Audiophilia Newbie Looking to Expand System

Hello Everyone,

I am a newbie to Stereophile equipment and I wanted to get advice on some possible Speakers and maybe an amp or receiver. Here is the equipment I have so far:

Pioneer PL-514 modified with some insulation upgrades and a Shure V-15 3 with Ed Saunders Needle.

Pioneer BDP-51FD Blu-Ray player (it has 4 Wolfson DAC's)

Sony STR-DA1E 5.1 Channel Receive running 2 Pansonic bookshelfs in stereo and a center and 2 rear surround Sony's (All horrid speakers).

Polk Audio RM1000W 10" subwoofer (no amp yet).

Cables:

DH Labs Silver BL-1 (Silver over copper)

Zu Audio Oxyfuel

HomeGrown Audio Super Silver (Pure silver)

BlueJeansCable Belden with Canare connectors.

I am debating whether to just leave the 5.1 Channel Receiver and get a good stereo amp for the Turntable that I can also run a SACD transport on. I would love to get a Tube amp but unfortunately all of them seem to be stratospheric in price. My price range is in the $100-$200 range I want something used that's not been outsourced to a developing country (AKA Made in Europe, USA, or Japan).

I have seen many B&K receivers sell in this range and I really like the Onkyo TX-NR5000E although I have yet to see one used anywhere. Another option is a Marantz SR 8000 or 9000. So these might be an option but I don't know how much of a sound difference they would give.

As far as speakers go I have seen many on Craigslist for the $100-200 range, especially Polk Audio. Any recommendations as far as speakers? I want them to be aesthetically pleasing as well as for them to sound good. I quite like some 90s A/D/S speakers I have seen but need more recommendations and specific ones.

I wasn't thinking of buying anything new at all, more like used gems. Some examples are: I bought a Pioneer BDP-51FD in Mint condition for $80 Including shipping (IE around $50, was $600 new), Super Silver HGA cables for $50 (Were $230 new). You can even buy a receiver that was $2000 new just 10 years ago that was Made in Japan and now costs $200 on eBay or Craigslist. B&K is a great example of this... Just like you can buy a used Loewe TV for $100 that cost $3500 new 10 years ago and still beats out many modern sets in terms of contrast, colour, and definitely black levels. I guess I am looking for the audio equivalent of this in terms of a Receiver OR Amplifier and Speakers.

Any advice you can give this newbie would be great. I have been reading Good Sound by Laura Dearbourne and it has really been an eye opener for me! Thank you all in advance and I am very much looking forward to all your replies.
Edited by BaronKatz - 9/18/12 at 5:18pm

So I've decided to upgrade my speakers first and upgrade my receiver/amp/preamp later. So I am debating between two options: passive speakers directly to receiver or active speakers via a preamp. I want to get The speakers I have been seeing in my price range so far include:

Mirage M-790's

JBL Northridge E90's or 100's

ADS L1290 or L1590 (If I can find them in my price range)

Polk Audio Towers

Paradigm Export Bipolar

B&O Penta (Built in amplifier). For these speakers or Active ones, I would get a pre-amp. Has anyone any experience with the DavidYeeAudio Tube Preamps or Amps? How about something like the Luxman LV-103 or 105 Hybrids? They seem pretty inexpensive but I'm not sure how the sound quality is on them... Supposedly they are handmade by him in Canada.

Please help me narrow down the list to see what the best would be within my budget. I could also get Spica TC-50s or something similar but I prefer Towers... If you have any that should be removed from the list or any other ones I should be searching for to add to the list please let me know. I am looking for the best sound quality possible within my budget but also with a decent design (I prefer Black speakers that look sleek, not old looking brown 70s style ones). I prefer Speakers from the 80s-90s or perhaps the early 00s at the latest. Thank you!

I wanted to try the Tube Amp thing out. But as mentioned I will start with upgrading the speakers. I just need to make sure they are not underpowered by my receivers as that would really cause distortion. Speakers must be matched well to the amp. This I guess is where Active designs are the easiest as you never have to search for matching.

Well the speakers I bought about 20 years ago, before I even got into any of this audiophile stuff. It was just from a boombox I had as a kid. The reason I got those silver cables is that a. I love everything silver and I know that silver is a better conductor (probably the best) of electricity and b. I don't buy anything that's been outsourced to a developing country. Hence why I wouldn't buy Monoprice ones or other such ones. I bought them for a mere $50, and they retail for $230 and are handmade in the USA, so I got quite a steel on them and don't plan on selling them. I believe that speaker cables do make a difference, just like good video cables do. The Zu audio I got for free and the other one I bought for $30 so I can't really complain!

Thank you for your concern. Although, yes it is a much better deal than a $10 one made from inferior materials in China where it cost the company pennies to make. The silver content alone of the wire will probably be worth a lot, plus the more expensive labour in the US and the higher quality materials used and it being completely handmade and terminated and a lower production run. It means the profit margin of HomeGrown Audio along with many such companies is MUCH less than with the Chinese made ones. On top of this I got it for about 1/5 the actual full price, So yes, I believe I am getting a better deal for all of the above reasons... Especially considering the cheapest US Made ones you can probably buy is $20-$30 a meter pair and that's for Belden or Mogami copper cable, not silver. But even then I would rather spend $20-$30 for that rather than close to the same amount for a Chinese made Monster cable or other that will be much inferior and will cost them pennies to make...

I am on Audio Asylum as well. People seem to have more suggestions (instead of criticisms) there as do people on Audio Karma.

As for technical specs, these are a lot better cables than most and not because they are silver. My point was that it has better build quality and better materials used, higher attention to detail, better soldering or crimping, etc... What does this lead to? A more reliable and better built cable that will last much longer. Whether it produces better sound is up to the individuals ears and everyone has their own opinions about that. A Louis Vuitton wallet that's made in France might serve the same purposes as a $5 Chinese wallet but of course the Louis Vuitton wallet will be much higher quality, have better leather, much higher stitching details (possibly be hand stitched in some places), will feel much better, look much better, and will last for many years. I've had mine for the past 5 and abused the hell out of it and it still looks like new, can't say that about other cheaper wallets I have owned. Same goes for higher quality interconnects, cheap Chinese ones I have owned (including Monster Cable) have time and again degraded over time and never had the resolution I was looking for to begin with, plus they looked and felt cheap and that bothered me too...

I am not asking for "Everything" in one. Look at my requirements: I am looking for USED equipment from the 80s or 90s (much decent equipment was made in the USA, Canada or Europe back then) and that's decent quality within my price range. It's not Jewellery that I am looking for, I was merely making a comparison of build quality, and Speakers don't last a century but well built ones will last longer than cheaper built ones. As far as not wanting outsourced products, this is a personal choice I do not care to discuss here and has to do more with my principles than anything. Anyway most of the speakers that people have suggested to me in the past were made in the USA, Canada or Scandinavia anyway!

I have seen the following speakers already within my price range, all of which are supposed to be pretty high quality and are all Made in the USA or Canada:

Mirage M-790's

JBL Northridge E90's or 100's

ADS L1290 or L1590 (although these are harder to find in my price range)

Polk Audio Towers

Paradigm Export Bipolar

I just need peoples advice on what other suggestions they have about specific speakers to buy, not criticisms. I guess this forum is not really the place for that since people are rude and judgemental instead of giving sound advice for specific models as I requested. I guess people at Audio Karma and Audio Asylum actually know speaker models that they can suggest in my price range with my requirements but people here simply do not...

Unfortunately I haven't had the chance to listen to any of them. The biggest problem is that I don't have any friends that have any of these speakers and I can't go around to every sellers house to try them out as I don't have the time and unfortunately they might sound differently on their system with their amp than it will on mine. Unfortunately I just need to figure out which of these has the highest fidelity possible and go from there. So far people have been suggesting the ADS as nobody has said any criticisms for them but they are hard to find in the $200 range.

Thank you for your suggestion, if it comes down to it I will add the extra $50 from my pocket if it's that much better of a speaker. I won't sell those cables as I won't find ones like that for that price range ever again and I could probably sell them and make a profit but won't because I like them and believe that sound quality does differ based on the cables (to a certain extent). I believe $50 for an excellent cable is a great price, especially considering it takes many hours to break them in and they have already been broken in for me

Have you or anyone ever read Laura Dearbourne's excellent book Good Sound? Probably the best book ever written on hi-fi, and I am getting the most advice on setup from her but there just aren't many specific suggestions. It's just that there aren't many suggestions on specifics... I would prefer towers or something of the sort rather than speakers on Stands... The search continues...

Thanks you guys have been a great help! I think I will stick with Audio Karma (and possibly Audio Asylum) for help on this, since they are giving me a lot more concrete answers to my questions instead of criticizing. Plus they stick with more of my "Beliefs" than what is on here. But I guess that's because those are Audiophile forums where as this is just an A/V forum. I will stick to posting Video questions on here and leave Audio out...

Ok I might try that, thank you. As mentioned I was just looking for concrete advice on what most people would consider a better speaker. For example, I haven't heard anyone say anyything bad about ADS L1290's or L1590s, everyone praises them, this is just one example. Not everyone feels the same way about certain speakers from Polk, Klipsch, JBL or others because they have so many varrying models and even within the higher end ones peoples opinion vary greatly. I only mention ADS as that would be a good recommendation for someone who might not have a chance to hear some or any of the used speakers in his price range he is looking for...

Whether there is a perceptible audible difference or not is up for debate. Some people say that it sounds too bright for them, most probably wouldn't notice much of a difference. However, there is a scientific basis for the FACT that silver is a better conductor of electricity (and heat) than copper. Again, whether this makes any audible difference is up for debate. Simply put, it's worth more money because of it's better construction, better soldering, crimping, better connectors, etc... There are other cables out there with a similar construction made of Copper that cost twice or even quadruple the price, why skimp on materials if charging so much? I understand why BJC and others couldn't afford to use silver but if I'm paying $300+ I would prefer it to be silver as I would feel I am getting a better deal with a better electrical conductor and more expensive materials, just like I would with much better plugs. All these small things put together can make an audible difference and will definitely make the cable last longer. Better shielding and connectors may make for less hum, etc... My point was the fact that they used a more expensive material such as silver already warrants a higher price, especially with silver prices going up all the time.

In regards to the book. It may not be as relevant today but it discusses a lot of things that are relevant. There's a reason why there are still so many releases on Vinyl, it's not just a collectors item but often it is Pressed closer to the original recording and therefore often has better SQ than CD. On top of this a new Vinyl costs nearly the same to buy as a new CD from Amazon for the same album. Yet, it costs the studio a lot more to press that Vinyl than it does to press the CD, so you are getting a better deal. Again whether there is an audible difference or superiority is up for debate, I would say that SACD is pretty much equal to Vinyl (nearly no discernible difference). All of this depends on the quality of your turntable, cartridge, and even your SACD/CD transport and the quality of your DAC and the bit and khz your DAC can handle, etc... If you haven't read it, I suggest you do, the author recently passed away and it is an older book but it's a good introduction into audio for me at least.

Some people believe in Homeopathy, I'm not sure if I do exactly. But I also don't believe in giving people antibiotics for every infection, or even preventing an infection such as after oral surgery. Often the doctors are just trying to cover their asses just in case you do get one as we are a sue heavy society. Some herbal medicines do help (although not necessarily homeopathic) and have for thousands of years and people survived on them. Antibiotics are great if you really need them and will die without them, but all too often people take them when they can get over what they have or simply don't need to prevent anything... But often doctors believe in the "Scientific" of giving medicine for everything, but to me that's like handing a bandage to someone who has a flesh wound, instead of addressing the problem. Anyway, my point is that Doctors believe in Scientific medicine as AVS might believe in the numbers behind things, and maybe AA and AK are more true in other beliefs such as herbal medication. So what? It doesn't mean one is right and the other is wrong? Maybe a balance of both is what is needed?


It's not pseudo-science that Silver is a better conductor of electricity, that is science. It's just too expensive to use in the mainstream, especially when many people might not hear a difference. This is up for debate. My point is that it's worth more because silver is a more expensive, and I never said that I justified my decision with love of silver, this is just the cherry on top of ALL The other reasons I gave. Maybe I got a better deal with my BlueJeansCable that I bought on craigslist for $10 for a 6 foot interconnect pair, but new it would have cost me around the same price that I paid for this HomeGrownAudio cable that has better connectors, better shielding through braiding, and has silver wire, so no, I have no quarrels about it.

In regards to where parts are from, I often ask companies about that and look for that. BJC's cables are made in the USA by Belden but their connectors used to be made in Japan by Canare and are now made in Taiwan. Many companies have to buy their connectors from Taiwan now even if all the other parts of the cable, including assembly is made in the USA. To me, the assembly is the most important bit as that's where the soldering and/or crimping is done and where most of the quality control is.

Soldering quality is extremely important for cables and any electronics. The top one is Monster Cable, the next one down is a generic, and the third one is Analysis Plus cables. Their HDMI's used to be made in the USA, they were the only ones that were for version 1.3, now with 1.4 they make them in Taiwan (which is still way better quality than mainland China). http://www.analysis-plus.com/prod_videocable.html

Anyway, I look at everything when I buy something, although final assembly is the most important bit as that's where the quality control really takes place and where reliability problems may occur. There was a recent article about an LED company that came back to manufacturing in the US as their failure rate was around 30% in China and is now down to only a few percent in the US. My next computer, when I can afford it will be a Sony Vaio Z, why? Because everything from the PCB/Motherboard, to the lid and parts, to the assembly is made in Japan. Some of the chips might come from other countries (such as Intel chips being made almost exclusively in Costa Rica) but this is near impossible to avoid now. At least over 90% of it including final assembly is made in Japan with high paying wages. Same goes for the Panasonic Toughbooks, the german made Fujitsu (only for the european market, of which I have one), etc....
Edited by BaronKatz - 9/30/12 at 10:35am

I know that nobody terminates HDMI cables in the USA ANYMORE. However, Analysis Plus used to with their 1.3 version. My HDMI cable is terminated and made all around in Japan by Audio Techinca, It was a high end, Japan only model and is a 1.3 version. These version numbers don't really matter as I watch 3D perfectly well with 1.3 without needing a 1.4 cable, even though they say support for 3D only came in at 1.4.

I myself mentioned that whether silver makes an audible difference is up for debate so I don't know what you're arguing for?

I never said I was going to mistake homeopathy for "real medicine." As I mentioned I am not sure how I feel about it.

You are scewing most of my words and taking them out of context. I never stated anything as "Fact" except for the science of silver being a better conductor. However, much of vinyl has a better pressing than CD. Look at the limited edition of some of the Buddha Bar albums which were pressed at Abbey Road Studios from the master tracks, you don't find much of that on CDs... That and less compression. Again this is arguable and debatable as stated. You may not believe it, and you may not hear a difference, but maybe that's because you haven't heard it played on an excellent turntable with a great needle/cartridge and compared it to an average CD player with a CD of the same album. Like I said, it's up for debate and most people prefer the convenience of CDs. This is why SACD is a great in between, unfortunately it never kicked off the way it should have, but SACD is wayyyyyyy better SQ than CD.

Oh and I've read BJCs website almost all around. In fact, it was one of the first pieces of information I read before getting into audio.
Edited by BaronKatz - 9/30/12 at 11:43am