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Stereo Integrity's new HT Subwoofer - Page 67

post #1981 of 2212
Thanks for the info. It would only be bad for your receiver if you violated the ohms load specs, no?

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #1982 of 2212
I originally was talking off the amp but then pdx has no amp. If the AVR will work then why not if it’ll give him a idea and not hurt anything. Good call..

^^^OHM> I would think??
post #1983 of 2212
Agreed, keep it at 4 ohms or 8 ohms, and just do short durations and you should be ok.
post #1984 of 2212
Odd question. Why does SI recommend for the 18's a 5-6 ft^3 box tuned to 20 Hz when a 12 ft^3 box tuned to same frequency just looks so much better? Graph below is @ 600W

4 ft^3 sealed (yellow)
6 ft^3 ported, 20 Hz (orange)
12 ft^3 ported, 20 Hz (grey)

I know it gets you another 4 dB over sealed but the 12 ft^3 just looks amazing by comparison; flat and extends well.



Note: I have 4 SI 18's on the way (love those tracking #'s). Just trying figure best how to use them. smile.gif
post #1985 of 2212
because most folks get confused with respect to sub boxes and they would sell fewer drivers if people thought that they *needed* 12 cubic foot enclosures to make the subs *work*.

have you seen the marty sub? about 11 cubic feet net tuned to around 17hz.
post #1986 of 2212
LOVE the marty sub. However, I have a depth problem. I have ~14" of depth for an enclosure (reason why Fusion 10 Max's will be my LCR). Right now looking @ an 7 ft^3 ported design working with handy boards...BUT, an external port (subs are hidden anyways)

Random thought I had was to build 6 ft^3 sealed and then "add a port" for fun. If it doesn't work, pull the port and re-seal.
post #1987 of 2212
cool.
post #1988 of 2212
I like it too. Don't know why we don't see more external ports with all the folks "hiding" their sub boxes anyways. It is an easy fix if you want to seal it up and remove the port... and even easier to just plug it and give the sealed approach a good shot without compromising anything. You could always revert back easily by removing the pillow/port stuffing smile.gifsmile.gif Just some food for thought!!!
post #1989 of 2212
Good news: All four arrived today. Not as heavy as I thought but definitely not "light". Thanks to the SI staff for updating my order and making it hassle free. Amazingly capable crew they have! biggrin.gif

Bad news: Wife thinks they are too big and I have too many. Have to enjoy these by myself. frown.gif

Good news: Stuck in china for 2 weeks starting next week. Plenty of time to work on cabinet designs and concepts. smile.gif

Bad News: Real Chinese food, while awesome, does not sit well in western stomachs frown.gif

Good news: The company is paying for it. smile.gif
post #1990 of 2212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trepidati0n View Post

Good news: All four arrived today. Not as heavy as I thought but definitely not "light". Thanks to the SI staff for updating my order and making it hassle free. Amazingly capable crew they have! biggrin.gif

Bad news: Wife thinks they are too big and I have too many. Have to enjoy these by myself. frown.gif

Good news: Stuck in china for 2 weeks starting next week. Plenty of time to work on cabinet designs and concepts. smile.gif

Bad News: Real Chinese food, while awesome, does not sit well in western stomachs frown.gif

Good news: The company is paying for it. smile.gif

Haha.... good news, bad news.....

good news ... by the time you're two weeks is up your western stomach should be getting used to the chineese food.

Bad news.... you will be leaving and there will be no more authentic chineese food.

Good news... you will be home to your wife and speakers....

Bad news.... your wife does not like all your speakers and you... wait.... that's almost full circle. tongue.gif
post #1991 of 2212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trepidati0n View Post

Odd question. Why does SI recommend for the 18's a 5-6 ft^3 box tuned to 20 Hz when a 12 ft^3 box tuned to same frequency just looks so much better? Graph below is @ 600W

4 ft^3 sealed (yellow)
6 ft^3 ported, 20 Hz (orange)
12 ft^3 ported, 20 Hz (grey)

I know it gets you another 4 dB over sealed but the 12 ft^3 just looks amazing by comparison; flat and extends well.



Note: I have 4 SI 18's on the way (love those tracking #'s). Just trying figure best how to use them. smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

because most folks get confused with respect to sub boxes and they would sell fewer drivers if people thought that they *needed* 12 cubic foot enclosures to make the subs *work*.

have you seen the marty sub? about 11 cubic feet net tuned to around 17hz.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. There is no escaping Hoffman's Iron Law. With a larger enclosure comes sacrifices in power handling. In an HT application very low frequencies are quite typical and protecting the woofer in the long run while still offering a solid bandwidth was of utmost importance, hence our recommendations. We don't recommend enclosure alignments based on how the driver will play the lowest with zero regard to enclosure size (try tuning a 300ft^3 enclosure to 8 Hz for our 24" IB sub). Even then you're only looking at a computer simulation of how the woofer system will respond in an anechoic chamber, not in a room. You can tailor your frequency response however you want it as you pointed out. It is also up to you to watch out for the sacrifices of enlarging the enclosure volume by 300%. cool.gif
post #1992 of 2212
SO I am real amateur at this. My home theater is 26x13 and I was thinking about 6 of the 18s and a 12k watt inuke to run them. It's that enough power? I'll just make some sealed enclosures. How many cuft for each? I just want solid clean sound with a simple set up. Any help is greatly appreciated.
post #1993 of 2212
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanhenson View Post

SO I am real amateur at this. My home theater is 26x13 and I was thinking about 6 of the 18s and a 12k watt inuke to run them. It's that enough power? I'll just make some sealed enclosures. How many cuft for each? I just want solid clean sound with a simple set up. Any help is greatly appreciated.

New to home audio myself, but if the 12000 inuke is configured to put out 12k watts thats double the ~1000 watts thats often mentioned around here for a 4^3 sealed enclosure.

Not that its going to hurt anything. But it sounds like more than you need. How much is the inuke?

I didnt research it in my search for an amp. I too am doing 6 18s off a peavy ipr2 7500. Should have ~ 1k watts per driver at 2 ohm stereo.

Thats my hopefully helpful 2 cents. wink.gif
post #1994 of 2212
There is no way to run six subs at 2 ohm on a inuke 12000 watt amp. The amp can't handle two ohm stereo, and the drivers can't be wired that way either in a total of six. You can get close to two ohm with three dual 4 ohm voice coil subwoofers wired to eight ohm each, but again the inuke 6000 or 12000 won't power that load in stereo. You guys need to find a subwoofer wiring diagram and read up. A dual coil subwoofers load is pretty flexible but you can't just wire six for any ohm rating you want, and not all amps support 2 ohm stereo or 4 ohm bridged.
Edited by Archaea - 10/5/13 at 6:03am
post #1995 of 2212
Just a quick question!


Can I check what the distance is between the top of the rubber cone surround and the centre of the domed centre cap?

(I have previously found the diagrams for the drivers but I can't find them again... lol Either way, I don't think they have the distance above on them!)


Many thanks in advance! smile.gif
post #1996 of 2212
"You can't have your cake and eat it too. There is no escaping Hoffman's Iron Law. With a larger enclosure comes sacrifices in power handling."

myth!

well, what I mean is that 1100 watts pushes the driver to about xmax in the 11 cubic footer tuned to 17hz.

that is probably a reasonable balance between max excursion and max power.
post #1997 of 2212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

There is no way to run six subs at 2 ohm on a inuke 12000 watt amp. The amp can't handle two ohm stereo, and the drivers can't be wired that way either in a total of six. You can get close to two ohm with three dual 4 ohm voice coil subwoofers wired to eight ohm each, but again the inuke 6000 or 12000 won't power that load in stereo. You guys need to find a subwoofer wiring diagram and read up. A dual coil subwoofers load is pretty flexible but you can't just wire six for any ohm rating you want, and not all amps support 2 ohm stereo or 4 ohm bridged.

Three d4 drivers hooked up will net a ~2ohm nominal load but you're right the 12000 is not 2ohm compatible.
post #1998 of 2212
"Three d4 drivers hooked up will net a ~2ohm nominal load but you're right the 12000 is not 2ohm compatible."

double check that?

http://www.behringer.com/assets/NU1000_NU3000_NU6000_NU12000_NU1000DSP_NU3000DSP_NU6000DSP_NU12000DSP_WebBrochure.pdf
post #1999 of 2212
not sure what you guys are talking about, but if using dual 4 ohms drivers wired in series per driver that is 8 ohms.

3 in parallel per side is 2.66 ohms, which is fine for the inuke 12000 and would produce 4511 spec watts or about 3200 real watts per side, which would be about 1066 per driver. that seems pretty good to me.
post #2000 of 2212
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

not sure what you guys are talking about, but if using dual 4 ohms drivers wired in series per driver that is 8 ohms.

3 in parallel per side is 2.66 ohms, which is fine for the inuke 12000 and would produce 4511 spec watts or about 3200 real watts per side, which would be about 1066 per driver. that seems pretty good to me.

I've seen these amps on 2 ohms go both ways on comments. It could be that the amp is "on the margin" for 2 ohms. While at light and medium loads on 2 ohms it is fine, maybe when a big whack comes the amp did not perform as admirably as desired.
post #2001 of 2212
it's not really "on the comments", but more in the design of the amps. some of the models are 2 ohm stable and can be bridged, while other are not/cannot.
post #2002 of 2212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

There is no way to run six subs at 2 ohm on a inuke 12000 watt amp. The amp can't handle two ohm stereo, and the drivers can't be wired that way either in a total of six. You can get close to two ohm with three dual 4 ohm voice coil subwoofers wired to eight ohm each, but again the inuke 6000 or 12000 won't power that load in stereo. You guys need to find a subwoofer wiring diagram and read up. A dual coil subwoofers load is pretty flexible but you can't just wire six for any ohm rating you want, and not all amps support 2 ohm stereo or 4 ohm bridged.

Wiring diagram for those (like me) who need it to fall back on. smile.gif

http://www.jlaudio.com/header/Support/Tutorials/Wiring+Dual+Voice+Coil+%28DVC%29+Subwoofer+Drivers/Tutorial%3A+Wiring+Dual+Voice+Coil+%28DVC%29+Subwoofer+Drivers/287544

Peavy IPR2 FTW
post #2003 of 2212
post #2004 of 2212
Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

This = Better: http://www.the12volt.com/caraudio/woofer_configurations.asp

LOL.... ummmm.... depends. I like pictures... smile.gif
post #2005 of 2212
It will do pictures for you smile.gif just plug in your woofer and impedance configuration and the pics will follow
post #2006 of 2212
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"You can't have your cake and eat it too. There is no escaping Hoffman's Iron Law. With a larger enclosure comes sacrifices in power handling."

myth!

well, what I mean is that 1100 watts pushes the driver to about xmax in the 11 cubic footer tuned to 17hz.

that is probably a reasonable balance between max excursion and max power.

Not myth. Fact. Put the driver in what we recommend and see how much power you can run on it before it reaches Xmax limits. Power handling is not only by Xmax limits. You can thermal a coil without it getting anywhere near Xmax limits with enough power. Again, for what our customers do to our subwoofers we have our recommended enclosures. And again, you can do whatever you want to. Our warranty extends to rated power and covers manufacturers defects, not abuse and/or large enclosures. I know many people (some are friends of mine) who run MUCH larger enclosures than what we recommend with very good results. They also know that if they cook the woofer it is their fault and not under warranty. cool.gif
post #2007 of 2212
If your woofer was 600-800 bucks a pop then I would worry about putting it in a large enclosure more. At just over 200 smackers I will take the risk
post #2008 of 2212
"Not myth. Fact. Put the driver in what we recommend and see how much power you can run on it before it reaches Xmax limits. Power handling is not only by Xmax limits. You can thermal a coil without it getting anywhere near Xmax limits with enough power. Again, for what our customers do to our subwoofers we have our recommended enclosures. And again, you can do whatever you want to. Our warranty extends to rated power and covers manufacturers defects, not abuse and/or large enclosures. I know many people (some are friends of mine) who run MUCH larger enclosures than what we recommend with very good results. They also know that if they cook the woofer it is their fault and not under warranty."

since you have now said it a couple different ways, i will assume that it is your position that one is more likely to burn up a voice coil in a large enclosure than in a small one.

how is that possible when the large enclosure requires less power for any given spl and a large enclosure allows for greater cone motion which provides greater cooling for any amount of input power?

the ultimate expression of a large enclosure is an infinite baffle. people don't cook coils in those they damage them from over excursion.

people cook coils in small enclosures with a crap ton of power trying to get loud.
post #2009 of 2212
LTD is on... There is a pretty good read over at http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/diy-subwoofers-general-discussion/1820-llt-explained.html regarding the LLT design buy a guy who used to spend a lot of time over here. Anyway I have had a good experience with them, but I admittedly had one that didn’t work out though.
Edited by steve nn - 10/7/13 at 2:52am
post #2010 of 2212
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"You can't have your cake and eat it too. There is no escaping Hoffman's Iron Law. With a larger enclosure comes sacrifices in power handling."

myth!

well, what I mean is that 1100 watts pushes the driver to about xmax in the 11 cubic footer tuned to 17hz.

that is probably a reasonable balance between max excursion and max power.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"Not myth. Fact. Put the driver in what we recommend and see how much power you can run on it before it reaches Xmax limits. Power handling is not only by Xmax limits. You can thermal a coil without it getting anywhere near Xmax limits with enough power. Again, for what our customers do to our subwoofers we have our recommended enclosures. And again, you can do whatever you want to. Our warranty extends to rated power and covers manufacturers defects, not abuse and/or large enclosures. I know many people (some are friends of mine) who run MUCH larger enclosures than what we recommend with very good results. They also know that if they cook the woofer it is their fault and not under warranty."

since you have now said it a couple different ways, i will assume that it is your position that one is more likely to burn up a voice coil in a large enclosure than in a small one.

how is that possible when the large enclosure requires less power for any given spl and a large enclosure allows for greater cone motion which provides greater cooling for any amount of input power?

the ultimate expression of a large enclosure is an infinite baffle. people don't cook coils in those they damage them from over excursion.

people cook coils in small enclosures with a crap ton of power trying to get loud.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve nn View Post

LTD is on... There is a pretty good read over at http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/diy-subwoofers-general-discussion/1820-llt-explained.html regarding the LLT design buy a guy who used to spend a lot of time over here. Anyway I have had a good experience with them, but I admittedly had one that didn’t work out though.

I think everyone is on the same page here. I don't think Nick was saying you will essentially burn up VC's in larger boxes, but rather you will burn up VC's by overpowering them. Keep in mind Nick is used to the Carstereo crowd where many guys will dump 10,000 watts on a driver without any regard for its actual suggested power use. You bump up to 11cuft, or IB the 18's, then you aren't going to need 1,000 watts per driver to get the most out of the driver anymore. IB my guess is you can get full usage of the driver, with protection in regards to xmax with only 300 watts per. As he said, other guys have done large enclosures with good results, you just have to take the powering of those enclosures into consideration, from the xmax, AND thermal standpoint.
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