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The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 150

post #4471 of 7685
Thanks for the input. When I disable native mode the HR34 outputs 720p all the time instead of 1080p. This means that a 1080i signal will first be converted to 720p before being converted to 1080p by the 4520. Regardless of how good the scalers are, this is not an ideal scenario. I will try to find the time to do an a/b comparison, but something like this will undoubtedly bug me until I figure out how to fix it.
post #4472 of 7685
Why? Especially if there's no real noticeable difference in picture quality.
post #4473 of 7685
Have you looked in the menu section Display/TV Resolutions? The behavior you describe sounds like you don't have 1080i and 1080p set up as supported resolutions. I agree that what you describe would not be desirable, but that is not the way the DVR should work.
post #4474 of 7685
I never use the upscalers in AVRs/AVPs because I see no need whatsoever. I wish they would invest the money and effort on things that counts, and help reduce the operating temperature at the same time. The upscalers built in the media players and even those in TVs are just fine.
post #4475 of 7685
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tachy View Post

I have looked at the Standout Design stuff before. They appear to have some nice choices. One of my concerns was that I did not think the front to back shelf measurement would comfortably fit the 4520 without leaving the back off. (Unless they sell extended backs like the salamanders do)

I didn't order them but it appears to me from the website that that the fan vented backs extend an additional several inches back. If you want the clean look of an enclosed cab and to maintain good ventilation it's really not that difficult and doesn't require the fancy fans/extended backs.

Like yourself, I worried and thought through the heat thing, but the cabs are well-designed to vent. They have a vent slot cut into the front bottom of the cabinet. Even the the standard glass shelves do not completely fill the space so there's a gap at front and back to allow air circulation. Edit: My cab did not come with the vented glass shelves but should I have needed them they're available to order. There is also an additional inexpensive option of ordering grill cloth instead of smoked glass doors but I found that with the backs off that's unnecessary.

Basically order a basic model and just leave the backs off and there's plenty of shelf depth and airflow. I placed the on the top shelf and the small, quiet fan blows upward pushing all the hot air up and out the open back. I put the hot little cable box on the top shelf of the other side. Standout CS is very nice and friendly. Plus they are a Made in America company and have a 10% off sale right now. smile.gif
Edited by SoundofMind - 5/18/13 at 1:40pm
post #4476 of 7685
A complete noob here. When I play a bluray via ps3, denon displays the audio setting as 'Multi Channel'. I was under the impression that what ever the audio codec that is displayed on the bluray [dts hd], denon is suppose to display the same. Am I loosing any quality in the audio?
post #4477 of 7685
No lose in quality, although you currently have the PS3 set to do the decoding from DD/DTS --> multi channel PCM (ie. LPCM mode) which is why the AVR is displaying "Multi Ch IN" as the audio has already been decoded and the AVR has no idea of the original compressed format . If you want to see the compressed audio codec on the AVR's display and let the AVR do the decoding (as long as you have a PS3 slim or super slim), set the PS3 to "bitstream".
post #4478 of 7685
I ran audyssey today on my new 4520 and noticed the bass was quite subdued afterwards so I checked the speaker levels under the speakers -> manual setup -> levels -> test tone and saw that the sub was only measuring ~65db on my radio shack digital spl meter (slow C). The other speakers were all around 75db. Audyssey/Denon set the sub level to -5.5db and I had to increase it to +3 or so to get it to match 75db with the denon tones.

Is it ok to increase the sub level this much? I've read about people changing the levels after audyssey but also read you shouldn't use the internal test tones to set levels as it bypasses audyssey and doesn't reflect the actual levels. I followed the audyssey measuring guide so don't think anything was wrong with my measuring.
post #4479 of 7685
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob4321 View Post

but also read you shouldn't use the internal test tones to set levels as it bypasses audyssey and doesn't reflect the actual levels. I followed the audyssey measuring guide so don't think anything was wrong with my measuring.

I tried checking the levels using the Avia II disc test tones and got the same result. Had to increase sub trim from -5.5 to +3 to get the sub level to match the other channels.
post #4480 of 7685
TBH, it was ok with the subs at -3 less than the rest, unless you like the bass a little over cooked? Dynamic EQ beefs up the bass, and you may get a lot of bass, although I may be in the minority here... I like to be able to hear at 70...
post #4481 of 7685
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob4321 View Post

I ran audyssey today on my new 4520 and noticed the bass was quite subdued afterwards so I checked the speaker levels under the speakers -> manual setup -> levels -> test tone and saw that the sub was only measuring ~65db on my radio shack digital spl meter (slow C). The other speakers were all around 75db. Audyssey/Denon set the sub level to -5.5db and I had to increase it to +3 or so to get it to match 75db with the denon tones.

Is it ok to increase the sub level this much? I've read about people changing the levels after audyssey but also read you shouldn't use the internal test tones to set levels as it bypasses audyssey and doesn't reflect the actual levels. I followed the audyssey measuring guide so don't think anything was wrong with my measuring.

Sure. You can adjust speaker and/or sub volume levels to suit your "preference" noting that you are moving away from "reference" by doing so, although it is your setup so "preference" is okay. Although some prefer to bump up the sub volume to a volume that suits their "preference", it's generally recommended that you refrain from doing so for at least 2-3 weeks after first running Audyssey to see if you can adjust to the "reference" level the mixer intended, which many do adjust to after being accustomed to the "bloated" bass (believing that to be better sounding) from an older and non-Audyssey AVR.
post #4482 of 7685
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob4321 View Post

I tried checking the levels using the Avia II disc test tones and got the same result. Had to increase sub trim from -5.5 to +3 to get the sub level to match the other channels.
In addition to jd's response, you could take a look at the Audyssey FAQ F4 and 5 on sub levels for an even more indepth treatment of the topic

http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1/51750#user_f4
http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1/51750#user_f5
post #4483 of 7685
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob4321 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob4321 View Post

but also read you shouldn't use the internal test tones to set levels as it bypasses audyssey and doesn't reflect the actual levels. I followed the audyssey measuring guide so don't think anything was wrong with my measuring.

I tried checking the levels using the Avia II disc test tones and got the same result. Had to increase sub trim from -5.5 to +3 to get the sub level to match the other channels.

 

I wouldn’t place too much reliance on a RatShack SPL meter for the very low frequencies. Why would you think it is more accurate than the Audyssey mic and algorithm?

 

Now that you have increased the bass level by 7.5dB (an incredibly huge amount of extra work for the sub amp to have to do), does the bass sound 'better' to you, or does it sound 'overblown' or 'boomy'?

 

Also, when using the Avia test disc, you did have Dynamic EQ (and DynamicVolume if you use it) disabled I assume? 

post #4484 of 7685
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by rob4321 View Post

I ran audyssey today on my new 4520 and noticed the bass was quite subdued afterwards so I checked the speaker levels under the speakers -> manual setup -> levels -> test tone and saw that the sub was only measuring ~65db on my radio shack digital spl meter (slow C). The other speakers were all around 75db. Audyssey/Denon set the sub level to -5.5db and I had to increase it to +3 or so to get it to match 75db with the denon tones.

Is it ok to increase the sub level this much? I've read about people changing the levels after audyssey but also read you shouldn't use the internal test tones to set levels as it bypasses audyssey and doesn't reflect the actual levels. I followed the audyssey measuring guide so don't think anything was wrong with my measuring.

Sure. You can adjust speaker and/or sub volume levels to suit your "preference" noting that you are moving away from "reference" by doing so, although it is your setup so "preference" is okay. Although some prefer to bump up the sub volume to a volume that suits their "preference", it's generally recommended that you refrain from doing so for at least 2-3 weeks after first running Audyssey to see if you can adjust to the "reference" level the mixer intended, which many do adjust to after being accustomed to the "bloated" bass (believing that to be better sounding) from an older and non-Audyssey AVR.

 

+1. rob4321 might care to check out this FAQ answer on that very subject:

 

f)5.    Since I ran Audyssey everything sounds great - but where has my bass gone?

 

Ooops - I failed to spot SoM had already posted the link.

post #4485 of 7685
Thanks for the info.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Sure. You can adjust speaker and/or sub volume levels to suit your "preference" noting that you are moving away from "reference" by doing so, although it is your setup so "preference" is okay.

So reference is to have the sub set 7-10db lower then all other speakers (assuming spl meter isn't measuring 10db low with sub tones)? I have a cross spectrum calibrated umm-6 I can check the levels with instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I wouldn’t place too much reliance on a RatShack SPL meter for the very low frequencies. Why would you think it is more accurate than the Audyssey mic and algorithm?

Now that you have increased the bass level by 7.5dB (an incredibly huge amount of extra work for the sub amp to have to do), does the bass sound 'better' to you, or does it sound 'overblown' or 'boomy'?

Also, when using the Avia test disc, you did have Dynamic EQ (and DynamicVolume if you use it) disabled I assume? 

I assumed the spl meter would be off a little bit, but by that much? It was 7-10db low with all the different sub tones from the Denon, Avia, Avia II and DVE discs.

I haven't played anything yet other than Avia so can't say how it sounds yet. Dynamic EQ and Vol were off when checking levels.
post #4486 of 7685
Quote:
Originally Posted by rob4321 View Post

Thanks for the info.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Sure. You can adjust speaker and/or sub volume levels to suit your "preference" noting that you are moving away from "reference" by doing so, although it is your setup so "preference" is okay.

So reference is to have the sub set 7-10db lower then all other speakers (assuming spl meter isn't measuring 10db low with sub tones)? I have a cross spectrum calibrated umm-6 I can check the levels with instead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I wouldn’t place too much reliance on a RatShack SPL meter for the very low frequencies. Why would you think it is more accurate than the Audyssey mic and algorithm?

Now that you have increased the bass level by 7.5dB (an incredibly huge amount of extra work for the sub amp to have to do), does the bass sound 'better' to you, or does it sound 'overblown' or 'boomy'?

Also, when using the Avia test disc, you did have Dynamic EQ (and DynamicVolume if you use it) disabled I assume? 

I assumed the spl meter would be off a little bit, but by that much? It was 7-10db low with all the different sub tones from the Denon, Avia, Avia II and DVE discs.

I haven't played anything yet other than Avia so can't say how it sounds yet. Dynamic EQ and Vol were off when checking levels.

 

I think I’d take some measurements with REW and the calibrated UMM-6 before coming to any firm conclusions. I can definitely say that Audyssey calculates the bass SPLs correctly in my own system and I never feel any need to run the bass 'hot' (except when demoing the room-shaking capabilities of dual Seaton Submersives to incredulous friends of course).  I have, in the past, run my subs hot (before the SubMs) but always in the end settled back down to the calibrated Reference level setting.

post #4487 of 7685

I normally see a slightly lower dB reading for the sub channel (2-3dB, but never 10dB), but rarely adjust the levels upwards.

 

In addition for my penchant for measurements, I have found that it is useful to have several "go-to" recordings for assessing whether something is wrong with the bass levels.  In my case, I always use a music source that I am so familiar with, so that I can immediately tell if is something is wrong.  Maybe it's just me, but I find it easier to conclude whether a string bass sounds correct, rather than an exploding building...

post #4488 of 7685
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

I normally see a slightly lower dB reading for the sub channel (2-3dB, but never 10dB), but rarely adjust the levels upwards.

 

In addition for my penchant for measurements, I have found that it is useful to have several "go-to" recordings for assessing whether something is wrong with the bass levels.  In my case, I always use a music source that I am so familiar with, so that I can immediately tell if is something is wrong.  Maybe it's just me, but I find it easier to conclude whether a string bass sounds correct, rather than an exploding building...

 

Same here - even though, as you know, I don't use my HT for (serious) music listening, I always use bass-heavy music content to subjectively evaluate the bass. I tend to use familiar CDs by Stanley Clarke a lot. They are only good down to the open E frequency of the bass guitar of course -- about 40Hz -- but they seem to give me a good handle on bass quality. I also use Michael Bay's Transformers III movie for my subjective evaluation of splosions etc. One day I will watch that movie all the way through I swear :) 

post #4489 of 7685
Thanks guys. I'll run some REW tests and maybe rerun audyssey again to see if it sets it the same.
post #4490 of 7685
I just got the 4520 installed and is working on the sound calibration and set up. I connected 3 sources: Bluray, Cable/TV, and media player. For some reason, I could not get the volume bar display on the screen when I played the media source. However, when I played from Bluray and Cable/TV, the volume bar was displayed fine. Is this a set up issue? I appreciate any comment to rectify this issue. Thanks.
post #4491 of 7685
Thread Starter 
Did you maybe disable the Video Conversion setting? It needs to be on for graphic overlays.
post #4492 of 7685
Hi Guys, What is the best price on the 4250ci you have seen lately? I got one for $2200 at Best Buy with discount. Thanks.
post #4493 of 7685
Quote:
Originally Posted by mroehricht View Post

Hi Guys, What is the best price on the 4250ci you have seen lately? I got one for $2200 at Best Buy with discount. Thanks.


call the fine folks at AVS - worth your time
post #4494 of 7685
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjslegacy View Post

call the fine folks at AVS - worth your time

Forgive my ignorance. How would I find their contact info? Not familiar with anything other than this forum. Thanks.
post #4495 of 7685
Quote:
Originally Posted by mroehricht View Post

Forgive my ignorance. How would I find their contact info? Not familiar with anything other than this forum. Thanks.


Mike is great to work with:

Mike Garrett, AV Science Sales
Call Me: 585-671-2968
Email Me: Mike@AVScience.com
post #4496 of 7685
For people with Audyssey XT32, are you generally happy with the auto sub EQ'ing, or do you have another method to calibrate your subs?
post #4497 of 7685
Quote:
Originally Posted by mroehricht View Post

Hi Guys, What is the best price on the 4250ci you have seen lately? I got one for $2200 at Best Buy with discount. Thanks.

Is that the total price before or after tax?
post #4498 of 7685
post #4499 of 7685
There's no reason to consider a refurb when avscience.com (authorized reseller) can provide a new in box for the same price. Give Mike or Craig a "call" for their best price although note ... they can't keep them in stock long as they're going so fast so pick up that phone NOW .... Craig is available until 7:30pm EST M-F.

Craig Peer, AV Science Sales. Direct Line - 585-671-2972
I'm available 8:30am - 4:30pm PST, Monday - Friday
Email me at craig@avscience.com
http://shop.avscience.com/
Yes, we sell Home Theater gear right here at AVS !!
Projectors, SVS subs, speakers, screens - we have it all !
We have JVC RS4810's...
post #4500 of 7685
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

There's no reason to consider a refurb when avscience.com (authorized reseller) can provide a new in box for the same price. Give Mike or Craig a "call" for their best price although note ... they can't keep them in stock long as they're going so fast so pick up that phone NOW .... Craig is available until 7:30pm EST M-F.

Craig Peer, AV Science Sales. Direct Line - 585-671-2972
I'm available 8:30am - 4:30pm PST, Monday - Friday
Email me at craig@avscience.com
http://shop.avscience.com/
Yes, we sell Home Theater gear right here at AVS !!
Projectors, SVS subs, speakers, screens - we have it all !
We have JVC RS4810's...

Man JD you make a good salesman lol!
Seriously tho I am considering a projector setup and 4520. Not till January tho. I'll check him out then. Another sub hsu sub to go dual but if the price is right then how could I not get it!
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