Sony XBR-HX950 Owners' Thread (XBR-55HX9​50 and XBR-65HX95​0) - Page 12

Hi all, I spoke to a Sony rep. at Sony store in NYC about differences in XBR55hx929 and XBR55hx950. Rep told me both unit are almost identical with the 950 having thinner panel, better noise reduction and a different stand. Other than that both TV are the same, which is why the price remain the same.

thanks, this is what I was afraid of
but, thanks to Sony rep for honest confirmation

Would you mind to explain how to count those zones visually?
What mode and how did you detect it?

Unless you open panel and looked at LED pattern
I have 909 and I'd like to count zones on my set to be able count it when I'll be in store.

thanks.

As if sales reps have any farting clue what the engineers actually did.

Let's be realistic here.... all I care about... all most of you should care about it, is if the HX950 is better than the Samsung top of the line ES8000 in 2D, and at least similar in 3D. If it can beat the only high end but still mainstream Samsung set, its worth it.

I mean what is worse? Blooming, or edge lit?

I'm not surprised. Especially after reading HDTV Guru's review. He said there was still noticeable crosstalk in 3D. So all this talk about improved 3D has me wondering. Just what exactly was improved if it wasn't crosstalk?

There is no need for Noise Reduction, just watch a decent source ...So all there is left is the different stand, WOW

Lets just hope he was a well informed rep

logically it would increase halos artifacts, would it not?
Also, would be nice to know how this impacts DR (Dynamic Range) of picture.

I'd like to see on the same picture 0-10,11,12,13,14, 15 and 245,246,247,248,249,250-255
that should not be clipped like a anything below 20 are 0 and anything above 240 are 255.
Is it a lot to ask from top tier TV?

I had a factory rep in the Tangiers Sony Store tell me basically the same thing a few weeks ago, some picture improvements (minor) no extra LED zones some more apps and services. But the set is the same s a 929 with some cosmetic alterations the corners are somewhat rounded off vs the 929 bezel, overall slimmer. But he did say they worked out some screen problems from the 929 panels. I anxious to see how my 929 settings transfer over to the 950 he said I should achieve the same PQ.He also indicated that Sony was quite happy with this set they felt it was and remains the best LED panel for price point. I wonder if they upgraded speakers.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1318875/official-sony-hx929-owners-thread-46hx929-55hx929-65hx929-no-price-talk/14550#post_22420330
Edited by IMRIZZO - 10/1/12 at 6:02pm

Very interesting. I wonder, if Mitt is elected, will the 950 be outlawed in the US?

this is way off-topic, but

Somehow I see it right opposite to socialism - low powered LED in dark will get even less current, while high powered LED in whites will get extras that been taken from dark areas
So, this is what Mitt wants, doesn't he? And as result current will be distributed from lower to higher and without impacting in a middle.
Unless I got Sony logic incorrectly ...

As I wrote before this can impact dynamic range in dark and white areas.
I'd like to see gradient pattern on the TV as calibration will not show it

I wonder how this TV compare to the elite. Does anybody have experience on both?

Makes me wonder if it still has the input lag of the 929. That TV was just at the point where input lag was enough to feel a delay while playing games.

I have this TV coming tomorrow, but I'm thinking of just rejecting the order. I'm just not sure if I can justify $3k for it. I was tempted to get the Elite, but again, at this stage in the game, it kinda feels like a waste as we are a matter of years away before OLED displays hit affordable prices. That and seeing screen shots of calibrated Elites showing off Blu-ray movies was a bit concerning with that cyan issue as comparing it to the actual color profile of the movie showed a very noticeable difference in color.

I'm starting to consider buying a HX850 since it's got a good input lag and reviews for it have been overwhelmingly positive. Then, once OLED's or Crystal LCD for that matter becomes a bit more budget friendly, upgrading to that.

where did you see the color profiles for the movie itself?

I' m also a gamer(XBOX360 and PS3 via component and HDMI to a Sony 52S5100). I play various games including FPS and do not experience any lag. However, if lag is a problem with the 950, I would certainly consider another option. Maybe, the owners of the 950 would like to comment?

The HX850 seems to be turning some heads. Home theater was not the only ones impressed by it! http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/test-report-sony-kdl-55hx850-3d-lcd-tv
It seems to pretty much get you in the same ballpark as the 929 and saves you a nice chunk of change. It sounds like whatever small percentage of performance the 929 edges the 850 on, it make up for it with the price differential.

This is the dilemma for gamers who want high end televisions. I'm halfway tempted to keep the HX950 for a few days and then return it just to see how it even feels for games, but I'm uneasy about even doing it hearing it's literally a HX929. I had to return that TV because games just felt slightly sluggish and it impacted the experience. There was one fighting game in particular that was just not playable on it because actions were too day. While I didn't play a FPS on it, I did play the 3rd person shooter Binary Domain on it and struggled. It just feel very weighty. Plugging my PS3 into another display, the different was night and day. On the other display, it felt fast paced and didn't have a weighty feeling.

This is why I'm kinda tempted to look into the HX850 as I hear it's pretty amazing for a edge lit set and it does 28ms which is below the threshold of where input lag starts to impact gameplay.

I can't recall where the images are anymore, but it was early on when the cyan issue was being discovered. People were showing images of movies screen grabbed directly from a Blu-ray movie on a computer and comparing them to calibrated sets. Avatar was a good one to show the issue off. That was a simplest way to show the differences since naturally you're going to get correct colors from a screen grab on a PC. I'm sure it's a phenomenal TV and I'd love to have those insane blacks, I almost bought one myself, but it's just odd to see such a bizzare issue in such a expensive television when nothing else really seems to have said issue. I assume it's just the growing pains moving to a panel with a yellow sub pixel.

Given that it doesn't come in a 65", that still leaves only the HX950 or a 70" Elite.

Good Point! I wonder if it would have been a struggle to get similar edge lit performance on 65 inch screen.

the HX850 sounds really good but the fact remains that it's still an edge lit set and not full array local diming

In order to demonstrate the local-dimming "halo" effect, I've recorded a 720P video and uploaded it to YouTube. It's the worst possible set of conditions: dark room, black background, fine white detail (scrolling text), and severely horizontally off-axis. When I pan back around from behind the set my camera gain ramped up for a second and is not accurate. Evaluate after a second to let the camera exposure readjust to get a more accurate feel for the effect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8R60PfQhyY&feature=youtu.be

When viewing at such an angle you can get an idea of how the LED bounds the white text on the black background. There are 105 physical LED zones. But let's say theoretically if there were 420 LED local-dimming zones (2x in the X and Y), and the halo effect was reduced in half in each dimension, would that really be a game changer? It would still be there but just trimmed a little closer. I think accepting local-dimming for what is it, and really only having this limited effect in an otherwise "unmeasurable" contrast ratio worth it? I think so. For an LED and especially for the money. If this would really be that big of a problem for you then maybe seriously consider the Panasonic VT50 plasma as an alternative.

Also, it is inaccurate to call the "halo" effect blooming, as that is something else entirely in video recording.
Edited by jmjunker - 10/1/12 at 10:13pm

Thanks for the video. If that is the worst effect we can expect, I agree with your conclusions. Was the backlight set at 3 or 1? Have you play video games on your new XBR950?
Edited by mike50 - 10/1/12 at 10:24pm

Yeah, that is with my standard settings with backlight at 1, MotionFlow = Clear, and RGB Gain (-1,-1,-1). And keep in mind this is super close up in a dark room with a sensitive Sony TX1 with scrolling titles at angles 60-90˚. I'm using these settings most of the time these days and mostly fiddling with MotionFlow, And Reality Engine, Gamma, etc. within narrow ranges.

It's seriously not a problems for me at all. Some of these hyper-critical forum posts have me scratching my head for the most part. It's like lets find the weakest aspect of the technology and drill on it. It's starting to get irksome and trite.

Honestly, I could care less what people choose to go with. I'm not going to be a cheerleader and sell anyone on it but if my alternatives are a edge-lit Samsung, a plasma, or a $7-8k LED competitor with weak cyan and off-axis response then I'm fine thank you very much.

And when the halo effect wasn't enough ammo for the critics then the argument went that it wasn't as dramatic difference compared to the 929 as I was expecting. Okay, maybe it's incremental for the same price, and so their point is... A bunch of negativists IMO.

Again, go with one of the alternatives. Good luck with that. I was in Costco the other day and wanted to throw up on the Samsung 7000.

My main issues with the set are with the sound quality (typical flat panel I guess) and sometimes the darks almost seem too dark even though there is detail in the 0-30GL area. It might be that I'm not used to it, or that the mid-darks are too dark without the backlight.

Other than that it's a totally solid set. Something that will see me off to the next technology inflection point in another 5 years or so.

With regards to games, I've played GT5 in 2D and 3D, and F1 2012. No issues whatsoever. No crosstalk on the 3D in GT5 or with the internet trailers I've watched using the titanium glasses.

I'll try to grab some decent frame shots in the future but I'll probably wait until this new TV we expect an Elite killer for $3k crowd to kvetch the next new product introduction.
Edited by jmjunker - 10/1/12 at 11:08pm

does the 929 hv more imput lag than the 850 and elite?

When this TV was leaked, everybody was excited for it because we anticipated it would cure the issues with the HX929. With the Elite out, we all set our hopes up that this set would not stuff from it. Hearing that it's basically identical to the HX929 in this regard is a huge blow because this was one of the biggest changes we were all hoping for.

There is no getting around the fact that in terms of upgrades, this TV is nothing short of lackluster. Sony hardly upgraded the set compared to previous years. You're welcome to love the set and nothing is stopping you, this thread has just turned to disappointment simply because so little has changed.

Even if the panel and back-light array are the same who's to say that the computing power and algos behind them are the same as the 929? The Japanese press release seemed to indicated some changes. I've never seen a 929, much less side-by-side, or seen a pro comparison yet.

I'm honestly amazed that a set can optimize 105 LED's 240 times a second based on the picture content...and with all of the other real-time processing Pretty cool IMO. Keep in mind my last set was 7 years old though!

That's the big problem. Sony sold it to us as having "changes" and the most major change is the one I personally care the least about, 3D. Don't get me wrong, I'd probably try the set out myself, but seeing all the information and your video pretty much shows the HX929 heart inside of it. The HX929 was off my list after using one for a week because I'm sensitive to input lag.

I'm also coming from a old TV. I'm using a Sony Super Fine Pitch CRT HDTV. Even these days, I've received countless comments about how amazing the picture is on it. It's just getting old, overscan is getting too much for some games/tv content, and its edges are somewhat out of focus.