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Sony XBR-HX950 Owners' Thread (XBR-55HX9​50 and XBR-65HX95​0) - Page 17

post #481 of 4490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavius View Post

Have you tried the Playstation 3D glasses? I honestly think they might be better than even the Ti glasses. I have a pair of each and will be comparing the two when I get the 65". The Playstation 3D glasses don't have that big thick black center piece, and any power LED is probably in a different spot (haven't turned them on yet). They also wrap around to eliminate side light. They are supposed to be very good compared to the 250 glasses, so its worth looking into unless you just want to wait for my report. smile.gif Have you ever tried a game on a Samsung in Standard mode with AMP on? Is the HX950 worse than that in non-Game modes?

For a 3D experience the PlayStation ones are better. The reason being, they block your field of vision on the sides. This is important for the 3D experience because the more your vision is blocked, the stronger the 3D. It's the same concept as to why 3D headsets block outside light. Your brain is easy to trick when all your eyes are able to see is what the glasses/headset wants you to see.
post #482 of 4490
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellotv View Post

if you turn your head at all on the 929, the color on the 3d will distort. is that same with this set.?
this guy flavius doesnt play fps, so the lag will not be a problem. im telling you my lilltle 26 samsung that doesnt even have a game mode option blew the 929 away when it comes to lag on the game battlefield 3, which i play all the time on a ps3. from what i found online, guys that are really good at these fps games play on these rinky dik tv sets that hes talking so much crap abt. if i do get a 950, no way in hell on playing bf3 on it,. i will just play that on the samsung 26in.

The 26" Samsung is probably not much more than a glorified monitor using a TN panel, which is the panel type that has the least lag, but the worst viewing angles and contrast ratios in the world. I DO play FPS, just not religiously. I'm not very good online though, and no amount of reduced lag is going to help me with that. Serious FPS players really need to be using a mouse and keyboard on a PC anyway. I guess if lag is that much more important to you that a great looking, smooth picture of a nice size, then by all means play on a tiny old TN panel.

Look, I don't know if you read my earlier posts, but I plan to do an analysis with a lag timer from my PC fed to both the HX950 and my old Samsung A650 using my HDMI splitter, and capture time differences using a super fast Sony DSLR camera in a variety of different modes (game, standard, motion interpolation on and off, etc). And if I don't like the HX950 for some substantial reason, before returning it or selling it I will probably get an 65ES8000 Samsung and do the same comparison. The best hope for good PQ and low input lag besides a Sony TV would be the ES8000, IMHO, not an Elite. Someone already mentioned that some gamer bought an Elite and returned it due to lag or some such.
post #483 of 4490
Quote:
Originally Posted by vaxick View Post

My personal experience with the 929 was disappointing for gaming. I felt lag and when I played the same game on another display, my assumptions were confirmed. It's my opinion. I'm not a casual gamer. I'm a hardcore gamer. I own over 100 games for the PS3 alone. I also collect retro video games. It's my hobby. This is why I place gaming as a higher importance than movie/television viewing.

The number of games you own does mean squat in terms of your hardcore-ness. Compared to my current gen game library, 100 PS3 games would make you very casual. wink.gif Now you might be a more hardcore gamer, but I'm a probably more a hardcore collector smile.gif
post #484 of 4490
Enter... The Collector.
post #485 of 4490
I saw the XBR-65HX950 at a Sony sponsored event this evening at Video and Audio Center in Santa Monica, CA, and got to talk to the Sony reps, as well as, get a detailed demo.

It appeared they improved the off-axis viewing in the horizonal plane. It was quite good. The vertical plane definitely lost contrast when you got even to the top or bottom of the screen.

I didn't see any blooming. That's not to say there isn't any, but it is more subtle than expected.

They brought up a greyscale chart, and the TV did well, even in dimmer Theater mode.

They said the Theater mode turns off all processing, including sharpening, and Motion Flow. There is a dedicated button on the remote for turning on Theater mode.

There are no THX or ISF calibration modes, which is surprising considering the retail price is $6199, and this being their top of the line unit. In the menus, they only had a one point gamma adjustment. They did say there are more adjustments in the service menu, but did not show them to me or elaborate much.

I didn't see any clouding, and, of course, with local dimming, no flashlighting. I did see very, very slight dirty screen effect.

I asked about how many local dimming zones there were, and they said they are not giving out that information. They said their official response is "adequate".

3D looked good, but there wasn't much material to test cross-talk. There is only an IR emitter, so no RF Bluetooth. They indicated that the reason there is no Bluetooth, is because it "might" interfere with the embedded WiFi. This sounded more like speculation than engineering results.

They have a very handy WiFi interface and apps for iOS and Android phones and tablets for streaming video directly to the TV, bypassing any home WiFi system. In other words, it had its own access point. They said a Microsoft Windows Phone app may be coming. This is an nice feature, because you then get full signal strength to the TV, and the highest bitrate possible.

There are some free movies from the Sony catelog which can be accessed from the TV's app. The 3D versions are not free.

The Google TV box also integrates with the TV menus, rather than just being an input on one of the HDMI ports.

The panel is faced with Gorilla Glass, but before anyone starts getting rough with their TVs, the Gorilla Glass is coated with an anti-glare coating which can be scratched. Also the glass is still pretty thin, and pushing on it will result in LCD color distortion, as the Sony rep demostrated by rapping on the TV with his knuckle.

Now for the overal picture quality. I had mixed feelings. The picture was stunning on the one hand, with sharp detail and good color, but on the other hand, had an over processed, unnatural look. Skin, for example, just didn't look like skin. This really surprised me, because it did seem that Sony paid attention to details. They said it had 14 bit color processing, but I don't know if that was 4:4:4 or subsampled. Unless, the source material was bad for this demo or the TV could be adjusted to a more natural look, unfortunately, I would have to pass on the HX950 at this time.

Michael
Edited by Michael2000 - 10/5/12 at 12:38am
post #486 of 4490
Unfortunately these threads are breeding grounds for trolls & flamers who have no intention of buying the set in question. They constantly try to derail the threads with none issue questions, or inducing a brand vs brand argument. The same thing was done at the 929 thread. Questions of a specific brand model vs topic brand model regarding a particular subject is understandable but not the constant arguing form non-owners.
Edited by IMRIZZO - 10/5/12 at 6:41am
post #487 of 4490
Quote:
Originally Posted by IMRIZZO 
Unfortunately these threads are breeding grounds for trolls & flamers who have no intention of buying the set in question. They constantly try to derail the threads with none issue questions, or inducing a brand vs brand argument. The same thing was done at the 929 thread. Questions of a specific brand model vs topic brand model regarding a particular subject is understandable but not the constant arguing form non-owners.

owner threads are not privat but open, every non-owner who wants to can post in 'em wink.gif



*when one considers a post to be inappropriate one can report that post to a moderator.
post #488 of 4490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael2000 View Post

I saw the XBR-65HX950 at a Sony sponsored event this evening at Video and Audio Center in Santa Monica, CA, and got to talk to the Sony reps, as well as, get a detailed demo.
It appeared they improved the off-axis viewing in the horizonal plane. It was quite good. The vertical plane definitely lost contrast when you got even to the top or bottom of the screen.
I didn't see any blooming. That's not to say there isn't any, but it is more subtle than expected.
They brought up a greyscale chart, and the TV did well, even in dimmer Theater mode.
They said the Theater mode turns off all processing, including sharpening, and Motion Flow. There is a dedicated button on the remote for turning on Theater mode.
There are no THX or ISF calibration modes, which is surprising considering the retail price is $6199, and this being their top of the line unit. In the menus, they only had a one point gamma adjustment. They did say there are more adjustments in the service menu, but did not show them to me or elaborate much.
I didn't see any clouding, and, of course, with local dimming, no flashlighting. I did see very, very slight dirty screen effect.
I asked about how many local dimming zones there were, and they said they are not giving out that information. They said their official response is "adequate".
3D looked good, but there wasn't much material to test cross-talk. There is only an IR emitter, so no RF Bluetooth. They indicated that the reason there is no Bluetooth, is because it "might" interfere with the embedded WiFi. This sounded more like speculation than engineering results.
They have a very handy WiFi interface and apps for iOS and Android phones and tablets for streaming video directly to the TV, bypassing any home WiFi system. In other words, it had its own access point. They said a Microsoft Windows Phone app may be coming. This is an nice feature, because you then get full signal strength to the TV, and the highest bitrate possible.
There are some free movies from the Sony catelog which can be accessed from the TV's app. The 3D versions are not free.
The Google TV box also integrates with the TV menus, rather than just being an input on one of the HDMI ports.
The panel is faced with Gorilla Glass, but before anyone starts getting rough with their TVs, the Gorilla Glass is coated with an anti-glare coating which can be scratched. Also the glass is still pretty thin, and pushing on it will result in LCD color distortion, as the Sony rep demostrated by rapping on the TV with his knuckle.
Now for the overal picture quality. I had mixed feelings. The picture was stunning on the one hand, with sharp detail and good color, but on the other hand, had an over processed, unnatural look. Skin, for example, just didn't look like skin. This really surprised me, because it did seem that Sony paid attention to details. They said it had 14 bit color processing, but I don't know if that was 4:4:4 or subsampled. Unless, the source material was bad for this demo or the TV could be adjusted to a more natural look, unfortunately, I would have to pass on the HX950 at this time.
Michael

Was the set Calibrated? Sounds like a good calibration could mitigate what you saw..
post #489 of 4490
Quote:
Originally Posted by bzal1122 View Post

Was the set Calibrated? Sounds like a good calibration could mitigate what you saw..

This. wink.gif

P.S.: Skin Naturalizer looks terrible. Almost like someone caked on a bunch of MAC foundation for a Kabuki play in the Gion district.
Edited by jmjunker - 10/5/12 at 10:03am
post #490 of 4490
For people who think that is is strange for a polarized image to deteriorate when rotated, please take a look at what a polarized lens is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polarizer

The fact that it is active is awesome. This means that you can be off-axis and the lenses can sync much better to the displayed images.

I'd love to see a comparison between the PS3 and Ti glasses. I didn't notice the green LED, but I'll take a closer look and try a blacked out room. If it's noticeable, can you hit it with a sharpie?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmjunker View Post

You can tilt your head about 30˚ without it impacting anything. At about 30˚ the colors start to go off (with the Ti glasses). It's what polarized lenses are going to do.
Not sure why anyone would need to view 3D tilted more than that unless it involved some peyote-induced transcendental mind trip. No flicker either. smile.gif
post #491 of 4490
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post

owner threads are not privat but open, every non-owner who wants to can post in 'em wink.gif
*when one considers a post to be inappropriate one can report that post to a moderator.

I think you are over-reading or misinterpreting my post, what I'm trying to emphasize is that most of those opposing posters are clearly trying to 'ruffle feathers' and actually have no intent of buying (in this case) a 950 they only want to add unnecessary confusion and or distractions. in most instances do not even own the panels they are expanding about. The purpose of these 'owners' threads is to establish an information base for owners or prospective buyers to research and educate themselves to make a more informed purchase. Owners who have had hands-on experiences for a much longer period of time than do profession reviewers, have more of an opportunity to delve into their panels and find those anomalies that reviewers who have limited time to assess and prepare their reports. And often have had bad experiences with a particular panel or manufacturer and are just vengeful. And immediately express that this $$$$ top of the line panel should be perfect because of the price. There are a helluva lot more panels sold, than there are people bitching about their dissatisfaction's. Most buyers who are happy with their buy do not join forums to boast of their satisfactory purchases, usually the only time they do join is to seek info about possible problems, and/or announce their problems and are looking for a soundboard or seek advice on how to resolve said problems..
I'm a S/mod at another large HD forum and a members at many other HD forums, and I'm constantly researching info and trying to help newcomers seeking info. believe me a newbie gets turned off immediately when they encounter these inter-thread quarrels because of the confusion they generate.
post #492 of 4490
This sounds like an upgrade from the HX929 which is awesome. But I gotta ask is the screen as glossy as the 929? The thought of a coating of anti-reflection worries me because I generally don't like matte screens at all as it hurts the contrast. So is it the same screen as last years?

Thanks.
post #493 of 4490
Well, just got the call. My 65HX950 is being delivered tomorrow. Unfortunately, my wife has the flu and can't help me lift it out of the box most likely. eek.gif I need more friends. tongue.gif
post #494 of 4490
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmjunker View Post

This. wink.gif
P.S.: Skin Naturalizer looks terrible. Almost like someone caked on a bunch of MAC foundation for a Kabuki play in the Gion district.
jmjunker, I think this could be the answer as to what I saw with the unnatural looking skin. It probably was on, since, of course, Sony would feel that the Skin Naturalizer is a good thing (or they wouldn't put it on the TV). smile.gif Anyone know if theater mode turns this off? Sony said theater mode turned off all processing, but I have my doubts. I don't know if the set was calibrated, so that's why I preferenced my dissatisfaction with the picture with that contingency. I doubt it was. Not only that, the Sony reps were freely moving about the menus demonstrating them, including the picture menus.

It looked to me like the set had the potential for an excellent picture. I would just need to see that before buying.

Michael
post #495 of 4490
Quote:
Originally Posted by IMRIZZO View Post

Unfortunately these threads are breeding grounds for trolls & flamers who have no intention of buying the set in question. They constantly try to derail the threads with none issue questions, or inducing a brand vs brand argument. The same thing was done at the 929 thread. Questions of a specific brand model vs topic brand model regarding a particular subject is understandable but not the constant arguing form non-owners.

rolleyes.gif

What troll is going to spend all the time to do a detailed report of the TV?

Sheez.

Michael
post #496 of 4490
Quote:
Originally Posted by IMRIZZO View Post

Unfortunately these threads are breeding grounds for trolls & flamers who have no intention of buying the set in question. They constantly try to derail the threads with none issue questions, or inducing a brand vs brand argument. The same thing was done at the 929 thread. Questions of a specific brand model vs topic brand model regarding a particular subject is understandable but not the constant arguing form non-owners.

I agree with you in general. While, I'd like to know trusted / real info model vs model as well with a proof URL.
Would be nice to have rating system that for every post with addition to like would be dislike that lets say after 5 or 10 dislikes post would be automatically removed and poster banned from the thread.
And if someone banned from 5-10 threads will be locked from posting to any forum here.

something like this would limit people to post personal attacks or trolling.
Sure anyone can re create new account, but to whom you will trust later? poster with 100+ posts or with 1-5 only.

This thread has tons of posts, while only a few is owned this set and a few have seen it at all, the rest are opinions at best.
post #497 of 4490
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikek753 View Post

This thread has tons of posts, while only a few is owned this set and a few have seen it at all, the rest are opinions at best.

I'm sorry, but I don't see many people here with measuring equipment, so, in essence, all we have are opinions, even by those who own the set.

There is no doubt there are trolls. However, there is another type of insidious troll, the one who calls everyone else a troll who they don't agree with, or has any negative information to report on "their" product..

I like the free flow of information, and opinions.

Michael
post #498 of 4490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael2000 View Post

jmjunker, I think this could be the answer as to what I saw with the unnatural looking skin. It probably was on, since, of course, Sony would feel that the Skin Naturalizer is a good thing (or they wouldn't put it on the TV). smile.gif Anyone know if theater mode turns this off? Sony said theater mode turned off all processing, but I have my doubts. I don't know if the set was calibrated, so that's why I preferenced my dissatisfaction with the picture with that contingency. I doubt it was. Not only that, the Sony reps were freely moving about the menus demonstrating them, including the picture menus.
It looked to me like the set had the potential for an excellent picture. I would just need to see that before buying.
Michael

Probably just typical non-technical sales/marketing guys who turn on everything to show features. tongue.gif

It's off by default, but you can easily turn on/off any of those bells-and-whistles for each input and/or each profile (Standard/Vivid/Custom). I definitely have that one off on my settings sheet! wink.gif

P.S.: If Sony is out there and you need technical marketing I am for hire... MS Chemistry & Biochemistry (w/ image processing) and MBA. biggrin.gif
Edited by jmjunker - 10/5/12 at 1:18pm
post #499 of 4490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavius View Post

Well, just got the call. My 65HX950 is being delivered tomorrow. Unfortunately, my wife has the flu and can't help me lift it out of the box most likely. eek.gif I need more friends. tongue.gif

That's great news! Now you're on the hook for a review with some pics of the 65"! tongue.gif

IIRC, you ordered this direct from Sony right? They must be trying to under-commit and over-deliver as their website still says " Accepting Pre-orders Estimated ship date: 10/26/2012"

Amazon still shows "This item will be released on October 17, 2012."
post #500 of 4490
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmjunker View Post

Probably just typical non-technical sales/marketing guys who turn on everything to show features. tongue.gif
It's off by default, but you can easily turn on/off any of those bells-and-whistles for each input and/or each profile (Standard/Vivid/Custom). I definitely have that one off on my settings sheet! wink.gif
P.S.: If Sony is out there and you need technical marketing I am for hire... MS Chemistry & Biochemistry (w/ image processing) and MBA. biggrin.gif

You're probably right. I think they had every bell and whistle running. smile.gif I'm looking forward to taking another look now that I have gotten some tips from people here.

By the way, the Vivid mode wasn't too bad. For most TVs, this mode is blinding, and the colors are blown out. It was more subdued on this set.

Somebody need to hre you right away with those credentials.smile.gif

Michael
post #501 of 4490
What mode do the calibrators calibrate on these sets of there is no ISF mode? I think I recall Chad B saying the 929 calibrated pretty easy. Can't wait to hear Flavius review on the 65. That's the one I'm looking at
post #502 of 4490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael2000 View Post

Somebody need to hre you right away with those credentials.smile.gif
Michael

Haha. Thanks bud. I need to make more money to pay back USC Marshall and support my AV habit... wink.gif Hear that Koffas, put in a good word for me up in the Silicon Forest! smile.gif (He's from UCLA... rolleyes.gif) Did I mention I won the 2012 Y-Prize Biz Plan Competition and $50k? I can afford 2 4k's!

On a serious note, this is what Skin Naturalizer looks like:


Edited by jmjunker - 10/5/12 at 8:31pm
post #503 of 4490
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmjunker View Post

Haha. Thanks bud. I need to make more money to pay back USC Marshall and support my AV habit... wink.gif Hear that Koffas, put in a good word at Intel for me! smile.gif (He's from UCLA... rolleyes.gif) Did I mention I won the 2012 Y-Prize Biz Plan Competition and $50k? I can afford 2 4k's!
On a serious note, this is what Skin Naturalizer looks like:

biggrin.gif Too funny!

Good luck on the job hunt.

Michael
post #504 of 4490
Thread Starter 
We'll see what happens at the end of fb season. smile.gif
Though I will say your commentary is some of the most colorful I've seen on AVS.

On this page alone...

"Not sure why anyone would need to view 3D tilted more than that unless it involved some peyote-induced transcendental mind trip."
"Skin Naturalizer looks terrible. Almost like someone caked on a bunch of MAC foundation for a Kabuki play in the Gion district."
post #505 of 4490
If Sony has truly reduced the blooming compared to last years model, that is a very positive thing.
post #506 of 4490
Flavius is getting his 65 today!!!!! Get that thing up and running
post #507 of 4490
Flavius, pictures please, Thx


vaderdag247.gif
post #508 of 4490
I'm looking forward to hearing his POV on the 65". I believe he has owned the ES 8000, as do I now.
post #509 of 4490
Yes, folks, I can try to put up pictures of the 65" OFF at least today. ON might have to wait until I have enough help to lift it out of the box because its supposed to be 100 pounds. I never had an ES8000. The ES8000 was my second choice behind the HX950, but I couldn't find the 65ES8000 in stock from any reputable store these past few months. Should be here between 1 and 5 Pacific time if the phone call last night was to be believed, though I find it strange they'd deliver on a Saturday.

Oh and if I'm going to do pictures, you can be sure they won't be cell phone quality. rolleyes.gif
post #510 of 4490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavius View Post

Yes, folks, I can try to put up pictures of the 65" OFF at least today. ON might have to wait until I have enough help to lift it out of the box because its supposed to be 100 pounds. I never had an ES8000. The ES8000 was my second choice behind the HX950, but I couldn't find the 65ES8000 in stock from any reputable store these past few months. Should be here between 1 and 5 Pacific time if the phone call last night was to be believed, though I find it strange they'd deliver on a Saturday.
Oh and if I'm going to do pictures, you can be sure they won't be cell phone quality. rolleyes.gif

Would you mind to take 9 very specific pictures? Please.
Display a static picture of anything that has most color and dynamic range with whites and blacks, any photo or pause your BRay.
Stand about 3-5 ft from TV and take those pictures at those approximate:
1. right in front, while vertical and horizontal at center - lets call it 0 V and 0 H
2. step a ft to right or left and turn camera to center - 10V, 0H
3. one more step - 20V, 0H
4.one more step - 30V, 0H
5. one more - 40V, 0H
back to center in from of TV position
6. above or below horizontal center point - 0V, 10H
7. one more - 0V, 20H
8. one more - 0V, 30H
9. one more - 0V, 40H

I'm looking for degradation in PQ

I'd like to see those while TV in "cinema" mode with LD is ON
the best would be in complete dark room ;-)

If that will not be too much trouble biggrin.gif

Mike.
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