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Sony XBR-HX950 Owners' Thread (XBR-55HX9​50 and XBR-65HX95​0) - Page 14

post #391 of 4490
Post links with prices. CNET does not show this.
post #392 of 4490
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffreyMorrison View Post

Having reviewed both, the VT50 blew me away. The HX950 is an excellent TV, but I'd take the VT50 over it easily.
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/test-report-panasonic-tc-p55vt50-3d-plasma-hdtv
http://hdguru.com/sony-xbr55hx950-3d-led-lcd-hdtv-first-review/8724/
The Sony is way brighter, though, if that's something you need.

Just know that while the VT50 has nice features, it's still a plasma. So whites will look yellow, there is always a fuzz due to the plasma tech, overscan so the image can shift, and you DO NOT LEAVE IMAGES ONSCREEN. This included gaming, kids, and any other normal use for a TV. I bought a VT30 and GT30 and am switching them both out for this 950. I'm sick of babysitting a TV and having IR and burn in despite babying the sets. The plasma also generates a lot of heat, so it's great in the winter, not so much in the summer.

I'm disenchanted with Plasma, Geoffrey on the other hand likes the tech. So, just know the drawbacks to both sides going in.
post #393 of 4490
vaxick, i do think the 929 does has some lag because im getting less kills than i was playing fps on a much smaller tv, however i dont think its much because of game mode. anyway ive heard that lag for tvs this size is going to happen no matter what u do. do u know any 55in sets that dont hv any lag? ive read a few things online that can be done to reduce it but pq will take a def hit. im going to try and change my ps3 settings and maybe not use hdmi cords when i play fps.
post #394 of 4490
BTW - for gamers - LD has to be off, 909,929 and 950 has dedicated scene / profile "Game" where LD is off to reduce the lag
pros - less lag
cons - contrast backs to native 1-2k:1

if you FPS look for any TV / LCD panel with best NATIVE contrast and at the same time less pre processing
Kind the same applies to photo editing usage, except the lag isn't issue there - no LD

The direct full LED and LD are what makes this set so expensive that delivers mainly for watching movies
I have used 909 for all those and I've been happy with overall performance and compromises that I get from single LCD due to my home space limits.

Otherwise dedicated:
1. movies - plasma
2. games - TN panel LCD
3. photo - IPS

OLED suppose to address all those in one ...
post #395 of 4490
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikek753 View Post

BTW - for gamers - LD has to be off, 909,929 and 950 has dedicated scene / profile "Game" where LD is off to reduce the lag
pros - less lag
cons - contrast backs to native 1-2k:1
if you FPS look for any TV / LCD panel with best NATIVE contrast and at the same time less pre processing
Kind the same applies to photo editing usage, except the lag isn't issue there - no LD
The direct full LED and LD are what makes this set so expensive that delivers mainly for watching movies
I have used 909 for all those and I've been happy with overall performance and compromises that I get from single LCD due to my home space limits.
Otherwise dedicated:
1. movies - plasma
2. games - TN panel LCD
3. photo - IPS
OLED suppose to address all those in one ...

One thing, OLED has a short lifespan on blue color and it is also susceptible to IR/Burn in from a coupe people I've talked to. Likely nowhere as bad as a plasma, but the blue color have about 1/3 the lifespan of the the other two sub pixels is a big concern I'd have at the price point it commands. But I've been wrong before.
post #396 of 4490
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarrettF77 View Post

Just know that while the VT50 has nice features, it's still a plasma. So whites will look yellow, there is always a fuzz due to the plasma tech, overscan so the image can shift, and you DO NOT LEAVE IMAGES ONSCREEN. This included gaming, kids, and any other normal use for a TV. I bought a VT30 and GT30 and am switching them both out for this 950. I'm sick of babysitting a TV and having IR and burn in despite babying the sets. The plasma also generates a lot of heat, so it's great in the winter, not so much in the summer.
I'm disenchanted with Plasma, Geoffrey on the other hand likes the tech. So, just know the drawbacks to both sides going in.

Wow, that's a whole lot of misinformation and assumption.

There's no overscan on the VT50.

I'm not sure what you're doing to your TVs, but I've never had a problem with image retention in any of my testing of Panasonic plasmas.

The "whites will look yellow" doesn't make any sense to me. You can adjust/calibrate a plasma in the same way you can an LCD, so the whites can be as yellow, blue, green or as you want. The VT50 measured quite accurate in my testing.

Or, to turn it around, the HX950 is still an LCD. So it's going to have poor motion resolution, poor off-axis, and a worse contrast ratio.
post #397 of 4490
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarrettF77 View Post

One thing, OLED has a short lifespan on blue color and it is also susceptible to IR/Burn in from a coupe people I've talked to. Likely nowhere as bad as a plasma, but the blue color have about 1/3 the lifespan of the the other two sub pixels is a big concern I'd have at the price point it commands. But I've been wrong before.

The projected lifespan of OLEDs seems kind of low (about 6 yrs) but that's running your set 24 hrs/7days a week. They seem cool in regards to them not having all the imperfections of LEDs and Plasma but spending upwards of $7K for a set that won't last as long as an LED seems crazy to me. Personally, I'd go with a full-array/local dimmer over an OLED. There has to be some IR on an OLED. The LG and Samsung sets they release in late '12/early '13 will be too much for any normal consumer to invest in right away so it could some time before they make a big splash.
post #398 of 4490
Quote:
Originally Posted by kesando View Post

So are you stating that Value Electronics and Cleavland Plasma are not reputable dealers? Again no one is paying MSRP for an Elite and pricing around/below $6000 is pretty easy to come by if you know where to look. Also If you feel that the Sony is a better value then thats perfectly fine. We're all entitled to an opinion.smile.gif Perhaps the Sony will get a chance to prove itself at this years Flat Panal Shootout

If you take the emotion out of the post, he's saying that you can't get an Elite for near the price you quoted from a true, authorized Sharp/Elite dealer. I've tried myself and any dealer who does appear on Sharp's authorized dealer list has a price much higher than $6K.
post #399 of 4490
Quote:
Originally Posted by jenz View Post

If you take the emotion out of the post, he's saying that you can't get an Elite for near the price you quoted from a true, authorized Sharp/Elite dealer. I've tried myself and any dealer who does appear on Sharp's authorized dealer list has a price much higher than $6K.

What he is saying is not true. Myself and many others were successful in getting great pricing (around 6k) when dealing with both CP and VE (both Authorized to sell the Elite) with full support from Sharp . I Suspect that we are not supposed to quote pricing in this thread (?). It's also known that authorized dealers usually will not publicly quote pricing below MSRP. Why not give them a call and see for yourself? The Elite owners thread as well as the pricing thread should provide some good info on the subject as well.

I will refrain from further derailing this thread
post #400 of 4490
Quote:
Originally Posted by jenz View Post

If you take the emotion out of the post, he's saying that you can't get an Elite for near the price you quoted from a true, authorized Sharp/Elite dealer. I've tried myself and any dealer who does appear on Sharp's authorized dealer list has a price much higher than $6K.

So are you admitting that you either own or want to own an Elite? Just curious.
Still hoping to see some more reviews come in on this TV. Im still concerned about the weak contrast ratio but maybe I'm over thinking it
post #401 of 4490
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellotv View Post

vaxick, i do think the 929 does has some lag because im getting less kills than i was playing fps on a much smaller tv, however i dont think its much because of game mode. anyway ive heard that lag for tvs this size is going to happen no matter what u do. do u know any 55in sets that dont hv any lag? ive read a few things online that can be done to reduce it but pq will take a def hit. im going to try and change my ps3 settings and maybe not use hdmi cords when i play fps.

It's not the screen size impacting it, it's all the extra processing going on in the television. This is the reason behind the 929 being too slow for gaming. That being said, Sony does a much better job than the likes of Samsung in LG in their top tier lines. Samsung and LG see lag of around 50ms and even higher. That's just plain insane. It's impressive Sony's HX850 which rivals the competitors edge lit displays is way down at 28ms. I'm sure Sony cares to a degree about gaming on their TV's as they wouldn't want their TV's to be a embarrassment to use with their PlayStation. Sharp has always been great for input lag. Can't comment on the Elite though. Gaming details are beyond vague, but knowing one guy who specifically bought it for gaming and sold it shortly later, I'm going to guess it isn't the TV's strong point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarrettF77 View Post

One thing, OLED has a short lifespan on blue color and it is also susceptible to IR/Burn in from a coupe people I've talked to. Likely nowhere as bad as a plasma, but the blue color have about 1/3 the lifespan of the the other two sub pixels is a big concern I'd have at the price point it commands. But I've been wrong before.

LG came up with a solution for the blue pixel issue. Samsung still is using it and actually reported recently that the Galaxy S3 used a pentile display because of said issue.

IR is a very real on OLED displays. You'll find a fair number of smartphone owners out there that have discovered a image stuck on their screen. It's very much a very disappointing aspect of the technology, but I do believe it isn't as bad as it is on plasma sets.

The other issue with OLED displays is the mura effect. Look at a black screen in a dark room and on nearly every OLED phone/vita out there, you'll see black splotches. The problem there is they still have not discovered how to print OLED panels perfectly yet so that all pixels have the same amount of power running to them.

So yeah, I wouldn't be a early adopter of OLED. It's a exciting technology (So is Sony's Crystal LCD), but it's better to wait for the kinks to be worked out of it. Not that most (if any) of us here would even spend the amount they are coming out for later this year and in 2013. They expect them to get into the reasonable price range around 2015 depending on how quick that Sony/Panasonic OLED plant gets into full production.
Edited by vaxick - 10/2/12 at 5:35pm
post #402 of 4490
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffreyMorrison View Post

Wow, that's a whole lot of misinformation and assumption.
There's no overscan on the VT50.
I'm not sure what you're doing to your TVs, but I've never had a problem with image retention in any of my testing of Panasonic plasmas.
The "whites will look yellow" doesn't make any sense to me. You can adjust/calibrate a plasma in the same way you can an LCD, so the whites can be as yellow, blue, green or as you want. The VT50 measured quite accurate in my testing.
Or, to turn it around, the HX950 is still an LCD. So it's going to have poor motion resolution, poor off-axis, and a worse contrast ratio.

You said it perfectly. In your testing of plasmas. There is a difference in testing and ownership. Long term ownership shows these flaws and they utterly ruin the experience. Sorry, but plasma is a horrid technology. I tried to like it for over a year.
post #403 of 4490
Quote:
Originally Posted by drenched View Post

even the box looks really pretty!...can't wait to hear impressions on the set...I'm tired of plasma's limited brightness and want to go LCD (full array, local dimming only) but only if it matches or exceeds the best plasma setlog

dude you copied and pasted my exact post from this thread (Post #2)...plagiarism!...maybe I should be flattered
post #404 of 4490
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffreyMorrison View Post

Wow, that's a whole lot of misinformation and assumption.
There's no overscan on the VT50.
I'm not sure what you're doing to your TVs, but I've never had a problem with image retention in any of my testing of Panasonic plasmas.
The "whites will look yellow" doesn't make any sense to me. You can adjust/calibrate a plasma in the same way you can an LCD, so the whites can be as yellow, blue, green or as you want. The VT50 measured quite accurate in my testing.
Or, to turn it around, the HX950 is still an LCD. So it's going to have poor motion resolution, poor off-axis, and a worse contrast ratio.
Different people have different preferences, and because there isn't any TV out there that is perfect, you have to decide what you are willing to compromise on. I gave the VT50 an honest try and I wanted to like it, but it was a horrible experience: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1430346/sony-xbr-hx950-owners-thread-xbr-55hx9-50-and-xbr-65hx95-0#post_22420754
The plasma dithering / pixel noise is intense on the VT50. The flicker drove me batty. And the VT50 definitely has a major image retention / burn-in problem. Maybe it is more obvious in my usage with a HTPC and web browsing, but I could clearly see icon locations and windows and even text after hours of watching TV shows and movies.
I don't think he was saying that the VT50 always had overscan, but you had to turn on some overscan for it to be able to shift the image around slightly to reduce burn-in. I'm not sure if that is true; I always had my VT50 in full pixel mode without any overscan.

So far, I am extremely happy with my HX950. It gives me the best picture with the compromises I can live with. I returned the VT50 after a couple of weeks of trying to like it, but I have no plans for returning the HX950; it is a keeper.
post #405 of 4490
post #406 of 4490
Quote:
Originally Posted by vaio23 View Post

Found a video online
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8R60PfQhyY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Looks good.

I don't watch credits anyway. Can someone here who is familiar with LCD technology tell me exactly how many real world situations would lead to seeing blooming ? I don't really watch a lot of dark screen content with white letters on it? I've been a Plasma guy for a long time , but I am looking for a good LCD because of Hockey and heat generation in the room. I just wish this TV had some contrast improvements over the 929 obviously the Elite is on the list but a 65 inch would be perfect and 70 may be a tad to large at 8.5 feet
post #407 of 4490
Quote:
Originally Posted by vaio23 View Post

Found a video online
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8R60PfQhyY&feature=youtube_gdata_player


See the following post in this very thread...

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1430346/sony-xbr-hx950-owners-thread-xbr-55hx9-50-and-xbr-65hx95-0/330#post_22453536
Edited by net_synapse - 10/2/12 at 8:21pm
post #408 of 4490
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmjunker View Post

In order to demonstrate the local-dimming "halo" effect, I've recorded a 720P video and uploaded it to YouTube. It's the worst possible set of conditions: dark room, black background, fine white detail (scrolling text), and severely horizontally off-axis. When I pan back around from behind the set my camera gain ramped up for a second and is not accurate. Evaluate after a second to let the camera exposure readjust to get a more accurate feel for the effect.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8R60PfQhyY&feature=youtu.be
When viewing at such an angle you can get an idea of how the LED bounds the white text on the black background. There are 105 physical LED zones. But let's say theoretically if there were 420 LED local-dimming zones (2x in the X and Y), and the halo effect was reduced in half in each dimension, would that really be a game changer? It would still be there but just trimmed a little closer. I think accepting local-dimming for what is it, and really only having this limited effect in an otherwise "unmeasurable" contrast ratio worth it? I think so. For an LED and especially for the money.
Also, it is inaccurate to call the "halo" effect blooming, as that is something else entirely in video recording.

Now that we have seen the worst we can expect. Could you please upload another 720p video or 1080p(if you can) to show us the best smile.gif
post #409 of 4490
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike50 View Post

Now that we have seen the worst we can expect. Could you please upload another 720p video or 1080p(if you can) to show us the best smile.gif

What did you have in mind? I have Sin City and LA Confidential on Blu-Ray. Also, have the Disney WOW disc but that would mostly be animation sequences. Oh, and all 22 episodes of 007 on Bond 50.
Edited by jmjunker - 10/2/12 at 9:31pm
post #410 of 4490
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmjunker View Post

What did you have in mind? I have Sin City and LA Confidential on Blu-Ray. Also, have the Disney WOW disc but that would mostly be animation sequences. Oh, and all 22 episodes of 007 on Bond 50.

A letterbox Blu-Ray would be nice(either SinCity or LA Conf), your choice of sequence to show PQ.
post #411 of 4490
Here is the Sin City Blu-Ray Menu loop which consists mostly of fast motion white on black mixed animation and film content.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLP5c-38Lyg&feature=plcp

Big fan of Robert Rodriguez, Frank Miller, and TroubleMaker Films. Video menu settings are also shown.

This is being played in a dim room on-axis. Do you see any local-dimming artifacts?

Notable settings that may affect white-on-black performance are:
  • Backlight = 1
  • MotionFlow = Clear (~10% brightness reduction)
  • Picture is cranked up at 99
  • Reality Engine = Auto
  • Dynamic LED = Auto
  • Gamma = +1
  • RGB Gain (-1,-1,-1)
  • RGB Bias (-5,0,-5) with White Point = Warm 1

Will follow-up with live movie content shortly.
post #412 of 4490
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmjunker View Post

Here is the Sin City Blu-Ray Menu loop which consists mostly of fast motion white on black mixed animation and film content.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLP5c-38Lyg&feature=plcp
Big fan of Robert Rodriguez, Frank Miller, and TroubleMaker Films. Video menu settings are also shown.
This is being played in a dim room on-axis. Do you see any local-dimming artifacts?
Notable settings that may affect white-on-black performance are:
  • Backlight = 1
  • MotionFlow = Clear (~10% brightness reduction)
  • Picture is cranked up at 99
  • Reality Engine = Auto
  • Dynamic LED = Auto
  • Gamma = +1
  • RGB Gain (-1,-1,-1)
  • RGB Bias (-5,0,-5) with White Point = Warm 1
Will follow-up with live movie content shortly.

Hey, that was fast. Thanks a lot. Nice to see the video settings. The white on black does not exhibit any halo effects. Looking forward to the live movie content.
post #413 of 4490
hi jmjunker,

Would you mind to tell how many do you see in Cinema and in Game mode
black.php
and
white.php

and also
gradient.php

thanks
post #414 of 4490
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikek753 View Post

hi jmjunker,
Would you mind to tell how many do you see in Cinema and in Game mode
black.php
and
white.php
and also
gradient.php
thanks

Take a look at the WOW calibration walkthrough I am posting now. There are several gradients shown that may give you a better idea of what you are looking for.
post #415 of 4490
Junker....any chance you get to find some hockey games to post? NHL network has replays on all the time .
I see your backlight is set to 1, it might have to be bumped up for sports, and in your opinion does bumping it up to say 3 4 or5 increase blooming too much
post #416 of 4490
Quote:
Originally Posted by bzal1122 View Post

Junker....any chance you get to find some hockey games to post? NHL network has replays on all the time .
I see your backlight is set to 1, it might have to be bumped up for sports, and in your opinion does bumping it up to say 3 4 or5 increase blooming too much

I think it could be way too bright. This set will not have any problem with brightness that is for sure. I'm messing with contrast at about 90, when about 99 is what it takes to barely wash out the whitest grey level on the advanced test grid. And I've played with it all the way down to ~70. You don't see much of an apparent brightness jump with backlighting until the the steps 3 and 7. Almost, like the LED algo redistributes somehow.

I'd guess you'd want Motionflow on Clear or Clear Plus to sharpen up the fast play, and that could reduce the brightness some, by 10% to 30%.

I can look for look for something, but my camera doesn't capture the dynamic range of the set. It only shows about 1/2 of the range on the test strips that I am seeing with my eyes.
Edited by jmjunker - 10/3/12 at 8:40am
post #417 of 4490
Quote:
Originally Posted by kesando View Post

So are you stating that Value Electronics and Cleavland Plasma are not reputable dealers?

I'm saying you are FLAT OUT WRONG!! From Cleveland Plasma's site: PRO-70X5FD MSRP $8499 Call for best price

As if they're going to give it to me for under $6K when they list $8499. You are delusional. I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE 60" IT IS TOO SMALL!
post #418 of 4490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavius View Post

I'm saying you are FLAT OUT WRONG!! From Cleveland Plasma's site: PRO-70X5FD MSRP $8499 Call for best price
As if they're going to give it to me for under $6K when they list $8499. You are delusional. I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE 60" IT IS TOO SMALL!

your wrong..i could of bought the 70" elite 10 months agofor 6k from him. who gives a crap what it says on his site. why don't you call him to prove yourself wrong. btw,who gives a hoot about the the elite pricing i'm pretty sure the 950 members are tried of discussing this
post #419 of 4490
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmjunker View Post

Take a look at the WOW calibration walkthrough I am posting now. There are several gradients shown that may give you a better idea of what you are looking for.
hi,

sorry, what is the URL? Pls.
I'm not sure I'll be able to see it via yourtube.
What do you see by your eyes and not by camera?
Do you see black at 001 and white at 254?
Do you see bands or all linear gradient?

tnx
post #420 of 4490
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoffreyMorrison View Post

Wow, that's a whole lot of misinformation and assumption.
There's no overscan on the VT50.
I'm not sure what you're doing to your TVs, but I've never had a problem with image retention in any of my testing of Panasonic plasmas.
The "whites will look yellow" doesn't make any sense to me. You can adjust/calibrate a plasma in the same way you can an LCD, so the whites can be as yellow, blue, green or as you want. The VT50 measured quite accurate in my testing.
Or, to turn it around, the HX950 is still an LCD. So it's going to have poor motion resolution, poor off-axis, and a worse contrast ratio.

Actually, Barrett is pretty much dead on in terms of plasma limitations. I have owned several different plasmas and an LCD. More plasmas than LCDs to be honest, but never again. The whites are not yellow, but if you have an all white screen, that white is going to look at best bright gray compared to the same white being just a small square on the screen, thanks to ABL.

And motion resolution? No, that depends on how you define motion resolution. BLUR is almost non-existent on plasmas, true, but judder is an extreme problem still, and since most plasmas have no motion interpolation, plasmas are just judder hell, especially for gamers with consoles that have 30FPS limited games. Flashing, ghosting double images galore.

But let's not get into this... arguing about plasma vs LCD is like arguing about religion or politics.
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