together where my 4520 is housed in the family room

I also have a older Denon 3300 I could use for it's amps as I realize with the combined system I have I've exhausted the capabilities internal to the 4520. I would like to use all the the sources connected to the 4520 (network, iPad/iPod, CD, etc ) in a zone 2 or zone 3 configuration, etc. I've never use a separate AVR in either pre-out/pre-in modes so I'm not certain how to set up the configuration in either AVR.

....or maybe I will just have two separate systems?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
post #3772 of 7666
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo S View Post

Hi,
Yes they share similar problems. As with the 8801, I got exctly the same screens and problems, as Jerry has.

Another example is that when you have a 2 (declared) subs configuration (my case), on both products 8801/4520 the Network Interface has problems showing these both subs:

- on the 8801, only 1 sub is displayed (SW = Sub 1), still not corrected with the latest recent FW,
- on the 4520 both subs are displayed, but the distance of 1 of them is not correct (distance divided by a factor of 10), now this was in Januray when I still had my 4520, maybe it has been addressed since.

There was also something else, but I don't rememeber right now.

Hugo

thats not good news...as I definitely have my eye on the Marantz 8801 replacing my Onkyo 5508 preamp

In fact I had told myself..if/when the Marantz got to $2500 then the Onkyo was being sold

Oh well...I have 2.5 years of warranty left on the Onkyo( with the factory extension I bought)...so maybe in another year or so the Marantz prices will have down and the bugs might be worked out

or..A4L will have a stack of refurbs..lol


Warren
post #3773 of 7666
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Incollingo View Post

These are all B stock keep in mind and Denon has paid shipping both ways in all cases.

1st unit sold from Accessories4less, official Denon B stock reseller. That unit was perfect for 2 weeks, then one day it just started turning on, then off continuously in a non-ending loop.

2nd unit came from Denon's official reburbisher, Panurgy, in New Jersey. It was DOA.

3rd unit from Panurgy, HDMI issues. This unit would randomly stop passing video and audio to my projector. Denon tried to say it was handshake issues and sequence of powering on devices, That had nothing to do with the problem. That unit is on it's way back and I await a 4th at this moment. My trusty 4306 is back in the rack.

Also, I just sent a year old 2112Ci to Panurgy for in-warranty repair, this unit I purchased new. The unit would not take a firmware update. It would hang on Authenticating, reboot, hang on UpdateRetry>>>>, then fail with a ConnectionFail25, which is why in my post I complained about not being able to do a simple firmware update with a usb stick. I had to pay to send it back for service and wait 2-3 weeks and I will forever be afraid to try a firmware update with that unit.

Also, I am not sure how many of you 4520 owners use the IOS app, but I use it all the time to control Zone 2 music and volume and have seen issues on all these receivers, even my 2112, where the receiver simply stops responding to the app's control function. This requires a power cycle of the receiver to fix the problem.

Jerry

First off...I must say you sound like a VERY patient individual

I went on about 1/2 the excursion you have done ...except with Onkyo...and I have to say while I had two units replaced it was not a good experience

On another note I had a horrible experience with Panugy a few years ago with a 4308 I had at the time

One would think that the B stock units would have had the "bugs" fixed


Warren
post #3774 of 7666
^perhaps Denon is having him be the sole beta tester for the 4520 tongue.gif
post #3775 of 7666
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

What I am hearing you say is that the 4520, when playing NEO:x, has better sound quality than the 4311.  While I don't doubt that you prefer the sound of NEO:x, it is like me saying that I prefer the sound quality of the 4311 because I don't like NEO:x. 

My opinion, FWIW, is that when the playing field is level (both calibrated with XT32, but with special modes like DSX and NEO:x turned off), both AVR's sound quite similar.

Kinda got it right - with the exception that the 4520 can play every mode the 4311 can play but the 4311 cannot play every mode the 4520 can play. If you happen to not use any of those extra modes (such as Neo:X) then there will be no real difference between them. If you prefer Neo:X over the other modes, then the 4520 will be a superior unit since the 4311 cannot play the mode you prefer. To put it in terms of food, think of an AVR like an ice cream dispenser. The 4311 can dispense every flavor except strawberry while the 4520 can dispense all of them including strawberry. If you like chocolate ice cream you will not notice any real difference between the machines and will therefor will be much happier with the cheaper machine (4311). If you prefer strawberry ice cream, the machine without it is not (4311) as good as the one with (4520).

While I personally like Neo:X (which is why I bought the Onkyo 3010), I do not think it is worth the extra cost over the 4311...but it is an improvement in SQ if you find you prefer how Neo:X does 9.x/11.x over how DTS does 9.x/11.x.


EDIT: I agree with you. When you turn off all the extra things they should sound the same. It is those extra things that make one sound better (or not better) than the other. For you, the 4311 is the far better choice due to price alone, since you do prefer Neo:X and that is one of the big things the 4520 has over the 4311. There are other things, but (IMO) I find them to not be compelling reasons to buy it.
post #3776 of 7666
Quick update on BB. I told them the HDMI board was probably the issue. They took the receiver back no questions asked. Didn't test it nor did they look in the box. None in stock (no Magnolia) so they're shipping another one out this week. Love em' or hate em' but their B&M presence came in handy this time.
post #3777 of 7666
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo S View Post

Hi,
Yes they share similar problems. As with the 8801, I got exctly the same screens and problems, as Jerry has.

Another example is that when you have a 2 (declared) subs configuration (my case), on both products 8801/4520 the Network Interface has problems showing these both subs:

- on the 8801, only 1 sub is displayed (SW = Sub 1), still not corrected with the latest recent FW,
- on the 4520 both subs are displayed, but the distance of 1 of them is not correct (distance divided by a factor of 10), now this was in Januray when I still had my 4520, maybe it has been addressed since.

There was also something else, but I don't rememeber right now.

Hugo

Interesting. My Onkyo 3010 does not have problems showing or properly calibrating the two subs. I am not saying my test group of 1 unit is the be all, though. smile.gif
post #3778 of 7666
Quote:
Originally Posted by NET1 View Post

Quick update on BB. I told them the HDMI board was probably the issue. They took the receiver back no questions asked. Didn't test it nor did they look in the box. None in stock (no Magnolia) so they're shipping another one out this week. Love em' or hate em' but their B&M presence came in handy this time.

With the rise of states forcing sales tax for online sales, B&M stores are again becoming competitive. And with the added feature of easier and cheaper returns, I find myself going to them more often nowadays.
post #3779 of 7666
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

With the rise of states forcing sales tax for online sales, B&M stores are again becoming competitive. And with the added feature of easier and cheaper returns, I find myself going to them more often nowadays.

I wound up going to a local authorized dealer (20 minute drive). With all the potential issues at hand, I just cannot afford to be without a unit for a week or two. What shocked the heck out of me is that they matched every online AD I mentioned, and even took a loss on tax to match it. Talk about competition. Ultimately though, it will be a sad day if congress passes a reform forcing sales tax for Internet purchases.
post #3780 of 7666
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Incollingo View Post

These are all B stock keep in mind and Denon has paid shipping both ways in all cases.

1st unit sold from Accessories4less, official Denon B stock reseller. That unit was perfect for 2 weeks, then one day it just started turning on, then off continuously in a non-ending loop.

2nd unit came from Denon's official reburbisher, Panurgy, in New Jersey. It was DOA.

3rd unit from Panurgy, HDMI issues. This unit would randomly stop passing video and audio to my projector. Denon tried to say it was handshake issues and sequence of powering on devices, That had nothing to do with the problem. That unit is on it's way back and I await a 4th at this moment. My trusty 4306 is back in the rack.

Also, I just sent a year old 2112Ci to Panurgy for in-warranty repair, this unit I purchased new. The unit would not take a firmware update. It would hang on Authenticating, reboot, hang on UpdateRetry>>>>, then fail with a ConnectionFail25, which is why in my post I complained about not being able to do a simple firmware update with a usb stick. I had to pay to send it back for service and wait 2-3 weeks and I will forever be afraid to try a firmware update with that unit.

Also, I am not sure how many of you 4520 owners use the IOS app, but I use it all the time to control Zone 2 music and volume and have seen issues on all these receivers, even my 2112, where the receiver simply stops responding to the app's control function. This requires a power cycle of the receiver to fix the problem.

Jerry
Jerry one of the problems could be shipping itself. If you ever watch any videos of these guys at these shipping companies on YT you will see these guys do not care if it says fragile! Sensitive electronics on a truck with a guy that does not care is not going to end well. Also buying B stock is a gamble

I will say that half of the stuff I buy new fails!! I will also say that the best products I have owned to date have been apple products. Flawless!!! My kid did have a problem once years ago and the return procedure was incredible. He had a new ipod in a day!! Knock on wood, so far all my Denon products have been good to me, I am really hoping that my new 4520 proves to me why I continue to use Denon AVR's.
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