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The **OFFICIAL** DENON AVR-4520CI thread - Page 32

post #931 of 4531
11/14/12 at 11:49pm
Try running Audyssey once more, an odd mic position in a null spot might put the readings off. Cheers.
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post #932 of 4531
11/15/12 at 1:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa_laz View Post

So I got my 4520 thru today from AVS (thanks again Mike!), but i'm noticing something odd which I hope isn't a problem with the amp, rather something i've done or setup wrong.
I've got the 4520 all setup now for 11.1 (9.1 with the front highs pre-out'd to another power amp), ran thru all of the Aud. cailbration, and all the input setup done thru the GUI nice and smoothly.
I've put most of the inputs to NEO:X to use the 11 channels - in case that is a cause of the problem.
But the volume level seems really low out of the amp - significantly lower than my old 3806 was! Watching Cable TV from my Tivo I have to have the volume up at 50+ for a comfortable listening level - and I'm not one for needing a crazy high volume level.
When I tried to push the new setup with some blu-rays (or airplay or any input), to see how the 11 channels sound , I was having to push the volume past 65 to get any real volume, and then the amp started to shut itself off - the power light starts flashing red, and until it goes back to a solid red light I cannot turn it back on again,
Anyone got an idea on this issue, or am I going to be needing to get an RMA number and send the unit back?
-David

Unlike on your 3806, on the newer model Denon AVRs , reference volume (ie. 85db+) is set to a master volume of 0db (relative)/80 (absolute) when Audyssey Dyn EQ is enabled. The AVR master volume will have to be raised above -50db/50 for any appreciable volume with normal TV viewing being about -35db to -25db/45 to 55 and normal movie/music listening about -25db to -15db/55 to 65. The AVR should be able to go to at least 0db/80 without shutting down so check for loose speaker wire strands from one post touching another post as that is the most common reason for shutting down at higher volumes.
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post #933 of 4531
11/15/12 at 1:33am
The loss of a channel level button on the 4520 is unfortunate, I sometimes like to make small adjustments "on the fly" without having to go into the menu/test tones...forgive me if this has been asked before, but if you point a 4311 or 4x10 remote at the 4520 and press the CH level button, does the old GUI still come up? Is there any other workaround? Thanks.
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post #934 of 4531
11/15/12 at 1:41am
The "CH LVL" button was only carried foward on the new 1513. In most cases, only the center channel and sub are generally "tweaked" on the fly and in both cases, these settings can be adjusted using the 4520CI remote ....

Center ----> Setup - Audio - Dialogue Enhancer (p. 121 OM)

Sub ----> Setup - Audio - Subwoofer Level (p. 121 OM)
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post #935 of 4531
11/15/12 at 3:06am
Thanks jd. I remember reading some posts earlier in the thread by 4520 owners who were able to access some things not on the 4520 remote/menus/front panel by either programming 4311 codes into a universal and/or just using the old remote(s). Just wondering if anyone had tried this and maybe the old channel level GUI might appear...
Edited by davidbarrickman - 11/15/12 at 3:12am
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post #936 of 4531
11/15/12 at 3:17am
Right .. have to wait for an owner to respond to the older remote question.
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post #937 of 4531
11/15/12 at 4:19am
I was able to program my Logitech Harmony 880 remote with Hex codes so I could set the channel levels (all of them, not just center and sub) if that can be any help. I had tried using my AVR-2807 remote to change the channel levels (which was possible on the AVR-2807) and it did not work. But if you have any Harmony remote, it is possible to do.
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post #938 of 4531
11/15/12 at 5:34am
Folks,

Noticed a lot of dicussion about remotes and using codes from other Denons with the 4520. I have a pronto ccf and associated spread sheets with the full Denon code set for the 5803, a lot of which work with my 5800 and should work with the 4520 for things like channel level adjustment etc


I also have these imported into a URC MX950 file, form which they can be grabbed and copied into most other URC remotes. PM me if you want them, or if anybody has a share site you can have them to upload ot it.
Keith
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post #939 of 4531
11/15/12 at 7:18am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidbarrickman View Post

The loss of a channel level button on the 4520 is unfortunate, I sometimes like to make small adjustments "on the fly" without having to go into the menu/test tones...forgive me if this has been asked before, but if you point a 4311 or 4x10 remote at the 4520 and press the CH level button, does the old GUI still come up? Is there any other workaround? Thanks.

The CH LEVEL button no longer works on the new models. If you want to tweak levels you can add the individual speaker volume discretely to your programmable universal remote. If you missed it go back and look for posts by "kaphely" where he talked about the process. This post on my website is a good starting point: http://batpigworld.com/wp/?p=106
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post #940 of 4531
11/15/12 at 9:32am
I'm looking at page 130 of the user manual, vertical stretch.

Is this Denon speak for anamorphic mode?

I have an panamorph UH380 a-lens, and use my sony VW60 anamorphic mode to stretch up/down - the lens stretchs width, will this be same?
If so, that opens up other PJ's for scope usage w/o needing an extrrnal video processor.
copy/paste from the manual:
Quote:
Vertical Stretch
Sets whether video signals
are vertically stretched or
not.
On : Stretches video signals vertically.
Off : Does not stretch video signals vertically.
“Vertical Stretch” can be set when “i/p Scaler” is set to anything
other than “Off”.

My sony VW60 below
SonyScreenMode.jpg
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post #941 of 4531
11/15/12 at 10:05am

If you have an OPPO BR, it also does the vertical stretch.  I was using the vw95 to stretch the image for my U380 also, but when I had it calibrated the calibrator noted that the sony would lose some sharpness in it's stretched mode compared to normal viewing.  The OPPO's vert stretch didn't change sharpness/resolution from the 95's non stretched image.  Bear in mind, this required close screen inspection with a test pattern, I don't think I could notice it on video material.

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post #942 of 4531
11/15/12 at 11:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidbarrickman View Post

Thanks jd. I remember reading some posts earlier in the thread by 4520 owners who were able to access some things not on the 4520 remote/menus/front panel by either programming 4311 codes into a universal and/or just using the old remote(s). Just wondering if anyone had tried this and maybe the old channel level GUI might appear...


I still have my 4806 which had that feature, so I tried it on the 4520 - no joy.  You can, as others have said, use a programmable remote like the URC to do it though.

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post #943 of 4531
11/15/12 at 11:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

I'm looking at page 130 of the user manual, vertical stretch.
Is this Denon speak for anamorphic mode?
I have an panamorph UH380 a-lens, and use my sony VW60 anamorphic mode to stretch up/down - the lens stretchs width, will this be same?
If so, that opens up other PJ's for scope usage w/o needing an extrrnal video processor.
copy/paste from the manual:
 

My Oppo BD-93 and my Projector both offer the anamorphic stretch and those are what I generally use with my A-lens.  I did, however, try the Denon vertical stretch and, for some reason, could not get it to work.  I didn't really dig deeply into why as I already have a viable method in place, but remain puzzled about it.  I also noticed that my Denon OSD disappeared when I turned off Video Conversion.  Two video anomalies that I have to investigate further when I get around to it.

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post #944 of 4531
11/15/12 at 12:34pm
>> In addition to source level, check channel levels...did you run Audyssey? If so, where does Audyssey have the channel levels set at?
>> I would also suggest changing the volume display from "absolute" (0-99) to "relative"
>> (-80dB - 18 dB) in the 4520's option menu. (absolute is the new default, used to be the other way around...) Report back with your channel level info and at what master volume your AVR is going into protect mode ( -10 dB?0 dB? 5 dB? -20 dB?)
>>
>> it's going into shutdown somewhere around -11dB to -8 dB

I ran Audyssey yes, the channel level info is :-

FR L -5.5dB
FR R -5.5db
C -3.5db
Sub 1 -5.0dB

Sur L 0dB
Sur R +12dB
Sur Back L -1.5db
Sur Back R -2.0dB
F Hi L -0.5dB
F Hi R -1.0dB
F Wide L 0.5dB
F Wide R -0.5dB


>> Try running Audyssey once more, an odd mic position in a null spot might put the readings off. Cheers.

i'll retry the Audyssey run right now - the surround R number seems really odd!

>> Unlike on your 3806, on the newer model Denon AVRs , reference volume (ie. 85db+) is set to a master volume of 0db (relative)/80 (absolute) when Audyssey Dyn EQ is enabled. The AVR master volume will have to be raised above -50db/50 for any appreciable volume with >> normal TV viewing being about -35db to -25db/45 to 55 and normal movie/music listening about -25db to -15db/55 to 65. The AVR should be able to go to at least 0db/80 without shutting down so check for loose speaker wire strands from one post touching another post as that is >> the most common reason for shutting down at higher volumes.

Yeah -50dB on the TV input has a really low (just audible) volume, -35dB is 'normal' TV volume. It's definitely quieter than my old 3806 was, which is kind of funny. Time to get that xpa-3 for the front channels I guess!

so taking the +12dB on the Aud report as an odditiy, I checked the cabling into that speaker, and it was a little frayed, so I stripped it back and reconnected it all up. That fixed the shutdown issue - can take the volume all the way up now with my problems if I want to!

The only odd thing I have seen is that I thought i'd re-run Audyssey again now the cable was fixed (rather than just manually turning the level of that one speaker down to a more sensible level), but every time I run it I get 2 or more speaker now reporting being out of phase - none of which reported out of phase in the past. All the wiring is in phase, i've checked and double checked. Oddly it's different speakers reporting being out of phase on most runs of the Audyssey run - one or 2 consistently, but a few variable depending on the run?


thanks everyone for the things to try out.

-David
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post #945 of 4531
11/15/12 at 12:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa_laz View Post

>> In addition to source level, check channel levels...did you run Audyssey? If so, where does Audyssey have the channel levels set at?
>> I would also suggest changing the volume display from "absolute" (0-99) to "relative"
>> (-80dB - 18 dB) in the 4520's option menu. (absolute is the new default, used to be the other way around...) Report back with your channel level info and at what master volume your AVR is going into protect mode ( -10 dB?0 dB? 5 dB? -20 dB?)
>>
>> it's going into shutdown somewhere around -11dB to -8 dB
I ran Audyssey yes, the channel level info is :-
FR L -5.5dB
FR R -5.5db
C -3.5db
Sub 1 -5.0dB
Sur L 0dB
Sur R +12dB
Sur Back L -1.5db
Sur Back R -2.0dB
F Hi L -0.5dB
F Hi R -1.0dB
F Wide L 0.5dB
F Wide R -0.5dB
>> Try running Audyssey once more, an odd mic position in a null spot might put the readings off. Cheers.
i'll retry the Audyssey run right now - the surround R number seems really odd!
>> Unlike on your 3806, on the newer model Denon AVRs , reference volume (ie. 85db+) is set to a master volume of 0db (relative)/80 (absolute) when Audyssey Dyn EQ is enabled. The AVR master volume will have to be raised above -50db/50 for any appreciable volume with >> normal TV viewing being about -35db to -25db/45 to 55 and normal movie/music listening about -25db to -15db/55 to 65. The AVR should be able to go to at least 0db/80 without shutting down so check for loose speaker wire strands from one post touching another post as that is >> the most common reason for shutting down at higher volumes.
Yeah -50dB on the TV input has a really low (just audible) volume, -35dB is 'normal' TV volume. It's definitely quieter than my old 3806 was, which is kind of funny. Time to get that xpa-3 for the front channels I guess!
so taking the +12dB on the Aud report as an odditiy, I checked the cabling into that speaker, and it was a little frayed, so I stripped it back and reconnected it all up. That fixed the shutdown issue - can take the volume all the way up now with my problems if I want to!
The only odd thing I have seen is that I thought i'd re-run Audyssey again now the cable was fixed (rather than just manually turning the level of that one speaker down to a more sensible level), but every time I run it I get 2 or more speaker now reporting being out of phase - none of which reported out of phase in the past. All the wiring is in phase, i've checked and double checked. Oddly it's different speakers reporting being out of phase on most runs of the Audyssey run - one or 2 consistently, but a few variable depending on the run?
thanks everyone for the things to try out.
-David

 

"Surround left = 0, surround right = +12" looks peculiar, and could indicate something is wrong.  Can this be explained?

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post #946 of 4531
11/15/12 at 2:30pm
AustinJerry,

You may have overlooked that papa_laz fixed the +12 by redoing the connections on that speaker's cable. (+12 indicates that the speaker is too quiet and Audyssey had to turn its gain up to max to hear anything.)

papa_laz,

If you know the phasing is correct, you should be able to select "continue" to proceed with the calibration. I seem to recall that some people believe that Audyssey reports a phase problem when it gets confused by reflections. You might want to consider some physical room treatments.
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post #947 of 4531
11/15/12 at 3:51pm

^ Yes, of course, my apology.  I am a victim of skim-reading.

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post #948 of 4531
11/15/12 at 9:09pm
Just got my 4520 today and spent the last hour or 2 setting it up. A few comments/questions on first glance.

I am upgrading from the Denon 3802.

First, as I have stated in prior posts, I have it hooked up to my Pioneer Elite via component output, given that there is no HDMI.

Contrary to what I understood from replies on the thread all menus and setupscreens are clearly visable on my TV via component outputs.

Ipod.Ipade menus and network menus as well as pandora and spotivy menus and album covers were clearly visable.

1) My first question is about Spotify. I am using the 30 day trial, but I cannot seem to find a list of, or a way to play radiostations on Spotify on the Denon, although it is easy to do from my Iphone or Ipad.

Search results within spotify are also not very helpful, giving many names listed without much way to tell one song from another. It is much easier to find a song on the ipad, then save it to a folder and then open the file on the Denon then to play it.

2) Started programming my Logitach Harmony One, and I read somewhere either here, or on a link from here, that the Power toggle should be learned from the factory remote so that it does not turn all zones on, like the Harmony seems to do.

Is there a discrete ON that does NOT turn on all zones (and if not, does it really make much difference if nothing is hooked to the other zones, or does it use more power anyway?)

3) and my last question tonight, is regarding headphone out. I prior used a digital out (optical or coaxial), from my Denon 3802 to my wireless Pioneer headphone base unit, which worked great. Someone on this thread suggested I use Zone 2 analog out instead. The headphones have dolbey digital which I guess will not work with analog out, but a guess a fair workaround if I could just get the analog to work.

My audio inputs to the receiver are all digital, and I would hope the receiver would convert this to zone 2 analog outputs, but I seem to get no sound output to the headphones. Any thoughts?

Overall, otherwise, I seem to really like the reciever so for.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts/answers.
Edited by Tachy - 11/15/12 at 9:16pm
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post #949 of 4531
11/16/12 at 2:48am
3. Denon dropped the PCM 2.0 over optical/digital coax to Zone 2 capability with the release of the 3313CI and 4520CI.
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post #950 of 4531
11/16/12 at 3:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa_laz View Post

So I got my 4520 thru today from AVS (thanks again Mike!), but i'm noticing something odd which I hope isn't a problem with the amp, rather something i've done or setup wrong.
I've got the 4520 all setup now for 11.1 (9.1 with the front highs pre-out'd to another power amp), ran thru all of the Aud. cailbration, and all the input setup done thru the GUI nice and smoothly.
I've put most of the inputs to NEO:X to use the 11 channels - in case that is a cause of the problem.
But the volume level seems really low out of the amp - significantly lower than my old 3806 was! Watching Cable TV from my Tivo I have to have the volume up at 50+ for a comfortable listening level - and I'm not one for needing a crazy high volume level.
When I tried to push the new setup with some blu-rays (or airplay or any input), to see how the 11 channels sound , I was having to push the volume past 65 to get any real volume, and then the amp started to shut itself off - the power light starts flashing red, and until it goes back to a solid red light I cannot turn it back on again,
Anyone got an idea on this issue, or am I going to be needing to get an RMA number and send the unit back?
-David

Try setting Dynamic Volume to OFF. ( Audio / Audyssey / Dynamic Volume )
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post #951 of 4531
11/16/12 at 5:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^
that's one of the reasons it's on my christmas list... enough "people i trust" have given it their seal of approval... and it's cheap too...

Don't know if I am one whom you trust wink.gif, but I am using the Darblet with the 4520. I recommend it highly. Maybe you need a Thanksgiving Day present?

and the thanksgiving present is on its way... wink.gif

who out there is using zone 4 out? if anyone, what kind of behaviour are you getting if you try to send the same source to zone 1 and 4 and the sinks differ in capabilities? does it merely send lowest common denominator (hoped for), or not work at all?
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post #952 of 4531
11/16/12 at 6:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tachy View Post

2) Started programming my Logitach Harmony One, and I read somewhere either here, or on a link from here, that the Power toggle should be learned from the factory remote so that it does not turn all zones on, like the Harmony seems to do.
Is there a discrete ON that does NOT turn on all zones (and if not, does it really make much difference if nothing is hooked to the other zones, or does it use more power anyway?)

The reason you don't want to power on all zones is that InstaPreview will not work if zone 4 is active. If you don't want to use InstaPreview, then it may not make a difference to you. When you are learning the command for the Harmony, make sure the Denon remote is set to the Main Zone, and then learn the Power On key.
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post #953 of 4531
11/16/12 at 6:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

and the thanksgiving present is on its way... wink.gif

Nice! I'm looking forward to your comments on the new present.
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post #954 of 4531
11/16/12 at 7:22am
A few hours ago I did a firmware update (46 min) to version 3325-0792-1445 (in Europe). One thing is still not fixed. The separate 2 channel direct setup mode is grayed-out in most amp assign modes, but settings are still applied in most (all?) other modes. It is easy to check this by setting subwoofer to LFE+main even with Large speakers here in one of the few amp modes this setting is available. Switching back to the desired mode the subwoofer is displayed on the front in direct or pure direct mode (and sound is coming out of the subwoofer). Is this graying out a thing on European models only?
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post #955 of 4531
11/16/12 at 7:44am
@jerry...

i no doubt will have some... smile.gif

quick q on that... did you place it close to the avr or close to the display? with any of the boxes i introduced into the chain after the video left the 4311 (lumagen, 3dbee, splitter), it didn't seem to matter.. so far on the 4520, i'm only using the lumagen, and it's close to the avr, but will be moved close to the pj soon...

some things i thought of for people to do when we get bored... biggrin.gif

if anyone else has gone from a 4311 to a 4520, it'd be interesting (well, to me, anyway) to do some experimentation here to see if the hdmi output signal strength has been bumped up... in the 4311 thread, occasionally users would post issues that indicated the hdmi output signal strength could have been better (i didn't experience this, as alluded to above)...

another thing that would be interesting to see is if people who had issues with bandwidth piggy things like deep color passing through the 4311 (although there's no real good reason to use it, unless you have a true deep color source) still have the issue with the 4520...
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post #956 of 4531
11/16/12 at 8:41am

^ Hey Chris,

 

I placed the Darblet close to the display (3" HDMI cable), with a 20" HDMI cable to the 4520.  I didn't try both, but the Darblet form factor and appearance didn't fit well with my equipment rack.  BTW, I'm sure you have read on the Darblet thread, some have used IR extenders so that the Darblet can be placed completely out of sight.  I tried this, but for some reason, the extender didn't work well for me.  YMMV

 

I can't comment on the other 4311-to-4520 conversion topics, since I never have had HDMI issues with either AVR.

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post #957 of 4531
11/16/12 at 9:30am
Just took the plunge on a 4520, upgrading from a 4310.

I have it set up in a 7.1 configuration with front wides instead of surround back and bi-amping the front channels.

Took me a little while to figure out the amp assignments smile.gif

Overall I'm very pleased with this receiver, and have had no issues. Sound is similar to my 4310.

I really like the different sound modes.

Played with the dialogue enhancer a little bit, but I find I don't need it with my set up.

Do most of you use Dynamic Volume? I use the Dynamic EQ, but tend to leave Dyn Vol off.

I like the ethernet switch, which allows me to ditch my stand-alone switch.

Missing the blue DSX light like many others. Miss the simultaneous input & output channel display on the front.

REALLY miss the AC outlets on the back that my 4310 has.
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post #958 of 4531
11/16/12 at 9:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RSTide View Post

Just took the plunge on a 4520, upgrading from a 4310.

I have it set up in a 7.1 configuration with front wides instead of surround back and bi-amping the front channels.

Took me a little while to figure out the amp assignments smile.gif

Overall I'm very pleased with this receiver, and have had no issues. Sound is similar to my 4310.

I really like the different sound modes.

Played with the dialogue enhancer a little bit, but I find I don't need it with my set up.

Do most of you use Dynamic Volume? I use the Dynamic EQ, but tend to leave Dyn Vol off.

I like the ethernet switch, which allows me to ditch my stand-alone switch.

Missing the blue DSX light like many others. Miss the simultaneous input & output channel display on the front.

REALLY miss the AC outlets on the back that my 4310 has.

I use AC outlets on the back of my 4308 to power the IR>BT adapter so I can power up my P3 with a Harmony remote, now I'll have to find another open plug for that.....

I also like the simultaneous input & output channel display on the 4308 front, tells me what's going on audio wise, can live without it but questions why on a top tier AVR did Denon remove it?
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post #959 of 4531
11/16/12 at 11:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtbdudex View Post

I use AC outlets on the back of my 4308 to power the IR>BT adapter so I can power up my P3 with a Harmony remote, now I'll have to find another open plug for that.....
I also like the simultaneous input & output channel display on the 4308 front, tells me what's going on audio wise, can live without it but questions why on a top tier AVR did Denon remove it?

I am going to try a smart switch power strip and see if that works.

Re: the front display I have no idea why they would change a long-standing denon tradition and useful feature of displaying both input and output channels.
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post #960 of 4531
11/16/12 at 1:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RSTide View Post

Re: the front display I have no idea why they would change a long-standing denon tradition and useful feature of displaying both input and output channels.

penny wise but pound foolish?
I truly hate these cost savings measures, not in their higher end AVR's......unless they are using common circuits with their lower end AVR's and that drove the change.....
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