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The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 17

post #481 of 7688
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post


I use the XPA-3 with the 4520. Perhaps my hearing is not as sensitive as Pete's, but it sounds great to me, for both music and HT. I'm not a gamer, so I can't comment on that.


I have been giving this setup serious consideration also.  I have read (mostly in the Audyssey thread) that in many cases the XPA-3 makes only a subtle difference, often dependent on which speakers are being used.  In my case, I am filling a large HT room (20' wide by 30' deep) with large DefTech towers across the front (BP7002's and a CLR 2500), plus Heights, Wides, Surrounds and Rears.  Currently, I am using a left over Pioneer 110w AVR as the amp for the Heights.  It seems to work fine, but I keep thinking I might be better served by an XPA-3 taking over the 3 large fronts and letting the Denon 4520 breathe even easier on the remaining 8 speakers.  While it's easy to suggest previewing, in reality this is hard to do.  I will have to check Emotiva's return policy on that possibility. 

 

As for the Dialogue Enhancer - I have the same experience describes by AJ.  My center channel has always sounded good and the Enhancer in my system simply seems to make the dialogue louder.  Like LFC, I can see how it would benefit those whose speakers are struggling or less clear, but in my system both features are unnecessary.  This doesn't diminish their value overall, just relative to my needs.  LFC seems like a very decent solution, but for a problem I don't have. Same for Dialogue Enhance.

post #482 of 7688
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

In room response. And the OP asked for a stereo measurement. I can take a pre-out measurement, and measure the center channel as well if that would be useful.

Sure. That would provide a better comparison of the two settings.
post #483 of 7688
Thread Starter 
AJ - If you are so inclined, I would like to see a pre-out measurement of the center channel with all processing (e.g. Audyssey EQ) disabled so we can see precisely what is happening. Also with a wider frequency band, since it seems from your measurements that the freq range affected is fairly broad.
post #484 of 7688
To add to the discussion: I have a circa-1993 Sony STR-GX99ES that will also drive my DefTech 7001c towers to ear-splitting levels with incredible sound quality, and it also weighs a ton. But it only has Dolby Pro-Logic (I). Microprocessors get smaller and lighter yet more capable with time. I don't know why anyone would confuse "build quality" with weight.

My first home computer was also a 486DX2-66 with a whopping 340MB hard drive and 128K RAM. It also weighed a ton and had "awesome build quality." No way would I put it up against my quad core i7. But the keyboard that came with that Crapard Bell computer was awesome!
post #485 of 7688
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

AJ - If you are so inclined, I would like to see a pre-out measurement of the center channel with all processing (e.g. Audyssey EQ) disabled so we can see precisely what is happening. Also with a wider frequency band, since it seems from your measurements that the freq range affected is fairly broad.

 

Sure.  I'm involved in a project right now to install some new bass traps, after which I need to run a fresh calibration, and then I will take the additional measurements.  The traps are proving somewhat difficult to mount.

post #486 of 7688
I'm curious about the LFC feature and it was interesting to see the REW measurement that Jerry posted showing what it was doing. Has anyone performed any basic, casual listening tests from an adjoining room or another area the house with and without LFC enabled to see if it actually does what it says it will do?
post #487 of 7688
post #488 of 7688
Hi,

A interesting review of the 4520 by areadvd.de (in German).

Hugo
post #489 of 7688
^^^

some good pics of the guts there... smile.gif thanks...

the "review" is pretty much "standard" stuff (although it's always amusing to see what google translate comes up with sometimes... tongue.gif )...
post #490 of 7688
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
Yup ... flint350 did ....
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1430049/the-official-denon-avr-4520ci-thread/0_100#post_22437521

Wow somehow I totally missed that post.redface.gif

Thanks JD and also to flint350 for all of your help in answering us non-owners curiousities. I was at ABT on Sat. and they had a floor model at a very tempting price, but thankfully common sense took over and I was able to walk away. I think the only feature that I would really use over my 4311 is the matrix switch.
post #491 of 7688
^^^

that danged instapreview has my attention, in addition to the matrix switch...
post #492 of 7688
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

AJ - If you are so inclined, I would like to see a pre-out measurement of the center channel with all processing (e.g. Audyssey EQ) disabled so we can see precisely what is happening. Also with a wider frequency band, since it seems from your measurements that the freq range affected is fairly broad.

 

I have to admit, this seems like a better way to look at Dialog Enhancer.  Measurements are for the center channel pre-out, set to PLII Cinema, Audyssey off, no smoothing.  The step-by-step increase is still 2dB.

 


Edited by AustinJerry - 12/21/12 at 9:37am
post #493 of 7688
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo S View Post

Hi,

A interesting review of the 4520 by areadvd.de (in German).

Hugo

It's too bad the analog preamp boards are buried where they're hard to see. People who are interested in the Marantz AV8801 would very much like to know what the differences (if any) are between them. It's pretty much a foregone conclusion that the 8801 will have the same digital boards, except for minor differences in the firmware (like the logo). I doubt that any of the reviewers will be willing to disassemble either piece of equipment that far, though.

(Yes, I'm a glass-is-half-empty type of guy. smile.gif )
post #494 of 7688
Thread Starter 
@ Jerry -- awesome, thank you smile.gif Interesting to see that the "hump" is centered between 1kHz-2kHz, which seems rather high for dialogue.

EDIT - just had a thought... Jerry, when you measured LFC did you measure the sub pre-out or the in-room response? If it was in-room, it seems like you should repeat the measurement at the pre-out with Audyssey disabled to isolate the effect of LFC....
Edited by batpig - 10/23/12 at 3:05pm
post #495 of 7688
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

@ Jerry -- awesome, thank you smile.gif Interesting to see that the "hump" is centered between 1kHz-2kHz, which seems rather high for dialogue.
EDIT - just had a thought... Jerry, when you measured LFC did you measure the sub pre-out or the in-room response? If it was in-room, it seems like you should repeat the measurement at the pre-out with Audyssey disabled to isolate the effect of LFC....

 

Too late today, the REW kit has been stowed, and the class of cabernet is on the side table....

post #496 of 7688
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post


It's too bad the analog preamp boards are buried where they're hard to see. People who are interested in the Marantz AV8801 would very much like to know what the differences (if any) are between them. It's pretty much a foregone conclusion that the 8801 will have the same digital boards, except for minor differences in the firmware (like the logo). I doubt that any of the reviewers will be willing to disassemble either piece of equipment that far, though.
(Yes, I'm a glass-is-half-empty type of guy. smile.gif )

 

Seldon, NFW I'm going to start taking my 4520 apart....     ;)

post #497 of 7688
Excited, tomorrow is the big day, DELIVERY!!!
post #498 of 7688
UGH!

I have no idea what has happened, but for some reason my HDMI-Control / ARC with my LG LM6700 has started acting all wonky...

Long story short...I had it programed perfectly:

1. ARC "ON", Power Options "ON" & "Simple-Link" ON on the TV

2. All controls for ARC on AMP set correctly, with Power Option on set to "Video" sources

For the last 1 1/2 weeks, I could turn on my TV, have Pass-Through HDMI work correctly and when I wanted TV Audio, just select "External Speakers" from the TV which would turn ON the AMP and switch to TV Audio. The TV remotes volume would then control the AMP, and when turning OFF the TV, so would the AMP.

Next, when turning back ON the TV later, it would NOT turn ON the AMP.


NOW:

No matter what combo of settings I set either the TV or AMP to, once I use the "External Speakers" (which activates Simple-Link HDMI-CE) the AMP will Turn ON and switch to TV-Audio when the TV is turned on.

I can even get the AMP not to Turn OFF with TV, but it will always Turn ON.

The only way not to have the AMP turn on w/ the TV is to deactivate Simple-Link (HDMI-CE) before turning OFF the TV.


SO I just do not understand why, not matter what setting I set the Power options for either device, both seem to ignore it.


Upsetting to say the least.
Edited by mrkalel - 10/23/12 at 5:27pm
post #499 of 7688
When I installed my XPA-3 on an older Denon (4308)......it was like night and day...I could not believe it. ( For my demo I was using an SACD source and an Oppo 93 player) - but the sound was significantly better.
post #500 of 7688
mrkalel,

Have you verified that the settings currently shown by both the AVR and the TV are still the way you configured them? Something might have changed them (perhaps another member of your household or an electrical glitch).

You could try doing a "soft reset" of them both: unplug each from the wall for a few minutes. If that doesn't work the next thing to try would be a hard reset as described in the manual, but then you'd have to recalibrate if you haven't saved the settings to a pc.

Also verify that both have up-to-date firmware. There's a slight possibility, of course, that a recent firmware update introduced a bug.
post #501 of 7688
Quote:
Originally Posted by knoxtn View Post

When I installed my XPA-3 on an older Denon (4308)......it was like night and day...I could not believe it. ( For my demo I was using an SACD source and an Oppo 93 player) - but the sound was significantly better.

I hope you took into consideration that something that is only just slightly louder sounds much better. Some Emotiva amps have quite high gains, often requiring in-line attenuators in order for Audyssey to be able to calibrate them properly.
post #502 of 7688
I'm in final stage of negotiation with my local audio shop buying a 4520CI + 2 additional speakers for 9.1, won't disclose price here but I am getting a pretty decent deal, win-win for him and I.
Same person / shop I bought all my gear from Dec-2007.
Support your local brick and mortar!

I'm expecting you guys with 4520's already to debug them with Denon so when mine arrives I'll do 1 firmware upgrade and be good from there smile.gif


Sent from my iPhone4 using Tapatalk
post #503 of 7688
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

mrkalel,
Have you verified that the settings currently shown by both the AVR and the TV are still the way you configured them? Something might have changed them (perhaps another member of your household or an electrical glitch).
You could try doing a "soft reset" of them both: unplug each from the wall for a few minutes. If that doesn't work the next thing to try would be a hard reset as described in the manual, but then you'd have to recalibrate if you haven't saved the settings to a pc.
Also verify that both have up-to-date firmware. There's a slight possibility, of course, that a recent firmware update introduced a bug.

Yup, I have tried every combo of settings...

I will next try a soft then hard reset to see whats up...

I'll write a follow up when I get around to it... Thanks again...
post #504 of 7688
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

I'm in final stage of negotiation with my local audio shop buying a 4520CI + 2 additional speakers for 9.1, won't disclose price here but I am getting a pretty decent deal, win-win for him and I.
Same person / shop I bought all my gear from Dec-2007.
Support your local brick and mortar!
I'm expecting you guys with 4520's already to debug them with Denon so when mine arrives I'll do 1 firmware upgrade and be good from there smile.gif
Sent from my iPhone4 using Tapatalk

 

From my perspective, there is only one issue with my 4520, and it's something that will only affect owners who use an Audyssey Pro kit for calibration.  The serial-to-USB connection is achieving only 50% of the throughput I was seeing with a 4311.  This causes an Audyssey Pro calibration to take significantly longer to complete.  A case has been opened with Denon.

 

Does anyone else have an issue with their 4520?

post #505 of 7688
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

I assume the 5308 is made in Japan and the new 4520 made in Malaysia( or similar place)...that in itself could mean a few hundred dollars
I agree with on what probably accounts for the weight difference...5308 was built to flagship receiver standards and priced accordingly
Denon is the only manufacture that still builds what I call a true

If you took the time to look at the back panel of the 4520 you would clearly see that it is made in Japan.

http://www.denon4520.com/gallery/hires/backphoto_hi.jpg

Bill
post #506 of 7688
Q for those with the 4520.

When you use HDMI for zone 1 video/audio - typical cable box, can you also send the audio to the 2nd zone?

I can't do that with my 4308, it's a PIA for sporting events where a big game is on in the HT and in my rec room I want to listen to zone 2 same.
post #507 of 7688
^^^

don't have one, but the answer is no...
post #508 of 7688
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^

don't have one, but the answer is no...

dag nabit! Is there some copy protection scheme that keeps this from being simple?

I can send to all 3 zones fm/internet radio.....this so makes big parties a PIA
post #509 of 7688
^^^

nope, not copy protection...

technically speaking, a "zone", by definition, explicitly means that a different source can be used than what is being used in the main zone... in order for that to be accomplished, the unit would have to include a duplicate digital path to process a second source at the same time... that would add a pretty significant cost to the bill of materials...

even if it was the "same source", the unit would have to have the ability to take a mch source and downmix it to stereo in order to pass it to the zone... the higher end yammy aventages did this (dunno if they still do) in "party mode"...

for tv, many stb's will out out 2 channel analog as well as the digital signal... you could hook it up analog as well (to a different input), and ship that input to zone 2 (although there may be sone timing issues there)...
post #510 of 7688
Denon AVR-4520 in and installed, upgraded from a Denon AVR-4311ci.

First off, looks, feels great! I miss the Audyssey DSX blue LED though.

The Audyssey setup results were way different. In regards with the levels. . before with the 4311, nothing was allowed to go +db, everything was -db.

With the 4520, the results were allowed to go +db finally.

Let me say that I've run Audyssey on my 4311 previously over 10 times, adjusting the setup, trying new speakers, but never positioning. The results were always "in family" very similar with the levels and distances.

I used a protractor, math, laser, and string to figure out the speaker locations exactly to the Audyssey recommendations (except for rear). The calculated distance always showed differences in the Left side of the room versus Right.

Now the distances are almost perfectly mirrored, the levels are obviously slightly different.

Closing my eyes, and sweeping through the room with the test tones, listening for apparent differences is pretty impressive. The levels seem perfectly balanced, even though I cranked up the rears a little (rear surround always seems low to me).

The menus are much better (much like my AVR-3313ci downstairs).

So far, very happy with the build quality, and the Audyssey upgrades (whatever they did).

Some pics:

557843_10100585433967759_462710906_n.jpg
254352_10100585434117459_690719589_n.jpg
Edited by kamiraa - 10/26/12 at 1:44pm
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