DONE with DENON. Suggestions needed please... - Page 4

Apple succeeds because of GREAT marketing and a US market that THRIVES on proprietary fad gadgets. Thats IT... the ONLY reason they are even still around. Then they managed to make a computer that was virtually virus free........ but then again, home pc manufacturers WANT their computers to be virus capable......... so they can sell MacAfee and Norton and Kispersky etc etc etc......... which are in themselves viruses and gateways for viruses.

No they where doing it at a lower rate than in the us of a, maybe that tells us something about build quality in the states ?. I guess this and the last reply are on topic since they show examples of people who keep myths alive and troll. As a user the only thing you can do is understand how the people on the internet are and take the bad with the good. The good news is that unlike before you have access to all the information and actual users, designers and insiders to make up your mind.

This forum has been better than most and i hope it will stay that way.

Daniel.

Which "myths" are those that you refer to?

Yeah, I thought they were...Apple production facility FoxConn had a rash of suicides:
http://labornotes.org/blogs/2010/06/suicides-apple-factory-china-rock-sweatshop-supply-system

Kind of feel suck into this but here you go :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn_suicides

The suicide rate at Foxconn during the suicide spate remained lower than that of the general Chinese population,[8] as well as all 50 states in the United States.[9][10] Additionally the Foxconn deaths may have been a product of economic conditions external to the company. In China in 2010 there were several major strike actions at other high-profile manufacturers in China, and the Lewisian turning-point is a macro-economic factor that may provide context for the events.[11]

My point was its probably best to take all with a grain of salt and read multiple sources. also learn who is reporting what for example knowing MCode and reading his posts will/should give him more credits.

Same can be found on the 'just pr' thing, just look up the pr budgets of several companies, quality numbers and user satisfaction numbers. and since most of apple stuff is sold outside of the usa the argument on 'why' also is doubtful. Facts are they produce above avg stuff at a above avg price and are extremely mainstream.

Daniel.

While I don't approve of how other countries treat their people I do have friends that travel and tell me each time a factory opens up they have more than enough people standing in line to apply so having a job with lower working conditions obviously trumps no job something the U.S. is learning you might have to take a pay cut and longer hours but it still beats unemployment.

12 people committing suicide at ONE LOCATION AND AT WORK in half a year is not typical in any nation or facility. Wikipedia is only as viable as those who twist the info they post in it....

I have a better question why would anyone with any sanity contemplate suicide.

You do understand that this one 'place' has 450000 people right ? [1]. The whole point is that typically for a 'town' of 450000 this number would be higher, numbers are weird that way. And i agree with the last poster anyone in their right mind would commit suicide but maybe if you come from a rural area to work for the first time in your life doing a boring job, away from family feeling homesick makes you do things (i guess that other chinese people have even more problems) ?

And yes wikipedia is one source, for lets call them much talked about topics like this its safe to assume probably more true than other sources but feel free to add your own sources (on the topic of the thread).

Getting back to denon and their build quality and MCode's comments. I could claim that i have owned several denon devices and never had a problem so his numbers suck but i know there are factors why the parts i have from denon went better including when (build year), where (it was made), price (maybe $200 is not the same as $8000) and luck (like having a bad chip batch) that come into play. Thats why you do statistics and fact checking to remove your own personal bias.

Sorry all for going of topic, will be my last reply about apple.

POSTEDIT: like i stated i won't reply on it anymore, but if you start a thread in a correct area ill be happy to reply and we can talk about clustering and what makes a city in your eyes. I do notice that you don't directly claim any of the numbers are wrong.

Daniel.


[1] Even when calculated as if all the employee deaths were from the Shenzhen factory complex alone (to simulate a localised area suicide rate), which in 2010 had a workforce of 450,000,[17] the rate is still well below the national average at 3.11 per 100,000 (around 14% the national average).
Edited by danielo - 10/8/12 at 3:47pm

You do realize I could go and edit the page right now, then quote my newly edited info, right? You would then have to say it is true since you say an easily edited site must be true in this topic...

That is my point about wikipedia, it is only as true as the last editing person decides they want it to be. Bias, outright lies, misinformation - it is all there for you to claim as truth if you so wish.


Stop pretending this one facitlity is a city, it is not the same at all. Also 7 of those 12 happened in ONE MONTH (May). Name me one other facitility which had that many people commit suicide AT WORK in one month. Since you claim it is a below average death toll, it should be easy for you to do. There should be at least a dozen companies where this has happened if you are correct.

Hmm...must have accidently closed the page before my reply hit...I answered this, but here goes again:

There are some very rational and sane reasons to contemplate suicide. An easy one is someone who is in stage 4 inoperable cancer. At a certain point the pain is so great you cannot take enough morphine to deaden it or you will be taking a toxic dose. In this case, suicide is a sane and rational option. There are others (such as the suicides at Masada by the rebel Jews who were about to be captured and then slowly tortured to death by the Romans), but the cancer one is good enough.

However, in most cases the person who is going to commit suicide is not currently sane.

Pioneer does not have sub calibration.

Do you have any freaking idea how many people work at this facility, which is INDEED an F'ing self contained CITY? It's like 10 times the number in Harrisburg, PA. The suicide rate there is below that of China as whole, and that is WELL DOCUMENTED. Have you ever lived in communist China? Do you realize people line up outside this place hoping to get hired?

Now back on topic. To the OP - cut your losses, sell your dang Denon and go buy a Yamaha. Or, take your chances with a new Denon. Maybe you got a lemon. I would never put up with taking a receiver in for repairs three times.

There appears to be an unintended economic incentive at Foxconn WRT suicides.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/malcolmmoore/100041277/why-foxconn-cannot-stop-its-suicides/

Then if this is normal, you should easily be able to show several other companies where 7 people all committed suicde at work in one month. Put your money where your mouth is and post these companies. If you cannot, that means this is abnormal.


As a hint to you, committing suicde at work is abnormal...that is why you will fail in your attempt to support your claim that this is a normal happening at any large company.

Moderator

please limit all further discussions to technical issues: this means no further discussions of suicides

political comments are not allowed either...thread ban warning should be noted

First the weights and power ONLY apply to the class A/B receivers. Specifically NOT the Pioneer Class D receivers.
Second members need to realize that corporations can change drastically from one model year to the next.
Take Sony under British-American Howard Stringer. While at the helm Sony TV's regressed in quality. Their $4K front projector optical quality was so bad it couldn't show the pixels.
There was much talk that Sony would exit the display business.
However in the past six months, the traditional quality minded Japanese designers have begun to release high quality products such as the 50ES front projector.

Now lets look at Denon and their 4311 receiver. Here is a comment from an Amazon review:
"I'm a little surprised that it runs so much hotter than my Yamaha"
As a result the weight of the relatively inefficient class A/B receivers going down the internal components begin to bake at a higher temperature.

Lets compare the total A/C power consumption of the comparable new Onkyo 5010 and Denon 4520:
Denon 4520 rated at 780 watts (click to magnify) 9 Channels, 150 W Equal Power all channels 0.05% - no FTC given


Onkyo 5010 rated at (12.4amps*120volts) = 1488 watts 145 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz, 0.05%, 2 channels driven, FTC)


If there were perfect amplifiers then power consumed is calculated as 150 watts * 9 channels = 1350 watts

780/1488 = 52%
Let the reader draw their own conclusion as to corners being cut!
Edited by HiFiFun - 10/9/12 at 12:27pm

I'd have to agree. I've owned 2 different Denon receivers ( I currently use a 4310CI ) and have had zero problems. Sorry to hear others have not had as good luck as I have. It can happen with any brand I imagine.

I would just get the Onkyo 3010 if I was fleeing the Denon world. It has the same Audyssey as the new Denon 4250, including sub eq.

Why not try the Pioneer sc-1222-k. I think it is $599 till the 18th @ Newegg. It looks to have the same D3 amps as the SC Elite line of receivers.