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# The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 197

^OK, that's useful data.

Using the calculator I referenced   http://www.csgnetwork.com/righttricalc.html

here's how I'd use it:

point A=MLP, b=the centerline and a is the front wall from the centerline to the L side front corner at B.

enter b=13.5 and angle A=60.  Hit calculate and it tells you that to correctly place a wide speaker on the front wall it would have to be 23' ("a") from the centerline to be at 60 degrees.

Clear values, reenter b=13.5.  Enter the highest possible value in your room (1/2 X20)=10' as "a".

Hit calculate and it tells you that if you stuck the wide speaker on the front wall right against the side wall it would be at about 35 degrees.

So the wides have to go on the side wall.  Where exactly on the side wall is trickier to calculate, it's  far easier to just shoot the wide speaker position with a protractor rather than to calculate it.

(but the answer is that at 91" back from the front wall on the side wall is 60 degrees off centerline).

Edited by SoundofMind - 10/4/13 at 10:01am

### Gear mentioned in this thread:

^Now you can calculate the current angles to your fronts.  For convenience I converted dist to MLP 13.5' to 162" which is entered as "b"

Your fronts are 183" apart, therefore the distance off centerline is 1/2 of that=91. Enter that as "a" and calculate.  Angle A= 30 degrees.  Perfect!

Heights are 225X 1/2 =112" and are at 35 degrees.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind

^Now you can calculate the current angles to your fronts.  For convenience I converted dist to MLP 13.5' to 162" which is entered as "b"
Your fronts are 183" apart, therefore the distance off centerline is 1/2 of that=91. Enter that as "a" and calculate.  Angle A= 30 degrees.  Perfect!
Heights are 225X 1/2 =112" and are at 35 degrees.
Understood... Thank you so very much for walking me through this process... Looks like wides may be out of the question for me... The reason for that thought is because of those doors on the right side of my room. I I placed the wides on the side walls as close to the doors as possible, I would only be about 6 feet distance from my side surrounds...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Schmidt

13 1/2 feet. My front L/R's are 183" apart. My front Heights are 225" apart.

According to my calculations, your left and right are at 29.5 degrees (good), while your heights are at 35 degrees.  Is that what you estimated?

Edit:  Sorry, I didn't see SoM's reply.  At least we are consistent!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry

According to my calculations, your left and right are at 29.5 degrees (good), while your heights are at 35 degrees.  Is that what you estimated?

Edit:  Sorry, I didn't see SoM's reply.  At least we are consistent!
Yes, that is what I got when I plugged in the numbers. Fronts are good, but heights are a little too narrow, correct. Should be 45 degrees?... and then wides should be close to 60 degrees.

DTS says heights should be directly above the left and right speakers.  Audyssey says 45 degrees.  You are right in the middle of those two recommendations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Schmidt

Understood... Thank you so very much for walking me through this process... Looks like wides may be out of the question for me... The reason for that thought is because of those doors on the right side of my room. I I placed the wides on the side walls as close to the doors as possible, I would only be about 6 feet distance from my side surrounds...

You're welcome. I have some paperwork I'm avoiding so you're providing a great distraction.

Remember this is not about how close things are but rather the angles.  So...if you placed a wide in that alcove as far forward as possible, what is the angle that speaker sits at off the centerline?

If you don't have a protractor to sight it, we can calculate that angle from 2 of these 3 measurements by plugging into the calculator and solving for angle A:

MLP (Point A) to where the middle of the speaker would be (point B) ="c"

MLP (Point A) directly to the closest point on the alcove wall/parallel to the front wall (point C)=b

The distance from point B to point C

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry

Ideally, the wides should point towards the MLP. Can the tweeters pivot that far? If yes, then no problem. If not, then it depends on the dispersion characteristics of the tweeters off-axis.
Found out on the Klipsch website that the tweeter can pivot up to 60 degrees.
Hello, 9 months ago I bought 2 pieces AVR 4520 for my house. The one is in my home cinema, the second is running in the living room. The living room AVR has networkproblems from the beginning. Almost every day, the device disappears from the network. "No Networkconnection" appears in the display then.

The setup is the same for both devices:
Network: "always on", Fixed IP address (no DHCP), in the living room 192 ........ 150, 192......149 in Home Cinema

The Home Cinema 4520 is functioning as it should. Internet radio is always available after a few seconds. The Denon app (iphone5) always finds the device.

The living room 4520 has, as mentioned, "No Networkconnection" almost every day. This happens sometimes during Internetradio- Playback. Sometimes it happens immediately after switching the device on. The only solution then is to take off the Power supply of the Living Room-4520. Then the AVR logs on again to the network and the internet radio works for some hours.

I have read the FAQ on the Denon Support site and have taken the recommended actions. I have performed a factory reset and a reset of the network card (switch on with the power button while up/down button is pushed). Both with no success. The AVR stays networkconnected only for short time, then it looses Networkconnection again.

To exclude a router or LAN cable trouble or generally a problem of my Homenetwork, I finally switched the devices (incl. their Ips). So I put the perfectly functioning home theater 4520 in the living room and the malfunctioning living room AVR into my home cinema. But also this action did not help. The living room 4520 still shows the same problem. The other remains functioning perfectly in the other networkplace.

I assume, that the networkboard (card) of my device is defective and should be replaced.

What do you think ? Anyone else having similar trouble with a 4520 ? Is it easy to change the networkcard by my self ?

I live in Greece. Since I bought the Device in the Netherlands, Denon Greece does not cover my warranty for this device. The Transportation costs to NL is more expensive that the Netboardcard itsself. That's why I'm considering a "do it your self" job.

Rgds
Arik
I had the exact same problem from the beginning, and tried all your solutions too (blaming my network and cable-modem first, not having two(!) 4520's). It seems it is not network related only. Playing music through USB breaks connections (network AND usb) too after a few songs. They must be connected somehow. Trying to connect to the AVR via the IOS app, the network interface or Explorer on your pc helps to trigger the error. Disabling Always On helps to reconnect to the network after some time (sometimes), but this is no real solution. Sometimes it reconnects after a night, most of the time a full power disconnect is necessary, not responding to any button on machine or remote.
I had my network card (and a power supply) replaced under warranty this summer (in the Netherlands) but that did not work. It is under repair again now. Hope to get it back in a week or so. I'll keep you posted!
Mark
I have very similar network problems. It happened after the 2nd to last firmware update if I remember (or at least I started to really notice). I only lightly use the AVR for now while the room is being built but every few times I turn it on the screen is "fuzzy" and the network connection is dead and I can't get pandora or anything to work and of course the remote apps don't work. I have to unplug and replug and the screen comes back normal and all works fine.

It definitely appears software to me but it's very inconsistent.
Very interesting, thank you. @Mark: do you know what they are going to do now in order to fix the problem ? I hoped that it would be the nerworkcard. What a desaster if I'd bought the card myself and it would'nt fix the problem. On the other hand, sending the machinery to the Netherlands also seems not to be THE solution. How could Denon return the device to you w/o having checked the proper function ? A nightmare for me since transport both ways cost 170€ each time.

@JJ: can't believe that it is a software problem. Both my 4520 have the same, newest software. Since one is working and the other not, hardware must be the problem. But what exactly if not the networkcard and tge powersupply ?

Rgds, Arik
^^
There are (3) resets described in post #3 of this thread and below ... give the middle one a try.

Full/Deep Reset - resets the network card (NIC) and the microprocessor: UP/DOWN arrow buttons

Network Reset - resets the network card (NIC) only: DIMMER/INFO

Microprocessor Reset - resets the microprocessor only: INFO/BACK

Also note that the XX12 and newer models to include the 4520CI (AFAIK) include the network card with the HDMI board so you would have to replace the whole board which would run about \$300 USD.
Hi JD, thanks for the info. Didn't know about the DIMMER/INFO Combo which restets only the NIC. Will try later, although it would be really funny if a (simple) Networkreset would solve a problem which a Full/Deep Reset could'nt solve.

Edit: Just tried this DIMMER/INFO Combo an it does not reset anything. Are you sure these are the right buttons ?

Rgs
Arik
Edited by arik - 10/5/13 at 8:29am
Agreed. Worth trying never the less. Also have you tried using DHCP just for the LR unit?
Quote:
Originally Posted by arik

Hello, 9 months ago I bought 2 pieces AVR 4520 for my house. The one is in my home cinema, the second is running in the living room. The living room AVR has networkproblems from the beginning. Almost every day, the device disappears from the network. "No Networkconnection" appears in the display then.

The setup is the same for both devices:
Network: "always on", Fixed IP address (no DHCP), in the living room 192 ........ 150, 192......149 in Home Cinema

The Home Cinema 4520 is functioning as it should. Internet radio is always available after a few seconds. The Denon app (iphone5) always finds the device.

The living room 4520 has, as mentioned, "No Networkconnection" almost every day. This happens sometimes during Internetradio- Playback. Sometimes it happens immediately after switching the device on. The only solution then is to take off the Power supply of the Living Room-4520. Then the AVR logs on again to the network and the internet radio works for some hours.

I have read the FAQ on the Denon Support site and have taken the recommended actions. I have performed a factory reset and a reset of the network card (switch on with the power button while up/down button is pushed). Both with no success. The AVR stays networkconnected only for short time, then it looses Networkconnection again.

To exclude a router or LAN cable trouble or generally a problem of my Homenetwork, I finally switched the devices (incl. their Ips). So I put the perfectly functioning home theater 4520 in the living room and the malfunctioning living room AVR into my home cinema. But also this action did not help. The living room 4520 still shows the same problem. The other remains functioning perfectly in the other networkplace.

I assume, that the networkboard (card) of my device is defective and should be replaced.

What do you think ? Anyone else having similar trouble with a 4520 ? Is it easy to change the networkcard by my self ?

I live in Greece. Since I bought the Device in the Netherlands, Denon Greece does not cover my warranty for this device. The Transportation costs to NL is more expensive that the Netboardcard itsself. That's why I'm considering a "do it your self" job.

Rgds
Arik

I had a network lock-up myself, in my case, I have Network "always on" and i tried the Network Reset - resets the network card (NIC) only: DIMMER/INFO and that did not work, I changed the network setting to "off in standby" and i tried the network reset again, that worked. I think i may has caused the lock-up as well by using the web interface and the android app at the same time........
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie

Agreed. Worth trying never the less. Also have you tried using DHCP just for the LR unit?

yes, with no success
Quote:
Originally Posted by 007james

I had a network lock-up myself, in my case, I have Network "always on" and i tried the Network Reset - resets the network card (NIC) only: DIMMER/INFO and that did not work, I changed the network setting to "off in standby" and i tried the network reset again, that worked. I think i may has caused the lock-up as well by using the web interface and the android app at the same time........

With both Network "always on" and "off in standby" the network card (NIC) only reswet: DIMMER/INFO does not seem to work. At least I don't see a difference before and after. No Displayflusfhing and the settings remain the same
@arik - my thinking of it being software (although puzzling that you have one good and one bad) was the way my screen is fuzzy and scrambled a bit when I know it's not working but since JD said the board has hdmi and the NIC I wonder if that is related and could be hardware. I must say it's really annoying but happens randomly so sending it out to get fixed doesn't seem like it will go well.
If it were software, then you would see many owners reporting issues here, which is not the case.
agreed - I just don't want to believe it's hardware as I don't want to have to deal with taking it in and not having it
I just made a strange discovery. I have a NAS running in my Homenetwork. It's a Synology 213+ which is set to stay in sleep mode (HDD-Hibernation) when not in use. When I switch on the (defective) LR-4520 pressing the "input Internet" button on the remote to listen to Internetradio (having the networksetting "always on") my Synology NAS wakes up immediately, leaves the HDD Hibernation mode. Don't know what this means.

Doing the same with the other (well working) AVR 4520 does not have this effect. The Synolgy stays asleep. Could there be a conflict between the NAS and the one AVR ? If so, why is the other AVR not affected ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by arik

I just made a strange discovery. I have a NAS running in my Homenetwork. It's a Synology 213+ which is set to stay in sleep mode (HDD-Hibernation) when not in use. When I switch on the (defective) LR-4520 pressing the "input Internet" button on the remote to listen to Internetradio (having the networksetting "always on") my Synology NAS wakes up immediately, leaves the HDD Hibernation mode. Don't know what this means.

Doing the same with the other (well working) AVR 4520 does not have this effect. The Synolgy stays asleep. Could there be a conflict between the NAS and the one AVR ? If so, why is the other AVR not affected ?

You may indeed have a networking issue. I don't know why you use static IP's because DHCP should work just fine. You could download a free network analyzer (FING is a good one, and it runs on IOS) and analyze the IP's in use on your network.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjslegacy

@arik - my thinking of it being software (although puzzling that you have one good and one bad) was the way my screen is fuzzy and scrambled a bit when I know it's not working but since JD said the board has hdmi and the NIC I wonder if that is related and could be hardware. I must say it's really annoying but happens randomly so sending it out to get fixed doesn't seem like it will go well.

In my case it always starts with the fuzzy and scrambled screen. I am not sure what they are doing right now to repair it but I will report back after it returns. I cannot believe it is software. I did all the resets and in the first repair report they stated they installed the latest system software.
Mark
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry

You may indeed have a networking issue. I don't know why you use static IP's because DHCP should work just fine. You could download a free network analyzer (FING is a good one, and it runs on IOS) and analyze the IP's in use on your network.

As I mentioned before, I tried also DHCP setting with the LR-AVR., makes no difference.

Does somebody know what the "maintenance mode" in the network settings does ? There you can choose a Web access port and switch "port mapping" from "automatic" by default to "manual".

I changed the setting to manual and chosed and opened the preselected "10443" port in my router to the AVR IP. Does this make sense ? I will also deactivate HDD-Hibernation of the NAS to see of this helps.
Edited by arik - 10/5/13 at 3:58pm
Did you check to see if you have an IP address conflict?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry

Did you check to see if you have an IP address conflict?

Yes, I used Fing as you suggested. As far as I understand there is no conflict. All my three Denon devices (2x AVR-4520, 1x 3313UD BR-Player) are listed. The BR-Player had a DHCP IP (.43). The malfunctioning AVR 4520 were listed correctly with it's fixed IP (.102) The other Avr (the good one) was also listed (.150)

The fixed IP with the .102 ending worked well for months with the AVR w/o networkproblems.

Yesterday evening I diasbled sleep mode in my Synology NAS thus leaving it in 24/7 mode. I'm curious to see how long the AVR will keep it's networkconnection now. For the last 20 hours it worked. We will see. It's absolutely not logical why it should work, why only one AVR 4520 could provoke networkconflicts with the NAS and not the other.....

Rgds
Arik

Edit: It happened again. Networkconnection was lost again although the NAS in 24/7 mode. So my homenetwork seems to be OK. Will have to send the machine to Denon, nightmare............
Edited by arik - 10/6/13 at 10:07am
As stated in an earlier post, it really annoys me that the onscreen volume indicator disappears when I turn Video Conversion off
The useful info that is shown when you press the Info button also disappears
My earlier Pioneer had no onscreen volume indicator, and it drove me nuts
So... are there any negative side effects to leaving it on?
For instance I noticed that the picture from Apple TV lost some fine detail with Video Conversion turned on
Mostly I watch Blu-rays
Any thoughts?
Thanks
In the market for a new receiver but wondering if the 4520ci will be replaced for 2014? Any word on that?
It should be as the flagship model is replaced every 2 years, so the new HDMI 2.0 successor should be due out Oct 2014.
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