The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 4

I mistakenly posted "menu" which is the actual button on my MX-3000 and NOT on the Denon remote.  The Denon remote button that brings up the Picture Mode is OPTION.  While watching content, on the Denon remote you would press Option (no need to hit setup) and an onscreen menu pops up with Picture Mode being one of about 4 possible options including Zones, Save Favorites and Slideshow.  Picture Mode works quite well and is easy to access.  Other features like LFC are inside menus and I haven't yet found a way to access them directly as URC hasn't updated their database and I don't see that option in the previous model freq. databases (e.g. the 5308CI).

 

Haven't tried InstaPrevue yet but will take a look at it. 

 

Edit - I realized that the 4 macro buttons at the bottom of the remote are custom programmable.  Very likely that you could devote one of them to the LFC function as a macro.

Edited by flint350 - 9/27/12 at 9:43am

@flint 350 thanks so much for all of your posts much appreciated!
Someone has to be the first to ask this question, so here it is...
Have you ever heard and/or used an AVR-4311ci? If yes, how does the
4520 compare to it (sound quality, video quality, build quality, etc.)
Thanks again, congratulations and good luck w/everything.

The IR Code List that was found on the Australian site shows

RCKSK0410445 1 0 1 1 1 1 0 1 1 0 * * * * * * * * * * Audyssey LFC ON
RCKSK0410446 0 1 1 1 1 1 0 1 1 0 * * * * * * * * * * Audyssey LFC OFF
RCKSK0410456 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 1 1 0 * * * * * * * * * * Audyssey LFC ON/OFFF

You can find a list of every single discrete IR code in a file called "AVR4520_IR_CODE_V01.pdf" which is readily available on the Denon websites for several countries. The easiest way to turn this information into a useable hex code that can be imported into URC software is with a program called "Denon Pronto Hex Generator". It's a very easy GUI which converts the series of 0's and 1's into a hex code and automatically copies it to the clipboard for pasting into the URC universal browser so you can assign it to any button on your remote. I just finished programming all of the functions I wanted into my MX-980 remote using this method and it worked perfectly.

I don't currently use zones or bi-amp any speakers, so I am merely referring to what I can get from the (very decent) manual.  It appears that Zone 4 via HDMI supports all audio formats and most of the limitations are selective video conversion.  From the manual:

 

"You can operate this unit so as to enjoy audio in a room (ZONE2,ZONE3 and ZONE4) other than the MAIN ZONE (room where the unit is located).
• You can simultaneously play back the same source in both the MAIN ZONE, ZONE2, ZONE3 and ZONE4. You can also play back separate sources in the MAIN ZONE, ZONE2, ZONE3 and ZONE4.
• When a TV is connected to the HDMI ZONE4 OUT connector, you can play back a video or audio from the device connected to the HDMI 1 – 6 IN connector in ZONE4 (HDMI ZONE4 function).

 

The following restrictions apply to the HDMI ZONE4 function. • If you select a same input source for MAIN ZONE and ZONE4, audio playback may be restricted or video may be interrupted.
• Video may not be output depending on the resolution of the TV used for MAIN ZONE and ZONE4. In this case, use your player to set the resolution of the TV.
• When HDMI ZONE4 function is used, you cannot set the following:
• Picture Adjust • i/p Scaler
• Auto Lip Sync • Progressive Mode
• Video Mode • Aspect Ratio
• Video Conversion • Setup menu display"

 

As for bi-amping, based on what I see in the speaker matrix under all bi-amping scenarios (5.1, 7.1, 9.1) it appears that only the FR/FL get bi-amped.

Thanks jchasen the Denon Pronto Hex Generator is on remotecentral

Sorry, no.  I owned a very nice Denon AVR-4806, but nothing newer by Denon.  The 4520 certainly compares very favorably with my old 4806 (still in service in my office) though a lot lighter.  The 4520 is also lighter than the Onkyo 3009 but doesn't seem less sturdy or well built.  In my limited time with the 4520, I am very impressed all around and find the sound to be very clean.  Some of this is the "newness" factor I'm sure and probably my need to rationalize spending the $$$ after having just recently bought the Onkyo and now wanting to sell it.  But, I can't directly answer about a 4311 comparison.

It definitely has the HD tuner and it works quite well.  You can auto tune, direct tune or manual tune a frequency.  It is another use for the option button on the remote that Batpig mentioned.  Once you select Tuner, the option button will pop up a nice screen with the options for tuning, am/fm, favorites, frequency, etc.  Nothing else to buy that I see. 

jchasen and Irwinroad, thanks for the code info.  I will be going there and using those in my MX-3000.  There is still the availability of the 4 macro buttons for those w/o a programmable remote or if using only the Denon remote.

I'm envious, Flint! I keep looking for some place to get the 4520 in stock. No luck so far. I still have a Sony STR-GX99ES that only has Dolby ProLogic -- about 20 years old. It's still a work horse, but is about 15 surround technologies behind. I also have DefTech towers, the 7001's which I've had about 7 years now and the C/L/R 3000 which I finally bought last year when it was on closeout (since the new DefTech centers don't match up with the 7001's). I need to upgrade my rears and add side and front heights.

How does the 4520 sound with your speakers? I am really looking forward to this receiver .. I've been waiting for over a year for Denon to replace the aging 4810.
Edited by NFLnut - 9/27/12 at 10:51am

Flint, you have not really been able to compare the amp section of your 3009 vs 4520 though right?........ I guess your front three speakers have built in amp's. So I guess you can't really check out the amp's too much.......thanks for the other info though.

Yes, it appears you could assign two amps via custom to the Center and then bi-amp.  I'm still learning this beast and hadn't immersed myself in the Custom Amping yet. 

I have compared it to the 3009 and calibrated the 4520 using the same 8 Audyssey positions and gain settings on the towers and sub.  Those things being equal, the 4520 does not give up anything to the 3009 and seems to have a bit more headroom.  I'm far from expert at this and assume that, despite basically the same Audyssey processing, you can't really look at the volume setting between them for any useable difference.  However, when playing the Thor BD I had the Onkyo set at -22dB for loud but comfortable and the Denon sounds about the same in overall room filling sound at about -25dB.  The settings on the towers was never adjusted, but the rear surrounds are now added with the Denon (they went unused with the Onkyo as I chose Wides/Heights).  IMO the Denon sounds at least as good as the Onkyo, even when switching to Music modes and removing the rear surrounds.  I have no science or measurements to back any of this up, just my personal taste and probably some bias towards a new purchase that just cost me $$$. 

I've always loved my DefTechs and haven't considered replacing them while I've replaced several other components.  They sound terrific with both the Onkyo and the new Denon but seem to have even a bit more headroom with the Denon.  Whether this is due to the slight additional power of the Denon or new engineering or my bias is unknown.  But, they sound great and I have no directional issues with wide stage movies despite the trend away from dipoles.  Of course, I did go with direct radiators for the front effects channels (wide/height).  I sense a seamless soundstage and terrific surround directionality using some test material, including the Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master demos along with known Blu Ray scenes.

I was lucky enough to find one at a local Best Buy / Magnolia yesterday. The manager of the Magnolia department was not to pleased because this was targeted to be his demo hardware. They only received a single unit.

I have not opened it yet because my Sony SXRD TV's lamp crapped out a couple days ago so I didn't want to jump into setup until I have that running again. New lamp is scheduled for Friday delivery. The 4520CI will replace my Pioneer SC-07, which will move to the family room. I am looking forward to some new connectivity and control options.

I will be mating this to Paradigm Studio 100s v5. Audio is still very important to me so I hope this beast is least good as the Pioneer for audio quality. Even the early SC series had some pretty impressive DAC and pre-amp hardware.

I'll Keep you posted once unboxing begins.

Maybe I should take the receiver back and get a Panasonic 65" GT50.

I've had a bit more time today to follow up on some things and try a few of the features I hadn't gotten to.  Here's my continued take on things:

 

First, I found the pdf file of Denon codes and was able to add a few to my remote.  LFC is now a simple on/off toggle, which I prefer to discrete buttons.  It made the comparison much easier, so I re-visited the scenes in Thor that I mentioned earlier.  This verified what I already said but made it easier to be sure.  LFC definitely reduces the more thundering parts of the bass and gives less vibrations to the room surfaces, reducing the chance of transmitting those deep notes to other areas.  The default containment of 4 seems to be a pretty good place but it is adjustable to taste.  Still, I am leaving it off - but could foresee a quick use if something got really intense (there's a scene in Cabin in the Woods that can shake the paint off the walls and caught me by surprise).  Having it at the ready is far preferable to seeking it in the menus.  The macro still remains an option for those that need/want it.  I listened some more to the Thor soundtrack and continue to be impressed with the power and quality of the sound.  Imaging is very good in my large room and the soundstage remains open but controlled.

 

As I examined other features more fully, like the HD Radio interface, I found just how intuitive and graphically friendly the GUI/Menu system is in the Denon compared to the Onkyo.  The Denon 4520 is much nicer and easier to navigate, puts more info into see-through scrolling windows of options and provides cleaner content.  For example, in the Onkyo you can call up the audio submenu to see what signal is coming in and how you want to output it (e.g. DTS-MA going out as Neo-X).  But, this takes a couple of different menus and the list scrolls right to left individually.  The video options do this as well but blank the screen as you change (through-direct-custom) in the Onkyo.  In the Denon, a simple press and hold of the "audio" button a few seconds gives a nice gui list of about 6 options to select from and switch to directly, with less scrolling and menu selection.  In the HD Radio menu, the Denon found many of my local stations automatically, but I also added a couple through "Direct Tune".  It then became a simple and intuitive task to quickly add the stations to the many presets available.  The HD Radio page has a nice display of the station, category, signal strength, etc.  As I get more familiar with the menu system of the Denon, I much prefer it to the Onkyo and find it easier to learn without too many trips to the manual.  Make no mistake, I liked the Onkyo for sound and video performance, this is a menu / GUI thing.  In performance, the Denon seems to take input switching better than the Onkyo which has clicking solenoids as inputs are changed.

 

Speaking of inputs, as Batpig asked, I decided to try out InstaPrevue, which I added with the discrete codes - though there is a button on the Denon remote for this directly.  It works exceedingly well!  I currently have 4 devices connected and had them all on.  When I engaged InstaPrevue, almost immediately 4 sized windows appeared across the bottom of the screen showing the current content of each active device.  One was displaying HDD content, another was on pause in a video scene, etc.  Switching between them was just a cursor movement away and worked without lag or delay other than the handshake to the new device.  I wasn't planning on using this feature, but may change my mind as it was quite impressive for what it does.

 

Considering the depth of features, Denon has done a very good job in its use of the Option key, which takes on different roles depending on what you are trying to do/adjust.  It makes diving into the various Audio or Video modes as simple as possible without having to go into Setup and drill down into menus.  The only thing I missed was not finding a discrete code for the Vertical Stretch feature.  It is one that apparently has to done via menu and is just not convenient to do 'on the fly', so I will continue to use that feature in my projector.  It's possible I could program a macro button for it and may look into that.  So far, I am not looking back, only forward.  Like InstaPrevue, there are probably other features that will surprise and impress me.  As I read the manual, I keep finding things I want to try.  Great fun.

Re: Macro button .... although helpful for selecting source devices and turning them on/off, the issue with past remotes is that when calling up a menu, the menu pointer remains at the last item selected when used previously rather than always defaulting to the first item in the menu's list. So with the 4520's remote, if you select the SETUP button will the pointer default to the first item in the list (Audio) everytime? What happens when you select another item (eg. "Inputs") and then back out from that point? If you press SETUP again, does the pointer return to "Inputs" or "Audio"?

And...give the man a cigar.  You are correct.  Though it has an 18 step capable macro recording function, the menus do indeed remain on 'last selected' which nullifies doing this sort of thing by macro.  The steps are not repeatable.  Since there is no shortcut on the remote even to the main menu where the Stretch is located, you would have to go through Setup/Video/HDMI to get to the setting.  If any of those menus are changed by some other setting, the macro will be thwarted.  Not a big deal to me, as I have the aspect ratio control in my projector. But, to use that feature in the Denon, the user will have to drill down the menu tree to set it.  It's not difficult, just not as convenient if you tend to change back and forth.  I never would have thought of that limitation and probably would have ended up frustrating myself wondering why the macro worked at first but stopped after that. 

Thanks for confirming.

For those asking if DSX or Neo:X is better, my view is it comes down to personal preference. I have the Onkyo 3010, and am using 9.2 with front heights, but I find Neo:X has a better surround sound "feel" to it...in other words, the surrounds (and heights) are more pronounced. I like that. I recommend simply trying both. I find NFL football in Neo:X makes me feel like I am in the stands! The crowd sounds to my sides and rear are FAR more pronounced than those to the front - which is the way it should be since those in front of me are on the other side of the stadium.

Would you be so kind as to either PM me, or better still post the MX-980 file ? Users of other MX-**** remotes can use the universal browser funtion to impoty from it.

Many thanks

I'm not sure posting my MX-980 file would help as I only imported the few discrete functions that I wanted to use, not the whole very long list. I think any person could just use the Denon Pronto hex Generator program to make the codes for whatever discrete functions they need.

Some one can chime in if I'm not supposed to do this, but here's the HexGen GUI program I used and the list of all the IR codes from Denon that you need to use it with:

DenonHexGen.zip 514k .zip file
AVR4520_IR_CODE_V01.pdf 627k .pdf file

OK, that makes sense, I assumed (wrongly) you had done the lot.

Reading the Australian manual (thank you Batpig), it's nice to see the support for Apple Lossless (up to 96 kHz) from the USB/NAS etc. One can always use a Apple TV or Airport Express to get around this, but those are limited to 48 kHz. It doesn't state 24-bit so I hope it is not limited to 16-bit. And the optical out from a AE cannot be distributed to zone 2/3, while the network input can.

Strangely enough it doesn't support the uncompressed Apple format: AIFF. I use both ALAC and AIFF. Fair enough, I can always convert. Never noticed difference in SQ. Just figured AIFF would be more universal. Yeah right. Other devices support AIFF, but not ALAC (Cambridge Audio, I believe)!

AFAIK, Denon and Marantz units have never supported AIFF.

Okay, thanks.

yes... that is rather neat...

flint, couple more questions on insta-preview...

are the windows movable?
can they be re-sized?