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Offical JVC DLA-RS4810 Owners Thread - Page 32

post #931 of 1794
I guess I should add that before I noticed this, my projector did have a weird sort of hiccup.

The screen went black and the rectangular area in the upper right that shows the input resolution showed a bunch of jibberish. No buttons on the remote would change what was on the screen, but it powered down fine when I hit the standby button twice.

After a few minutes I powered it back up again and everything seemed fine. Except that I believe it was after this that I first noticed this noise with e-shift and MPC. Is is possible some internal programming went wonky?

I'll see if there's any difference when I check it out later tonight. Out of curiousty, is there anyway to do a software reboot other than power cycling?
post #932 of 1794
I noted the same issue a couple weeks ago in the RS66 thread. As you observed, the mottled appearance near high contrast transitions is an artifact associated with the MPC Enhance option. It's fine to enable the MPC mode to get the benefit of the 4K scaling, but keep the MPC options at "0" if you want to avoid artifacts. It's easy to see the problem if you display the "Sharpness & Overscan" pattern on the AVS HD 709 test disc and then adjust the Enhance slider.
post #933 of 1794
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanbryan View Post

I'll definitely do more trouble shooting, but in what way would the BD player cause this if the image is completely fine when eshift is off and then gets messy ONLY when the eshift is on?
I seriously doubt the BD player would cause what you're seeing since it only appears with e-shift on, but it's certainly worth checking just in case.

FWIW I tried viewing the test pattern at [Film, 50, 0, 0] like you suggested and didn't see any artifacts. I usually run my projector with its MPC mode set to [Film, 30, 30, 10] and didn't see an issue with that setting either.
post #934 of 1794
Quote:
Originally Posted by henrich3 View Post

I noted the same issue a couple weeks ago in the RS66 thread. As you observed, the mottled appearance near high contrast transitions is an artifact associated with the MPC Enhance option. It's fine to enable the MPC mode to get the benefit of the 4K scaling, but keep the MPC options at "0" if you want to avoid artifacts. It's easy to see the problem if you display the "Sharpness & Overscan" pattern on the AVS HD 709 test disc and then adjust the Enhance slider.
You can't conclusively make this statement since most folks are not seeing any high contrast artifacts with enhanced MPC settings.
post #935 of 1794
Have you tried viewing the "Sharpness & Overscan" pattern on the AVS HD 709 test disc and adjusting the Enhance slider?
post #936 of 1794
Quote:
Originally Posted by henrich3 View Post

Have you tried viewing the "Sharpness & Overscan" pattern on the AVS HD 709 test disc and adjusting the Enhance slider?
No. I'm not going to go searching for issues if I can't see them from my viewing position. Seanbryan said (and showed) that the artifact he is seeing is easily visible from a normal viewing distance, and I checked for that artifact using his recommendations, and it's completely absent on my projector, so I'm satisfied.

One thing I have noticed is that the lens memories aren't particularly accurate/repeatable. For instance, if I set a lens memory, then move the lens position around and/or center the lens, then recall the saved lens memory, the recalled position isn't exactly the same as the initial memorized position. It's only off by a few clicks, but it ain't perfect. The degree to which it's off seems to vary depending on the point from which the memory is recalled, and I haven't cracked the code to figure out what starting point would make it most accurate (i.e. should I start from centered lens or another memorized position). Still, I could see how the memories would be quite useful (they're probably "close enough"). Besides, it's more of a curiosity than anything to me since I'm zoomed so far in (12' throw, 110" 16:9 screen) I couldn't zoom the image any further in to fill a wider 2.35:1 screen of the same height even if I wanted to.
post #937 of 1794
Ok guys, I found the culprit.

It feels good to know that I wasn't crazy or being unreasonably picky and that what I was seeing was indeed Bad (with a capital B!) and not normal.

A few days back I was messing around with some of the settings in the Sony S790 (BD player) to see what they do and if they were worth anything. I left on "super resolution" at level 1 and this is what was causing the mess.

The sony's "super resolution" does not play well with the MPC's "enhance" when the eshift is activated, but they do get along ok if eshift is off. Good to know.

For the record. I can still see this "noise" when looking for it in these patterns, but it is much more subtle now and probably would not be visible on normal viewing material. If I lower enhance to under 20 it almost disappears and would be difficult to see from seating distance. But it seems subtly present using enhance at anything more than zero with eshift on. The sony's additional "sharpening" was just blowing it all up into a crazy mess.

So I can see how some were saying they thought they saw something similar to what I described, because this seems to simply be an artifact with enhance and eshift2. But it's nowhere near as bad as what I was getting with sony's super resolution mucking it up.
Edited by seanbryan - 1/30/13 at 9:40pm
post #938 of 1794
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwa View Post

...
One thing I have noticed is that the lens memories aren't particularly accurate/repeatable.
...

How repeatable is the focus? Doesn't focus change with zoom? Bad focus tracking would be annoying for sure.
post #939 of 1794
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwa View Post

No. I'm not going to go searching for issues if I can't see them from my viewing position. Seanbryan said (and showed) that the artifact he is seeing is easily visible from a normal viewing distance, and I checked for that artifact using his recommendations, and it's completely absent on my projector, so I'm satisfied.

I hadn't noticed problems with the Enhance option on actual program material. (Conservative setting & limited testing.) I'm just wary of enhancements & look to see if there are any artifacts so I can decide whether the benefits are greater than the downside. When I saw mottling in the light background near the black bars on the Sharpness pattern, I decided to just leave that enhancement disabled.

The Darblet does an excellent job of image enhancement without noticeable artifacts on test patterns. Since I can get a sharp, better focused appearance using the Darblet and it doesn't have artifacts if a conservative setting is used (eg. HD 30%), I just use that little gizmo to get the look I enjoy. Different strokes... smile.gif
post #940 of 1794


Please check above text in the menu. It'll be zoomed if clicked.
It was film mode with default MPC settings 50/50/50. It's not from BDP or anywhere else. I've checked two 4810 and see the same issue.
If enhance option is lowered less than 10, The distortion in text disappeared.
post #941 of 1794
Interesting story from Avforums.com about the new sample X55 fixing under-saturated Green.

http://www.avforums.com/reviews/JVC-DLA-X55-X55R-X55RE-X55RB-X55RBE-X55RW-X55RWE-3D-DILA-Projector-Review_439/Test_Results.html
Quote:
Note: Our first review sample had a restricted colour gamut that resulted in errors to green that we were unable to correct with the CMS. It appeared that there was a bug in the software that was under-saturating green and limiting the effectiveness of the CMS. Since the inclusion of a CMS is one of the major selling points of the X55, it was vital that this worked properly. We reported the problem to JVC immediately and they sent a replacement sample to us the next day. As you can see from the graphs above, there were no problems with the second sample and it delivered a reference performance. Since there have been no reports of similar problems, it would appear that our first sample was faulty, which is unfortunate but bound to happen on occasion with any mass-produced consumer product. At least it shows that JVC aren't sending out 'golden samples' and we were pleased to see them respond to the problem as quickly as they did.

I wish there'll be new firmware for X55/RS48/RS4810 soon not shipping back to JVC service center.
Also it'll be perfect if there's fix for distorted image on E-Shift 2.
post #942 of 1794
News about iOS app for JVC PJ.

http://www3.jvckenwood.com/projector/support/smartphone/dla-x95r_ios-app.html <- Will need Google translator.

Supporting device : X55, X75, X95

downloadable at iPhone 4/4S, iPod Touch, iPad (3rd Gen) running iOS 5.1 from AppStore. The search keyword is 'D-ILA Remote'

No plan for Android yet.
post #943 of 1794
...just a thought, but I'm wondering if the edge crawlies being observed by some on the 4810 is possibly a symptom of pixel adjust scaling artifacts with MPC engaged? Do the crawlies disappear with pixel adjust turned off?
post #944 of 1794
The crawlies disappeared when the setting in the BluRay player was turned off. This kind of ties in with my observations re the Adele disc as it isn't the best mastered disc I've seen (I'm even wondering if some distance shots are upscaled because they just don't seem as sharp as my other BluRays and there seems to be some ringing present anyway...the X55 just brought it out more with the (high) MPC settings when I viewed it.
post #945 of 1794
I wasn't using any pixel adjust (convergence adjustment). It was just Film mode of e-shift with enhance at 50. The BD player's own enhancement feature was significantly exacerbating the noise from the combination of the eshift scaling and using enhance.

That's an interesting thing I noted. The bad artifacts were not present with eshift on and enhance at 0, and it was not present with with eshift off and enhance at 50. But when eshift was on with enhance also being used then this noise is present, which was then being significantly worsened by the BD player's super resolution feature.

So the scaling being used with eshift when combined with the enhance MPC adjustment does seem to cause some subtle "noise" depending on how high you go with enhance. But it probably wouldn't be visible on most viewing material from seating distance. The Darbee doesn't seem to have problems with this, but sony's BD super resolution really messes thing up.
Edited by seanbryan - 1/31/13 at 10:16am
post #946 of 1794
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebits View Post

Interesting story from Avforums.com about the new sample X55 fixing under-saturated Green.

http://www.avforums.com/reviews/JVC-DLA-X55-X55R-X55RE-X55RB-X55RBE-X55RW-X55RWE-3D-DILA-Projector-Review_439/Test_Results.html
I wish there'll be new firmware for X55/RS48/RS4810 soon not shipping back to JVC service center.
Also it'll be perfect if there's fix for distorted image on E-Shift 2.
Wow. I'd really like to hear more about this as well. If it's a software issue then hopefully a firmware update can fix it. Quite a few folks around here have noticed/measured undersaturated green so if this is fixable that'd be great.
post #947 of 1794
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwa View Post

Wow. I'd really like to hear more about this as well. If it's a software issue then hopefully a firmware update can fix it. Quite a few folks around here have noticed/measured undersaturated green so if this is fixable that'd be great.

....Exactly. It seems practically every single one of the posters in this 4810 thread who calibrated CMS reported the same problem with green. It would be helpful if this information could get communicated somehow back up through the supplier and eventually JVC support..
post #948 of 1794
Code:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi View Post

....Exactly. It seems practically every single one of the posters in this 4810 thread who calibrated CMS reported the same problem with green. It would be helpful if this information could get communicated somehow back up through the supplier and eventually JVC support..
I've contacted Mike at AVS about this issue and he's already forwarded the info to a JVC engineer. Hopefully we'll hear something back from JVC reasonably soon. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that JVC will address the issue and it'll be fixable with a user-installable firmware update.
post #949 of 1794
...a Swollen Member usually gets attention.
post #950 of 1794
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi View Post

...a Swollen Member usually gets attention.
You're right about that! smile.gif
post #951 of 1794
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwa View Post

Code:
I've contacted Mike at AVS about this issue and he's already forwarded the info to a JVC engineer. Hopefully we'll hear something back from JVC reasonably soon. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that JVC will address the issue and it'll be fixable with a user-installable firmware update.

Thank you for this. Let's wait for JVC's official response.
post #952 of 1794
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebits View Post

Interesting story from Avforums.com about the new sample X55 fixing under-saturated Green.

http://www.avforums.com/reviews/JVC-DLA-X55-X55R-X55RE-X55RB-X55RBE-X55RW-X55RWE-3D-DILA-Projector-Review_439/Test_Results.html
I wish there'll be new firmware for X55/RS48/RS4810 soon not shipping back to JVC service center.
Also it'll be perfect if there's fix for distorted image on E-Shift 2.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwa View Post

Wow. I'd really like to hear more about this as well. If it's a software issue then hopefully a firmware update can fix it. Quite a few folks around here have noticed/measured undersaturated green so if this is fixable that'd be great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi View Post

....Exactly. It seems practically every single one of the posters in this 4810 thread who calibrated CMS reported the same problem with green. It would be helpful if this information could get communicated somehow back up through the supplier and eventually JVC support..

Can you imagine JVC's response if any of us tried to return it with the reasoning AVForums used? No chance in hell we'd get anywhere. But it does not surprise me that they got a replacement without the Green issue.....it should not have been there to begin with and none of the other models this year seem to have a green issue (at least to the extent that I've read on the 4810's).
post #953 of 1794
Well, maybe JVC should have sent new firmware to Avforums if they could fix w/o exchanging the sample.. hmmm. There can be more than simple firmware update to fix it?
Returning units to service center is my last resort.
post #954 of 1794
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post



Can you imagine JVC's response if any of us tried to return it with the reasoning AVForums used? No chance in hell we'd get anywhere. But it does not surprise me that they got a replacement without the Green issue.....it should not have been there to begin with and none of the other models this year seem to have a green issue (at least to the extent that I've read on the 4810's).
That's why I hope the fix, if there is one, is a firmware update. Otherwise I wouldn't even bother trying to get it resolved. Mine's close enough.
post #955 of 1794
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebits View Post

Well, maybe JVC should have sent new firmware to Avforums if they could fix w/o exchanging the sample.. hmmm. There can be more than simple firmware update to fix it?
Returning units to service center is my last resort.
That's a good question and I was wondering the same thing. Maybe the firmware version that's used for end-user updates wasn't ready yet? Maybe it was just easier to send a replacement than to fart around with firmware updates? Maybe JVC wanted to send a cherry-picked sample the second time around? Who knows.
post #956 of 1794
IIRC a long while back there was some discussion about changing color profiles and it requiring a trip to JVC for that. But I may be mistaken. I will certainly be in line to do a FW update if that is doable...
post #957 of 1794
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebits View Post

Well, maybe JVC should have sent new firmware to Avforums if they could fix w/o exchanging the sample.. hmmm. There can be more than simple firmware update to fix it?
Returning units to service center is my last resort.

The 3D fix for the X35/RS46 required a return to their service center. There must be certain components (daughterboards, etc). that can't be flashed with the firmware update.

The improved results they found is good news though.
post #958 of 1794
Oh, there may be no FW update fixing CMS!
Following is comments from Steve at AVForums who wrote X55 reviews.
Quote:
As I mentioned in the review, JVC replaced my original sample with one that had no problems with green. When I asked them if they had made any changes, they said no and that the original sample had just been faulty.

Obviously there are bound to be sample variations on any mass produced product but if you feel there is an issue with your X55 then I recommend you contact your retailer or JVC.
post #959 of 1794
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebits View Post

Oh, there may be no FW update fixing CMS!
Following is comments from Steve at AVForums who wrote X55 reviews.
Oh well. At least the error we've all measured seems pretty consistent across units, so I wouldn't expect to receive another "replacement" unit with significantly better results. If mine were the only one that measured out of whack I'd be more concerned. I can certainly live with what I've got now.
post #960 of 1794
...I do recall that an early CMS problem back with the RS20 was fixed with a firmware download. And, it took a while to be released. I still have the cable purchased solely for that purpose.
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