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The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 29

post #841 of 7843
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

That just means he's old been around long enough to remember how to set up a serial port tongue.gif 9600,8,1,n eek.gif
Jerry, I think the serial interface on the AVR is the limiting factor. The timing of the download from my laptop to the A-100 correlated pretty well to a 9600 baud connection. Now that Denon is including Ethernet ports and in the case of the 4520, a hub, it's time they rewrote the interface. That said, given the relatively low number of Pro kits out there, it probably isn't a priority.

What you say may be true, but it doesn't explain why the serial data transfer speed for the 4520 is only half as fast as the 4311. One would not expect a step backwards. BTW, I opened a case with Denon over a month ago, but (as is typical of Denon support) I have not received an answer yet.
post #842 of 7843
That raises an esoteric point: Is there any PC utility software that could determine what baud rate the serial inferface is using before converting to USB on the laptop in the Pro Cal, and is the baud rate tweakable?

I can just imagine the chip on the 4520 getting the serial port throttled to 2400 baud given the ports it controls. Talk about a step backwards....eek!

If the baud rate can be tweaked to improve the Pro processing time to less glacial speeds, the winner gets a DOS version of Procomm Plus:)
post #843 of 7843
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

That raises an esoteric point: Is there any PC utility software that could determine what baud rate the serial inferface is using before converting to USB on the laptop in the Pro Cal, and is the baud rate tweakable?
I can just imagine the chip on the 4520 getting the serial port throttled to 2400 baud given the ports it controls. Talk about a step backwards....eek!
If the baud rate can be tweaked to improve the Pro processing time to less glacial speeds, the winner gets a DOS version of Procomm Plus:)

The signal on the PC side is USB, and I have never seen any way to measure/adjust USB port data speeds. Of course, this could be just an issue with my 4520, which is why I am anxious to hear about someone else's experience. Chris?
post #844 of 7843
Not sure if anyone will be able to answer this here, but figured I would ask If not, will perhaps try the apple site (or just try it when my receiver comes.)

I currently have a Denon avr 3802 and am upgrading to an avr 4520CI, and currently I have an apple universal iPhone dock that I use for my iPhone 4S , so that the usb out, plugs in to an outlet to charge and the doc has RCA cables that go to audio in on my receiver so that I can play music from my iphone through my receiver.

When I get the 4520, was wondering if I could plug the USB from the doc directly into the back of the 4520 ipod in connection an whether the unit will get power and be able to send sound and video to the receiver. I know I can use airplay as well, but when I want to charge the unit, would think a direct connection would be better.

Also, as a related question, still using component out to my TV (Pioneer Elite Pro610HD), and was wondering if the iphone and airplay, as well as the menus for pandora, spotify, etc will be usable on my TV?

Thanks
Edited by Tachy - 11/10/12 at 12:02pm
post #845 of 7843
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

That raises an esoteric point: Is there any PC utility software that could determine what baud rate the serial inferface is using before converting to USB on the laptop in the Pro Cal, and is the baud rate tweakable?
I can just imagine the chip on the 4520 getting the serial port throttled to 2400 baud given the ports it controls. Talk about a step backwards....eek!
If the baud rate can be tweaked to improve the Pro processing time to less glacial speeds, the winner gets a DOS version of Procomm Plus:)

I think I might have a serial breakout box that shows the transmission speed somewhere in the IT museum/junk box in the basement. If it still works, I'll check the speed on my A-100 and see if I can talk ccotenj into doing the same on his 4520. Wouldn't have thought I'd ever use that again.

Lotta "experienced" IT guys on this thread :-)
post #846 of 7843
^^^

i think i'm just old... redface.gif man, i haven't seen a serial breakout box in years...

answers to come as soon as i can find the power supply for the mic preamp... gonna use the usb-serial interface just to see what i get...
post #847 of 7843
and the answer is....

it's not just your unit jerry... it is SLOWWWWWW...

on the 4311, it took a bit under 3 minutes to do the beep-beeps and the transfer for each measuring position...

on the 4520, it takes 9 minutes...
post #848 of 7843
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

and the answer is....
it's not just your unit jerry... it is SLOWWWWWW...
on the 4311, it took a bit under 3 minutes to do the beep-beeps and the transfer for each measuring position...
on the 4520, it takes 9 minutes...

Thanks. I wasn't looking forward to returning my 4520 if yours was faster. I'll call Denon tech support on Monday to see if they have an update on my case. I used to measure 14 points, but now that it takes so long, I only measure 8 points.

If you are done calibrating, listen closely to the bass response. Does it sound different? Better?
post #849 of 7843
not yet... up tp position 6... i used to do 12, i'll likely stop at 8 for this run...

will do... i'll measure too...
post #850 of 7843
That's what AVS is for--to pass the time while doing a Pro calibration on a 4520.... wink.gif
post #851 of 7843
^^^

lol... good thing i didn't use my normal calibration method, i'd be blitzed by now... tongue.gif

first shot, no tweaking... i'll play more later, it needs a bit of work, but it's not too bad... both graphs with 1/24th smoothing...

no aud...



aud...

post #852 of 7843
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^
lol... good thing i didn't use my normal calibration method, i'd be blitzed by now... tongue.gif
first shot, no tweaking... i'll play more later, it needs a bit of work, but it's not too bad... both graphs with 1/24th smoothing...
no aud...

aud...

Based on what I see below 100Hz, it doesn't look like you need the sub distance tweak. This is exactly what inexperienced on the 4520, vs. the 4311. I think it looks pretty good.

How does the bass sound? What is that dip at 40 Hz? I wish you had some old graphs..... frown.gif
post #853 of 7843
as a fwiw... the volume control bug that has existed in every denon/marantz i've owned still exists... the one where if you are pressing volume up or down, and immediately press the "opposite direction", it continues in the initial direction...
post #854 of 7843
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^
lol... good thing i didn't use my normal calibration method, i'd be blitzed by now... tongue.gif
first shot, no tweaking... i'll play more later, it needs a bit of work, but it's not too bad... both graphs with 1/24th smoothing...
no aud...

aud...

Based on what I see below 100Hz, it doesn't look like you need the sub distance tweak. This is exactly what inexperienced on the 4520, vs. the 4311. I think it looks pretty good.

How does the bass sound? What is that dip at 40 Hz? I wish you had some old graphs..... frown.gif

yea, it looks pretty good... no major complaints there...

i'm thinking about the dip... could be a slight difference in microphone positioning between the aud mic and the omnimic...

me too... frown.gif the only ones i was able to find was from when i was running dual subs...

so far, sounds good... pumping some organ music through it right now... hard to say if it's any better/worse than before... it's been awhile, so my audio memory is pretty much gone when it comes to the a100...
post #855 of 7843
lfc "works"... however, it also "works" in the room...

it's nice to have a properly eq'd system again... smile.gif
post #856 of 7843
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

and the answer is....
it's not just your unit jerry... it is SLOWWWWWW...
on the 4311, it took a bit under 3 minutes to do the beep-beeps and the transfer for each measuring position...
on the 4520, it takes 9 minutes...

Nooooo!!!!! frown.gif

Instead of finding reasons to upgrade, there's now a major reason to not upgrade. Inexplicable. I think we poor Audyssey Pro minority customers should file a non-discrimination suit ... class action? tongue.gif

Mark
post #857 of 7843
Quote:
Originally Posted by streetsmart88 View Post


Nooooo!!!!! frown.gif
Instead of finding reasons to upgrade, there's now a major reason to not upgrade. Inexplicable. I think we poor Audyssey Pro minority customers should file a non-discrimination suit ... class action? tongue.gif
Mark

 

Mark,

 

I haven't given up on this.  As mentioned earlier, I have a case opened with Denon.  While I don't think it is an Audyssey problem, which was confirmed by Chris K., I'll re-open my case on Ask Audyssey to see if they can help pressure Denon into a comment on the issue.

post #858 of 7843
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post


yea, it looks pretty good... no major complaints there...
i'm thinking about the dip... could be a slight difference in microphone positioning between the aud mic and the omnimic...
me too... frown.gif the only ones i was able to find was from when i was running dual subs...
so far, sounds good... pumping some organ music through it right now... hard to say if it's any better/worse than before... it's been awhile, so my audio memory is pretty much gone when it comes to the a100...

 

One test you can conduct, if you are inclined to do so and have the time, is adjust the sub distances to see if you can improve the bass response curve.  As I have reported before, with the 4311, the bass tweak resulted in a significant improvement, while the 4520 calibration was correct without any adjustments.  That is the difference I reported to Audyssey, and they basically ignored my question.

post #859 of 7843
^^^

yea, i'm gonna... i'd had enough fun yesterday... plus i need to "stress test" it...

i also may try moving the sub around a bit... although there's not a boatload of options at the present time...

i promise i'll save the graphs this time... redface.gif

as far as your earlier question about "sound"... i wish i could come up with something comparative there... other than "it sounds damn good on music i am intimately familiar with" (my "playlist" is rather small, 90% of my listening is probably the same 10 pieces of music redface.gif )... but it sounded damn good before... plus i've been listening to un-eq'd sound for a few weeks, so my "baseline" is hosed up... i need to pop in some movies and "hear" what we get there...

i asked swmbo to pay attention, we will see what she says... she was out when i ran the cal yesterday, and so far, her only comments have been "i can hear you ran the beep-beeps, how come it took you 2 days?" and "don't sell the old one until the new one comes next time"... so she approves of the end result... happy wife, happy life... smile.gif

we might get some better commentary than that when i leave the house and she can listen to some of that dubstep noise she loves so much... she's a headphone addict these days though (thanks bfreedma for abusing my wallet there)...
post #860 of 7843
I am hoping for a good deal on the 11 channel Expendables, wonder how it will sound...
I must have brought the USA to your side of the pond.. Chicago is about 10C warmer this week, my concierge tells me wink.gif
post #861 of 7843
Quote:
Originally Posted by streetsmart88 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

and the answer is....
it's not just your unit jerry... it is SLOWWWWWW...
on the 4311, it took a bit under 3 minutes to do the beep-beeps and the transfer for each measuring position...
on the 4520, it takes 9 minutes...

Nooooo!!!!! frown.gif

Instead of finding reasons to upgrade, there's now a major reason to not upgrade. Inexplicable. I think we poor Audyssey Pro minority customers should file a non-discrimination suit ... class action? tongue.gif

Mark

on the flip side, it does give you more time to drink beer... biggrin.gif

i'd like it to be faster, but it's not a showstopper...
post #862 of 7843
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

on the flip side, it does give you more time to drink beer... biggrin.gif
i'd like it to be faster, but it's not a showstopper...

Wrong argument--with the apprently flatter bass < 100 Hz without the distance tweak on the Pro Cal, you should say that 'quality takes more time'smile.gif. And more IPA:p

It's too soon to know without more Pro users moving to the 4520 (and it being the only change in an HT setup), but the shadow of an elephant in the room just appeared...although an unacknowledged 'fixing what wasn't broken' by Audyssey (or more likely, Denon) wouldn't be a first...
post #863 of 7843
^^^

ah, good point... although too many ipa's leads to poor measurement technique... redface.gif

yea, i'm wondering about that shadow of an elephant too... thinking about another way to test it...
post #864 of 7843
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^
ah, good point... although too many ipa's leads to poor measurement technique... redface.gif
yea, i'm wondering about that shadow of an elephant too... thinking about another way to test it...

Find someone with a 4311 they can bring over?

BTW, I've agonized over dips in the 90 Hz and 150ish Hz only a little worse than yours, but even so, as a first pass, it's pretty darn good.

What I find interesting about your Pro Cal is that Jerry has multiple subs, and the working hypothesis was that the 4520 or Pro software has either somehow corrected a distance setting bug for a second sub, and/or is better applying filters with distance settings to make the bass region flatter which wasn't done as 'correctly' before. But if you're getting the same thing with just a single sub at the moment, there may be something 'else' going on. Pity you don't have any Pro Cal tests of your A100 with just a single sub.

Is the tradeoff of a much slower Pro Cal (3x the time per measurement) for a flatter bass worth it? I suppose it depends on how you value time and/or have a desire to do distance tweaks. My feeling is no, but YMMV, depending on the degree of the distance tweak that would be needed to compensate in the older Pro/AVR combos.

If I had money burning a hole in my pocket, I'd almost be tempted to go to AV Sales or Best Buy and pick up a unit, just for testing the hypothesis of 'better'. But as it is, I don't have time to really delve further into Pro except for the weekends, and my next 'time investment' is going to be video-related.
post #865 of 7843
^^^

didn't play with it today, i went to the shore, since it's likely the nicest day we will have for several months, plus i wanted to see what things looked like down there... fwiw, pictures/video don't get across what happened... frown.gif

thing is, it doesn't appear to take any longer to measure/calculate... it's the "transferring response" that is extending the time... it really does seem to be isolated to the interface itself...

in order to test, we'd have to figure out a way to transfer some data to the avr... commands seem to work with no delay (as well as ack without delay), but that's a small amount of data...
post #866 of 7843
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^
didn't play with it today, i went to the shore, since it's likely the nicest day we will have for several months, plus i wanted to see what things looked like down there... fwiw, pictures/video don't get across what happened... frown.gif
thing is, it doesn't appear to take any longer to measure/calculate... it's the "transferring response" that is extending the time... it really does seem to be isolated to the interface itself...
in order to test, we'd have to figure out a way to transfer some data to the avr... commands seem to work with no delay (as well as ack without delay), but that's a small amount of data...

I can't say I blame you, considering the circumstances of getting walloped by Frakenstorm and then follow-up snow in the Northeast...

The next question - if you're right about the interface being the issue (i.e. longer time is only after the chirps, but before the prompt for the next position/measurement), are there any defaults in the GUI that might be adjustable to take the "load" off the interface related to Ethernet or the hub? I would think probably not, but it's one avenue to look at.

Otherwise, as Ben and Jerry have said, it's a Denon hardware issue, or firmware issue. I'd almost hope the latter, because that's more fixable in the short term. Getting Denon to care is another matter.
post #867 of 7843
^^^

yea, i needed to get outside... nature refuges are still closed... frown.gif but did walk on boardwalk in ocean city for awhile and got some 'za... smile.gif it boggles the mind how much sand got moved so far inland...

nope, not that i'm aware of or could find... but that makes me wonder.... jerry, did you have the avr hooked to your network when you were running pro? mine was/is...
post #868 of 7843
Hi and thx again for the tips. I was away thats why I couldnt write sooner.
I did use toslink and I got the sound from the TV so thanks smile.gif
I was expecting to have the sound by using only Hdmi but apparently I was wrong wink.gif
Thats not good that via airplay you can play only audio not video frown.gif hope they can add videoes to airplay streaming to denon aswell.
All now working well with my Denon 4520 and I love the sound and picture quality smile.gif
I am trying to use the denon remote controll to control my Tv and ps3 and Cbl. Sofar only the Tv has been with success.
I am ordering an Oppo very soon. Which model you guys think I should choose from Oppo BDP-103 and 105? And how should I connect it to Denon in order to get the best quality?
post #869 of 7843
^^^

- i wouldn't hold my breath waiting for airplay video to the avr... best bet is to get an apple tv...

- 103 connected by hdmi...
post #870 of 7843

Here are my measurement comparisons once again:

 

700

 

As is clear from the details, only the two operations that involve data transfer using the serial interface are slower--the other steps are roughly the same. 

 

And yes, I am using all four ports on the network switch.  Not sure how that would affect serial port speeds, but if you think it would be worth it, I could run a quick 3-position calibration without any network connections to see if that would make any difference.

 

Stuart, I don't think anyone would justify the purchase based on a potential flatter bass response.  After all, I achieved a flat response with the 4311, just with a bit of tweaking.  IMO, the justification would be for the enhanced features or, in my case, a desire to have an XT32/Pro-capable AVR in the bedroom as well.

 

I'm going to ping Denon tomorrow to see if I can get them to comment on the serial port speed issue.

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