NEW SUB FROM PARTS EXPRESS DAYTON 18 HO" - Page 3

a "rear" subwoofer system.

lmfao...only on AVS DIY.

James

Hey, I gotta go big. The rear sub has four 18's with 8,800w and 12 15's with ~3,000w of power up front to compete with.

All in a 'tiny' 2,000cuft room too.


We DIY'ers have the most fun.

Sooooo

I heard that there could be another Dayton 18" coming out with more Xmax. Hopefully an HF version of this and not a crappy Titanic 18".

I hope you weren't expecting no one to ask you about your source for that information.

How much power would this Dayton 18 inch driver need in a sealed enclosure to reach down to 18hz? Is it even possible to get down that low with only 1 of these Dayton 18's? Or would I need like 2+.?

Of course there is.

Because I just bought and built a cabinet for THIS one. lmao.

Could prolly end up swapping em anyway.

James

Yes and might as well.


No, trust me. You wanted small. You won't have that capability with the HF line. You made the right choice.

Anyone care to speak on the differences between this sub and the 15" hf?
lets say, given (2) 125l enclosures, would you guys go with (2) 18" ho's or the 15" hf's? both running off a marathon 5050 btw

15" hf likes a large cab.
-15hf has half as many turns in the gap, weaker motor, but less inductance
-18ho works in 3-4 cubic foot cab, twice as many turns, stronger motor, but more inductance
both employ triple shorting rings to keep inductance linear though.
i'd choose the -18ho.

Data-Bass has tested this driver in box. Results are very good! These 18's are gonna be hot! Get em while you can.

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=89

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=89&mset=96

Man, lookin good! Would it be stupid to move to 8 of these instead of 2 RE XXX18's? That would probably solve my midbass efficiency problem

It would be .....different. XXX18's are no slouch.

I'd keep your twin XXX18's and put them where ever you get the best response down low. Then cluster up four of these and have them on each side of the listening position.


Or something like that.

Of course you would. haha. I don't have enough space in my room width wise for that or I already would have made two RE End Tables

Midbass is going to be insane with these in multiples. 4-8 of these in all but the most demanding rooms are going to be savage in the midbass region. Efficiency with this many drivers will also be off the charts.

Then a cluster of eight in between your line arrays. Four on top of four. Power with a single 14k LG clone or equivalent. Then put your XXX18's on one side. Yes.


Hmmm... might be worth considering. My models show (not counting your XXX18's and any room gains) 114dB at 10hz, 126dB @ 20hz, and well off the charts >130dB from ~27hz and up.

Yup.
Edited by Scott Simonian - 11/16/12 at 12:03pm

awesome man thanks! just the kind of info i was looking for in regards to performance
i was using a fi q18 in a 190L sealed bx, now i have 2 ho-44 12" on the front line in 40L bxs, the fi is retired for now, but ill be looking to upgrade and move the 12"s to the gaming rig.
the 18" ho's have the spl advantage over the hf's but sq is where my concern was also. i want sq as a priority above all else.

funny i've seen references to data-bass but never really visited the site,,,that will no longer be the case

Thanks again!
Edited by Sousa86 - 3/18/13 at 12:29pm

had a question about modeling this driver in winisd:

say 2 drivers 13mm xmax in 240L total space (120 ea.), now when loaded into winisd it shows the xmax limit at 13mm, if i input 1000w (500w ea.) for power i pass xmax by 1.5mm
my concern is if this a cumulative total meaning each sub is actually using around 7mm or is it saying both drivers have passed linear xmax?

just wanna make sure my modeling is right

Yeah, it's saying that both drivers have passed Xmax by 1.5mm.

Guys, I'm extremely green when it comes to DIY sub builds, but I'm thinking of starting off with either this 18" or the 15" hf. This 18" just looks so ominous that I want to have it.

Looking at the measurements on the link posted to Data-Bass, it appears the sub performs really well in a sealed enclosure. My only concern is the lack of flat response. Can you eq a sealed sub to have flat response? Is that what would normally be done?

Yes. I'm adding ~6db from 30hz down w/ my sealed setup. It depends on what your room is doing though.

Definitely depends on the room quite a bit - here is mine with NO boost added:

That's quite good 'rilla.

My response has a huge peak at 39hz that matches longest dimension of the room and then transitions to a bunch of modal peaks and nulls above that. Once I eq out the 39hz peak I need the 6db boost to bring up everything below.

So yes, you need to see what the room does to the response and then adjust accordingly.

It probably helps that I'm running 4 dual opposed cabs (8 drivers) placed around the room. I spent a lot of time on placing them in the right positions to minimize the nulls. Originally when I had the subs in the front corners I had some pretty nasty dipsl. Now it's at a point where I really don't need any external EQ outside of Audyssey to achieve a flat curve.

Which goes to show how well the multi-sub approach works. Right now I just have 2 at opposite corners. I'm working on box #3 now. It's almost ready for paint. I bought a sonotube for box #4 so I'll get there eventually. With my small room I’m real restricted on placement unless I want to give up seating or put a sub in front of a main so I’m just going to do 4 boxes where I can.

For those wondering if Dayton Audio would be producing an "HF" version of the Reference 18, listen to what Rory Buszka, the Product Manager at Dayton told me:

While we offer “HF” variations of our Reference Series subwoofer drivers in 8” thru 15” chassis sizes, we have decided for the time being to not pursue an 18” HF-style driver.

The HF variations of the other Reference Series subwoofers use a thinner aluminum cone, and a 2-layer voice coil instead of a 4-layer. In the case of the 18” frame size, the thinner cone material would result in the material of the 18” driver being under extreme stress. A loudspeaker cone converts an axial force at its apex into tensile stress in an annular direction in the cone material, and cracking of the aluminum would become a concern. As cones become larger, the thickness of the material needs to increase to maintain the same bending stiffness. Also, the 4-layer coil makes more BL product available to the driver, to keep the enclosure size manageable.

When comparing the HF models to the HO models within the Reference Series subwoofer range, one isn’t ‘less musical’ than the other. The HO designation is simply used to designate drivers that perform well in smaller enclosures, while the “HF” designation indicates a driver that performs well in the much larger enclosures common in hi-fi, and with extended frequency response into the midbass range (well above where a subwoofer is typically applied), thanks to the thinner cone and lower moving mass, allowing them to be employed as woofers in multi-way speakers. Considering your application as a high-end hi-fi subwoofer, I think you’d be very pleased with abilities of the 18” RSS460HO-4 driver.

I have sold both of my Passive Captivators and plan on doing a DIY with these drivers instead. I wonder how many I need to fill a 6,000 cu ft. area that is open to an additional 60,000 cu.ft. ?

LOL, do you live in a big warehouse???

That is huge!

No, it's just one of those really open floorplan homes where the whole first floor is pretty much one big space with 17' ceilings. So sound doesn't really "fill" the main listening area very easily.

I think this is where nearfield placement might be important to get tactile feel. Also multiples for sure. Seems like quad DO would be a start. 8 drivers?

Do you have measurement gear and software? That will also be a must.

Thanks for the recommendations.
I just downloaded REW...now I've got to learn how to use it!