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Stereo Integrity's new HT Subwoofer - Page 40

post #1171 of 2212
Quote:
Originally Posted by zheka View Post

thank you for the link.

Apparently they have also sent some competitor's drivers for the tests. If the results are to be trusted, Dayton's 18" HO Xmax is 16.5 mm which is higher than Dayton's listed specs but is short of 20 mm most of us assumed after the data-bass benchmarks.

http://stereointegrity.com/index.php?id=50

That's funny because it says SI HT18D2 is 22.5mm and they still list 23.5mm in the spec list. Website needs to be updated. What are they doing over there, now that they've sold out of the most popular model? They haven't answered my last e-mail from about a week ago yet.

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #1172 of 2212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

The biggest difference is coming from the two ratings of Qes. One is rather low (Ricci tested .33) and bit higher (SI rated, Kippel tested .41). That will make the huge difference in Qtc. Not just that the production model was "beat up".

It's a pretty big discrepancy so it would be nice to know for sure or not. Or just aim somewhere in between.

Typically, the Qes/Qts of a driver will start low when cold and rise (along with Re) when hot.

Qms is also very different - 5.8 (SI) vs 2.88 (Ricci)
post #1173 of 2212
In case anyone is looking for the EP4K, Walmart (Google found it, I never buy from there) has it for $275 right now: http://www.walmart.com/ip/17656014?adid=22222222227014431015&wmlspartner=wlpa&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=&wl3=13698474550&wl4=&wl5=pla&veh=sem&adid=22222222227014431015&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=&wl3=13698474550&wl4=&wl5=pla&veh=sem

In stock and ready to ship. Hope its ok to post links like this ...

Scott
post #1174 of 2212
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeeter99 View Post

In case anyone is looking for the EP4K, Walmart (Google found it, I never buy from there) has it for $275 right now: http://www.walmart.com/ip/17656014?adid=22222222227014431015&wmlspartner=wlpa&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=&wl3=13698474550&wl4=&wl5=pla&veh=sem&adid=22222222227014431015&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=&wl3=13698474550&wl4=&wl5=pla&veh=sem

In stock and ready to ship. Hope its ok to post links like this ...

Scott

Plus, if your credit card uses thank you rewards, you can put them toward a walmart gift card toward it. Cha ching.
post #1175 of 2212
What's the difference between EP4000 and EPX4000 other than the looks?
Amazon sells EP4K version for $275 too. EPX4K is $399.
post #1176 of 2212
The EPX has a switching type power supply and is lighter. Overall should be identical.
post #1177 of 2212
Quote:
Originally Posted by skeeter99 View Post

In case anyone is looking for the EP4K, Walmart (Google found it, I never buy from there) has it for $275 right now: http://www.walmart.com/ip/17656014?adid=22222222227014431015&wmlspartner=wlpa&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=&wl3=13698474550&wl4=&wl5=pla&veh=sem&adid=22222222227014431015&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=&wl3=13698474550&wl4=&wl5=pla&veh=sem

In stock and ready to ship. Hope its ok to post links like this ...

Scott


Get a used one from Guitar Center for < $200
post #1178 of 2212
Quote:
Originally Posted by smokarz View Post

Get a used one from Guitar Center for < $200

No crap? How do you do that? Online or the brick and mortar stores?
post #1179 of 2212
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtsdig View Post

Nick did confirm in another post that the current specs on the SI site are based on the Klippel results. If I can find the post, I'll staple it here.

Edit: Found the post on the other forum:

Don't forget unit-unit variance.

Big differences in Qes are more likely than not, I expect, traceable to different-strength magnets. That "production" ones would have weaker magnets (higher Qes) than "prototype" ones is fairly predictable. That seems to happen with a lot of buildhouses, alas.

If one really cares about the "alignment" of a closed box (I used to, but have basically been convinced by experience that it's irrelevant unless incredibly off) then there's no substitute for individualized measurement. And for more complicated alignments, obviously one should measure the actual drivers one intends to use.
post #1180 of 2212
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

No crap? How do you do that? Online or the brick and mortar stores?


Online. Search the 'Used Gear' section for EP2500 or EP4000. These used units pop up all the time. I got an EP2500 last year for under $200 shipped. Still working great.

Here's a used EP2500 for $150.

http://www.guitarcenter.com/In-Store-Used-USED-EP2500-108181271-i2724346.gc
post #1181 of 2212
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Whatever happened to Auburnu008? He has started a thread on these, the FiQ group buy, and at least one other that I can remember, always talking about how he is going to build out 16 or so, and then he just disappears!!! Did you finally pull the trigger on these dude?!?!

Haha I am here. Just started my house this month. Looks like I have about 8 more months. I promise I will have 16 of these once I get the house finished. I already have BIGmouthinDC (pro installer from the dedicated theater forum on here) lined up to come help build the theater in 9 months. I guess you could say I am a planner. haha.
post #1182 of 2212
Quote:
Originally Posted by auburnu008 View Post

Haha I am here. Just started my house this month. Looks like I have about 8 more months. I promise I will have 16 of these once I get the house finished. I already have BIGmouthinDC (pro installer from the dedicated theater forum on here) lined up to come help build the theater in 9 months. I guess you could say I am a planner. haha.

Nice! Big is awesome. You are in good hands for sure.

Having to book him 8 months in advance sounds about right... smile.gif
post #1183 of 2212
The response on foam gaskets is much appreciated.

I saw the 18" is safe in a down-firing enclosure and plan to go that route. How far should it be from the floor? Is there something in the T/S that help determine what would be most effective? I've read 3-4 inches but couldn't find any reasons other than not slamming your driver into the ground. The surround still sticks out ~3/4" past my double-baffle, so I'm not sure where to measure distance from the floor from. Hope this makes sense.

Would love to hear your thoughts...
post #1184 of 2212
Have a look at this [expand the FAQ at the bottom].

If you go by this, you're probably quite safe with 5 inches. The effective cone area has a diameter of 15.25 inches if you want to do the math proposed on the site.
Quote:
Originally Posted by a|F View Post


I saw the 18" is safe in a down-firing enclosure and plan to go that route. How far should it be from the floor?
post #1185 of 2212
Quote:
Originally Posted by a|F View Post

How far should it be from the floor? Is there something in the T/S that help determine what would be most effective?..
Yes, but simple programs like WinISD don't reveal it. Trial and error while measuring response is the best method.
post #1186 of 2212
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

Don't forget unit-unit variance.

Big differences in Qes are more likely than not, I expect, traceable to different-strength magnets. That "production" ones would have weaker magnets (higher Qes) than "prototype" ones is fairly predictable. That seems to happen with a lot of buildhouses, alas.

If one really cares about the "alignment" of a closed box (I used to, but have basically been convinced by experience that it's irrelevant unless incredibly off) then there's no substitute for individualized measurement. And for more complicated alignments, obviously one should measure the actual drivers one intends to use.

The differences are not limited to Qes and are too big to be attributed to unit-to-unit variance IMHO.
It is going to be bass-reflex boxes in my case, wrong model can easily result in suboptimal performance and blown drivers . I wish we could get some certainty about the specs before we finalize the plans.
post #1187 of 2212
Quote:
Originally Posted by zheka View Post

The differences are not limited to Qes and are too big to be attributed to unit-to-unit variance IMHO.

I disagree. Cones with varying mass, magnets of varying strength, gap tolerance, etc. are all going to lead to such differences.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zheka View Post

It is going to be bass-reflex boxes in my case, wrong model can easily result in suboptimal performance and blown drivers . I wish we could get some certainty about the specs before we finalize the plans.

The only way to get any kind of "certainty" about driver parameters is to measure the actual devices you plan to use, perhaps a couple different times on different days, and average the measurements.

Also, I would recommend using closed boxes instead. Vented boxes with low tunings are usually problematic-sounding, due to the high level of the vent resonances. If you're planning to use PR's, that's a different (and better) situation.
post #1188 of 2212
Recently I was told by a higher up in a very large, very reputable speaker manufacturer that their acceptable unit to unit tolerance was +/-15%. He then went on to say that there is variation from batch to batch and that most were well within that range. This is straight from one of the most advanced driver mfg's in the world. With these small boutique operations I would expect similar variation or worse. I have had drivers measured on the same day back to back that were quite different.

Additionally you have things like the temperature of the suspension, motor and voice coil which can shift things drastically. The prototype that I had exhibited perhaps the highest compliance suspension I have seen. Fs was around 14Hz and the moving assembly is not that heavy. It was WELL broken in to say the least. All things equal a looser suspension lowers qes/qts
Edited by Ricci - 1/24/13 at 8:59am
post #1189 of 2212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Recently I was told by a higher up in a very large, very reputable speaker manufacturer that their acceptable unit to unit tolerance was +/-15%. He then went on to say that there is variation from batch to batch and that most were well within that range. This is straight from one of the most advanced driver mfg's in the world. With these small boutique operations I would expect similar variation or worse. I have had drivers measured on the same day back to back that were quite different.

Additionally you have things like the temperature of the suspension, motor and voice coil which can shift things drastically. The prototype that I had exhibited perhaps the highest compliance suspension I have seen. Fs was around 14Hz and the moving assembly is not that heavy. It was WELL broken in to say the least. All things equal a looser suspension lowers qes/qts

Thank you for chiming in, Josh.
What parameters were they talking about? The difference between your measurements and the SI specs is over 100% for Qms and over 30% - for total Q.
post #1190 of 2212
Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post

The only way to get any kind of "certainty" about driver parameters is to measure the actual devices you plan to use, perhaps a couple different times on different days, and average the measurements.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Additionally you have things like the temperature of the suspension, motor and voice coil which can shift things drastically. The prototype that I had exhibited perhaps the highest compliance suspension I have seen. Fs was around 14Hz and the moving assembly is not that heavy. It was WELL broken in to say the least. All things equal a looser suspension lowers qes/qts

In these instances would you feel it might be prudent to have WT3 or DATS and build based on those numbers after the suspension has broken in? Thanks.
post #1191 of 2212
Quote:
Originally Posted by djkest View Post

That's funny because it says SI HT18D2 is 22.5mm and they still list 23.5mm in the spec list. Website needs to be updated. What are they doing over there, now that they've sold out of the most popular model? They haven't answered my last e-mail from about a week ago yet.

We have been busy working, shipping out drivers, responding to emails as best we can, etc. And I edited the web page a few minutes ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zheka View Post

The differences are not limited to Qes and are too big to be attributed to unit-to-unit variance IMHO.
It is going to be bass-reflex boxes in my case, wrong model can easily result in suboptimal performance and blown drivers . I wish we could get some certainty about the specs before we finalize the plans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Recently I was told by a higher up in a very large, very reputable speaker manufacturer that their acceptable unit to unit tolerance was +/-15%. He then went on to say that there is variation from batch to batch and that most were well within that range. This is straight from one of the most advanced driver mfg's in the world. With these small boutique operations I would expect similar variation or worse. I have had drivers measured on the same day back to back that were quite different.

Additionally you have things like the temperature of the suspension, motor and voice coil which can shift things drastically. The prototype that I had exhibited perhaps the highest compliance suspension I have seen. Fs was around 14Hz and the moving assembly is not that heavy. It was WELL broken in to say the least. All things equal a looser suspension lowers qes/qts

Josh summed it up quite well. Differences in test equipment used, temperature, humidity, etc, all lead to varying results. T/S measurements are very finicky on their own - if you sneeze in the room while they're being taken the results will be different. Klippel is even worse (but that's a good thing).
post #1192 of 2212
Code:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrodynamic View Post


Josh summed it up quite well. Differences in test equipment used, temperature, humidity, etc, all lead to varying results. T/S measurements are very finicky on their own - if you sneeze in the room while they're being taken the results will be different. Klippel is even worse (but that's a good thing).
Thank you, Nick

Would you say that production units are more likely to be close to your (Klippel?) numbers? Fs 17Hz, Qts 0.38,etc.

Thank youj
post #1193 of 2212
Would two of these sealed in a 4 cu ft box each be enough for a 20x15x10 room thats open to another small 10x10x14 room? I sold my two sealed dayton HFs, so I'm out of sub woofers and need two sealed or ported does not matter.
Edited by deathinc - 1/24/13 at 11:46am
post #1194 of 2212
Quote:
Originally Posted by zheka View Post

What's the difference between EP4000 and EPX4000 other than the looks?
Amazon sells EP4K version for $275 too. EPX4K is $399.

epx also has RCA in's and the lights are cooler.

Quote:
Originally Posted by auburnu008 View Post

Haha I am here. Just started my house this month. Looks like I have about 8 more months. I promise I will have 16 of these once I get the house finished. I already have BIGmouthinDC (pro installer from the dedicated theater forum on here) lined up to come help build the theater in 9 months. I guess you could say I am a planner. haha.

Very Nice!! I have had the chance to meet Shane and buy off some of his overstock smile.gif Super great guy! You will get some awesome design advice for sure!! Glad you are still around!
post #1195 of 2212
For those interested in how these will do in an LLT alignment, in about 6 weeks (hopefully less), we'll know! I just ordered two HT18 D4s which I'll be putting in a couple 650l (~23cu ft) sonotubes tuned to 12Hz. Once my tax return comes in, I'll start buying everything else I need. The drivers I bought now because there were not that many left, and I didn't want to get sniped by somebody else here and have to wait for the next batch of drivers. (in which case I probably would have gone with the XCON18s)

My planning thead: 2 18" LLT Sonotubes: Preliminary Planning
post #1196 of 2212


The high speed is always so cool biggrin.gif
post #1197 of 2212
niiice biggrin.gif

what camera was it shot with?
post #1198 of 2212
High speed stuff was a canon S100 at 240 fps. I'm sure there are some that do it with higher resolution, I know the go pro 3 black edition can do 240 fps at a better resolution.
post #1199 of 2212
Quote:
Originally Posted by zheka View Post

Thank you for chiming in, Josh.
What parameters were they talking about? The difference between your measurements and the SI specs is over 100% for Qms and over 30% - for total Q.

In that specific case it was BL. eek.gif Try changing the BL +/- 15% and see what happens to the rest of the parameters. Again that's totally disregarding the suspension and MMS variations. Turns out that the particular driver that started that conversation apparently had a motor not fully charged because the next one was what I consider to be dead on.

If I run tests on a driver back to back they will be slightly different every time. Now if I do it 2 weeks apart they will be a much larger variation for the same exact driver. All I can say is that is what I measured from the proto driver on that day. I trust the Klippel results for that driver on that day as well. If you absolutely have to know to the nth degree you will have to measure your own drivers and go from there. Sealed enclosures are very forgiving amd it's not worth troubling yourself over. Vented is a little more finicky but it's not like the design will be trashed by some variations even large ones. Not to mention all of those small signal parameters go out the window anyway once real power is applied and excursion gets high.
post #1200 of 2212
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post

High speed stuff was a canon S100 at 240 fps. I'm sure there are some that do it with higher resolution, I know the go pro 3 black edition can do 240 fps at a better resolution.

I never get tired of watching excursion testing.cool.gif
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