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The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 165

post #4921 of 7678
Input is appreciated as I purchased this unit a couple of weeks ago and now have an issue with the unit turning itself on and off every 5 seconds after running for an hour or so with normal viewing....I’ve ran the gambit of troubleshooting issues….I unplugged from the power conditioner and plugged it into the wall same issue…I purchased a cooling fan to circulate the air just in case it was too hot…I re wired the speaker wire to insure nothing was touching or grounding out…I switched power cords and no change…..toggled all the zones to off and on with no difference…..so if anyone has any solutions fire away....thanks
post #4922 of 7678
I'm experiencing noise with light switches and my ceiling fan control. Anyone else experiencing this?

I'm gonna swap out the Denon with my old Pioneer SC-05 and see if it's not the speaker amps.



On edit....

I swapped to the Pioneer.... same issue so the problem is noise getting into the new active speakers I just got.

Working on a grounding solution.
Edited by mhrischuk - 6/23/13 at 6:05am
post #4923 of 7678
Gt mine today! Set up was quick and easy. Airing til the dead of night to run audesesy


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
post #4924 of 7678
Quote:
Originally Posted by lotr07 View Post

Input is appreciated as I purchased this unit a couple of weeks ago and now have an issue with the unit turning itself on and off every 5 seconds after running for an hour or so with normal viewing....I’ve ran the gambit of troubleshooting issues….I unplugged from the power conditioner and plugged it into the wall same issue…I purchased a cooling fan to circulate the air just in case it was too hot…I re wired the speaker wire to insure nothing was touching or grounding out…I switched power cords and no change…..toggled all the zones to off and on with no difference…..so if anyone has any solutions fire away....thanks

Other than resetting the microprocessor (p. 201 OM), this has been known to happen on some units (in general, not specifically the 4520CI) which have required repair to resolve the issue. frown.gif
post #4925 of 7678
Thanks. Took care of it
post #4926 of 7678
Back in the attic I go tonite to attempt to run Height speaker wiring - oh joy ! eek.gif
post #4927 of 7678
And I'm running two dedicated 20a lines from the main panel right now. 88 feet. I found the issue with my noise. Did a test and discovered my ice amps like to hear too much.
post #4928 of 7678
Hi Guys,

Just popping in from "Down-Under".............

I posted this message a week or so on a local forum, unfortunatelt not one answer, neither has the search function here been able to help frown.gif

Wondering if anyone here could help me out ?

Thanks,

Austen.

ZONE SETUP (Zone 4)

I've got a question about setting up Multi-Room Zones for audio output with the Denon 4520.

The situation is that we are currently in the final planning stages for a new home and I am trying to work out my best option for multi-room audio.

Our current situation is driven by a Denon AVR 3805.......

The AVR 3805 has a total of nine amplifiers, configured as seven main (powered) amps and two pre-amps.

My current setup is configured as follows

Zone 1.....Main Audio (TV and Video watching) 5.1 (5 Main amps and the sub)

Zone 2....Alfresco Audio (DVD / Radio listening) 2.0 (2 Main Amps)

Zone 3....Pool Area Audio (Kids head-banging music) (2 Pre-Amps feeding very old Akai amplifier)

Required outcome driven by a Denon AVR 4520.........

I understand the Denon AVR 4520 has a total of eleven amplifiers, configured as nine main (powered) amps and two pre-amps.

So.........

With this background, I'd like to do similar in the new place but with an additional Zone, like this................

Zone 1.......Main Audio (TV and Video watching) 5.1 (5 Main amps and the sub)

Zone 2......Area 2 (2 Main Amps)

Zone 3......Area 3 (2 Main Amps)

Zone 4......Area 4 (2 Pre-Amps feeding very old Akai amplifier)

Is this possible ?

Google has not been my friend, even directing me to the AVR 4520 Owners manual, which has not been a great deal of help.
:
:
The owners manual has this to say about my situation .....

Starting off on Page 2.....

Equipped with a Multi-Zone Function 4 source, 4 zone output
This unit is equipped with a multi-zone function, so you can enjoy separate sound sources in four rooms including MAIN ZONE.

Excellent, Sounds just what we want, BUT .................

Equipped with an HDMI output for ZONE4
This unit is equipped with an HDMI output for ZONE4, which allows you to enjoy video and audio in a room in ZONE4 as well. You can enjoy video sources other than those in MAIN ZONE.

Now, is this an added feature, a bonus if you will, or is it trying to say......."The Zone 4 output is only via HDMI, so the only way you can actually hear anything on Zone 4 is via speakers on a HDMi-connected TV"
:
:
:
Page 113..Input selections

Power in ZONE2, ZONE3 or ZONE4 can be turned on or off by pressing ZONE2 ON/OFF, ZONE3 ON/OFF or ZONE4 ON/OFF on the main unit.

Press the input source select button to select the input source to be played.
The audio and video signal of the selected source is output to ZONE2, ZONE3 or ZONE4.

So, that sounds good we can have any input independently turned ON or OFF with any input going to any Zone, even though there is a limitation mentioned on Page 112....

In ZONE2 or ZONE3, the digital audio signals input from the HDMI, COAXIAL or OPTICAL connector cannot be played back. When playing back in ZONE2 or ZONE3, make an analog connection, network or ipod/USM.

However, as the Page heading for this particular page is.....

Zone playback by audio output (PRE OUT)
Is this limitation the same as my current AVR-3805, that is, digital inputs cannot go to a pre-amp ?
If this is the case this would not affect my proposed use of Zone 2 + Zone 3 being on the integrated power amps ?
:
:
:
Page 141 .. Configuring the amps
5.1ch + ZONE2/3: Assigns power amplifiers within this unit as follows:
5.1ch for MAIN ZONE and 2ch for ZONE2 and ZONE3 each

That's something like my current setup, except Zone 3 is driven by the main (internal) amps instead of my old Akai amp.

However, In this setup, there is no mention of Zone 4, nor of the two pre-amps doing anything.
:
:
:
There may be a bit of a clue on page 197 / Troubleshooting...

When the HDMI ZONE4 function is used, no video or audio is output to TV in ZONE4.

•Make sure that the power is on for ZONE4.
•Check the input source for ZONE4.
•Check the output settings (resolution/audio format) for the input device.
•The HDMI 7 / MHL connector on the front panel does not support the HDMI ZONE4 function.
•For ZONE4, playback is only possible when the input signals are HDMI signals

I'm really not understanding Zone 4 in this unit.

It implies that you can configure the unit to freely use different inputs for each of the four Zones and drive the four Zones independently as you wish (with the understanding you'll be using "pre-amps" (BYO Power Amps) for the last two channels.

But the manual speaks many words about Zone 4, but nowhere does it say (or even imply) that I can just use the AVR-4520 excatly as I am doing now with the simple difference being using the two additional power-amps to drive an additional (2 channel) Zone.

All this distils into one simple question..................

Can the Denon AVR-4520 be configured as follows, and if so, how ?

Zone 1.......Main Audio (TV and Video watching) 5.1 (5 Main amps and the sub)

Zone 2......Area 2 (2 Main Amps)

Zone 3......Area 3 (2 Main Amps)

Zone 4......Area 4 (2 Pre-Amps feeding very old Akai amplifier)

Many thanks,

Austen.
post #4929 of 7678
Correct. Zone 4 is via the HDMI (Zone 4) output only so connect it directly to a TV or via an HDMI --> optical converter to the 3805 and then connect the Zone 4 speakers to the 3805 and use the 4520CI to power Zones 1-3.
Edited by jdsmoothie - 6/24/13 at 7:29pm
post #4930 of 7678
Thread Starter 
The 3805 is pre HDMI. So Zone 4 won't work... It's HDMI only and doesn't have associated stereo RCA pre outs.

So you would either need to split one of the other zones or get a budget HDMI receiver to power speakers in Zone 4.
post #4931 of 7678
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Correct. Zone 4 is via the HDMI (Zone 4) output only so connect it directly to a TV or via an HDMI --> optical converter to the 3805 and then connect the Zone 4 speakers to the 3805 and use the 4520CI to power Zones 1-3.

Thanks Guys....

The 3805 will be re-purposed in the new build, I was going to continue to use the old Akai amp as the remaining Zone amplifier for the 4520.

So if the AVR-4520 only outputs the Zone 4 Audio via HDMI, all I need to do is get a HDMI==> Audio converter........

http://www.amazon.com/ViewHD-Premium-Audio-Extractor-Converter/dp/B00AHS8LD8

And feed the analogue output into the Akai ?

Sounds great, but I might lash out and upgrade the Akai to one of the new D-Class or T-Class Amps !

Final question......
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

The 4520CI cannot pass digital audio to Zones 2/3.

As I want to use the extra three zones for Audio Distribution.................

So if I'm using Zone 1 as my "Primary (5.1)" Zone for my TV and 5.1 sound, Zone 2 and Zone 3 MUST be supplied digital audio ?

What about Zone 4 (HDMI Out), if I'm using this for Audio Out, am I correct in assuming (something I really should learn not to do !! ) that if it's "HDMI-Digital" out then this ALSO needs Digital input ?

So, long story short, I need to ensure that all my audio sources feeding Zone 2, 3, and 4 have Digital Output for the 4520 ?

Seems like a step back from my 3805, IIRC Zone 2 can be either Digital or Analouge (Stereo L/R) input ??

Thanks again,

Austen.
post #4932 of 7678
Zone 2/3 MUST be ANALOG input...
post #4933 of 7678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splicer010 View Post

Zone 2/3 MUST be ANALOG input...

Thanks Splicer010 !!

Austen.
post #4934 of 7678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Austen View Post


Seems like a step back from my 3805, IIRC Zone 2 can be either Digital or Analouge (Stereo L/R) input ??

Thanks again,

Austen.

Prior to the 2012 models being released, the 280XCI and higher models (to apparently include the 3805) do allow PCM 2.0 over optical/digital coax to Zones 2/3; however, this feature was removed on the 2012 models to include the 4520CI, but has returned on the new 2013 X3000 and X4000, both of which also allow HDMI PCM 2.0 audio to Zone 2 as well. If you can live with Zones 2 and 3 playing the same source, you may want to consider the X4000 as well as it features the same Audyssey XT32 + Sub EQ HT as does the 4520CI.
post #4935 of 7678
What a night ! Got my height speakers installed and wired, hooked up my new Emotiva 2 channel amp, re - ran Audyssey ( and re - painted 1/2 the theater black and dark grey while I was at it ) ! eek.gif

Haven't had time to test the new 11.1 setup other than a brief test run with the opening scenes of The Transporter with that cool Stanley Clarke sound track, More testing tonite. One thing to note for anyone wanting 11.1 - it's going to cost you $ 1k ( or more ) for an amp and a couple of good speakers, if you don't already have them.
post #4936 of 7678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Peer View Post

What a night ! Got my height speakers installed and wired, hooked up my new Emotiva 2 channel amp, re - ran Audyssey ( and re - painted 1/2 the theater black and dark grey while I was at it ) ! eek.gif

Haven't had time to test the new 11.1 setup other than a brief test run with the opening scenes of The Transporter with that cool Stanley Clarke sound track, More testing tonite. One thing to note for anyone wanting 11.1 - it's going to cost you $ 1k ( or more ) for an amp and a couple of good speakers, if you don't already have them.


Hurry up already and get on with the testing of the heights so you can give us your subjective opinion! tongue.gif

Put it through it's paces... Wanna see if it's worthy of consideration! confused.gif


...Glenn smile.gif
post #4937 of 7678
So I will give my 2 cents on the Heights. I thoroughly enjoy them and feel like they add an entire dimension to my listening. The nicest thing about them (I listen in mostly Neo:X) is that you never really notice them. Except when you do. And when you do, they are amazing. The first time I watched The Dark Knight, which I had watched in the same room, with the same speakers and acoustics many times, with the heights on I was blown away. It sounded like helicopters were circling my house. It sounded like debris was raining down on me. In movie scenes with storms you will get up and look outside when you hear the first couple of thunder cracks.

Again, just my 2 cents.
post #4938 of 7678
Quote:
Originally Posted by kertofer View Post

So I will give my 2 cents on the Heights. I thoroughly enjoy them and feel like they add an entire dimension to my listening. The nicest thing about them (I listen in mostly Neo:X) is that you never really notice them. Except when you do. And when you do, they are amazing. The first time I watched The Dark Knight, which I had watched in the same room, with the same speakers and acoustics many times, with the heights on I was blown away. It sounded like helicopters were circling my house. It sounded like debris was raining down on me. In movie scenes with storms you will get up and look outside when you hear the first couple of thunder cracks.

Again, just my 2 cents.



Thanks for the impressions!

If I were to utilize Height speakers I could not achieve the recommended 45 degree placement. The Height speaker would be mounted 8 feet high and my listening position is at a 12 foot distance from the speaker resulting in a 30 degree height if my calculation is correct.

I wonder if a 30 degree height would be effective enough? confused.gif


...Glenn smile.gif
post #4939 of 7678
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Baumann View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kertofer View Post

So I will give my 2 cents on the Heights. I thoroughly enjoy them and feel like they add an entire dimension to my listening. The nicest thing about them (I listen in mostly Neo:X) is that you never really notice them. Except when you do. And when you do, they are amazing. The first time I watched The Dark Knight, which I had watched in the same room, with the same speakers and acoustics many times, with the heights on I was blown away. It sounded like helicopters were circling my house. It sounded like debris was raining down on me. In movie scenes with storms you will get up and look outside when you hear the first couple of thunder cracks.

Again, just my 2 cents.



Thanks for the impressions!

If I were to utilize Height speakers I could not achieve the recommended 45 degree placement. The Height speaker would be mounted 8 feet high and my listening position is at a 12 foot distance from the speaker resulting in a 30 degree height if my calculation is correct.

I wonder if a 30 degree height would be effective enough? confused.gif


...Glenn smile.gif

 

Those guidelines are for Audyssey DSX. If you use PLIIz, your placement options are far less severe - the Dolby website recommends about 1m above the main speakers and similar or slightly wider in spacing. Not sure what DTS recommend for Neo:X - it will be on their website no doubt.

 

I used to use DSX with improper angles and it sounded OK but I switched to PLIIz because I didn't like the way DSX derives the Height info (from the front L & R channels) and the way it decorrelates and lowers the level of the surrounds. PLIIz derives the Height information from the surrounds and doesn't mess with them like DSX does. For me, DSX gave a presentation that was way too front-centric.

 

But this is all preference-land - there are no standards for Height info so experiment and go with the one that sounds best to you. I have found the height channels do add to my overall enjoyment with no great amount of downside (with PLIIz anyway). 

post #4940 of 7678
I totally agree with kbarnes. I am in a similar situation and have my heights mounted at the top of the 8' room. This gives me an up angle of roughly 30 degrees. This, in my opinion of course, works fine because it places the heights at the top of the room and well above the normal listening angle of the other speakers. In my room my main listening speakers are between 20 and 30" off the ground (Center channel on a 22" stand and floor standing mains that are a little less than 3' tall) so the height difference still is very audible.
post #4941 of 7678
Thanks guy's... I will definitely be giving heights a whirl! biggrin.gif


...Glenn smile.gif
post #4942 of 7678
I plan on using Black Hawk Down and Master and Commander to demo the Height speakers tonite !! smile.gif
post #4943 of 7678
Thread Starter 
Master and Commander is a great one for heights. If you replay a scene from under the deck with heights on vs off you can really feel the extra "dimension" that they add. The creaking of the wood and the ambience really extends vertically, makes it so much more immersive.
post #4944 of 7678
There's a reason Master and Commander won an Oscar for best sound editing ( and was nominated for best sound mixing. Apocalypse Now should be another good demo Blu Ray.

No matter what, knowing I had two unused surround channels not being used would have left me sleepless at night - oh the humanity........... cool.gif

I'm lucky that I could mount my speakers pretty darn high - the bottom of the height speaker is 8 feet off the floor -

post #4945 of 7678
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Those guidelines are for Audyssey DSX. If you use PLIIz, your placement options are far less severe - the Dolby website recommends about 1m above the main speakers and similar or slightly wider in spacing. Not sure what DTS recommend for Neo:X - it will be on their website no doubt.

I used to use DSX with improper angles and it sounded OK but I switched to PLIIz because I didn't like the way DSX derives the Height info (from the front L & R channels) and the way it decorrelates and lowers the level of the surrounds. PLIIz derives the Height information from the surrounds and doesn't mess with them like DSX does. For me, DSX gave a presentation that was way too front-centric.

But this is all preference-land - there are no standards for Height info so experiment and go with the one that sounds best to you. I have found the height channels do add to my overall enjoyment with no great amount of downside (with PLIIz anyway). 

From the DTS website, it would seem the Neo:X Front height placement is the same as with the DD PLIIz placement (ie. directly above the FL/FR speakers) ....

post #4946 of 7678
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

From the DTS website, it would seem the Neo:X Front height placement is the same as with the DD PLIIz placement (ie. directly above the FL/FR speakers) ....


The problem with this placement is that it isn't the recommended one for DSX. I like to be able to chose DSX, PLIIz, or Neo:X, depending on the content. AFAICT, neither PLIIz nor Neo:X suffers from placing the Wide speakers further towards the side wall. Has anyone compared both placements?
post #4947 of 7678
I noticed that when watching cable TV with a stereo broadcast, the DTS Cinema mode cancels out all sound from my center channel. The other modes all have output from my center, to one degree or another, but only DTS Cinema puts nothing out from the center. Has any one else noticed this? Surprisingly, it images so well that I absolutely can not tell that there is nothing coming from my center unless I put my ear right up against the center speaker. I don't think there's a problem with my set up as all other modes put some sound in my center and DTS Cinema works normally if the the broadcast is in DD. That doesn't seem to make sense?
post #4948 of 7678
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougReim View Post

I noticed that when watching cable TV with a stereo broadcast, the DTS Cinema mode cancels out all sound from my center channel. The other modes all have output from my center, to one degree or another, but only DTS Cinema puts nothing out from the center. Has any one else noticed this? Surprisingly, it images so well that I absolutely can not tell that there is nothing coming from my center unless I put my ear right up against the center speaker. I don't think there's a problem with my set up as all other modes put some sound in my center and DTS Cinema works normally if the the broadcast is in DD. That doesn't seem to make sense?

What is DTS Cinema? I don't have such a mode on my 4520.
post #4949 of 7678
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

What is DTS Cinema? I don't have such a mode on my 4520.


AJ,


From the Denon 4520 Manual:


SEE page 88

Not sure how or where to activate it but there it is


DTS Neo:X
This matrix decoding technology uses the DTS
NEO:X decoder to playback 2-channel source
or 5.1/6.1/7.1 channel surround sources as a
maximum of 11.1 channel surround sound. There
are 3 modes: “Music” suited for playing music,
“Cinema” suited for playing movies, and “Game”
which is optimized for playing games


...Glenn smile.gif
post #4950 of 7678
Thread Starter 
Jerry -- As Glenn posits I'm sure he's referring to the DTS Neo:X Cinema mode. DTS Neo:X replaces the older DTS Neo:6 even if you aren't running height/wide speakers. I am only running a 5.1 setup on my X4000 and I get DTS Neo:X Cinema when I select that upmixing.

@ Doug -- the DTS Neo:X Cinema mode has a "Center Gain" setting (adjusted in "Surround Parameter" in the Audio menu) which is variable from 0.0-1.0, this setting controls how much of the in-phase content gets mixed into the center. I think if this setting is "maxed out" the center channel is muted and all the center content gets split between the FR/FL channels. This is unlike PLII Cinema which has no adjustable parameters.
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