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Plasma Break-In Philosphy.

post #1 of 35
Thread Starter 
I've been a member here for quite a few years and have read thousands of posts during that time. Even though I've never owned a plasma, or LCD for that matter, I am now considering a Panasonic 65" 50 series (ST or GT). I'll be selling my Sony 60A3000 in November. After reading years of break-in suggestions and especially after seeing two threads here concerned with IR on the 2012 Panasonic panels I wonder why the obvious (to me) break-in method is not mentioned. Why not set your new plasma to a pure white screen, turn brightness and contrast to 100% and let it run for 100-150 hours? Would that not age all the phosphers equally and as completely as possible? It seems like this method would help eliminate the chances of IR. Would this perhaps damage the display in some way?
post #2 of 35
Because it is not necessary.
post #3 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by adone36 View Post

Because it is not necessary.

I tend to agree, break-in outside of varying content does not mitigate IR imo,
post #4 of 35
The point of break in is for the panel to age evenly

Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk 2
post #5 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by yaomizzle View Post

The point of break in is for the panel to age evenly
Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk 2

That would be accomplished with the all white screen the OP suggested.

I would be concerned about running 100% all white, as that would be pushing the panel to the fullest. This may not apply to plasma panels, but for most devices, you want to go easy and build up.

Michael
post #6 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by yaomizzle View Post

The point of break in is for the panel to age evenly
Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk 2

Aging evenly for calibration and preventing IR are two different things imo
post #7 of 35
I just bought my 1st plasma and like you (OP) I read through tons of stuff on here and other sites about IR and calibration... Here's what I did knowing that I wasn’t going to pay for a professional calibration nor did I want to wait 100-200 hours running break-in slides to watch my new TV – that I bought to replace a broken one.

No one is home during the day so we only watched TV at night and on weekends. I kept 16:9 source at all times for the 1st few weeks and ran the break-in slides every night for the 1st week. I got lazy and didn't run the slides after that. Now I watch movies and light gaming with HUDs, and have noticed no IR so far.

I think you’ll be fine if you do everything in moderation like I did for the first 100-200 hours. It just depends on what your main goal is and how long you want to wait.
post #8 of 35
Thread Starter 
As seen from just these few responses, break-in is a very unscientific procedure. Some say no break-in is necessary. Some say break-in for 100 hours with varied content. I'm not sure if running at 100% brightness and contrast would stress the display. It seems that a full screen white screen would at least break in each individual phospher equally. Wouldn't that be the best way to insure that IR would be minimized? Most logos used by the different stations are basically a white on black situation with the white part becoming the IR. It's been mentioned here for years that displays with more hours on them are less likely to have IR. There are two individual threads running here right now concerning IR/Burn-in and several owners are long time plasma owners and went to great lengths to do a proper break-in and yet are still experiencing problems. One (expert) says the best way to get rid of even stubborn IR is to run a white screen for however many hours it takes to get rid of the IR. Seems logical to run a similar white screen on a new panel to protect from IR.
post #9 of 35
to be honest, early days of plasma required, yes, required breakin to avoid
Burn in.
Early days supported this idea with charts and graphs about the life of the plasma cell.
Then came the inevitable PR to state that those days were over. Seems it is to hard to sell something that consumers need to use their brains about.

Yes, new cells are subject to spatter and permanent damage from overly high
voltages running them.

While the chemicals that make up the phosphors that glow have improved, they still
have the same tech driving them.

I support proper aging of plasma panels to get a more uniformed tube.

Now, the guys that will say "prove it", have an opening.

I also like the colored slides. Some just content.

Neither one has an exact hour of use that guaranties no IR or burn in.

Slides to me age the panel the fastest and with complete uniformly.
Content is anything but even across the panel.

It is your panel and you need to decide.

Be aware that there is no magic number of hours to having an IR resistant panel.
I would imagine that slides will get it there faster than just content.

Also, slides are good to run before getting a calibration.
1 reason, the meter is guarantied to hit a group of pixels that are representative of the whole panel.
2 there are measurable shifts in one or more of the RGB pixels during the first 100 or so
hours.
Number 2 is what adds to my opinion that slides and the need to break in a plasma
is the better course of action.
post #10 of 35
For all the naysayers, here is some recent proof that IR/burn/uneven phosphor wear is still possible. I didn't use slides but had good mix of content for 4 months... and what looks like too much 4:3 content.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vivatech View Post




post #11 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

I'm not sure if running at 100% brightness and contrast would stress the display. It seems that a full screen white screen would at least break in each individual phospher equally. Wouldn't that be the best way to insure that IR would be minimized?
Using the D-Nice recommended "slides" (consist of red, green, blue and shades of white in a 1920 x 1020 format) will break in each pixel as uniformly as possible. A "white" screen will not do the same. BTW, the settings are NOT 100% for contrast and brightness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

Most logos used by the different stations are basically a white on black situation with the white part becoming the IR. It's been mentioned here for years that displays with more hours on them are less likely to have IR. There are two individual threads running here right now concerning IR/Burn-in and several owners are long time plasma owners and went to great lengths to do a proper break-in and yet are still experiencing problems.
Using the slides still doesn't guarantee that you might not get IR or BI. If you run the "Vivid" mode, for example, you will MOST LIKELY, get one or both!
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

One (expert) says the best way to get rid of even stubborn IR is to run a white screen for however many hours it takes to get rid of the IR. Seems logical to run a similar white screen on a new panel to protect from IR.
If Panny includes a "scrolling white bar" to remove IR, then it MUST do something wouldn't you say?

However, your SETTINGS . . . . I say again, your SETTINGS are the main cause of IR and/or BI . . . . even if you age the pixels. High level of CONTRAST, 90 and above, will almost guarantee some IR and maybe BI.
post #12 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by vivatech View Post

For all the naysayers, here is some recent proof that IR/burn/uneven phosphor wear is still possible. I didn't use slides but had good mix of content for 4 months... and what looks like too much 4:3 content.
Great pics . . . my 10+ year old Pio had similar ends . . . except much worse. Watching a hockey game showed both endsof the screen as a blue-green tint to a white screen. But 10+yrs is a lot of viewing time. It was noticeable a long time before the 10yr mark.

As you said . . . from watching 4:3 content with "black" borders! If you HAVE to watch a 4:3, make sure that you have the remote handy and punch the "ASPECT" button quickly!
Edited by JForge - 10/4/12 at 11:58pm
post #13 of 35
Is it true that you should keep the contrast lowered for the first 100-200 hrs? Something like THX Cinema default setting?
post #14 of 35
After I noticed the discoloration, I just set my FiOS STB to stretch all 4:3 content; HD content is still displayed as 16:9 with those settings. Manually setting the aspect ratio each time was unrealistic to ask my family to do. Since input from STB is 1080 regardless of content, I was unable to change the black bars to gray bars on the TV. FiOS has no such settings I could find.

On my Panasonic TC-P60GT50 I used THX Cinema for all Blu-Ray content, which was 25% of usage. THX Bright Room was used for TV, which was mostly daytime viewing, and well, it's a plasma in a bright room. 25% of usage HD TV; the last 50% was realistically 4:3 due to kid's programming.

I normally watched content with darker screens, so it wasn't noticeable until recently. Also, you really don't notice it unless the background is a solid color. If there are patterns or movement, it's tough to point out. And of course in a bright room the issues are less noticeable than a dark room.
post #15 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JForge View Post

Using the D-Nice recommended "slides" (consist of red, green, blue and shades of white in a 1920 x 1020 format) will break in each pixel as uniformly as possible. A "white" screen will not do the same. BTW, the settings are NOT 100% for contrast and brightness.
Using the slides still doesn't guarantee that you might not get IR or BI. If you run the "Vivid" mode, for example, you will MOST LIKELY, get one or both!

If Panny includes a "scrolling white bar" to remove IR, then it MUST do something wouldn't you say?
However, your SETTINGS . . . . I say again, your SETTINGS are the main cause of IR and/or BI . . . . even if you age the pixels. High level of CONTRAST, 90 and above, will almost guarantee some IR and maybe BI.

It is my understanding that D-Nice's slides have nothing to do with reducing the chances of IR. They are simply a way to get the best PQ if you are using his settings. You say a White screen will not do that same but offer no explanation to back up that statement. Why would not a total white screen with a brightness and contrast setting of 100% allow for equal break-in across the board?
Of course your settings will have a bearing on your chances of IR/BI. I'm just talking about break-in philosophy. I'm asking, why not sit your new plasma TV in the corner, set up a totally white screen, set the brightness and contrast to 100%, run it 24/7 for a week? Then back off the settings to a more reasonable level in say the Custom mode. Is there a better way to reduce the chances of IR/BI?
post #16 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

It is my understanding that D-Nice's slides have nothing to do with reducing the chances of IR. They are simply a way to get the best PQ if you are using his settings. You say a White screen will not do that same but offer no explanation to back up that statement. Why would not a total white screen with a brightness and contrast setting of 100% allow for equal break-in across the board?
Of course your settings will have a bearing on your chances of IR/BI. I'm just talking about break-in philosophy. I'm asking, why not sit your new plasma TV in the corner, set up a totally white screen, set the brightness and contrast to 100%, run it 24/7 for a week? Then back off the settings to a more reasonable level in say the Custom mode. Is there a better way to reduce the chances of IR/BI?
white will cause abl to limit the energy to the cells.
primary colors will allow a brighter/higher energy to the cells.
post #17 of 35
Thread Starter 
Plasma displays use dynamic brightness control. So a full white screen or scrolling bar should not aggressively age your display.
post #18 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalWldLif View Post

white will cause abl to limit the energy to the cells.
primary colors will allow a brighter/higher energy to the cells.

I don't disagree with your statement, but would not the presence of these primary colors, because they are randomly dispersed across the screen, by definition result in uneven pixel aging? My contention is that even though a white screen will result in less energy to the cells, at least it will be evenly distributed for aging purposes.
post #19 of 35
"randomly dispersed across the screen", not sure what you mean by that?
post #20 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

I don't disagree with your statement, but would not the presence of these primary colors, because they are randomly dispersed across the screen, by definition result in uneven pixel aging? My contention is that even though a white screen will result in less energy to the cells, at least it will be evenly distributed for aging purposes.
no
white is all three pixels on. R G B.
Key word, ALL on.
When red slide is used 1/3 of pixels are on but those 1/3 are ALL the red ones.
Then ALL the Green ones and All the Blue.
post #21 of 35
After my initial 100 hour break-in using the D-Nice slides, I decided to continue the process, because I kept reading that you really needed at least 200 hours, or 300, or 500, or 2000... Besides, I still got IR. The logo and score box from one baseball game was taking days to wipe away, and it WAS visible on other content.

So I made a slide set consisting of full brightness red, green, blue and white slides, and decided to run them at 100% brightness, just as the OP suggests, mainly to get rid of the IR. (I also raised the panel brightness from mid to high.) After a couple of cycles (less than an hour) I viewed the white slide and saw bright, white plumes spreading upward from the bottom of the screen as if it was being bleached. I stopped the process and ran the scrolling bar for hours. It removed most of it, but I still notice a lighter vertical band that remains. I've run the original D-Nice slide set, and my modified set, and a set of only white slides, all at 50% brightness, (panel brightness back at mid), in addition to the pixel flipper from the Disney WoW disc, and the scrolling bar. I can't seem to get rid of this residual bar. (Suggestions welcome.) The panel has over 200 hours on it, and I still get IR that takes days to remove. So I would advise against the OP's plan.
Edited by larrygeary - 9/26/12 at 4:33pm
post #22 of 35
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalWldLif View Post

no
white is all three pixels on. R G B.
Key word, ALL on.
When red slide is used 1/3 of pixels are on but those 1/3 are ALL the red ones.
Then ALL the Green ones and All the Blue.

Gotcha. I think. How would you set the display up so that all of the cells are aged equally? By randomly dispersed across the screen I meant that R G B will not be 100% evenly dispersed across the screen unless you can send all three colors everywhere at the same time. At least not if you are displaying a broadcast signal like a TV show. While with white you will be aging each cell equally. My only goal here is to reduce the chances of IR.
post #23 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

Gotcha. I think. How would you set the display up so that all of the cells are aged equally? By randomly dispersed across the screen I meant that R G B will not be 100% evenly dispersed across the screen unless you can send all three colors everywhere at the same time. At least not if you are displaying a broadcast signal like a TV show. While with white you will be aging each cell equally. My only goal here is to reduce the chances of IR.
White can and will be limited by ABL.
So none of the RGB pixels are being taxed, stressed, aged, push to there limits.
The slides have equal amount of Red, Green , and Blue for a reason.
New plasma cells lose intensity more than at any other time in their life.
Testing and charts show this in the 100-200hrs. This loss of intensity is why
there is a color shift of the panels white point. From this point on the loss is more gradual and
at say 1000hrs they stay pretty stable.
then the 100,000 hrs to half life comes in.
Blue loses the fastest
Red next
Finally green.
Just the nature of the chemicals.
Please realize that aging for consistency and preventing IR are not necessarily the same thing.
It is possible to get it at 1000hrs, the only difference is at 1000hrs the IR will fade faster than if they were new cell IR.
quit worrying.
post #24 of 35
The service menu has both a full brightness white screen (same brightness as the white part of the scrolling bar) and a scrolling bar that does not time out. Here's what you do:

1. Press Volume DOWN on the TV while pressing Info on the remote 3 times within 2-3 seconds. The set will enter Service Mode.
2. The 2 and 3 buttons navigate the main menu. Press the 2 button until the screen turns full white. (I think it's two presses.)
3. The 3 and 4 buttons select sub-menus. Once on the white screen, you can press 3 several times to cycle through various screens until you reach the scrolling bar. Pressing 4 once may get you there directly.
4. When finished, turn off the set using the power button on the TV.

DO NOT touch any other buttons on the remote, because you can accidentally change a value in service mode, and there is no "reset to defaults" option if you didn't notice what the value was before you changed it. (Dumb design decision IMO.)

I have the full white screen on now to see if it will eliminate that lighter bar I mentioned above. I don't know if the white screen or the scrolling bar would be better, but I'll let the white screen run until the weekend.
post #25 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

I don't disagree with your statement, but would not the presence of these primary colors, because they are randomly dispersed across the screen, by definition result in uneven pixel aging?
Quote:
What "randomly dispersed"???? The D-Nice color slides exercise EVERY pixel with primary colors so each pixel is stressed as much as possible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

My contention is that even though a white screen will result in less energy to the cells, at least it will be evenly distributed for aging purposes.

Now you state CORRECTLY, that white screen DOES result in less energy to each pixel. That's why D-Nice slides are better for AGING.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

It is my understanding that D-Nice's slides have nothing to do with reducing the chances of IR. They are simply a way to get the best PQ if you are using his settings.

That's correct . . . it's the BEST way to age the pixels and get uniform color and tints. Period.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

You say a White screen will not do that same but offer no explanation to back up that statement. Why would not a total white screen with a brightness and contrast setting of 100% allow for equal break-in across the board?
Quote:
You now know the answer . . . since you've read CalWldLif posts.

White screen is 'easy' but not as effective for aging.
post #26 of 35
Is it OK to leave the TV on at night on something like HDNet that is 16:9 with no logo. Just trying to quickly age a new panel before watching any 2.4:1 or 4:3. Also, should I use a lower brightness THX Cinema or higher Bright room?
post #27 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by adone36 View Post

Because it is not necessary.

I never "broke in" my 2006 58" Panasonic Plasma and I am STILL fanatically happy with my 720p Panasonic (actually 768p!!!)

Very happy with the colors, and never had it professionally calibrated. Great TV.

I have it on 2-4 hours on the weekdays, and 4-10 hours on my days off.

Just my two cents
post #28 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnc View Post

Is it true that you should keep the contrast lowered for the first 100-200 hrs? Something like THX Cinema default setting?

I always found that by keeping the contrast low during my TC-P65VT50 break in period that it seems to help the IR from not being a factor. I agree with others as well, I got my first 37 inch Panny Plasma in 2005 and never did the break in period and the TV rocks. However, I feel the larger the screen the more careful you need to be in terms of the break in period.
post #29 of 35
I believe this is why I sold my first plasma.

There is no specific rule, as every display is different. Do this, don't do that, it should just be a TV that you buy and bring home. So much work to avoid such a distracting and possibly permanent issue.

Said, I just jumped back onto the bandwagon with a 65GT50, thinking about returning it before I even get it.

I guess since I already have a TV, I can just connect this one on the side and run it for a few weeks with the slides. Although, that is a huge pain to both my time and patience ... not to mention it doesn't guarantee a damn thing.
post #30 of 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrophoric View Post

I believe this is why I sold my first plasma.
There is no specific rule, as every display is different. Do this, don't do that, it should just be a TV that you buy and bring home. So much work to avoid such a distracting and possibly permanent issue.
Said, I just jumped back onto the bandwagon with a 65GT50, thinking about returning it before I even get it.
I guess since I already have a TV, I can just connect this one on the side and run it for a few weeks with the slides. Although, that is a huge pain to both my time and patience ... not to mention it doesn't guarantee a damn thing.

Keep the new 65 GT50, its an awesome set. I just got one last week - my very first plasma. Prior to pulling the trigger I looked up multiple threads on IR and break in. Everybody has an opinion. The OP here Andy seems self convinced about the all white break in despite a few different people disagreeing; he should just go ahead with what he believes. I've only had my new GT50 on for <1hour, performing initial setup, OTA channel program, and playing around with the menu features. Just before I left Panasonic Canada with my TV I asked our colleague who got us the set if he recommended a "break in"... he said just avoid any non 16:9 format and/or adjust any images to full 16:9. After I tweak the picture settings I'm just going to enjoy the damn thing and watch it in low light. I think somebody said it best here that IR has more to do with what you watch vs. how you break in your set. I bought this plasma for a basement theater room. I'm not too worried.
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