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Sony XBR-HX950 Owners' Thread (XBR-55HX9​50 and XBR-65HX95​0) - Page 9

post #241 of 4483
Today I received the Disney WOW Blu-Ray calibration discs and carefully calibrated the Standard and Custom Picture Modes. eek.gif I set-up Custom to be my default setting for most material with deep blacks and minimal blooming (really only an issue oxx-axis with credits and white logos on black backgrounds), and with the Standard setting being used for cases where I want brightest picture possible.

I'm happy to report that most of the settings were very close to factory settings. The set was calibrated in a darkened, but not blacked out viewing room. I had one paper tower lamp from ikea with 3 low wattage bulbs, and vertical blinds behind the viewing position closed with slight light leakage. This represents a real-world versatile viewing environment for me. I won't be playing at the beach front cottage, or in a pitch black home theater.

Picture and contrast were based on standard test screens maintaining whiter than white and darker than dark values. No clipping or blooming. Brightness was closed to maxed out in both cases, and brightness was a few points lower than default. I looked for any grayscale difference in the reference 0 black region - straight on and at moderate horizontal viewing angles.

I left NR on after noticing that the filter removed digitized film noise from the opening spy hunt scene in "From Russia With Love" on the recently released. Blu-ray Bond 50 with minimal negative effects. The Black Corrector, Contrast Enhancer, Dynamic Control, and Auto Light Limiter negatively affected the test performance on the WOW test screens when using the settings listed below.

Gamma was set to +1 to achieve a reference Gamma of 2.2. (Edit: Set to 0 with Light Sensor = Off to give approximate Gamma of 2.2)

Motionflow is a tricky creature. On a lot of digital content, the effect was nearly impossible for me to observe other than Clear was dimmer than Standard, and Clear Plus was dimmer than Clear. Impulse flickered terribly. And Smooth seemed close to Standard. However, on 24p film content, Smooth had that mild "Soap Opera" effect that I have strongly disliked on Samsung sets in Costco. eek.gif Motionflow is somewhere between Standard and Clear IMO. Clear Plus takes too much of a brightness hit. Clear helps with the halo effect.

Color Temp seems about ideal at Warm 1. Most 929 settings were Warm 2, and some reviewers said to give it some time to get used to the orange cast. It's something in the Warm 1 to Warm 2 area for sure though.

The remaining items that I need to evaluate are Motionflow and White Balance. Motionflow is somewhere between Standard and Clear IMO. Clear Plus takes too much of a brightness hit, and Smooth has that effect that I am utterly despise. I think we'd need a pro to properly set the white point settings, but I'll look use white paper to adjust the RGB Bias here in a day or so.

The horizontal viewing angle on my set seems excellent IMO. I can get off axis about 40˚ before I see any effect on the color. I also feel that screen uniformity is excellent with R, G, B, and with real world material.

I'll update these settings once I have a chance to put some time in with Live Color, Color Temperature, MotionFlow and White Balance. wink.gif

These settings were very carefully done, and should get you pretty close to start optimizing for your room, viewing position, source components, viewing material, and personal preferences.

I'd love to hear what's working for everyone else. smile.gif

EDIT v1.1: Updated Color Temp setting to Warm 1 for both profiles and corrected LED Dynamic Control to ON.

EDIT v1.2: MF increased from Standard to Clear to reduce halo effect. Trying Backlighting at 1 with Custom profile.

EDIT v1.3: Slight tweaks to low backlight profile. Adjusted Gamma to 0 from +1.

EDIT v1.4: Estimated White Point settings from HDGuru Calibration Report

EDIT v1.43: Warm 1 - Warm 2. RGB Gain and Bias adjustments

EDIT v1.5: Picture & Brightness optimized using Warm 1 and Light Sensor = Off. RGB Gain TBD

XBR Settings v1.5.pdf 49k .pdf file
Edited by jmjunker - 10/4/12 at 5:35pm
post #242 of 4483
I really need to get that Blu-ray sometime. I just wish it was a bit lower in price. I have a mental block when it comes to spending over $10 on a Blu-ray movie.
post #243 of 4483
Quote:
Originally Posted by vaxick View Post

I really need to get that Blu-ray sometime. I just wish it was a bit lower in price. I have a mental block when it comes to spending over $10 on a Blu-ray movie.

It's under $20 for the single disc version shipped from Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Wow-Blu-ray-Artist-Not-Provided/dp/B00462PTDQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1348812168&sr=8-2&keywords=disney+wow

I bought the 2 disc version just to have more high-def content, but after buying it I would just recommend the single disc version to be honest. wink.gif
post #244 of 4483
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmjunker View Post

It's under $20 for the single disc version shipped from Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Wow-Blu-ray-Artist-Not-Provided/dp/B00462PTDQ/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1348812168&sr=8-2&keywords=disney+wow
I bought the 2 disc version just to have more high-def content, but after buying it I would just recommend the single disc version to be honest. wink.gif

Get the single disc. I have the second disc version and disc two is a complete waste of time filled with like 5 short clips of mostly FAKE simulated nature images. Garbage. Disc 1 is great though, easiest calibration disc ever.
post #245 of 4483
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmjunker 
Motionflow is a tricky creature. On a lot of digital content, the effect was nearly impossible for me to observe other than Clear was dimmer than Standard, and Clear Plus was dimmer than Clear. Impulse flickered terribly. And Smooth seemed close to Standard. However, on 24p film content, Smooth had that mild "Soap Opera" effect that I have strongly disliked on Samsung sets in Costco. eek.gif

Clear is a mixture of fake frames (motion interpolation) and black frames (black frame insertion or scanning backlight) that is the reason why picture is dimmer.

btw when you watch a 1080p 24 frames per second blu-ray movie it is no longer 24fps when one of the Motionflow options is active since Motionflow adds 24 fake/black frames to the 24 original frames.
post #246 of 4483
Quote:
Originally Posted by XxDeadlyxX View Post

So has anyone learnt yet how many zones the 65" has?

No one has been able to get one for a hands-on count, they should be hitting the 'streets' soon though.
post #247 of 4483
Got my 55" in a couple days ago: quick impression out of the box is that it matches or exceeds the 52" 909 I've been running for the last couple years. (had to retire the 909 due to an issue with something stuck in the panel).

The 909 has a slight vertical viewing angle issue from the way I have it set up, the 959 is set on a low stand and I can see everything without an issue.

I'm a pretty heavy gamer, so mine is set on game mode nearly all the time with everything off except local dimming on standard.

Did a quick calibration with HCFR and I'm pretty satisfied with the results, though I suspect I may get better results by using a newer meter - mine is going on a few years old now.

I also think the meter I have may not work correctly with this particular set or I may be getting odd results, but none the less these are from my first attempt at it.

These are some quick post calibration results, starting from Warm 1 . My setup is PS3 ---- > Pioneer VSX-1120 ----> HX950

(I'd like to stress this is just a hobby that I'm still learning, so total amateur attempt at calibration here )

edit - going to rescale images - trying to move images to avs gallery instead of off site host :

LL
Edited by eekthekat - 9/28/12 at 11:35am
post #248 of 4483
Quote:
Originally Posted by eekthekat View Post

Got my 55" in a couple days ago: quick impression out of the box is that it matches or exceeds the 52" 909 I've been running for the last couple years. (had to retire the 909 due to an issue with something stuck in the panel).
The 909 has a slight vertical viewing angle issue from the way I have it set up, the 959 is set on a low stand and I can see everything without an issue.
I'm a pretty heavy gamer, so mine is set on game mode nearly all the time with everything off except local dimming on standard.
Did a quick calibration with HCFR and I'm pretty satisfied with the results, though I suspect I may get better results by using a newer meter - mine is going on a few years old now.
I also think the meter I have may not work correctly with this particular set or I may be getting odd results, but none the less these are from my first attempt at it.
These are some quick post calibration results, starting from Warm 1 . My setup is PS3 ---- > Pioneer VSX-1120 ----> HX950
(I'd like to stress this is just a hobby that I'm still learning, so total amateur attempt at calibration here )
edit - going to rescale images :

Does local dimming take a huge hit in Game Mode?
post #249 of 4483
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpmurr View Post

Does local dimming take a huge hit in Game Mode?

Not from what I can see - out of the box game mode local dimming defaults to off but it can still be turned on. I can see the change in black levels the instant I switched it on.

It's "playable" to me with local dimming on, feels roughly the same as my 909 setup. But I don't play competitive high level fighting games/shooters as much anymore.
post #250 of 4483
Do you have your RGB Gain and Bias Settings with Warm 1?
Quote:
Originally Posted by eekthekat View Post

Did a quick calibration with HCFR and I'm pretty satisfied with the results, though I suspect I may get better results by using a newer meter - mine is going on a few years old now.
I also think the meter I have may not work correctly with this particular set or I may be getting odd results, but none the less these are from my first attempt at it.
These are some quick post calibration results, starting from Warm 1 ./quote]
post #251 of 4483
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmjunker View Post

Do you have your RGB Gain and Bias Settings with Warm 1?
Quote:
Originally Posted by eekthekat View Post

Did a quick calibration with HCFR and I'm pretty satisfied with the results, though I suspect I may get better results by using a newer meter - mine is going on a few years old now.
I also think the meter I have may not work correctly with this particular set or I may be getting odd results, but none the less these are from my first attempt at it.
These are some quick post calibration results, starting from Warm 1

heavy disclaimer : I do have a receiver in my chain, so my results may not be suitable/workable for other setups. Probe (old Eye1 Display 2) might be old/unsuitable for this set. Also this was from my first attempt at it after watching a Blu-ray for an hour and a half (for warmup first).

This is on game mode with a PS3 ---> Pioneer receiver ---- > HX950. Using the old AV essentials Blu-ray for patterns and HCFR. Everything off, local dimming on. Gamma 0. I started at Warm1 because that seemed like the color temp that can be dialed in properly for a fixed greyscale.

I'm an admitted amateur/hobbyist still learning. I'll try and revisit this later with a second shot at it or make some corrections/observations, or try someone else's settings. If a settings thread pops up I'll follow up over there. :

R Gain : -5
G Gain : 0
B Gain : -7
R Bias : 0
G Bias : +1
B Bias : 0
post #252 of 4483
When I had a 929 for a week, I always played games in game mode with local dimming disabled. It still looked very good.
post #253 of 4483
I'm pulling the trigger on 2 of theses in a 65" in a couple of weeks. We made this mistake of believing a salesman that plasma didn't have IR or burn in issues. Thankfully, the two plasmas are going back and I'll be switching to this set. Initial feedback is promising, and I have a son who watches boxed content and we play Xbox. Will be so nice not to be afraid of static images anymore.
post #254 of 4483
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarrettF77 View Post

I'm pulling the trigger on 2 of theses in a 65" in a couple of weeks. We made this mistake of believing a salesman that plasma didn't have IR or burn in issues. Thankfully, the two plasmas are going back and I'll be switching to this set. Initial feedback is promising, and I have a son who watches boxed content and we play Xbox. Will be so nice not to be afraid of static images anymore.

I hear you. This is coming from a hardcore plasma guy but I'll be picking up the 65HX950 as soon as it's released in Canada. I can't tell you how often I've walked in my living room to find someone had left a static image on the TV for who knows how long and sure enough IR ensues. I've never had burn-in, just temporary IR but that's mainly because I've babied the set. Can't wait not to have to do that anymore, and I love the idea of gorilla glass on the 950. With a hyperactive 6 year old in the house, the gorilla glass will for sure save the day on a few occasions.
post #255 of 4483
guys i can tell you from my experience that owning both the Sharp elite and 929 they were both excellent sets. i would still have the 929 65" version if it wasn't for that vertical banding that i had. as far as the Elite lets just say it had some issues i couldn't live with. if they fixed the banding issues in the 65" 950 there should be many happy campers.
post #256 of 4483
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarrettF77 View Post

I'm pulling the trigger on 2 of theses in a 65" in a couple of weeks. We made this mistake of believing a salesman that plasma didn't have IR or burn in issues. Thankfully, the two plasmas are going back and I'll be switching to this set. Initial feedback is promising, and I have a son who watches boxed content and we play Xbox. Will be so nice not to be afraid of static images anymore.

I love my VT30 but I agree as far as IR...my set has sligtht image retention of the ESPN logo...is very faint and only noticable against an all white background but I want a set where I don't have to worry about what I watch and how long a particular image stays on the screen...that's why I'm looking at making the switch to a full array local dimming LED such as the Elite or HX950
post #257 of 4483
post #258 of 4483
Well that is less than a glowing review...
post #259 of 4483

gosh it sounds almost like a review for the 929...oh wait...
post #260 of 4483
from above review
Quote:
Part of the issue is the poor native contrast of the LCD panel itself. Turning off the LED Dynamic Control, we’re able to tell what the glass does on its own. So enabled, I measured an average native contrast ratio of 1,498:1. Compare this to the 3,483:1 I measured with the ELITE, or the 13,900:1 I measured with a Panasonic TC-P55VT50.

is that so bad? twice less contract vs Elite panel? is it real?
post #261 of 4483
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpmurr View Post

Does local dimming take a huge hit in Game Mode?
It takes a hit; it doesn't go pitch black. How "huge" of a hit is a very relative term. After having an XBR8 for years, I'm used to pitch black in fade-to-black scenes, which the HX950 also does in non-gaming modes. I wouldn't watch movies or TV shows in gaming mode. I'm a casual gamer, and the gaming mode is acceptable to me, but I'm sure others may disagree.

On a tangent, when I was using a Panny VT50 plasma, its black levels weren't pitch black either; that is one of the reasons I returned it.
post #262 of 4483
Quote:
Originally Posted by gorthocar View Post

It takes a hit; it doesn't go pitch black. How "huge" of a hit is a very relative term. After having an XBR8 for years, I'm used to pitch black in fade-to-black scenes, which the HX950 also does in non-gaming modes. I wouldn't watch movies or TV shows in gaming mode. I'm a casual gamer, and the gaming mode is acceptable to me, but I'm sure others may disagree.
On a tangent, when I was using a Panny VT50 plasma, its black levels weren't pitch black either; that is one of the reasons I returned it.
My son's VT50 is more of a really dark charcoal black, he can't believe the level of black on the Sony.
post #263 of 4483
With the Backlight set to only 7 any blooming is extremely mild, and much much less at 3.

Also, I would like to know which 3D glasses he uses as I did not observe any crosstalk. Let me guess... not the Titanium ones?

I do not agree with off-axis color. I think Koffas said this too? It took about 40˚ for me to see a noticeable difference. Good enough for me.

By not having a Color Management System...does this mean he missed the RGB Bias and Gain Settings? rolleyes.gif

Completely agree with him on his MotionFlow observations. I also found the colors to be very close and also feel that Warm 2 was slightly too warm. That's pretty much why I'm running at Warm 1.

I'm really glad to see some reviews start to come though. Noticed that his pre cal measurements showed slightly too much red and too little blue so I'll start there with the RGB settings. biggrin.gif
Edited by jmjunker - 9/28/12 at 6:22pm
post #264 of 4483
Quote:
Originally Posted by XxDeadlyxX View Post

Well that is less than a glowing review...

very underwhelming to say the least...they should have just painted over the HX929 on existing panels and labeled them as HX950
post #265 of 4483
Update: So I did finally notice the halo effect with white GUI elements over the black background off-axis.

Reducing Local Dimming as mentioned in that review was NOT the way I wanted to go. It just made the black grey...no thanks. And no love from using the Auto Light Limiter either.

So, I am trying two things with my custom profile. First, I am trying the backlighting even lower than 3...starting with no backlighting and will try 1, 2, and 3. I also remembered how MotionFlow on Clear Plus made the image dimmer and it was also effective with the black background zones.

The halo effect is obviously reduced with the backlighting off, and even more so with the Clear MF settings. Blacks are black, minimal halos, but well, it's a little dim... tongue.gif

Let see about living with MF: Clear and Backlight < 3...
post #266 of 4483
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmjunker View Post

Update: So I did finally notice the halo effect with white GUI elements over the black background off-axis.
Reducing Local Dimming as mentioned in that review was NOT the way I wanted to go. It just made the black grey...no thanks. And no love from using the Auto Light Limiter either.
So, I am trying two things with my custom profile. First, I am trying the backlighting even lower than 3...starting with no backlighting and will try 1, 2, and 3. I also remembered how MotionFlow on Clear Plus made the image dimmer and it was also effective with the black background zones.
The halo effect is obviously reduced with the backlighting off, and even more so with the Clear MF settings. Blacks are black, minimal halos, but well, it's a little dim... tongue.gif
Let see about living with MF: Clear and Backlight < 3...

What is the use of paying a premium for the full array backlit with local dimming feature if you turn it off?
post #267 of 4483
It's not off.

I'm just turning down the backlighting. It is a VERY bright display cranked up. wink.gif
post #268 of 4483
Definitely check it. Worth putting on the short list and seeing in person.

I think some of the critics on here are being silly by judging it without seeing it, or making a big deal about halo. I'll take a little glow from white letters on a black background off-axis rather than the washed out grey screen on my last LCD. In the scheme of things that is a pretty small issue for me. rolleyes.gif

There isn't a perfect set out there and all displays will have trade-offs. My hat is off to if anyone wants to run an Elite or Kuro or whatever, or go for something cheaper, or go for plasma, but I'm sorry this set is pretty damn nice, even for $3k. cool.gif

P.S.: I updated my setting spreadsheet up in my previous post if you want some baseline values when you go in.
post #269 of 4483
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmjunker View Post

I think some of the critics on here are being silly by judging it without seeing it

I hope I'm not being silly by buying the 65"HX950 without seeing it perform. The HX929 in the 46" size I've seen in stores looks acceptable to me, so I took the plunge. I've been happy with a Pioneer 5060HD plasma for seven years, but decided I wanted something larger and a little sharper. The Pioneer is 720P and the picture is good, if not real sharp. I don't care that much about the 3D, but think it will be fun for certain movies, so that was part of the draw. I'm buying from ABC Warehouse which is in Michigan, Ohio, and Indiana. They say they will have it in stock on Oct 1st, but I'm skeptical since Sony is saying they are shipping on October 26th from their online site. After reading many of the posts in this thread, you guys seem much more technically oriented than I. Which is probably good so that you have the skill and knowledge to extract the best picture out of the screen. I just fiddle with some of the basic settings until it looks decent to my eye and leave it at that. Maybe I'll take a hint from some of the informative posts and try a little harder, thanks.
post #270 of 4483
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmjunker View Post

With the Backlight set to only 7 any blooming is extremely mild, and much much less at 3.
Also, I would like to know which 3D glasses he uses as I did not observe any crosstalk. Let me guess... not the Titanium ones?
I do not agree with off-axis color. I think Koffas said this too? It took about 40˚ for me to see a noticeable difference. Good enough for me.

You should read his reviews in the context of him preferring plasma PQ. He will always recommend a PDP over an LED-LCD if you can control the light (and I would agree there; however most people don't want to pull the shades on a nice, sunny day to do their "critical" viewing). Here are his Top 5 from Nov 2011.

http://hdguru.com/the-5-best-hdtvs/6061/

The 929 is listed, though I didn't see a full review. The Elite got 4/5 "hearts."

I thought that Mr. Merson's assesement of the horizontal off-axis behavior was that the 950's color saturation does not degrade very much a few seats to the left or right (unlike the Elite). However, blooming is more pronounced, so the Elite wins out there.
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