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Offical JVC DLA-RS4810 Owners Thread - Page 3

post #61 of 1151
9/22/12 at 2:54pm
It is confirmed officially that it does have 1/16th pixel adjust. The plaque is wrong.
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post #62 of 1151
9/22/12 at 3:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by velvetpoet View Post

I doubt they did much to improve cross talk in the panels but it seems logical that the new bulbs may prevent the degragation issues? With out increasing the panel speed how much could they reduce cross talk? But it seems to me a lot of users think 3d is fine on a new bulb so if they fix the bulb issue and that keeps the 3d performance stable through out the performance of the bulb then it might be enought to sastify a large percentage of users?

If these bulbs stay as stable as they are supposed to, that should greatly reduce the increased ghosting which would be great. As far as being enough to satisfy a large percentage of users, I would just say if possible for people to demo one before commitment and with some challenging material at that (plenty of us here can give recommendations if needed smile.gif) and decide for themselves. I would also say it largely depends on what you will do with it as far as 3d goes. If you plan on gaming, forget about it as I cant see hardly anyone being happy long term since the ghosting is heavy in general. Blu ray 3d fares better, but again is a YMMV and best to see and decide for yourself with challenging material that will give you a worse case scenario. Personally, I am at a point where ghosting with a new bulb is way too much for me to be happy with blu ray 3d, and gaming especially.
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post #63 of 1151
9/22/12 at 3:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe View Post

If these bulbs stay as stable as they are supposed to, that should greatly reduce the increased ghosting which would be great. As far as being enough to satisfy a large percentage of users, I would just say if possible for people to demo one before commitment and with some challenging material at that (plenty of us here can give recommendations if needed smile.gif) and decide for themselves. I would also say it largely depends on what you will do with it as far as 3d goes. If you plan on gaming, forget about it as I cant see hardly anyone being happy long term since the ghosting is heavy in general. Blu ray 3d fares better, but again is a YMMV and best to see and decide for yourself with challenging material that will give you a worse case scenario. Personally, I am at a point where ghosting with a new bulb is way too much for me to be happy with blu ray 3d, and gaming especially.

You might also have an issue with 2d gaming as well because of the lag time. My gut is telling me its a stratch that 3d is really any better but at the same time I think it will be an improvement if it doesn't ghost more the longer you use the darn thing!

I think DLP is really the only solution for good 3d gaming?
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post #64 of 1151
9/22/12 at 3:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by velvetpoet View Post

You might also have an issue with 2d gaming as well because of the lag time. My gut is telling me its a stratch that 3d is really any better but at the same time I think it will be an improvement if it doesn't ghost more the longer you use the darn thing!
I think DLP is really the only solution for good 3d gaming?

I actually do have an issue 2d gaming with the current 80ms lag time on the JVCs, so you guessed right. frown.gif I never had an issue with this on my JVCs until this year when I got heavily into SSX. I have never been anything but a very casual gamer until SSX came out and I was hooked. Ended up dumping ~300 hours into it on my RS45, then moved my Xbox upstairs and started playing on the plasma when my projector went down. I immediately sensed that the game just seemed more responsive and I was blowing away all my personal best times and scores. I knew the plasma had considerably less lag, but I honestly was not expecting to notice any difference and I was wrong. I wont even play the game on my 45 anymore because of this whole experience.

I dont know how other non DLPs do exactly with 3d gaming since I have only gamed on my 40, 45 and my friends Acer 5360 DLP (ghost and flicker free gaming/movies is a thing of beauty!), but they must be better then the JVCs I would have to think to some degree at least. DLP seems the only totally safe way to go right now as far as this goes though.
Edited by Toe - 9/22/12 at 3:36pm
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post #65 of 1151
9/22/12 at 5:46pm
We had the quickest lag times with CRT projectors. 1 MS
We had the best blacks with CRT projectors.
I well know CRT's had there deficiencies. But I think it will be many years before digital projectors catch up in these two regards.
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post #66 of 1151
9/23/12 at 12:44am
well this year after JVC gave us another rebadged RS40 I think Im going to jump ship and head over to the Sony stable. I can't see buying another 120 HTz PJ. Looks to me JVC spent about 1 day to come up with this new model. PITTYFUL. i LIKE THE NEWS OF THE SONY 50 LUMENS IN 3D.
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post #67 of 1151
9/23/12 at 1:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kutlow View Post

well this year after JVC gave us another rebadged RS40 I think Im going to jump ship and head over to the Sony stable. I can't see buying another 120 HTz PJ. Looks to me JVC spent about 1 day to come up with this new model. PITTYFUL. i LIKE THE NEWS OF THE SONY 50 LUMENS IN 3D.

.....................voting with $'s will get em off their rears and offer the consumer valid reasons to upgrade.
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post #68 of 1151
9/23/12 at 4:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kutlow View Post

well this year after JVC gave us another rebadged RS40 I think Im going to jump ship and head over to the Sony stable. I can't see buying another 120 HTz PJ. Looks to me JVC spent about 1 day to come up with this new model. PITTYFUL. i LIKE THE NEWS OF THE SONY 50 LUMENS IN 3D.

I have similar feelings. If the Sony had the throw range of the JVC and a motorized lens, I would be ALL over it this year. frown.gif A lot of the supposed JVC upgrades look suspect at best right now.
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post #69 of 1151
9/23/12 at 11:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kutlow View Post

well this year after JVC gave us another rebadged RS40 I think Im going to jump ship and head over to the Sony stable.

I've never given Sony much thought, but now that you mention it, do they have anything that would compete with the RS46 performance/pricewise?
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post #70 of 1151
9/23/12 at 12:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

I've never given Sony much thought, but now that you mention it, do they have anything that would compete with the RS46 performance/pricewise?

The Sony hw50 cannot compete against the RS46's black levels and contrast, but it will compete with motion and latency. The hw50 has a gaming mode that is perfect for most gamers. The JVC does not. The overall motion is most likely better than the RS46 but not leagues better. Still, for movies the RS46 will beat the hw50 IMO because of the black levels and contrast.
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post #71 of 1151
9/23/12 at 12:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SED <--- Rules View Post

The Sony hw50 cannot compete against the RS46's black levels and contrast, but it will compete with motion and latency. The hw50 has a gaming mode that is perfect for most gamers. The JVC does not. The overall motion is most likely better than the RS46 but not leagues better. Still, for movies the RS46 will beat the hw50 IMO because of the black levels and contrast.

The Sony will most likely be better at 3d as well.
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post #72 of 1151
9/23/12 at 2:30pm
The JVC may have better on-off contrast (we have not seen any numbers regarding on-off for the HW50 yet so it is too early to tell), but is likely to have worse ANSI contrast.
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post #73 of 1151
9/23/12 at 3:11pm
The JVC vs. Sony is always going to be a hard call, for me the sharpness of the JVC is more why I went with the JVC over the Sony rather than black levels. Not that last year's Sony hw30's are not relatively sharp, but it doesn't resolve pixels as finely as the JVC's do. The extra blacks did influence my decision slightly, but it wasn't the primary reason. Basically based on last year's comparison (and I'm not sure it has changed much, maybe), the Sony wins at color accuracy and motion and gaming and 3D. The JVC wins in sharpness and black levels. The Sony spanks the JVC in 3D.

Even being a JVC owner myself, I think going by only black levels is a so-so argument to overrule the lower-end Sony with the lower-end JVC (RS-46 vs. hw50). The blacks on the Sony aren't quite JVC territory, but they are still very respectable and not DLP territory either. The added blacks on the JVC will surely be noticeable in some content, but for most buyers I don't think the black levels of the Sony vs. JVC are the deal-breaker. If I had to do it over again, would I still have bought the JVC RS-45 over the Sony hw30, maybe, but I'd have to see them side-by-side in my own home to know for sure (and showrooms don't count, too hard to tell when PJ's are this close).

If I had to guess, I'd probably still take the JVC due to its sharpness (but keep in mind I'm a sharpness junkie), but if Sony's are a little sharper this year, then man that is really going to make this a hard call, but I'd lean towards a Sony in that case (but that is personal preference and it could go either way). I really like the way the Sony's calibrate better than the JVC's color, but more so you get better 3D and gaming on a Sony.
Edited by coderguy - 9/23/12 at 3:47pm
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post #74 of 1151
9/23/12 at 3:44pm
Not sure why you find the JVC sharper then the Sony, but my VW90 was sharper then both the X7 an X70 and many owners of the Sony owners agree that they are sharper then the JVC. Look through the Sony 90 and 95 owners threads and there are MANY ex JVC owners who all agree that the Sony is sharper.

The only way I would think that JVC would be sharper would be if you compared it to the HW30 which had an inferior lens (which should not be the case with 50, as it's been changed)
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post #75 of 1151
9/23/12 at 3:45pm
Yes, I was talking about the hw30 vs. RS-45. I am not sure about the vw90 or vw95es, I read conflicting reports of their sharpness vs. a JVC.
I also do not know about the Sony hw50 (we shall see sort of thing, I don't trust it until someone has confirmed with their own eyes).
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post #76 of 1151
9/23/12 at 3:51pm
What is the general expectation regarding overall brightness/lumens between the JVC RS46 and the Sony HW50? confused.gif


...Glenn smile.gif
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post #77 of 1151
9/23/12 at 5:00pm
I think before we say the Sony HW50 isn't in the league of the JVC that we should at least wait until reports coming in before making that assumption.

In Art's preview he stated:
Quote:
"Black levels are very good. Better than the Epson 5010/6010? That’s probably the question many of you want to hear the answer to. You’ll have to wait. I could conjecture right now, but I’m saving that for the full review. "

IF it is better than the 5010 then it would be the next closed projector in black levels to the RS-45. If so, this projector should compete very solidly against the lower end JVCs as we know it will likely outperform it in some key areas when it comes to PQ. Unfortunately I've not seen the 5010 so I'm not sure how it compares to the JVC. Then another issue is that some reviewers aren't as concerned about black levels as others. This is one area that is imprortant to me and personally I think even the JVCs have a long way to go but after years of hoping for more I've just about given up on worry about this as manufacturer's just don't see this as a key prioirity frown.gif.

I also hope the DI works in 3D mode as well this year. I'd miss the motorized focus/zoom and the lens memory but I'm willing to give this up for good 3D and better FI.
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post #78 of 1151
9/23/12 at 5:39pm
I don't think anyone was saying that, I agree to wait and see.
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post #79 of 1151
9/23/12 at 6:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Baumann View Post

What is the general expectation regarding overall brightness/lumens between the JVC RS46 and the Sony HW50? confused.gif
...Glenn smile.gif

Over in the HW50ES thread, they are reporting a measured output of 1058 calibrated lumens. I think that's significantly brighter than the HW30ES, which was about 800 calibrated lumens? It's supposed to be much brighter in 3D mode as well.
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post #80 of 1151
9/23/12 at 6:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by phisch View Post

Over in the HW50ES thread, they are reporting a measured output of 1058 calibrated lumens. I think that's significantly brighter than the HW30ES, which was about 800 calibrated lumens? It's supposed to be much brighter in 3D mode as well.

My HW30 was ~900 calibrated, it's not a huge increase. I'm mainly curious to see if they were able to further reduce ghosting / flicker in 3D mode on the HW50.

those trying to decide between the Sony and JVC should wait for the Cine4home deep dive or the 3D mini-shootout V2. There isn't enough objective information out there yet to compare until the JVC's land in late November.
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post #81 of 1151
9/23/12 at 7:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombie10k View Post

My HW30 was ~900 calibrated, it's not a huge increase. I'm mainly curious to see if they were able to further reduce ghosting / flicker in 3D mode on the HW50.
those trying to decide between the Sony and JVC should wait for the Cine4home deep dive or the 3D mini-shootout V2. There isn't enough objective information out there yet to compare until the JVC's land in late November.

Not sure how long the pre-order pricing is good on the Sony. For those looking at the RS45 it seems safe to believe it's exactly the same as the RS45 but perhaps less ghosting. Otherwise that model is the same. Hopefully we'll have details on the Sony HW50 very soon. For me the question on the Sony is how far behing in black levels and contrast is it compared to the RS45 in 2D I'll lose some bells and whistles with the JVC but we can pretty much assume better motion, FI, and 3D on the Sony unless JVC has a trick up their sleeve. If they did I think they would really be touting the improvements but that doesn't seem to be the case.
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post #82 of 1151
9/23/12 at 7:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by xb1032 View Post

Not sure how long the pre-order pricing is good on the Sony. For those looking at the RS45 it seems safe to believe it's exactly the same as the RS45 but perhaps less ghosting. Otherwise that model is the same. Hopefully we'll have details on the Sony HW50 very soon. For me the question on the Sony is how far behing in black levels and contrast is it compared to the RS45 in 2D I'll lose some bells and whistles with the JVC but we can pretty much assume better motion, FI, and 3D on the Sony unless JVC has a trick up their sleeve. If they did I think they would really be touting the improvements but that doesn't seem to be the case.

I spent a fair amount of time with all the mini-3D shootout projectors this past year, when I see the HW50 soon, it should be clear where it stands based on last years selections. I'll run it through all the same tests + more this year.

The new HW50 does sound interesting based on the advertised improvements. I'm looking forward to seeing the HW50 vs. the 4810 or RS56.
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post #83 of 1151
9/23/12 at 7:23pm
My main thing is I am wondering when the new DLP's come out (Optoma, Viewsonic, whoever else). I am guessing Benq will not release a successor to the Benq w7000 this year?
I think right now I am leaning on keeping the RS-45, selling the Pro8200, and buying a 3D DLP. It appears the MFR's are having some issue trying to make low-cost LED DLP's as sharp as their UHP DLP competitors, and since I do some flight sim stuff and misc on the DLP in 3D, I want the sharpness. The w7000 could be the ticket for me, but man sub 1000:1 contrast I don't think I want to pay 2k for that (no offense). I need 10,000:1 to fly at night smile.gif
Edited by coderguy - 9/23/12 at 7:46pm
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post #84 of 1151
9/23/12 at 7:42pm
Thanks.

I'll stick with JVC; I value good black level, don't care about 3D, and have a Lumagen to take care of the color.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SED <--- Rules View Post

The Sony hw50 cannot compete against the RS46's black levels and contrast, but it will compete with motion and latency. The hw50 has a gaming mode that is perfect for most gamers. The JVC does not. The overall motion is most likely better than the RS46 but not leagues better. Still, for movies the RS46 will beat the hw50 IMO because of the black levels and contrast.
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post #85 of 1151
9/23/12 at 7:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Thanks.
I'll stick with JVC; I value good black level, don't care about 3D, and have a Lumagen to take care of the color.

For you, yah 100% simple decision, JVC is the best bet, wish it were that simple for all of us.
I think I am keeping my RS-45 though, I do love that contrast when I need it, gotta add me another DLP to the mix though.
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post #86 of 1151
9/23/12 at 8:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott B View Post

The JVC may have better on-off contrast (we have not seen any numbers regarding on-off for the HW50 yet so it is too early to tell), but is likely to have worse ANSI contrast.

Some said they thought the JVC had better ANSI contrast this year and there may be a reason for that, for the e-shift models. Here is info off of JVC's site:

“e-Shift is an innovative JVC technology that allows us to build a projector with 4 times the resolution using much of our existing infrastructure, keeping the projector small and affordable. For 2013, We've made significant upgrades to the original e-Shift—now called e-shift2—which include an all-new optical device, smarter Multiple Pixel Control technology, and improved enhancement and upscaling. All of this results in a picture with significantly improved contrast, and more natural color tones than on previous models. And best of all, with the DLA-RS4810, e-shift2 4K precision is now more affordable than ever.
Using e-shift, the original 1920 x 1080 signal is processed with a correlation detection algorithm to uncover detail that can be enhanced on a 4K display. With e-shift2, a much wider area is sampled—12 times as many pixels than previously—which results in improved edge transitions, zero aliasing and stair-stepping, and a significant increase in contrast in detailed areas. New sub pixels are generated based on this detection and a 3840 x 2160 frame is created and enhanced. Our new 8 band analysis filter delivers much more accurate smoothing and enhancement that the previous 2 band filter. The enhanced 4K frame is then temporally separated into subframes 1920 x 1080 pixels each and projected using a the D-ILA optical system through the e-Shift2 device. The original e-Shift device used liquid crystals to shift the subframes by 0.5 pixel both vertically and horizontally. Our new e-shift2 device shifts the image without the use of liquid crystals, and that results in an overall better resolution linearity and better ANSI contrast. The result is an image with 4 times the pixel density of the original content.”

Here is the link: http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/tech_desc.jsp?model_id=MDL102176&feature_id=02
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post #87 of 1151
9/23/12 at 8:59pm
And we all know how consistent JVC's website has been for marketing their new products right Mike? wink.gif

I'd rather AVS verify our concerns directly from trusted sources at JVC NJ (like Bill maybe?), which is something Mark H. would do for us regularly (not to imply you haven't or won't).
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post #88 of 1151
9/24/12 at 11:18am
Curious to know how many guys posting (and bashing JVC) in this thread actually are on the JVC pre-order list, or actually own a JVC; the thread itself has really spiraled downward.

I am with Coderguy; I love the sharpness of my RS45, and my RS15 before it. I will take my chances on the 4810. I tried the Sony HW30; even with help of the Darbee it didn't quite match the JVC.

As has been said before, it is all speculation until someone gets their hands on a production unit to evaluate. JVC won't be the first large company to release bad information on their website prior to a product launch. It just means the people and managment at JVC are human and make mistakes.

Willie

Cheeseheads Rock!
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post #89 of 1151
9/24/12 at 11:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie View Post

Curious to know how many guys posting (and bashing JVC) in this thread actually are on the JVC pre-order list, or actually own a JVC; the thread itself has really spiraled downward.
I am with Coderguy; I love the sharpness of my RS45, and my RS15 before it. I will take my chances on the 4810. I tried the Sony HW30; even with help of the Darbee it didn't quite match the JVC.
As has been said before, it is all speculation until someone gets their hands on a production unit to evaluate. JVC won't be the first large company to release bad information on their website prior to a product launch. It just means the people and managment at JVC are human and make mistakes.
Willie
Cheeseheads Rock!

Sometimes people like to tell others what they are seeing with their projectors, even if they don't have the projector. I remember when I had the Panasonic AE3000 for about a month, then sold it to get the AE4000. I lost about $500 on the upgrade and didn't see a difference at all. Reviewers said that it did not worth an upgrade, but I had already sold it. I comment on how I didn't see a noticeable difference and so many was telling me I was wrong. I doubt none of them had them a month apart like I did. Now with the JVC, its even worse because everyone expect them to be the best. It seems like everyone is getting bad projectors from JVC if you read these forums.

Also, the Packers is the only team I would never be a fan of.
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post #90 of 1151
9/24/12 at 1:16pm
I admit it usually is exciting to see new projectors come out (no matter what brand) but last year as far as JVC went I only looked at one and not sure I will do that much this year! eek.gif
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